New rule enforcement on points

[Beca]

Here is someone desparate for 4 points to complete a reservation....sad

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1202056

Don't worry about it, Bill!! I have no doubt that one of those members who has owned for 10 years and NEVER had to use a transfer will be happy to transfer 4 points to this person (without compensation, of course!!). Of course, the rest of us have to hang on to our "ONE" transfer like it is gold!!!

 

[Mike]

Well, I have never "abused" the situation...if "abusing" means transferring to rent.

But, here is how I ended up needing more points. I thought my trips were planned for the year. So, I "banked" my remaining points. Then, I got an invitation to visit WDW with some friends I hadn't seen in many years. I had already planned all my points for the next year...had even included my "banked" points in the total (I was taking students to WDW for their senior year, as a gift). So, in order to take this additional trip, I transferred in points. Then, my dh had a conflict come up. He could only get to stay one night at WDW...hardly worth going at all for him. So, we decided that, in order for him to come to WDW, we would make our trip longer...we would show up early with DH and "do" WDW. Then, our friends would come and dh could see them for two days, then he would go home and dd and I would play with our friends. That way, we all got a WDW trip. So...I had to transfer in some more points.

Now, some would say we should've "added-on". Well, first...we had 540 points, secondly...we couldn't afford it, and thirdly...the year before we had too many points and actually transferred out.

Maybe, I have just "mis-managed" my points. Or maybe, the "flexibility" is what made DVC perfect for me. However, I was totally using DVC for my family's enjoyment....and, still found myself needing two transfers in one year.

I will miss that "saftey net" of flexibility. Also, I honestly don't feel that DVC did it to stop commercial renters. I don't think DVC cares who they "stop"...they just want more room left in the "system" at the 7 month window. Whether they limit flexibility for people who are renting, or for people who use their points themselves doesn't matter to them...as long as rooms are available at all resorts at the 7-month window....DVC is happy!!! They can, in good conscience tell prospective members....sure, you can stay ANYWHERE with these points. I'd certainly be looking for more restrictions in the future.

Wow ... somebody is actually looking at the reality of the situation without blinders on. Here we have a real world situation. I am sure there are hundreds more that don't fit into the narrow view of certain posters.

Perhaps I should beat them to the punch..... Well Beca, it is obvious that you couldn't "afford" to go on that additonal extended trip. Sometimes you have to live within your means. I have owned for many years and I have never had to transfer. I just don't see what the big deal is


Well from one "abuser" to another .... good post Beca

 

[Mike]

Oh ... and of course ... you should have managed your points better

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Well, I have never "abused" the situation...if "abusing" means transferring to rent.

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So, in order to take this additional trip, I transferred in points.
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So...I had to transfer in some more points.

Beca, although you didn't abuse the system by renting out your points, it sounds as though the folks renting to you did.

Again, perhaps I'm missing something?

MG

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Again, perhaps I'm missing something?

I am the OP and my #1 complaint about this is that it is restricitve and non-flexible. I have been a member for 6 years and never complained...ever....except about this rule enforcemement.

I know that abuses are occuring...but stop those individuals, not the casual owner. The funny thing is that I have only transferred points out twice in 6 years. But this enforcement is making me consider selling one of my 250 point contracts as I NEVER use all 500 points per year.

I prefer transferring my extra points to an existing DVC owner for $10 pp, rather than renting to a stranger for $11-$12pp. Now that I can only do it once....I have to plan very carefully, where in the past.....no problem with a 4 point transfer because there is no restriction.

 

[Dean]

Why would this hurt the average DVC Member? I doubt the average DVC Member comes to Disboards to get 3 points transfered to complete a ressie.

Even if they do, why would they need to do that more than once per year?

I know I'm late to the conversation, but what am I missing here?

MG

IMO, you are missing a lot. This has far more potential effects than just doing multiple transfers and in several areas. I won't go into detail again as I've been accused of being repetitive.

• It will remove flexibility for many of those owners who would do transfers or rentals on an occasional basis.
• It will likely devalue an cash equivilent exchange options (DCL, etc).
• It will likely devalue certain resales to a degree.
• It will push those heavy hitters to reserve prime time for rental far more than is the case now.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

IMO, you are missing a lot. This has far more potential effects than just doing multiple transfers and in several areas. I won't go into detail again as I've been accused of being repetitive.

