New policy for using or buying a few points??

[BWV Dreamin]

Nice post! A couple of extra thoughts.... As far as violating existing rules as Chuck points out. The rules in place, ie transfers, are between members only, not with DVC. So actually those terms as they are now would not need to be modified. My other thought concerns the question of " burning" through those existing 4 percent of points Disney is holding. Are there really that many people that want to rent 2,10,15 points? The reallocation has really hurt alot of members, and people just don't have the dollars to buy more points. This scenario could really be a win-win situation. I also don't think it will impact current members ability to rent out their points as I have a feeling DVC would put a pretty high price on moving such small amounts of points per transaction. Very interesting.

Maybe the "change" will be in relation to other recent changes. Maybe not but hear me out...

I assume Disney saw the Dadio's of the world (commercial point renting services) making money off the rental of points. They have changed a few rules of recent to limit and/or prohibit this in large numbers (transfer rule change couple years back, redefineing commercial renting a few years back, limiting associate members, point reallocations of past couple of years). So maybe they will start a similar program to eliminate the competition all together in this area by offering a member point exchange program of sorts. If they allowed members to sell points back or even "loan" points (deposit 15 pts this year, receive 15pts the following year) in to a pooled system were other members could use those points by charging a rental for a fee $x per point + transaction fees. This would provide more flexability to the members with point overages, provide a service to those members in need of points while providing yet another revenue stream which they currently dont have access to by managing those points of its members internally.

Just a thought...

 

[dianeschlicht]

But...If DVC were to establish a "trade back" policy like other timeshares have, they would have that extra inventory needed to let people "rent" the extra points they need.

Other timeshares have all kinds of policies about "lending" your points when you aren't using them. Basically, many are programs where the timeshare itself matches up the renter with the rentee.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'd figure more of a price based on a prorated but discounted room rate, maybe $20 a point

$20 is probably more than rack in many situations.

For example, we have a 2BR reserved at VWL this summer, in late July. It is 352 points as a DVC reservation. Rack rate on the room is about $5,200, including tax, or a total of $14.75/point, give or take. Partly, this is due to an inversion in the CRO Calendar (which is in Value Season then) and the DVC calendar (Magic), but I bet it's not the only instance.

The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).

These points are held in part for maintenance; I suspect they aren't easily used.

If DVC were to establish a "trade back" policy like other timeshares have, they would have that extra inventory needed to let people "rent" the extra points they need.

I don't think they'd need to. As Dean points out, these aren't the only points potentially in play. For example, any points exchanged for Disney-owned but non-DVC lodging, DCL cruises, or ABD trips must somehow be monetized by DVCMC to pay the other business units for Member usage. Right now, it is a pretty hard slog for CRO to rent those rooms to the general public, as folks are scaling back and staying in less expensive categories right now. But, renting points to the Membership might be a more efficient way to monetize some fraction of those points.

On the other side of the ledger, DVD will view it as a mechanism that may potentially cannibalize add-ons. But, if we're truly talking small #s of points (i.e. to complete a portion of the last night's stay) then it could be seen as sufficiently non-threatening.

 

[hopare]

Something will be announced by DVC very soon.

How do you know? Did a bus driver tell you? h
I am just joking honestly, I would like this to happen!

 

[Chuck S]

Nice post! A couple of extra thoughts.... As far as violating existing rules as Chuck points out. The rules in place, ie transfers, are between members only, not with DVC. So actually those terms as they are now would not need to be modified. My other thought concerns the question of " burning" through those existing 4 percent of points Disney is holding. Are there really that many people that want to rent 2,10,15 points? The reallocation has really hurt alot of members, and people just don't have the dollars to buy more points. This scenario could really be a win-win situation. I also don't think it will impact current members ability to rent out their points as I have a feeling DVC would put a pretty high price on moving such small amounts of points per transaction. Very interesting.

But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.

So are the state lawsto be considered only Florida as this is where DVD is located, or states where the timeshares reside, ie FL, SC, CA, and HI? Do we know in fact that these laws would be violated at the present?

 

[Chuck S]

Laws would fall under each state where a resort is located. For instance, if there was a law prohibiting isuch a practice in SC, then unlimited internal transfers would not be available for stays at HHI, or perhaps to owners at HHI staying at other resorts. It is a quagmire that Disney likely would not want to venture into if different policies were required for different resort locations.

 

[tjkraz]

The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).

I'm not sure exactly where this number comes from but if true, it's a combination of points held for different purposes.

DVD retains about 2% at each resort for maintenance purposes. The exact numbers are disclosed in each year's annual budget.

