New rule enforcement on points

[Steamboat Bill]

I want to limit commercial renters and profiteers as much as everyone else, yet I feel I will suffer as a DVC owner with this new rule enforcement.

I used to own 4 contracts 250 points each and now I own only 2 contracts. I love DVC and use it a lot. I am of the mindset that if something is good, then more if that something will be fantastic.

Honestly, 1,000 was more points that I ever used as I hated to spend the points to stay Fri-Sat nights and I found myself transferring extra points to family and friends accounts and occasionally rented points on DIS before they expired.

Now, I face a situation of only being allowed to transfer once a year and I think that sucks for me. Perhaps Disney should crack down on the abusers and not the entire DVC community. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[mello]

I just got caught up in this yesterday. I was unaware of this new policy, or enforcement, or whatever it is. We have had to postpone a major trip with extended family due to the increase in gas/airfare, and found ourselves with a year's worth of extra points. We had it all arranged to transfer them in increments to another member. We did it in increments because of paypal account acceptance limits. We did the first in July, and then voila! When I called in August I was told I could no longer do it this year. I'm so upset to find out about this after the fact. It is just SO SAD that normal people have to be punished because of the abuses of a few. Now we're all in for a major hassle...
__________________

 

[nicky mouse]

I used to own 4 contracts 250 points each and now I own only 2 contracts. I love DVC and use it a lot. I am of the mindset that if something is good, then more if that something will be fantastic.

With 2 contracts you should be able to do two transfers, one for each contract. Although I'm sure that's not much help.

 

[nicky mouse]

I just got caught up in this yesterday. We have had to postpone a major trip with extended family due to the increase in gas/airfare, and found ourselves with a year's worth of extra points. We had it all arranged to transfer them in increments to another member, and voila! After the 1st transfer I was told I could no longer do it this year. Now we're all in for a major hassle...

That's a big bummer. Sorry you're getting stuck with a bunch of points. I hope that you find a way to use them or rent them.

 

[mello]

Guess I'll be renting... But gee, now I"m worried about "establishing a pattern of rental activity" or whatever.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I just got caught up in this yesterday. I was unaware of this new policy, or enforcement, or whatever it is. We have had to postpone a major trip with extended family due to the increase in gas/airfare, and found ourselves with a year's worth of extra points. We had it all arranged to transfer them in increments to another member. We did it in increments because of paypal account acceptance limits. We did the first in July, and then voila! When I called in August I was told I could no longer do it this year. I'm so upset to find out about this after the fact. It is just SO SAD that normal people have to be punished because of the abuses of a few. Now we're all in for a major hassle...

Sorry to all that are genuine DVC'rs. Something had to be done. All the prime times were being consumed by commercial renters. I wish Disney had set the limit to maybe 2 or 3 transfers. Maybe they will adjust this as they see how many true owners are being effected. That doesn't help now, and then that is easy for me to say since I only own 220 points. I hope Disney can come up with a fair enforcement policy... I would like to see a case by case assessment by them, but there is no way we (DVC) can afford to fund that type of process. This is a real sticky situation. Good luck to all!

 

[CarolMN]

IMHO, you are over reacting. You can still rent to your friends and families. Can't be that much more work if you are renting mostly to family and friends.

Best wishes -

 

[Y-ASK]

With 2 contracts you should be able to do two transfers, one for each contract. Although I'm sure that's not much help.

But not to the same person/contract that they already transferred to. It's one transfer per year in one direction. That 1st transfer did it all for both of those accounts. So even if the sender had two accounts if the receiver did not have another account then it's a done deal for this year. If this ever happens again you'll know to transfer all the points in one shot .

Y-ASK

Like Carol said just make the reservation for the other member and have MS tie the two reservations together.

 

[Dean]

As I've said, this will likely hurt the average member more than anyone else.

 

[mello]

IMHO, you are over reacting. You can still rent to your friends and families. Can't be that much more work if you are renting mostly to family and friends.