• It will remove flexibility for many of those owners who would do transfers or rentals on an occasional basis.
• It will likely devalue an cash equivilent exchange options (DCL, etc).
• It will likely devalue certain resales to a degree.
• It will push those heavy hitters to reserve prime time for rental far more than is the case now.

I just don't see it.
Occasional renters will still be able to transfer once per year. Any more than that is not a casual renter IMO.

Why will it devalue resales? I can see where it would only to those who plan on renting often, aka abusing the system.

It sounds as though those "heavy hitters" may be the target. I thought I read that DVC is clamping down this type of renting.

MG

 

[Mike]

I just don't see it.
Occasional renters will still be able to transfer once per year. Any more than that is not a casual renter IMO.

Why will it devalue resales? I can see where it would only to those who plan on renting often, aka abusing the system.

It sounds as though those "heavy hitters" may be the target. I thought I read that DVC is clamping down this type of renting.

MG

What about Beca's example?

What about the member who wants to plan a family reunion and needs 320 points transferred in to his account. He is no longer able to transfer 100 points from one member, 150 from another and then 70 from a third. Now he must find one member who 1) is willing to transfer exactly 320 points, 2) who has a history on the boards and can provide references, 3) who is asking a reasonable price, and 4) who has not already used up his one transfer for the year. This "matchmaking", which is now required, is not going to be easy.

I don't want to rent reservations from several members. I want to be able to control the points in my account.

There is no doubt members are losing a lot of flexibility.

 

[Deb & Bill]

What about Beca's example?

What about the member who wants to plan a family reunion and needs 320 points transferred in to his account. He is no longer able to transfer 100 points from one member, 150 from another and then 70 from a third. Now he must find one member who 1) is willing to transfer exactly 320 points, 2) who has a history on the boards and can provide references, 3) who is asking a reasonable price, and 4) who has not already used up his one transfer for the year. This "matchmaking", which is now required, is not going to be easy.

I don't want to rent reservations from several members. I want to be able to control the points in my account.

There is no doubt members are losing a lot of flexibility.

I'd say any member getting transfers like these with no compensation are doing pretty good.

POS does not allow any compensation for transfers between members. It's that way in all my POS that I have.

The transfers that I'd be willing to make would be those 2 or 3 point transfers and for no money to help another member. Except I don't have any points to transfer at this time.

 

[dianeschlicht]

What about Beca's example?

What about the member who wants to plan a family reunion and needs 320 points transferred in to his account. He is no longer able to transfer 100 points from one member, 150 from another and then 70 from a third. Now he must find one member who 1) is willing to transfer exactly 320 points, 2) who has a history on the boards and can provide references, 3) who is asking a reasonable price, and 4) who has not already used up his one transfer for the year. This "matchmaking", which is now required, is not going to be easy.

I don't want to rent reservations from several members. I want to be able to control the points in my account.

There is no doubt members are losing a lot of flexibility.

Well, for starters, you might have to start living within your means like the majority of owners do. You may not "want" to have someone else make your reservations with a rental, but since we aren't allowed to take money for a transfer, that's what you'll have to do unless you choose to buy an add-on. I believe we have all said it all, and while some of us see the logic of the standing rule and some don't, the fact of it is a reality, so it's time to move on and enjoy those Disney trips again.

 

[Sammie]

I am the OP and my #1 complaint about this is that it is restricitve and non-flexible. I have been a member for 6 years and never complained...ever....except about this rule enforcemement.

I know that abuses are occuring...but stop those individuals, not the casual owner. The funny thing is that I have only transferred points out twice in 6 years. But this enforcement is making me consider selling one of my 250 point contracts as I NEVER use all 500 points per year.

I prefer transferring my extra points to an existing DVC owner for $10 pp, rather than renting to a stranger for $11-$12pp. Now that I can only do it once....I have to plan very carefully, where in the past.....no problem with a 4 point transfer because there is no restriction.

Bill, if you never use all 500 points why do you have them.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Bill, if you never use all 500 points why do you have them.

Exactly.

 

[ralphd]

Some are saying:

Disney should only enforce the rules that I want them to enforce!

