New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[Ragtime Gal]

Yup ... and as soon as you walk that reservation a few months forward, you've effectively potentially boxed out someone with Home Resort Priority using non-home-resort points as that room has been out of inventory during the whole period of time.

Again, no. You can only ever be 7 months and one week ahead. No matter how much you walk, you will never be more ahead that that. A home-resort user can come in an get the day you haven't yet been able to book before you can book it, walking or not. It's not as if by walking you are taking the room out of commission as if you would be at 11 months.

 

[jdg345]

Um, long-term walking doesn't work so well for a 7 month situation. That eighth day that you can't book right now can already be booked by an owner of that resort. It's only when booking within your own resort that it makes the most sense. Not saying it makes no sense, but you just have to realize that a ton of people can swoop in on you anyway.

But if it's walked long enough, the 1st day someone tries to book that room (at their 11 months), the room would already have been locked and out of inventory for X months previous.

EDIT: nvm, I see what you're saying. This would only work if I had the points to book the stay continguous, not walk it. And even that wouldn't work unless I had multiple staggered reservations as I believe there is a 30 day limit?

 

[DVC Grandpa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyRy
Finally touched base with Joy. She pretty much reiterate what we've heard already - that a survey was done of members and they didn't want to call DBD (which she acknowledge they did not have to) so that was the reason for the change. BUT now we are still calling DBD if we have more than seven days (in reality people can still just make one phone call if they choose.)

This is a “flip flop”. When I talked to Joy a week or so ago, I asked her “point blank” just where they got the “overwhelming response” and I was told it was from comments to the CM’s who make the reservations and that there was no formal survey sent to members.

 

[TyRy]

I'd like to know when and how this survey went out. I certainly didn't get one. Not in email, not by phone, not when calling MS, not in my 'Welcome Home' package (of which I have received quite a few every year), not during checkin, not during checkout, not in any 'form' left in my room, and certainly not in my mailbox.

This is a “flip flop”. When I talked to Joy a week or so ago, I asked her “point blank” just where they got the “overwhelming response” and I was told it was from comments to the CM’s who make the reservations and that there was no formal survey sent to members.

That was the one thing I forgot to ask (as I was pressed for time and it was turning into a long phonecall) was where this "survey" had taken place...I know I never saw one. Maybe I'll try and find out and see if she'll call me back. Or perhaps the next person that gets the phone call will be able to tell us.

 

[Dean]

Huh??
The old system was perfectly fair. As others have stated, certain people may have to get up earlier in the morning, or get someone to cover their shift at work so they can make the phone call, but the SYSTEM itself gave exactly equal opportunity to every Member to book a ressie.

The new system can not say that. That is not an opinion..

MG

Actually every single member has the same options under the new system as every other one subject to the amount of effort they want to put in and the number of points they own. Still, I think DVC will put an end to "walking" fairly quickly one way or another, likely by making changes a cancellation and rebooking. And while it may or may not be that every day is available to the same degree on the day you call, that is not anywhere near my definition of "fairness". DVC could set it up so members who owned over 1000 points had a full month extra to book and I still wouldn't think it was unfair, just that the ball was in my court.

This is all based on the assumption that SSR owners hate the place and don't want to stay there, ever, though.

Not at all. It's simply based on the apparent fact that a larger % of SSR owners plan (and will) use the points at the 7 month window to trade out to higher demand options than the smaller resorts owners will to trade to SSR. Given it's size, even a couple of % difference would accomplish the impact I've suggested though it's likely at least a 10-20% difference. Ultimately it does require the other owners in question (BCV, BWV, AKV, & VWL) to WANT to trade to SSR just as much as the reverse.

That said, I think the developers points are really what are pushing the limits at 7 months. People bought AKV and ended up with SSR-based Developers points to flood into the system at 7 months.

Ultimately maybe. It does take time for the effects to trickle down (or up in this case) so any impact the developer points have will likely take 1-2 years to be felt and given the SSR issue, it's unlikely they'll have much additional affect beyond that of SSR as they've likely already saturated the market.

