New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[Judy WI]

I am sure people will cringe at the thought of black out dates. again [/QUOTE]

Most of us have problems remembering the pool black out dates so adding more for other things seems like a nightmare.

Sorry this thread has given this old chemo brain a real work out.

 

[danielle782001]

Hmmm...

Walking: Booking a room for a few days that you don't want, then cancelling them within a day or so, in order to get the days you do want. Apparently this is unethical.

Booking a reservation at your home resort at 11 months that you have no intention of using, then rebooking at a different resort at 7 months and cancelling the original reservation after tying it up for 4 months. Apparently this is a perfectly acceptable process.

We wish I did not have to make a reservation at 11 months that we really do not wish to use...We make the reseravtion at 11 months because we need the backup plan....We need to know we have a room to stay in for the week we want...So we make the reservation that we are entitled to make....At seven months we call to see if we can get a reservation in a more desirable resort for that vacation...We will keep our original reservation if there is nothing else available...We will cancel only if something else we want more is available...

There is nothing unethical about that...We are forced to do that because so many of the desirable properties get booked so quickly...It our right at 7 months to check if something better is available...The lack of space and increase in membership forces us to make a reservation in a resort we might not actually stay...

But I would not say we have "no intention on using" the reservation...We do have the intention, if nothing else is available...Ethical? Yes!!!!!!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

In eight years of booking at peak times I have never been advised to do this by MS. I've always been told I have to waitlist. Just because some people have been advised to do so, doesn't mean that everyone has. Seems to me that not every CM at MS is giving out this advice, so how does that make the playing field equal?

Again, the system itself was completely fair under the old policy because all rooms were open to everyone on the first possible day of booking.

Under the new policy if you try to book AKV concierge on the first day you are allowed to book, without walking, those rooms may be gone even before MS opens.

That's why the new system is not fair, and the reason for walking.

MG

 

[Maistre Gracey]

But I would not say we have "no intention on using" the reservation...We do have the intention, if nothing else is available...Ethical? Yes!!!!!!

Same could be said for walking a ressie.
If we didn't walk a ressie, we may not be able to book our "first choice". Therefor, as a method to guarantee our vacation dates, we must walk the ressie.

MG

 

[keishashadow]

We have always stayed where we bought.
I thought that there an element of risk involved with switching at 7 months because you were in the system with all the non-owners of the resort?
There might not be availability at the 7 month point.
Didn't you have to release your 1 reservation (home) to get into the other(non-home)? You risked not being able to go at all,or you stayed on your original reservation. This seemed "fair" because you were risking a sure thing for a switch, and if it didn't come through then you still stayed on the original reservation.

not if u have enough points in your account or @ other resort & were able to book the 2nd, then cancel the first. I asked MS every time i did this & was told it was perfectly acceptable. Many offered to switch out the UY points before I even asked

Well I made a reservation this morning. I decided to do it cleanly for a test (did not walk into it). From my understanding it is one of the most difficult reservations to get during the summer, OKW grand villa 5 weekdays HH designations (there are only 4). I called exactly at 9AM and was able to book it.

With a large proportion of members now directly notified it is probably a reasonably valid test for this time frame (though as more people who did not do DBD realize they can book sooner it may get more difficult).

So the only impact on me personally now is that I will still not buy a small BLT contract for trying to book a day or 2 at new years, unless I see reports that that is possible at the 11-month mark.

bookwormde

we r def rethinking a small add on @ BLT, even with banking & borrowing, thinking we'd probably be shut out with Walking/those with enough points to book longer ressie upfront

While i'll congrat u on securing ur ressie, not sure if u are a likely test case...still very early in the running(walking ).

must've missed where a large % of members were notified did an email go out or is it now listed on DVC member site (which i don't go to on regular basis as the site is typically just rehashing what i read here).

We wish I did not have to make a reservation at 11 months that we really do not wish to use...We make the reseravtion at 11 months because we need the backup plan....We need to know we have a room to stay in for the week we want...So we make the reservation that we are entitled to make....At seven months we call to see if we can get a reservation in a more desirable resort for that vacation...We will keep our original reservation if there is nothing else available...We will cancel only if something else we want more is available...

