New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[dvcdisney]

No way to do so, not reasonable given that MS does other things besides just reservations at 11 months out and likely something that would create many other complaints. Their stated goal was to reduce phone calls and the need for DBD bookings both.

And that's why I suggested only 1 call per membership per UY because in essence, those members who feel that they need to call DBD will only do it when necessary. Since they can only do it once, they'll choose the peak season period.

However, I do admit, then it doesn't stop the others who do not go at peak season and still call DBD. But this could have been a transition.

If they wanted to eliminate the NEED for DBD, then they would implement a separate policy for the peak periods. But if they wanted to eliminate DBD all together, then a gradual transition may have assisted members into "accepting" this new policy. JMO.

 

[dianeschlicht]

And that's why I suggested only 1 call per membership per UY because in essence, those members who feel that they need to call DBD will only do it when necessary. Since they can only do it once, they'll choose the peak season period.

However, I do admit, then it doesn't stop the others who do not go at peak season and still call DBD. But this could have been a transition.

If they wanted to eliminate the NEED for DBD, then they would implement a separate policy for the peak periods. But if they wanted to eliminate DBD all together, then a gradual transition may have assisted members into "accepting" this new policy. JMO.

I don't know what you said initially, but if you are saying one call per member per use year, where is the program flexibility? If you are saying they can only make one DBD reservation a year, how are they going to track that? It seems to be that would make for a LOT of additional bookkeeping that the program doesn't currently track, and seems like an inefficient use of a programmer's time to create.

 

[jdg345]

You completely missed the point. The point was that if Sally called at her 11 month window and was say checking in on Thursday and leaving Monday on a long weekend, and Fred and Joe called at their 11 month window trying to check in on a Friday, then Fred and Joe would be out of luck for that particular room, because Sally is in it. Now say Tina calls on Monday, she would have preference for that room over Fred and Joe, who tried to call earlier.

You have to look at the checkout date to see when rooms are coming on line. It is these points in which one will be able to make reservations. My point was that not all checkouts will be on Friday or Saturday, making the previous posters arguement moot.

It's still not an equal footing. Yes, people will be checking out, but you might have people checking in on Wednesday/Thursday for rooms they don't need in order to secure the next week. Do you know what percentage of checkouts occur on Thurs vs Friday vs Saturday? It seems that many reservations take place in that Sun - Thurs window. This is backed up by anecdotal evidence in that Fri/Sat tend to be 'easier' days to get, even during peak times, where the other days are booked solid. So if I want to book next week arriving Sunday, I can start trying as early as the previous Friday (9 days before) trying to get my continguous stay. The chances of me getting a reservation starting Fri/Sat are certain higher if I book the entire week than if I wait until Sunday.

I realize your point, and that is people will be checking out during that week sometime. My point is, not everyone will be, so again, we're competing for less than a full inventory of rooms.

 

[pilferk]

It's still not an equal footing. Yes, people will be checking out, but you might have people checking in on Wednesday/Thursday for rooms they don't need in order to secure the next week. Do you know what percentage of checkouts occur on Thurs vs Friday vs Saturday? It seems that many reservations take place in that Sun - Thurs window. This is backed up by anecdotal evidence in that Fri/Sat tend to be 'easier' days to get, even during peak times, where the other days are booked solid. So if I want to book next week arriving Sunday, I can start trying as early as the previous Friday (9 days before) trying to get my continguous stay. The chances of me getting a reservation starting Fri/Sat are certain higher if I book the entire week than if I wait until Sunday.

I realize your point, and that is people will be checking out during that week sometime. My point is, not everyone will be, so again, we're competing for less than a full inventory of rooms.

So far the poll I put up seems to overwhelmingly show that Sunday is the "favorite day" to check in.

Granted, it's not a great sample (size or set), but it's at least noteworthy.

I'm going to put up the "typical length of stay" poll once we hit 70 to 100 responses in the current poll.....

 

[jdg345]

My wholly unfounded, speculative suspicion is that we're going to see a LOT more of this. I completely allow that I could be wrong...but I think a LOT of owners are going to come to this conclusion, warrented or not: That walking is NECESSARY (like DBD was necessary) to get what they want.

Exactly! Any 'culture' that contributed to DBD is going to do the same with Walking. It might not be necessary, but those that want to do everything they can, within the rules, to get their desired dates and categories are going to do so. That was the case with DBD as well ... people did not want to leave it up to chance and say, "Well, maybe if I would have booked DBD, this would have worked."

Even some members in this thread that have said they have no intention of walking have also said that if they get locked out of something, they may rethink it.

And these forums are a wealth of information. As soon as one person gets locked out (and someone already did), then people will begin to lean that way to help give themselves the best odds.

It's why I don't understand why all those DBD haters felt it wasn't fair for someone to book a few hours before them, but feel it's fine for someone to book more than a week ahead of them.