Best wishes -

I'm genuinely LOL about that ... friends and family are more trouble if anything... they want you to make a million changes, and then change it all back again Which is why I should heed the advice of all these people in all these threads that say, "Don't get your close friends and extended family involved in your trips..." But I keep envisioning our extended family basking in Mickey's glow like all the happy generational families in the DVC videos and I keep trying to make it happen.

Anyway, yes, I was told by the MS CMs that I can make a ressie in someone else's name rather than make the point transfer. It's just that we had already transferred half the points. So now we're going to be working out the details of a split, linked ressie (and of course one account needs like 4 more points for one night), and making lots more phone calls and such. And yes, that's the breaks when you rent points. It's just that 1. I wouldn't have been renting the points if my family hadn't bailed on us this year, and 2. I was totally expecting to be done with this today, and now I've got a logistical nightmare, and it's throwing me for a bit of a loop at the moment.

Ah well, live and learn.
And, you know when you sign your DVC contract, and they jokingly say, "here's your light bedtime reading" as they hand you that packet of legal documents? They're not joking!... read it! If we had actually read it, and not relied on the Dis for all of our information, we would have known this clause existed!

 

[Cruelladeville]

IMHO, you are over reacting. You can still rent to your friends and families. Can't be that much more work if you are renting mostly to family and friends.

Best wishes -

You're joking, right?

 

[CarolMN]

You're joking, right?

Nope. But after reading all the horror stories here, I recognize that not all familes are like mine. I am very lucky. (But I don't rent - if we invite family along, we provide the accomodations. If anyone else asks to use our timeshare, I just say sorry, no).

FWIW, I believe others (family & friends included) can only take advantage of you if you let them. My advice is to use a contract/written understanding no matter who is going with you and to get the money up front!

Best wishes -

P.S. Mello - I am sorry for those who got caught in the middle of the enforcement change and have a situation like yours. I know it can still be worked out, but as you say, it will require more effort on your part - sorry your family bailed. If you invite those same people again, it will be lots and lots harder to be sympathetic, LOL.

 

[mello]

Nope. But after reading all the horror stories here, I recognize that not all familes are like mine. I am very lucky. (But I don't rent - if we invite family along, we provide the accomodations. If anyone else asks to use our timeshare, I just say sorry, no).

FWIW, I believe others (family & friends included) can only take advantage of you if you let them. My advice is to use a contract/written understanding no matter who is going with you and to get the money up front!

Best wishes -

P.S. Mello - I am sorry for those who got caught in the middle of the enforcement change and have a situation like yours. I know it can still be worked out, but as you say, it will require more effort on your part - sorry your family bailed. If you invite those same people again, it will be lots and lots harder to be sympathetic, LOL.

Oh no! They're already invited! All we did was postpone the vacation from 2007 to 2008. But I won't expect you to feel sorry for me when they mess up that one. We're not changing it for anything (or so we hope) lol.

 

[mello]

Just because I'm feeling out of sorts today I'll play devil's advocate here, and mention that when I had my points posted available for transfer, I got an offer of $9 per point from somebody whom I'm pretty sure I've seen posting points and ressies for $11. That just totally rubbed me the wrong way. I politely turned the offer down, but wondered how many have not, and wondered if this was something I should make others aware of or not.

So, even though I've been aversely affected by this new crackdown this week, I totally can see the need for it. I just wish that Disney would come up with a way to truly distinguish between the little fish and the big sharks, kwim?

 

[Steamboat Bill]

With 2 contracts you should be able to do two transfers, one for each contract. Although I'm sure that's not much help.

Actually, that is not true.

I am only allowed one transfer per membership number (no matter how many contracts I have as that member). Thus, if I had 10 contracts for 200 points each, I am still only allowed one transfer for the entire year.

If I knew this, I would have put one DVC contract in my name and the other in my wife's name, then we could do two transfers.

 

[scraptoons]

I want to limit commercial renters and profiteers as much as everyone else, yet I feel I will suffer as a DVC owner with this new rule enforcement.

I used to own 4 contracts 250 points each and now I own only 2 contracts. I love DVC and use it a lot. I am of the mindset that if something is good, then more if that something will be fantastic.