 

[Brian Noble]

Ultimately it does require the other owners in question (BCV, BWV, AKV, & VWL) to WANT to trade to SSR just as much as the reverse.

There are a few other ways out. For example, when a "small resort" owner wants to exchange via Interval, or use the Disney collection, you could devote SSR inventory rather than "small-resort" inventory to cover the use.

 

[Dean]

I don't want Flexibility, I like the new system. It keeps my dues lower.
I don't use the Internet, I want pay per day. It keeps my dues lower.
I don't use Valet, make DVC members pay to park. It keeps my dues lower.
I don't use Bell Services, get rid of it. It keeps my dues lower.

etc, etc.

Those are decisions that every system must struggle with. Where to fund for the items that many will use but not everyone, where to draw the line and what is the relative cost for each. The towel policy is a perfect DVC example of where a few messed it up for everyone. I do think you'll see free valet parking go away and likely at some point, free parking in general for WDW resorts at least.

With the way the current system operates, this is completely wrong. If you have a group of days in your WL, you need all days to be available to trigger. You also need all those days to be available when the "WL Check" process runs -- it's not automatic. So, you could get end up with a situation where all the rooms are available for a moment and someone calls in and grabs one or more of the rooms before the WL Check runs and you're out of luck. How is that 'fair' ? If I WL weeks before, and you just happened to call today and grab the room before my WL had a chance to fill?

The risks inherent in the WL have not changed in that if they release the days to inventory and don't hold them for the WL, someone may get it ahead of the WL. I guess I didn't do a good job of stating the point. The point was that under the old system there were two ways to WL, DBD and as a single group. My point was that compared to the old system, it is likely easier to get the entire WL than before if you listed it as one single WL.

 

[Ragtime Gal]

But if it's walked long enough, the 1st day someone tries to book that room (at their 11 months), the room would already have been locked and out of inventory for X months previous.

EDIT: nvm, I see what you're saying. This would only work if I had the points to book the stay continguous, not walk it. And even that wouldn't work unless I had multiple staggered reservations as I believe there is a 30 day limit?

If you are a non-home booker, you can only reserve any room 7 months and 7 days prior. (Any new day you are able to book would never be more than 7 months and 7 days later than today's date.) For instance, today you could book for a check-in of February 13th and are allowed 7 days of reservations, which would put you at a check-out of February 20th. You cannot book for February 21st, no matter how many points you have and how long you have been walking, as you are only allowed 7 days. However, someone who owns at that resort can call today and book that February 21st right out from under you.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The new system is easier for new members to comprehend, is simpler to use, eliminates the anxiety over feeling you must book DBD, and is fair enough. There is no perfect system that is perfectly fair to everyone while still being simple and easy to use. The new system strikes a good balance, IMO.

OMG, I can't believe how many posts this thread has gotten!

I just don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand the old DBD method.
In addition, perhaps it's fair enough for your booking patterns, but not other Members.
A beach cootage, where there's only 6, may be difficult. Same can be said about AKV concierge with only 5 2br villas.

MG

 

[Dean]

what is wrong with members wanting what they bought their points for, you don't seem to care what impact it has on you, yet you seem to belittle any owners who do care.

I certainly haven't intentionally belittled anyone but would call into question the thought process that would suggest things can't change. I have no problem with anyone saying they selfishly want it not to change because they feel their chances are better under the old system, at least that would be honest. But to argue that the system couldn't change because it was one way when one bought or that it affects their personal chances is a bit naive and unrealistic IMO.

There are a few other ways out. For example, when a "small resort" owner wants to exchange via Interval, or use the Disney collection, you could devote SSR inventory rather than "small-resort" inventory to cover the use.

Actually DVC normally does this and has for 8-9 years or so along with somewhat avoiding the higher demand times in general. But as more and more people look to trade (% slowly goes up as does the number of members) they will not be able to compensate totally. But from a DVC standpoint there has to be time freed up at the in demand resorts enough to satisfy the demand.