 

[jdg345]

And that's why I suggested only 1 call per membership per UY because in essence, those members who feel that they need to call DBD will only do it when necessary. Since they can only do it once, they'll choose the peak season period.

However, I do admit, then it doesn't stop the others who do not go at peak season and still call DBD. But this could have been a transition.

If they wanted to eliminate the NEED for DBD, then they would implement a separate policy for the peak periods. But if they wanted to eliminate DBD all together, then a gradual transition may have assisted members into "accepting" this new policy. JMO.

IMO, I think this would be very difficult to track. How are they going to know that you used your one DBD call for the UY? What about someone extending a day or two because they just found out they have a few extra days off? What if you need more than one room because you're booking an extended trip? What changes would need to be made to the booking system to track and account for this? And at what costs?

I maintain: Instead of throwing all this good money after bad, just throw money into implementing online booking. It's been requested, overwhelmingly, hasn't it? And it would certainly cut down on call volume.

Does anyone else find it strange that SSR Booking Categories seem to be an 'overwhelming request' as does 'online booking' ... yet we suddenly have this new reservation policy?

 

[jdg345]

I've put up a poll to collect a bit of information. I know it's not statistically or scientifically relevant, but it might be a good jumping off point for further conversations:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1880123

Once that one has run it's course, I'm going to put up another about "typical" length of stay, and finally one asking what your "new preferred check in day of the week" will be.

Great!

I'm off to vote!

 

[Kathi OD]

The more I'm thinking about this issue, the more I believe all Disney needed to do was abolish the practice of booking DBD under the old system. IMO, it is equal to what walking will be, just a way to beat the system in order to get what you personally want.

I'd be willing to bet that the average DVC owner, who is not a member of a Disney-related internet site, has never thought about booking their ressie DBD under the old system or walking it under the new system. I've never seen anything in writing from Disney that endorses either policy. While some CMs might have suggested the practice, that doesn't mean that its use was endorsed or intended by management. Furhtermore, it isn't until someone starts publicizing the ability to take advantage of such loopholes that these practices become a problem.

 

[margaretCT]

I've been following this thread off and on and I've seen references to a a "walking reservation", but I can't seem to find the definition!

Is it where an owner has enough points in one use year, no banking or borrowing, to make a reservation, say, Friday to Friday, call back two days later and make a reservation Monday to Friday, and then cancel the first Friday to Friday reservation?

I assume you can't make a Friday to Friday reservation and then call back two days later and cancel Friday and Saturday night?

Thanks in advance.

Margaret in CT

 

[pilferk]

I've been following this thread off and on and I've seen references to a a "walking reservation", but I can't seem to find the definition!

Is it where an owner has enough points in one use year, no banking or borrowing, to make a reservation, say, Friday to Friday, call back two days later and make a reservation Monday to Friday, and then cancel the first Friday to Friday reservation?

I assume you can't make a Friday to Friday reservation and then call back two days later and cancel Friday and Saturday night?

Thanks in advance.

Margaret in CT

Sort of.

It's when you have enough points to book Friday to Friday. Then, a day (or two, or three....because of the way the system is set up, so long as you make the call within 6 days of your first one, your room is still being "held") later you call and extend the reservation, making it Friday to the following Saturday...then cancel the Friday, thereby making it Saturday to Saturday. You can cancel single days, rather than the whole reservation. And because the reported way the system works (from check in date), nobody can "touch" the day you're adding on until 7 days after you reserve it

You can pretty much "move" the check in and check out days forward (thus "walking it") before anyone else has access to the inventory.

I could make a reservation, today, for 11 months + 7 days from today...and then "walk it" all the way into December of 2009 or, heck, December of 2042 if I wanted to (and the policy didn't change).

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I've been following this thread off and on and I've seen references to a a "walking reservation", but I can't seem to find the definition!

Is it where an owner has enough points in one use year, no banking or borrowing, to make a reservation, say, Friday to Friday, call back two days later and make a reservation Monday to Friday, and then cancel the first Friday to Friday reservation?

I assume you can't make a Friday to Friday reservation and then call back two days later and cancel Friday and Saturday night?

Thanks in advance.

Margaret in CT

Under the current rules, you can indeed cancel Fri & Sat night with no penalty. Many cancelled nigths under the old booking policy if they found that, for example, flights were cheaper if they arrived on Sunday.

I, for one, think that many who booked DBD will do some walking of their reservation. Say, you want to go sometime after Thanksgiving but before Christmas and stay 11 nights. I think many people will start at least for the earliest night that works for them, just in case that night is not available. Once they are successful in getting any reservation, they may walk the reservation forward to the days that work the best for them.