There is nothing unethical about that...We are forced to do that because so many of the desirable properties get booked so quickly...It our right at 7 months to check if something better is available...The lack of space and increase in membership forces us to make a reservation in a resort we might not actually stay...

But I would not say we have "no intention on using" the reservation...We do have the intention, if nothing else is available...Ethical? Yes!!!!!!

again, just a invested member who did the footwork/planning to make their membership work for them

what is really starting to irk me is the DVC promo videos that interview the members who tout the flexibility as to split their membership into short stays and the chance to visit all the different DVC resorts. This is a non traditional TS with expiry dates on usage...not the typical offering w/all the typical restrictions on usage. Always thought the trade off was the flexibility...now, im not too sure if that will continue to be valid

 

[ScottakaMickey]

Hi there, I think my concerns are more what have been echoed here on the boards (but maybe not?) It's that this wasn't really thought out. What's to stop people from always walking and taking up days they really did not want, causing someone else to have to WL for those days. And with the new WL there may be an even greater chance of not getting all what they want simply because someone started to "walk" their reservation 2 months ahead of time. That is probably stretching it, but I could see that happening.

I happen to have only 160 points, but with banking and a little borrowing was planning on 8 nights in a two-bedroom AKV Standard in Jambo during value season next year. Now while it's not a big time of year with the new rules I no longer feel I have an equal shot at my times. What if I suddenly wanted to go during the big times...since others have stated they plan on walking their reservations, when do I need to start walking mine? It now seems like a vicious circle that won't end. If person A starts 2 weeks out, person B will start three weeks out and so on.

Perhaps I'm just taking a look at all the negatives in this and like I said, it probably won't even effect us that much (we like early May and Sept/Oct) BUT I would also hate the possiblity that you would have to cancel and rebook your vacation if you needed to change a day. Too many variables to that when you book 11 months (or even 7) months out. Again, this is why I don't think the whole thing was that well thought out.

At first I liked the idea of a "hold" where for a certain amount of time you could not drop days in the beginning, but after thinking about it I don't even know if that is a good solution as those with tons of points will still start early and then really clog up WL for everyone else.

WOW - that was long winded answer ..but to answer your DBD question, doesn't bug me to have to call DBD. I knew that we could always call at the end of our vacation if we only wanted to make one call. When I called last year for this year on the first day I could just to see what the week looked like, the CM told me to call DBD because AKV did not have many standard (pool view) rooms.

Does that help answer at all?

Ty

Yes, thanks for the reply, sorry I was away this weekened and had to get caught up. It's the uneasiness about it all and the not knowing. Which kind of exists with the old system, but the only uneasiness was just that you needed to get through first thing in the morning on your DBD booking, and odds were that you'd get what you wanted via that method, noting there are still exceptions. The new system and walking introduces other factors which make it more unknown.

I personally had a heart ache about it when it was announced and was one of the early posters about walking as a way to work the system, see like post #50 or something like that. I was trying to do a AK conceirge on a DBD and was failing miserably. Then the new system launched and tried get Memorial Sunday thru Wednesday. I called and booked 7 days on starting on that Saturday, and was able to get what I wanted. I canceled the Saturday and 2 days on the end to get me what I wanted. I learned that I didn't need to book a 7 day res, just that I could book up to 7 day res, so I learned from that. Yes, I agree that in the process of doing all of that I took up days that someone else may have wanted, which I agree is a bad part of the new system and walking to get what you want, but there isn't another way that I could come up with to ensure you really do get what you want and not just leave it up to chance.

Again, thanks for your reply and good luck with your plans.

 

[DisneyKidds]

We wish I did not have to make a reservation at 11 months that we really do not wish to use...We make the reseravtion at 11 months because we need the backup plan....We need to know we have a room to stay in for the week we want...So we make the reservation that we are entitled to make....At seven months we call to see if we can get a reservation in a more desirable resort for that vacation...We will keep our original reservation if there is nothing else available...We will cancel only if something else we want more is available...