 

[jdg345]

Those are decisions that every system must struggle with. Where to fund for the items that many will use but not everyone, where to draw the line and what is the relative cost for each. The towel policy is a perfect DVC example of where a few messed it up for everyone. I do think you'll see free valet parking go away and likely at some point, free parking in general for WDW resorts at least.

What was the deal with the Towel Policy? Why the Parking going away? Is it that you feel that DVC is making enough money now that they can cut back on some of the perks they are offering?

The risks inherent in the WL have not changed in that if they release the days to inventory and don't hold them for the WL, someone may get it ahead of the WL. I guess I didn't do a good job of stating the point. The point was that under the old system there were two ways to WL, DBD and as a single group. My point was that compared to the old system, it is likely easier to get the entire WL than before if you listed it as one single WL.

Again, I disagree with this. I think it's tougher to get the entire WL. By WL'ing DBD, I could get a day here and there from different members adjusting their reservations or switching out a whole period. With the new 'Contiguous WL' policy, someone that has every single day I have needs to give them up (or someone's collectively, at the same time) in order for my WL to fill. Sure, I'd get them all in one fell swoop, but that chances of that happening versus getting a day here and there over the course of a few weeks or months I would think are significantly lower.

We may just need to agree to disagree here.

 

[jdg345]

If you are a non-home booker, you can only reserve any room 7 months and 7 days prior. (Any new day you are able to book would never be more than 7 months and 7 days later than today's date.) For instance, today you could book for a check-in of February 13th and are allowed 7 days of reservations, which would put you at a check-out of February 20th. You cannot book for February 21st, no matter how many points you have and how long you have been walking, as you are only allowed 7 days. However, someone who owns at that resort can call today and book that February 21st right out from under you.

Yes ... makes sense for the 7 month windows though.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Actually every single member has the same options under the new system as every other one subject to the amount of effort they want to put in and the number of points they own.

I am not buying this.
Please explain how the 25 point add on at AKV Member can compete for a concierge night to do the Sunrise Safari?

MG

 

[jade1]

How many VWL points are ya selling? We're thinking we need to add a few more.

150. October. Just not for a couple months as I am starting a new business. Then we will buy 150 BCV to beef up the old 7 day ressie power and start walkin, split stays will not work for premier weeks anymore.

 

[Dean]

What was the deal with the Towel Policy? Why the Parking going away? Is it that you feel that DVC is making enough money now that they can cut back on some of the perks they are offering?

DVC instituted charges for towel packs and extra supplies simply related to cost and an abuse of a relative minority, that is fact. My reference to parking was that most people don't valet and that most resort destinations such as WDW charge for parking in general, not necessarily a prediction of what will come, it may or may not. It certainly would be an easy target for revenue if they so chose. Still the main point was that for each and every situation that has cost involved, the system must make an active decision whether to distribute that cost to all owners or just those that use it. Usually this is made based on the significance of the cost vs the number that use a given option. If it's a high cost item with relatively little volume discounts and only a small percent take advantage, the system would be nuts to distribute that cost to everyone. Here's an example. There are resorts that include free golf. Obviously not everyone golf's but often everyone pays. Some of the resorts I know at HH pay upward of $400 per week extra for this option where for some lessor demand areas like Williamsburg, the costs are dramatically less.

I am not buying this.
Please explain how the 25 point add on at AKV Member can compete for a concierge night to do the Sunrise Safari?

MG

We've already established that individual circumstances should not affect the decision, I'd include number of points and financial abilities in that arena. I've also already stated that it is my opinion that if having more points gives you more options, the that is OK, obviously you disagree and that is fine.

 

[jarestel]

I could see that, but I also plan to now sell VWL and buy more BCV points to have more available for the new policy. How do you know there are not fewer members with more points as well?

I don't know this at all. The point was simply to illustrate that the number of owners at a given resort is not a constant number, unlike total number of points, number of reservation days, etc...