For example, you call to book the Sun after Thanksgiving and the next 7 nights. No availability. So you call the next day for Mondy. No go. Then for Tue. Again, no go. Finally, when you call for Wed, you can book the next 7 nights. While you could live with that as the arrival date, you would rather arrive on a Sun. So you walk forward, cancelling Wed-Sat nights as you go, until your arrival day is the following Sun.

It is not a great leap from that scenario to think that you might start with trying to reserve 7 nights with only the 7th night being a day that works for you and then walking forward from there. In my example, you call for the Mon before Thanksgiving in order to make sure you secure the Sun after Thanksgiving.

-- Suzanne

 

[margaretCT]

Ahh, now I get it. Thanks.

If I wanted Sunday through Thursday, 5 nights, check-out on Friday:

Call #1: Book Friday through Tuesday.
Call #2: Next day, cancel Friday, add Wednesday.
Call #3: Next day, cancel Saturday, add Thursday, check out on Friday.

Hopefully I won't need to do this since I've only done day be day booking twice since 1993, but I just wanted to understand it.

 

[jdg345]

So far the poll I put up seems to overwhelmingly show that Sunday is the "favorite day" to check in.

Granted, it's not a great sample (size or set), but it's at least noteworthy.

I'm going to put up the "typical length of stay" poll once we hit 70 to 100 responses in the current poll.....

Very interesting! It seems Thu/Fri/Sat would be the best days to begin walking as they have the lowest occurrence of checkins. That would really make sense, I guess. Saturday is only one day of high points, and folks can travel by air arriving Fri/Sat. Many have stated they arrive Friday night, stay offsite as it's just a bed to sleep in, and then check in the following Saturday to save points.

Thursday makes sense too, as it is only one night of inexpensive points, followed by two subsequent high point nights ... if staying on cash, it's easier to do so for the duration I would think (same with staying offsite).

 

[pilferk]

Very interesting! It seems Thu/Fri/Sat would be the best days to begin walking as they have the lowest occurrence of checkins. That would really make sense, I guess. Saturday is only one day of high points, and folks can travel by air arriving Fri/Sat. Many have stated they arrive Friday night, stay offsite as it's just a bed to sleep in, and then check in the following Saturday to save points.

Thursday makes sense too, as it is only one night of inexpensive points, followed by two subsequent high point nights ... if staying on cash, it's easier to do so for the duration I would think (same with staying offsite).

I'd say Friday and Saturday, if the current pattern carried over to the "new" system....but probably MOSTLY Friday if your intention is "walking".

Here's what I posted over there by way of explanation:


If the most popular day to check in is Sunday, that FRIDAY is actually going to be the "easiest" day to call and get what you want. The reason I suspect that is that I'm assuming (and I have NO data to back it up) that most people stay 6 or 7 nights. That means those checking in on Sunday are likely checking out on Friday or Saturday. Given the weekend night "premium" on points, my wholly unfounded suspicion is they're checking out on Friday. So if you're checking IN on a Friday, all that inventory opens up. Likewise, because Friday is a "light" check in day (also due to the 'weekend premium'), Saturday looks like it will probably give you a decent shot.

Likewise, if you're checking in Monday - Thursday, you're likely going to have a more difficult time. Less inventory is probably opening up (again, based on my wholly unfounded assumption on length of stay) and more of it is "spoken for" by the Sunday crowd.

Sunday stays...you're going to be competing JUST like in DBD with a large pool of the membership all trying to get at inventory.

That's my hypothesis right now....we'll see how this poll, and the other polls, eventually play out.

 

[Doctor P]

The more I'm thinking about this issue, the more I believe all Disney needed to do was abolish the practice of booking DBD under the old system. IMO, it is equal to what walking will be, just a way to beat the system in order to get what you personally want.

I'd be willing to bet that the average DVC owner, who is not a member of a Disney-related internet site, has never thought about booking their ressie DBD under the old system or walking it under the new system. I've never seen anything in writing from Disney that endorses either policy. While some CMs might have suggested the practice, that doesn't mean that its use was endorsed or intended by management. Furhtermore, it isn't until someone starts publicizing the ability to take advantage of such loopholes that these practices become a problem.

I wholeheartedly agree. They could have taken care of this whole mess (or certainly most of it) by simply enforcing a policy that reservations would only be accepted based on the checkout date of your trip and that day-by-day reservations would not be allowed (i.e., no adding on to the end of one's trip until some appropriate time period had passed--say 14 days). I would potentially be disadvantaged by this policy in terms of the way we have tended to book DBD, but I think this policy would be both fair and in compliance with the POS as well. It would also negate walking reservations (adding on, BTW, is not a walking reservation--a walking reservation has a simultaneous cancellation on the front end).