 

[dianeschlicht]

Some are saying:

Disney should only enforce the rules that I want them to enforce!

yep

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Some are saying:

Disney should only enforce the rules that I want them to enforce!

I also agree.

MG

 

[Anjelica]

and I guess, maybe its my newness to dvc, that I don't understand why folks transfer huge points to non-friends/family members with no compensation? It does seem pretty clear in the POC that no money can transfer between the two parties or two contracts, etc. doing the exchange so what motivates folks to regularlly do it?

Yes, I can see the members who need the 4-10 points and another member being kind to do it with no compensation, etc. but what motivates others?

In terms of transfers per year and the rare occassion you may need to use it more than once (like Beca) maybe they let you roll over your transfer use per year up to the three years like they do now with points. Of course, I know this would mean money spent on updating systems, documentation, etc. so maybe just not feasible.

It does seem that those who very rarely used it and followed the no compensation rule, but still needed to do it more than once in a particular year - yes I'm afraid they are caught in the "crossfire".

The one thing Disney needs to do is enforce its rules from the beginning and not in the middle, end or whenever it feels like it. Problem you get when you don't enforce the rules from the beginning is the "well I could do it before" scenario.

 

[Anjelica]

Some are saying:

Disney should only enforce the rules that I want them to enforce!

Yes that is sad - don't we always want our cake and to eat it too...

 

[havencruiser]

My understanding of the enforcement of the rule was to snuff out the folks who buy up "Cheap" points online and then transfer or rent them out at higher rates.

 

[Beca]

Some are saying:

Disney should only enforce the rules that I want them to enforce!

ITA!!! IMO, it would be MORE "fair" for DVC to find a way to prevent compensation for transfers than it would be for them to change the rules on those of us that purchased under the 2003 POS. Now, if DVC cannot find a way to enforce a rule.....why even have it as a rule??

Add the "no compensation" to the LONG list of rules that WDW makes, and then chooses not to enforce...making sure that children who get in free are truly under 3, making sure that children getting reduced prices are truly under 9 (or, whatever the age is), making sure that no one parks at BCV to go into Epcot (give them a 2-hr pass), put in gates or enforce wristbands ALL the time at ALL WDW pools, check all DVC and hotel rooms at WDW to make sure no one is over "stated" occupancy limits (oh, unless MS has decided not to enforce their rule and is saying so).....what else? I'm sure I am missing quite a bit!!!

I guess I would alter this to day, I wish DVC would enforce THEIR rules, and not "pick and choose"....it makes me VERY nervous about changes to come (and, since I purchased in 2004, it IS a change). Maybe they shouldn't start making any "new" rules until they enforce the ones they already have.

I think those who are seeing this as a one-time change, and live in the world that DVC will never further limit our flexibility as the need suits them, are truly walking around with rose-colored glasses. I'm glad I sold off one contract, and will consider selling more if/when I hear a PEEP that future changes may be coming. I do think as DVC adds more and more resorts, our flexibility may limited to a point where DVC begins to lose its resale value.

Certainly as more WDW rooms become "available" for II trades, they will become less valuable. That means that it will begin to cost us more to trade. Not being able to transfer your points, and get $10 per point for them (yes, I know..."rule-breaking" here), means that you either have to manage a rental, or be happy with the $4-5 per point equivalent that DVC offers you if you want to take a DVC cruise. I have never done that, but I certainly understand those who are upset because this change has made it more difficult for them to do so.

For those who are not upset...I am thrilled for you!!! Great!! I just hope the next changes do not bother you, either. For those of us who are bothered by this....we are wise to be on our toes!!

 

[Longhairbear]

Well, for starters, you might have to start living within your means like the majority of owners do. .

I totally agree with you on that. We live within our means, and only have enough points for when and where we choose to stay. We saved up and bought add ons to go more often, or to stay in a larger unit. I've never done a transfer, and have no idea why I would want, or need to. Heck, I am still not sure exactly why a transfer is even needed, if I am planning ahead, and I can afford it using the points I already own. If I needed more points for a trip, then I will buy more, or pare down the accomodations, shorten length of stay, pay cash,or not go at all.
Enforcing an existing rule has no affect on me, as I do not break the rules. There is absolutely no way this enforcement is eroding any flexibility in my membership.