Honestly, 1,000 was more points that I ever used as I hated to spend the points to stay Fri-Sat nights and I found myself transferring extra points to family and friends accounts and occasionally rented points on DIS before they expired.

Now, I face a situation of only being allowed to transfer once a year and I think that sucks for me. Perhaps Disney should crack down on the abusers and not the entire DVC community. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I totally understand what you are saying. You should be able to transfer your points as it best suits your needs.

Do you have any alternative ideas to crack down on the abusers? Would love to hear them.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

You might still be able to finish your transfer if the other party hasn't had a transfer since the ...rule adjustment...(for some its a change for others its enforcement). That is to say if both of you haven't engaged in transfers since the event you might be argue reasonably with the CM that you were caught by surprise and would they engage in one last transfer for each of you. Assuming one big transfer would work for you.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

IMHO, you are over reacting. You can still rent to your friends and families. Can't be that much more work if you are renting mostly to family and friends.

Not true...I like transfers as it is a clean break from my points. Once they are transfered, they are gone.

With a rental, I control the reservation (and cancellations if the renter changes their mind) and I believe I am liable for any damage to the unit by the renters. In addition, if I ever sell my timeshare I have to wait until the reservation is over or the reservation gets cancelled.

As you quickly see, anyone with more than 150 points may suffer. I have 2 contracts totaling 500 points and I am glad I sold my 2 other contracts last year for 500 points.

Of course, I can still make a reservation, but transfers to another DVC member was a breeze and was my preferred way to rent/sell my extra points.

 

[Jeremy&Susan]

It sounds like all the transfer and commercial renter conversation really revolves around point morphing.

Disney appears to be fixing a factor that is not the true root cause of the problem.

If a group of contracts is owned by a number of different entities (say all different members of a family or trust owning cheaper VB or HH or OKW points), those points can all get transfered under the one transfer from an account rule into a 50 point BCV account owned by another person. Those points would then become BCV point through the magic of morphing and your prime time ressies all get sucked up again.

If DVC spent the money one time to truely computerize the points and tracking system, the saving over the next twenty years would pay for the effort multiple times. DVC needs to perform a cost benefit analysis and figure how much time & money MS is going to waste just managing one transfer per account, I bet that number would open a few eyes on the board.

Quick math, just like when the saleman did that talked you into the benefit of DVC:
MS time a conservative 5 minutes (to record) and 5 minutes (later track or decifer a transfer)
Guestimate 1/2 the members per year make transfers (100K+ and going up every day) = 50K+
= 50K X 10 minutes = 500K min/yr = 8,333 hrs/yr
If an MS employee is only paid $10/hr +$15/hr for unemployment insurance & bennies (this hourly rate is very low and probably at least twice this amount)
Yearly cost to DVC (Hey thats us) = $ 208,325/yr Based on real conservative numbers.

You may say, it's only $2 per person so what.

The point is a computer software modification (even if they need to go from 16 to 32 bit or 32 to 64 data logging) can not cost as much as they spend tracking this stuff in five years. Costs keep going up. Think what a manual system is costing us over the life of our contracts.

Who in this day and age tracks numbers and account info manually?????? Making a note in somebody's file about a transfer that was done some time ago and now needs to be verified so I can hurry up and make a reservation for this Disney Loving Family, is way too funny if you think about it.

Hey maybe DVC has all MIT nuclear physicists trying to keep track of this point tranfer thingy. If that's the case, I'll need to increase my hourly rate estimate.

Oh Yeah, and double the time estamate as well. Nuclear Physicists never get a job done in 5 or 10 minutes.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Disney appears to be fixing a factor that is not the true root cause of the problem.

Absolutely!!!!

I am a software developer and the easiest way to fix this is to differenciate points.

For example, DVC may be only looking at a point as "1" no matter where it comes from. This needs to change and the fix is not that hard.

My suggestion to to label each point with a location and use year:

"1WL0806" = 1 point at Wilderness Lodge, August 2006 use year
"1KW0107" = 1 point at Old Key West, Janauray 2007 use year

If anyone at Disney listening or monitoring these boards....please call me.