There is nothing unethical about that...We are forced to do that because so many of the desirable properties get booked so quickly...It our right at 7 months to check if something better is available...The lack of space and increase in membership forces us to make a reservation in a resort we might not actually stay...

But I would not say we have "no intention on using" the reservation...We do have the intention, if nothing else is available...Ethical? Yes!!!!!!

How is "walking" any different?

We always like to travel around Thanksgiving for a variety of reasons. We prefer the week after Thanksgiving, with an arrival the day after Thanksgiving. I don't like my chances of getting a day after Thanksgiving arrival under the new system. So I'll book an arrival the Friday before Thanksgiving and we'll go all of Thanksgiving week if we have to. However, just like you might prefer to stay in a different resort, I might prefer to arrive later in the week. So I'll secure what I can, and change to reservations to suit my needs if possible, all the while knowing I might have to use my existing reservation. I can't see DVC prohibiting all "walking" because what I just described is completely valid, and ethical.

I wish I didn't have to make a reservation for all of Thanksgiving week that we do not wish to use....we make it because we need the backup plan...we need to know we have a room around the time we prefer to travel...so we make the reservation we are entitled to make...and see if we can change to more desireable dates for that vacation...but we will keep our original reservation if we need to...we will only change the dates if something more desireable is available....and so the rest goes.

 

[LisaS]

I also think days cancelled (but needed for someones waitlist) should be put into a 7-10 day hold account before release to rebooking to allow those with wait list to be filled first before someone calling in for a new reservation. This would also help wait list get filled for those cancelling days that they walked but did not want.

Then again-reserving a day you know you wont use, also means a day you know you will be giving back to the system within a few days. So you kind of only "borrow" them. That will either fill a WL and make someones day, or open days for new callers.

Based on what has been reported about how the wait list will work, I think people who end up on the waiting list due to "walkers" will probably not get their wait list filled, at least not without a lot of effort, unless MS does what dzorn is suggesting.

Example: I call to book my usual 6-night stay. The first few nights are not available, maybe one or more at the end are available but I cannot book them since I can't get the first night. My only option is to waitlist for all six nights. If the nights weren't available due to "walkers" then as they walk forward booking more nights and freeing up some nights, the early nights of my stay become available but my waitlist won't fill because all of the nights are not available. I expect those nights will go to the first caller who is able to make a reservation with them. The only way I can get them is to call at the right time -- soon after the night(s) become available -- and fill in some of the nights of my own wait list. Again, this is based on feedback reported here that the wait list is "all or nothing" but we can call and fill in individual nights of our own wait list if any of those nights happen to be available when we call.

So I am concerned that those of us who choose not to "walk" and end up on a wait list will need to call several times a day to have any chance of filling in our wait list for busy times of the year. I can just see the threads here on the boards asking "walkers" to post the time they will be calling MS that day to free up certain nights so those of us on the waitlist know when to call MS to try to grab those nights for our wait lists.

 

[jade1]

Based on what has been reported about how the wait list will work, I think people who end up on the waiting list due to "walkers" will probably not get their wait list filled, at least not without a lot of effort, unless MS does what dzorn is suggesting.

Example: I call to book my usual 6-night stay. The first few nights are not available, maybe one or more at the end are available but I cannot book them since I can't get the first night. My only option is to waitlist for all six nights. If the nights weren't available due to "walkers" then as they walk forward booking more nights and freeing up some nights, the early nights of my stay become available but my waitlist won't fill because all of the nights are not available. I expect those nights will go to the first caller who is able to make a reservation with them. The only way I can get them is to call at the right time -- soon after the night(s) become available -- and fill in some of the nights of my own wait list. Again, this is based on feedback reported here that the wait list is "all or nothing" but we can call and fill in individual nights of our own wait list if any of those nights happen to be available when we call.

So I am concerned that those of us who choose not to "walk" and end up on a wait list will need to call several times a day to have any chance of filling in our wait list for busy times of the year. I can just see the threads here on the boards asking "walkers" to post the time they will be calling MS that day to free up certain nights so those of us on the waitlist know when to call MS to try to grab those nights for our wait lists.

New systems not looking so fair all of a sudden eh? Kind of makes you want to GO BACK TO THE OLD ONE doesn't it.

