New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[waltfan1957]

And many members are asking on the Board how to improve the likelihood of getting the reservation they want and no one has a good answer for them. The only answer seems to be call when you can and hope for some pixie dust. How can anyone be surprised that this is frustrating to them?

Under the old system, you might not be guaranteed a room, but you could guarantee that you did everything you needed to do to maximize your chance of getting what you wanted.

-- Suzanne

asked DVC Mike this very question twice check out his really usefull answer post 19007

 

[zulaya]

Again, this goes both ways though. How many folks who were successful with DBD made sure to write letters and call in to give their appreciation to DVC for allowing them to book DBD? Or was it more a case that someone called at 11 months of departure, were told things were sold out and the CM suggested DBD calling. The caller then gets upset because they did not know about DBD so they complain about it.

Agreed. This is a scenario that likely happened.

 

[zulaya]

How is it better? If we can eliminate all of the baseless FUD from people's minds, most will make one phone call (instead of 5 or 6) and still get exactly what they want.

And there is ample evidence to suggest that success levels under the new system will be much higher than this FUD-filled thread portrays.

Do you really think that people are holding onto so-called "baseless" FUD for their own entertainment?

And where is your ample evidence that this is so much more successful? I requested stats and numbers from DVC and was plain out told that that information would not be made available.

 

[bookwormde]

tjkraz

Well at least we have gotten you to move from, there is no evidence, to, in any great numbers.

At least that is an acknowledgment that some members will be negatively affected

If you mean by manner in which room are allocated, who gets them then you are correct.

bookwormde

 

[BWV Dreamin]

While the numbers are random in that I don't know how much greater the chance of success/failure is, the overall gist is that there is a greater chance of success/failure. The point was simply that the chances of you getting some of your 7 day stay DBD are going to be higher than you getting all 7 days under the new system.

You have nothing to base this statement on. Until you have credable data, lets keep these statements as "opinion".

 

[Kathi OD]

Perhaps you should re-read some of the postings you are accusing of exhibiting panic. I'm not a DBD booker. I have used it once, on the recommendation by an MS advisor.

No one is panicking and frankly, I'm a little tired of those of you who approve of this policy accusing those of us who have legitimate concerns of being panicked and paralyzed with fear. It is an over-exaggeration.

If you have a difference of opinion, that's fine. I can agree to disagree with your point of view. But for you to tell me that I am panicked and paralyzed with fear is not true. There are others who have posted on this thread that also are not obsessive DBD bookers that are opposed to this as well.

If you like the policy, fine. Leave it at that.

If you're not panicking, that's fine. I didn't think that I mentioned your post specifically and we can agree to disagree.

But I think that if you reread the thread, the majority of people who more often than not use DBD booking for their ressies, ARE panicking that they won't be able to get what they want going forward under the new system.

All I am suggesting is that they wait and see what can only be known after this new system is in place for a bit. Stating that the new system is unfair is, at this point, unfounded speculation.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Can you believe I am just seeing this thread for the first time I can't. I feel like I have missed the best debate we've had in many months.

This must be a considerable cost savings for Disney both in human resources required and communication costs.

I can't decide what the impact will be though. I have always thought of the DBD as the equalizer between the little owner and the mega owner, but as long as they keep it to 7 nights I don't think it will have any significant impact. Guess we'll find out when we get there.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Can those of you who have experienced terrible wait times please clarify what that means?

What time of day did you call?
What dates were you trying to book?
How long was your hold time?
.

Just about the whole month of December and January. Hold times were up to 2 hours if you could wait that long. Most hung up and tried another time. There were terrible wait times from 9 am on all day long.

 

[DVC Mike]

Can those of you who have experienced terrible wait times please clarify what that means?

What time of day did you call?
What dates were you trying to book?
How long was your hold time?

I booked my Dec 2008 trip at VWL using DBD. Calling every morning at 9am in early January, I got busy signal after busy signal, or if I was lucky to get through, the wait time on hold was horrendous.