 

[Maistre Gracey]

We've already established that individual circumstances should not affect the decision, I'd include number of points and financial abilities in that arena. I've also already stated that it is my opinion that if having more points gives you more options, the that is OK, obviously you disagree and that is fine.

Well, you didn't establish anything with me...
You said the new system is just as fair as the old.
I just pointed out where it's not.

I think that's pretty definitive.

MG

 

[jarestel]

my way to a Christmas 2009 stay ...

Too funny!!!

 

[keishashadow]

Keishashadow:

Sitting over coffee this morning and reviewing posts on this thread my husband and I came up with a new DVC theme song. It is based on the new Playstation, Xbox, WII video game that just released. It is Guitar Hero, the Aerosmith edition and the new DVC theme song would be Aerosmith's "Walk This Way"!!!!

We thought it could replace "When You Wish Upon a Star" but feel that those of us who travel during peak travel times and those who own multiple contracts/resorts may be doing a lot more wishing when we are making reservations that for years and years we have had little to no difficulty making DBD at the 11 month or 7 month booking window.

Enjoy your Sunday everyone with family and friends.

maminnie

Dream On indeed

Dean,

I will ask again. What exactly is the established notion of fairness that justifies the new system? The new system might be EFFICIENT (according to some measures), but there is no established notion of fairness that can be used to defend the approach taken by the new system. I will stand corrected if you can provide one.

ala beauty, fairness & efficiency is in the eye of the beholder

Huh??
The old system was perfectly fair. As others have stated, certain people may have to get up earlier in the morning, or get someone to cover their shift at work so they can make the phone call, but the SYSTEM itself gave exactly equal opportunity to every Member to book a ressie.

The new system can not say that. That is not an opinion..

MG

Agree, every member had the opportunity to confirm to EST time & call day-by-day in the past. Not the idea scenario for west coast members, yet how many of us wake up @ absurdly early times to catch their flights to MCO?

Many of us learned the "in's & out's" as to increasing the likelihood of gaining (not gaming) the ressie we desire here (as opposed to reading it in the newsleter); we expended a bit of effort to search and find out what would tip the odds in our favour ...all the while by following the established guidelines

It gives me cold comfort to be told that MS will monitor abuse of new system, not when i continue to see prime weeks rented on eBay.

I hope this is a desperate joke. All I can say is if reservations start with this type of a walk or gallop, then I truly hope Member Services disconnects the 800 number. I know we are only paying a certain percentage, but if people are going to abuse the system with a Gallop, then it needs to cost them (flame suit on) I am not for the new system, I think it is unfair, I stated so pages ago. This new system had to be put into place by Disney management that did not have a clue as to the abuse that can take place. I have my favorite time and place to stay, it is a hard sought after time and location, I am not happy with this new system... I have booked a new reservation under it for a regular stay at a regular time, it was very nice and easy to do so. I think for the normal times and locations this new system will work fine, it is for the Peak season or Concierge (all year) where the problem lies.

Wonder why they didn't follow suit as to WDTC . It would be an much simpler way to try & cut down on the number of unnecessary phone calls as opposed to revamping the entire system

Recaped issue to DH, he was nonpulsed; mentioned the fact that we lately have had points banked. His suggestion, book 1 week prior to planned trip, then the 2nd trip. Later cancelling one or the other, switching out both days (eliminating some, if not all of the 1st ressie) & the UY points as i have done in the past before the cancellation periods begin. Really hope that switching out UY points @ 7 month window will still be allowed!

Will state that i am still tinkering with October trip, decided to eliminate 2 nights @ AKV & stay onsite @ Universal's Portofino Bay to obtain the FOTL perc . Just have to wonder if this would violate the new system since i'll be knocking off the Saturday & Sunday I booked 7 months ago.

 

[Dean]

Well, you didn't establish anything with me...
You said the new system is just as fair as the old.
I just pointed out where it's not.

I think that's pretty definitive.

MG

And likewise so I guess we have no common ground to discuss either option. Short of some legal or encyclopedic reference to the contrary we'll just have to agree to disagree.