 

[jade1]

I am sure people will cringe at the thought of black out dates. again

Most of us have problems remembering the pool black out dates so adding more for other things seems like a nightmare.

Sorry this thread has given this old chemo brain a real work out.[/QUOTE]

I vote for it-who cant remember 3 major holidays-plus whats the risk? You call hoping to get your desired 7 days or whatever, and they say "well you can get the first 2-but the next 4 fall into the black out so you will need to call DBD or at check out". Finding you are suddenly on even ground with all home owners is not a bad thing-currently you may call and find nothing available from early arrivals or walkers.

 

[LisaS]

New systems not looking so fair all of a sudden eh? Kind of makes you want to GO BACK TO THE OLD ONE doesn't it.

I'm not commenting on the fairness so much as the ripple effects that could be created if walking becomes widespread. Also, MS has a history of shutting down what they consider abuse of the system in ways that hurt members who never participated, for example, the decision to limit point transfers to once per UY to put a stop to the large numbers of point transfers made by a small subset of members.

 

[jdg345]

It's not a desperate joke given the stupidity with which this change was undertaken. I am only deciding how many months in advance I will start walking next year's Xmas/New Year's reservation. I actually considered starting to walk for Xmas 2009 this week, but think that I will probably do it just a couple of months in advance. I think that they have created a system where this is essential since our vacations are very limited in terms of the start dates and are almost always at the Xmas holidays. We will see how this plays out.

Please make sure to use the proper emoticon:

 

[jdg345]

The case that I heard that illustrated the issue was a lady who called and asked for 12 of each (soaps, shampoo, etc) and when someone showed up with them she said thanks, these are for Xmas presents for XYZ. Obviously there had to be more than just that going on to make a change, a change that I frankly disagree with, as IMO, there are legit reasons to need a few extra towels, esp for a studio. But it's DVC BBQ, they hold the cards.

Oh well, that's nice ... placing a limit would have likely been a better option than cutting it out altogether though -- but I don't want to go off on an tangeant; thanks for the info!

Certainly the system should consider the wants/needs of it's members as well as the system's needs and arrive at a happy medium. It's essentially averaging the issues. And it might need to change or adjust in response to changing needs or simply change things that are not working as well or even to reduce costs to the system or to encourage sales in some situations. But to take the personal situation of a group or individual and hold it up as a sacred block to any change is not appropriate. I was the first to say of the old system that if you couldn't book DBD that was a personal issue. The old system worked for many, not for others, the new system will do the same and it will not always be exactly the same group. That is essentially what each and every change will do, affect some more than others and those that it affects negatively (or those that think it affects them) will not be happy and will jump up and down. Those that favor the old OR the new version should all make their thoughts known to DVC.

IMO, there is essentially no chance the system will be reversed to DBD and any chance of the new system staying the way it is now was erased about page 2 of this thread. I see the choices to fix the concerns within the framework of the new system as pretty limited. They could limit the number of times you could make such a reservation (maybe one a year per master contract), make each change a cancellation and rebooking, simply refuse to allow drops and add ons until the actual 7/11 month window opens, lottery's and special season preference lists. They could be a little more radical and make it 7 days or nothing with no changes under this options or some type of formal minimum stay, possibly requiring a Fri or Sat night to make the 11+7 reservations. I'm sure there are many variations we could come up with. Given the setup and past history, making each change a cancelation and rebooking seems to make the most sense. It's stops walking, it potentially fills the waitlist first and it minimizes phone calls. It doesn't address the concern some have about having more trouble getting reservations that are less than 7 days and reduces but does not eliminate the issue of your chances being tied to which day you start. But it also alters the landscape for those that truly need to make changes later that would then likely lose a hard to reserve option.

I just don't understand why they'd continue to tweak something that really doesn't work. They're just going to upset a larger pool of members than the first change did. It makes more sense to go back to DBD.

Personally I can't think of a single approach that would have satisfied the need to allow reservations on one phone call, decreased phone calls overall, preserved the same availability as was found under DBD and did not give priority to a length of stay while also preserving the essence of what most people feel DVC is all about. I can't even think of a given system that would have made this group happy other than leaving it the way it was.