If I add-up all the time I spent that week on hold, it's pretty ridiculous. No vacation club should require you to spend so much time on hold. A lot of that call volume were other DBD bookers calling back each morning.

The new system will decrease the amount of time I'll have to spend on hold listening to Disney song after Disney song.

 

[DVC Mike]

Do you really think that people are holding onto so-called "baseless" FUD for their own entertainment?

Of course not. Change can sometimes generate uncertainty, and I understand why members might become concerned with the policy change -- especially those that book DBD as they feel they are loosing what they perceive is a valuable tool.

I think a lot of folks on this board may be worried about their ability to book their reservations. A lot of people who weren't concerned before are probably fearful now after reading this long thread.

The bottom line is: should folks be fearful of the new policy? Based upon the information available, I don't think so. Yes, that is my opinion.

However, I believe the fear is not founded on fact, but upon hypothetical scenarios that may or may not occur. There may be some loosers with the new policy, but I think there will be more people who benefit from the new policy than those who don't.

You don't have to agree with me, and I don't have to agree with you. We'll all see how this plays out over the next few months. It's premature (IMO) for folks to talk about selling their membership.

 

[Inkmahm]

Yes, I have. You have the choice not to reserve for Christmas, and NYE. You have the choice to reserve 1 day, 2 days, 14 days, etc. When you choose to do so or not has no bearing on your opportunity to do so. Everyone has equal opportunity, everyone does not have the same amount of points, the same daytime employment hours, the same time off. So all you are guaranteed to have is the opportunity, and whether your lifestyle or personal financial situation allows you to take advantage of the opportunity has no bearing. You are the one that has to adjust if it doesn't meet your needs.

My opportunity to do so is compromised by someone who is allowed to book earlier than me just by virture of their arrival date. That could not happen under the old DBD booking based on departure date but it does happen now. I could have absolutely ZERO opportunity to book a room if they have all been booked before I am allowed to call for my reservation. That could not happen under the old DBD booking.

 

[Dean]

Dean:

When I purchased my DVC I was not looking to be in a contest for being a winner or loser regarding future reservations. I did not buy a timeshare that said I must come in on Friday or Saturday to get a reservation. I bought a flexible system that was fair to all.

WHO WERE THE LOSERS IN THE OLD SYSTEM? Everyone had a right to call each and everyday of their reservation. The new system does not provide this level of equality PERIOD!!!!!!

Once again I ask you and Chloe who are the deserving members and the non-deserving members????

maminnie

You bought into a timeshare that was one way but could easily change and you either knew or should have known. And it was a timeshare where you knew you might or might not get your reservation. Given we're talking the 11 month window, there could not be any more losers now than there were before. If there were not losers under the old system there would be no loser under the new system, plain and simple and absolute. And as I said, the system should not be in the business of deciding who is a deserving members, it should set up a system that is reasonable for the membership as a whole. If that creates winners and losers then so be it. IMO, DVC doesn't have the right to make such judgments, they need to be objective. Actually they shouldn't make alterations based on personal situations at all.

A reservation system should NOT support one member over another...Period. The new system clearly favors those that can arrive before others.

The new system doesn't favor one member over another. It may favor one reservation choice over another and IMO, that is OK.

 

[Starr W.]

Can those of you who have experienced terrible wait times please clarify what that means?

What time of day did you call?
What dates were you trying to book?
How long was your hold time?

I have to say in the 5+ years I've been a member, I've waited at most 15 minutes. Now I admit, I don't go during Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas week/President's Week or the Spring Break times that seem most popular for the east coast members, so maybe that's why.

I've seen sporadic reports of longer waits and vaguely recall one posting about 1 hour waits, but I want to say that was for the DVC cruise. I fully admit to not being the waiting-on-hold police so maybe I've missed those threads. But they certainly haven't been as huge as this one nor stayed long enough on the front page to garner much notice.