Those points give them the ability to take each unit out of service for one week per year. In some cases those could be radical refurbishments like BWV and OKW. In other situations it's simply a couple days in the spring and fall for painting plus other random days for appliance replacement, new carpet, tile work, etc. I don't know whether or not DVD could legally rent these points, but it seems that the capacity should largely be needed to perform scheduled maintenance tasks.

Other points held would originate with ROFR activities and unsold units from newer properties. Those points would be DVD's to do with as they please.

It seems with about 150,000 to 200,000 members, they could burn through those points pretty quickly.

But doesn't that speak to the viability of such a rental system?

Use whatever volume you want. If DVD makes a half million points available for one-time rental by members, at $20 each that's $10 million in revenue PER YEAR.

If all it takes is a computer programming investment to get such a system up and running, why not do it? The only real argument against would be that it somewhat discourages add-on sales. But if DVD wants to rent at $20 per point, it wouldn't take many transactions to add up to the equivalent of an add-on. 10 members renting 10 points each at $20 is $2000 in revenue. Is any one of those 10 members really a viable candidate to otherwise buy a 25-pt add-on? Plus DVD gets to re-rent the same points again next year.

I'll say this--renting the points at $20 (or more) each is a lot more profitable than giving away single or double Developer's Points as a sales incentive. Assuming there is demand for $20 point rentals, in years past DVD has given away $6400 worth of points (320 points x $20) as a throw-in on a 160-pt purchase.

 

[Brian Noble]

Wyndham does not allow owners to transfer points between them at all, but *does* rent points to owners to complete the last night's stay or, within 90 days prior to check-in, as many as you want up to your annual allocation.

Wyndham has several resorts in Florida, and I believe the points trust may be incorporated there as well. It's possible that Wyndham is in violation of FL law, but this suggests that it could be legal.

 

[DVCGeek]

offering a member point exchange program of sorts.

I like the idea you described, and the logic makes sense how it could help fight competition. Now I just need to keep reading to see what others have said as posts crossed!

 

[Dean]

But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.

It depends. First, one might classify this at something other than an exchange but more likely, they'd just modify the legal requirements exempting this process, something they could easily do without a vote of members since there really isn't any downside. From reading through the info, I know of nothing in the FL law that would be an issue other than as any practice violated the POS and related paperwork.

As for the % of points owned at sold out resorts, DVC has never released the numbers other than to generalize it to be in the 2-4% range. 4% is certainly beyond the amount needed for maint and given the setup of the system they can likely run maint just on lost points in off season other than emergency issues. If it's 4% owned, that certainly gives a fair chunk of points to fund such a possibility. 2% is likely the max needed for maint but even that is likely more than enough.

Bluegreen also does not allow transfers nor do they rent extra points. They allow shorter notice whole night rentals and in some cases, free upgrades and extensions to certain VIP level members members. I also own a single resort in MX that works on points and they rent points or extra nights but also do not allow transfers. From what I know most systems do not allow transfers and many don not rent points but RCI does both and though RCI previously charged a fee for transfers, they no longer do.

As I noted, it could be a win-win but there are many components of minor positives and minor negatives. Certainly there would be some competition with add ons and a significant start up investment but it would be an effective way to rent out points that are now going unrented and in a way this could be very positive to certain members and could be used to enhance sales. I have no way of knowing if they will do this or not and I don't really care personally other than I see it as good for the membership as a whole and neutral to positive to DVC. But like anything else, the devil's in the details and as I noted previously, in a sense one can already do this by renting an individual night in many cases.

 

[corpcomp]

Imaginer trying to sell at 5 point contract on TTS. $400 for the points, $400 for the closing costs.

 

[dudleydog]

Cool...announced today: $15 a point, can buy up to 24 ONCE a year for a one time reservation. No banking or borrowing them.

 

[andersonsc]

DVCnews.com has an articale stating members can buy up to 24 points per year from DVC for $15. One time per year for use at 7 mo. booking window.

 

[kathyell]

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-p...36-dvc-introduces-one-time-use-point-solution

Boils down to: once per use year, you can purchase up to 24 points for use in that use year for $15/point. Other info in the link.

Interesting.

 

[Nikisha421]

This maybe the answer to my upcoming summer vacation problem. I like the idea...but wouldn't it be cheaper to rent points from someone at $10...although this is easier to me no need to wonder if the reservation is still active since it will be your personal ressie!

 

[Nikisha421]

I guess maybe the inflated price takes into account the Maintainence fees and taxws, etc...

 

[JennaWest]

bump

 

[Disneycouple99]

Not a bad price.

 

[bwvBound]

Cool...announced today: $15 a point, can buy up to 24 ONCE a year for a one time reservation. No banking or borrowing them.

Thanks for posting the update! Full info via the DVC Member Site at: https://dvc.disney.go.com/dvc/member/memberDetail?id=OneTimeUseVacationPointsDetailPage (log in may be required)