Well then, maybe they should go back to the way it was. Like they did with the glasses.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Again, the system itself was completely fair under the old policy because all rooms were open to everyone on the first possible day of booking.

Under the new policy if you try to book AKV concierge on the first day you are allowed to book, without walking, those rooms may be gone even before MS opens.

That's why the new system is not fair, and the reason for walking.

MG

I swore off this thread for the past week, and I see now that I came back, everyone is still saying the same things...MG is SO correct. WHY would the old system not be fair? EVERYONE has the same opportunity with the old system. The new one can't be fair unless EVERYONE can book whenever they want. I just hope the powers that be at DVC see this and change it back!

 

[jade1]

Walking a reservation, "walks" over other members of the program.
It is sad, but I won't let the system "make" me do something I know is not right. YMMV

Taking Thanksgiving with a 7 day ressie the Friday before walks over members as well. How many Teachers or families with kids will be shut out of a 4 day Holiday off because of that? Sorry-this is our new system.

I prefer blackouts or going back to the old system, but will use the tools provided.

 

[jdg345]

NO, the only issue I really have with the new system is "Premier" weeks (and I include Thanksgiving even though I never go then-I have a thing for teachers and families with kids). I actually think it is fine for the other 49 weeks out of the year.

NY week 2009 1BR at BCV will require 350 points (so no 150 plus 150 borrowed is not enough). We need a 2BR wich will require 462 points. I have no intention in using all of our points for 1 week every 3 years. I do however intend to have enough BCV points to reserve this week (walking or not) by selling VWL and adding on BCV.

Oh, I gotcha ... what a mess this new system is making of things.

 

[jdg345]

I'm sorry, but having to get someone to cover your shift so you can call early enough to get a ressie is absolutely insane. Besides, not everyone has that option.

The new system might not be "fair," but the old one wasn't either.

If you don't want to use the word 'fair', that's fine ... but what would you prefer:

A system that allows all inventory to be available at 9am or
A system where you are competing for reduced inventory at 9am?

In the first case, even if you can't call in the morning, you're giving up what? A few hours?

In the second case, if you can't call in the morning, you're giving up over 7 days.

I just don't understand how those who did not like DBD because they could not or would not call at 9am feel that this system is somehow better when in reality this new system puts them days behind people 'in line' versus a few hours.

 

[jade1]

I'm not commenting on the fairness so much as the ripple effects that could be created if walking becomes widespread. Also, MS has a history of shutting down what they consider abuse of the system in ways that hurt members who never participated, for example, the decision to limit point transfers to once per UY to put a stop to the large numbers of point transfers made by a small subset of members.

I hear ya, and I didn't mean to point the "lack of fairness" of your posts content out to just you-it is a great point, but we are stuck with it for now.

Do you have an opinion on the blackout weeks? I feel the walking will be wide spread the 3 holiday weeks, and not so much the rest-maybe thats way off? You only beef up MS 6 weeks a year (11/7), and this system likely is fine the rest of the year IMO.

 

[Laurabearz]

I would prefer to see black out days, where you would HAVE to call DBD or book from the LAST day of your reservation (aka the old system) for certain times of the year over having to cancel and rebook if you cancel/add days.


edited to add...

Of course I would prefer the OLD system ,but if we are stuck with this new method....

 

[mmcguire]

What I did yesterday & today would look like "walking" on the surface, but was actually an needed due to a change in plans.

We are taking my DDad and DB and his family with us next June. We only had enough pts for 6 nights in a 2BR + studio, so we all agreed to spend one additional night at a value. Initially, everyone wanted spend the LAST night at the value, figuring we'd be at the parks late that night & just needed a place to lay our heads.

After I called and made our ressie yesterday, we all got to talking about it, and decided we'd rather stay at the value the FIRST night instead since we probably wouldn't go to the parks the last day, and could enjoy SAB. I had to call this morning and "walk" my reservations up by one day.

Rules to prevent "walking" could have easily prevented us from making this adjustment. I'm not sure how something can be put in place to prevent abuse while still being flexible enough to allow for reasonable adjustments such as this.