I got stuck on hold for 25 minutes the first time I booked Thanksgiving. It was a Saturday and I called maybe 10 minutes after MS opened up.

Thank goodness for my speakphone!

That's the longest I've been on hold.

 

[Dean]

I may be wrong but dont you own more than one timeshare, if so you may not be bothered by this as you have an alterative which many peoplle dont have.

Actually they do have alternatives including buying other timeshares if they desire. The truth and reality is that not everyone is going to get what they want every time and in some cases, none of the time. DVC members have been spoiled over the years with a higher success rate than industry standards suggest was likely.

But this is exactly what tjkraz and I were going on and on about a few posts above. Are there 'many times' where you can't get what you want at 11 months from departure? Or aren't there? If there are, it shows that DBD was needed in those cases.

We don't know the numbers or percentages but the fact that DBD was "fair" is not accurate. It would have ONLY been fair if everyone knew about it and had the opportunity to do so, many didn't, how many, I wouldn't know nor would you. The new system is the same for everyone. It is noticed on the website and will be written up in Disney Files, everyone will know or at least have the direct opportunity to know. I was OK with DBD bookings and I'm OK with the changes. Everyone will have the same opportunity as everyone else, if they make different choices of when to call and start their reservation or they don't have enough points to give themselves the same opportunity, that is a personal issue. The could chose different days, buy more points, book longer times, whatever is needed in their eyes to maximize their choices.

There is a lot less flexibility and choice now. Sure, you might not have to move, but you might not get what you want at all. This takes away the CHOICE of those that might be willing to move around to get their specific resort/room/category for a particular vacation.

IMO, as it should be. The new process may have disadvantages and I say that is OK.

 

[Dean]

Again, this goes both ways though. How many folks who were successful with DBD made sure to write letters and call in to give their appreciation to DVC for allowing them to book DBD? Or was it more a case that someone called at 11 months of departure, were told things were sold out and the CM suggested DBD calling. The caller then gets upset because they did not know about DBD so they complain about it.

My understanding was that many who were successful still complained about the necessity to do so.

Then you would also agree that, for 99% of the cases, booking on departure date would give all members an equal chance to book as well?

To be clear, it seems to me your stance here is that both systems (full arrival/departure), for 99% of the cases, would be successful. It's just that the new system could cut down on call volumes?

I doubt it's 99% but in my view it doesn't matter as if there are any losers under the new system there were at least an equal # under the old system. It seems many here are ignoring the FACT that DVC felt there was a problem and they needed to find a solution. It's also FACT that their judgment was that reserving DBD was a problem to the members and for MS. You can disagree with their judgment if you want. They came up with a solution, one I feel was reasonable. But lets assume that you were in charge and felt you needed to change and were willing to do what was best for the system and members as a whole (to a degree what's best for the system IS also best for the members). Your goal was to significantly decrease DBD calls, maximize reservations on a single call, stay within the POS and keep members overall as happy as possible realizing you can't make everyone happy. And further assume you were willing to support the best system even if it was horrible for you personally. What would YOU come up with as a change?, keeping DBD would not be an option nor would complicated formulas, algorithms to see who was most deserving or the like.

 

[Dean]

Again, I think AKV Concierge is a tough example to use because there are only like a half dozen rooms.

But this type of reservation is exactly the litmus test that should be used. If it's not tough enough to have a problem getting the reservation, nothing matters. There are certainly other approaches DVC could have made. They could have simply said non DBD or each addition was either a separate reservation or a cancellation and rebooking. Anything that would be consistently available at 7 days or more after the 11 month window opens is irrelevant. The only things that come into play are the things that one person was getting and another wasn't within that initial window. It seems many are saying it's OK to have losers as long as it's not them.

We cannot assume that just because 5 people are getting an advantage now, that 5 different people are being disadvantaged. It's not necessarily a zero sum game.

Actually if you change people to reservations it is a zero sum game as there are only X number of any given unit and only X units total for any day.

If this becomes widespread, then the next "enhancement" we may be likely to see is to make every change to a reservation a total cancellation that requires rebooking. This would be an excellent way to bring that about. However, I don't think most folks want to see that happen, so you know the old saying... "Be careful what you wish for"...

Exactly except I see some type of similar change as a given.

 

[Dean]

I fail to understand why anyone is in favor of the new system unless you are a proponent of eliminating DBD booking.

Unless this change is saving DVC $$$$, there is no other reason for it, and if this is the situation, DVC will not return to the old system.

It's not that I'm specifically in favor of eliminating or reducing DBD bookings per se but rather than I do believe that the practice accounts for a significant and increasing portion of our dues and that dues will be lower without DBD bookings than with them. Given the posts on this board, it's a practice that's been growing exponentially over the last few years. This is one method but will likely need to be further restricted to be as successful as desired. Instituting change fees would also serve a similar purpose, can you see that thread.

but that would be fair and after all thats what all you pro enhancement members seem to want fairness but only under your terms!

Not only would it be fair, it would be desirable to the system and likely a necessary change to this change to make it truly workable, or at least some process that discourages DBD changes (again maybe a change fee) IMO.

 

[waltfan1957]

Actually they do have alternatives including buying other timeshares if they desire. The truth and reality is that not everyone is going to get what they want every time and in some cases, none of the time. DVC members have been spoiled over the years with a higher success rate than industry standards suggest was likely.

not everone can afford this as you are an inteligent man i am suprised by your answer, by the way what industry standards are we talking about did'nt everone say Disney is not like other time shares so how can you compare.

 

[Dean]

Can those of you who have experienced terrible wait times please clarify what that means?

What time of day did you call?
What dates were you trying to book?
How long was your hold time?

I have to say in the 5+ years I've been a member, I've waited at most 15 minutes. Now I admit, I don't go during Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas week/President's Week or the Spring Break times that seem most popular for the east coast members, so maybe that's why.

I've seen sporadic reports of longer waits and vaguely recall one posting about 1 hour waits, but I want to say that was for the DVC cruise. I fully admit to not being the waiting-on-hold police so maybe I've missed those threads. But they certainly haven't been as huge as this one nor stayed long enough on the front page to garner much notice.

Calling at 9 am 20 minutes to an hour is not uncommon to get to speak with someone and another 20-30 minutes to make the reservation, be put on hold, etc is also not uncommon once you speak to live person.

Or all 12 could get nothing as there might be nothing at all available on Monday.

If so, that would mean there were 12 other reservations made by other members that were just as deserving, no more or no less.

Agreed. This is a scenario that likely happened.

And given this is not an option many people knew or had the opportunity to know, it would have been a valid complaint. From what I've heard it was actually mostly people actually calling DBD that made the majority of complaints. They knew about it, did it because it was necessary to give themselves the best chance of success but didn't like it. The new system is different, everyone will have the opportunity to know.

 

[DVC Mike]

It seems many here are ignoring the FACT that DVC felt there was a problem and they needed to find a solution. It's also FACT that their judgment was that reserving DBD was a problem to the members and for MS. You can disagree with their judgment if you want. They came up with a solution, one I feel was reasonable. But lets assume that you were in charge and felt you needed to change and were willing to do what was best for the system and members as a whole (to a degree what's best for the system IS also best for the members). Your goal was to significantly decrease DBD calls, maximize reservations on a single call, stay within the POS and keep members overall as happy as possible realizing you can't make everyone happy. And further assume you were willing to support the best system even if it was horrible for you personally. What would YOU come up with as a change?, keeping DBD would not be an option nor would complicated formulas, algorithms to see who was most deserving or the like.

There isn't such a thing as a perfect system that will be completely fair to everyone all the time.

I agree that the changes DVC made are reasonable and best for the membership as a whole.