 

[pilferk]

I've put up the typical length of stay poll:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1880407

 

[waltfan1957]

And that's why I suggested only 1 call per membership per UY because in essence, those members who feel that they need to call DBD will only do it when necessary. Since they can only do it once, they'll choose the peak season period.

hows that work if you want three weeks

 

[jdg345]

The more I'm thinking about this issue, the more I believe all Disney needed to do was abolish the practice of booking DBD under the old system. IMO, it is equal to what walking will be, just a way to beat the system in order to get what you personally want.

I'd be willing to bet that the average DVC owner, who is not a member of a Disney-related internet site, has never thought about booking their ressie DBD under the old system or walking it under the new system. I've never seen anything in writing from Disney that endorses either policy. While some CMs might have suggested the practice, that doesn't mean that its use was endorsed or intended by management. Furhtermore, it isn't until someone starts publicizing the ability to take advantage of such loopholes that these practices become a problem.

It depends on whether or not you saw DBD as an issue that created an inequity in the system or not. If you thought DBD was unfair because it gave someone several hours of time to book before you, then the new policy -- without walking -- should be ultra unfair as now it gives someone several days of time to book before you.

As has been said by many, people will continue to leverage the system in ways that benefit them. These people are all working within the rules put forth by DVC. Some may consider it gaming or working the system ... others will see it as using their situation to their advantage. The common thread seems to be that those that see it as 'cheating' are those that, for whatever reason, cannot or choose not to do it -- as was the case with DBD.

So ... here we are ... again. Are people going to complain about DBD with the new policy? If so, then the new policy is ultimately pointless as it cannot stand alone.

 

[dvcdisney]

I don't know what you said initially, but if you are saying one call per member per use year, where is the program flexibility? If you are saying they can only make one DBD reservation a year, how are they going to track that? It seems to be that would make for a LOT of additional bookkeeping that the program doesn't currently track, and seems like an inefficient use of a programmer's time to create.

Sorry, I mean 1 DBD set of calls per membership per use year.

Actually I started typing out solutions and I realized that this would again create more problems. So, this doesn't seem feasible.

However, I was just suggesting that there may have been some transitions between the old and the new system. To be honest, I don't think that a transitions is required in my circumstance, but I think it would be better for those that routinely do DBD.

Although, I do still have an issue with the new system not being "fair" (again, my definition of fair may be different from some) to all the members.

However, I do see Dean's point about what is best for the WHOLE system. I just don't agree that it has anything to do with fairness. I think it has everything to do with what's best to the overall membership and that in itself is important as well. But obviously, as Dean has said, we have to agree to disagree on the point of fairness.

I do however agree with those who state that circumstances have nothing to do with how the system should work. Everyone has different reasons why they can or cannot call at a certain time or only go on vacation during a certain time of the year. I think if the system took everyone's situation in mind, it would be a mess. And that in itself in NOT FAIR. (Please keep in mind that I truly emphathize with those who can only vacation at a certain time of the year or have to juggle schedules in order to make any vacation possible. We do have some restrictions with school and work and what we find is that we have to do what we have to do and the system shouldn't change because of us or anyone else. ) So with this in mind, I don't believe the changes took place because of complaints, I, as many people, believe it's all about cost cutting.

And I have resigned in believing the only reason for the change is that it's significantly affecting their "bottom line". And as many businesses, cost and profit margins are on the top of their list.

 

[dvcdisney]

hows that work if you want three weeks

My suggestion, athough it doesn't seem quite feasible since there would be so many complaints, is that if someone found it necessary to call DBD, they will only be allowed to do it for one vacation.

That means, if you are staying for 3 weeks on that same vacation (I suppose I should have mentioned - continous vacation), then you can call DBD for each of the days for 3 weeks (if you want).

And that's my point, it's your option, it doesn't mean you have to. And that's what's a little annoying about what the website states. It insinuates that everyone was REQUIRED to call DBD and thus have to piece their reservations together. I don't believe anyone was required to do anything. You can book when you want to book. Just because they had the 11/7 months priority doesn't mean that everyone had to book then.

I never did DBD until I was told by MS that I should. I had always booked BCV for October every year since we joined and never had a problem calling at 11 months and even 10 months. Because of the increasing popularity of the F&W festival, I called two years ago and did not get my BCV at 11 months, That was quite surprising to mean. So MS had explained that it has been increasing busy and so I would have to call DBD since there are few 1 bedrooms (which by the way, I didn't think was in high demand). Anyways, last year I decided to call DBD for it and got it. So, did I think it was unnecessary? NO, because I was not able to get it previous and now I think I have to call DBD to get this particular reservation. And last year when AKV had opened, I was told that it's best to call DBD to get the 1 bedroom Standard room since there were very few at the time, so I did. I don't think I did it unnecessarily since MS had suggested it and of course, I would be more inclined to believe them with their experience.

Sorry, off topic. Anyways, I think if you had a 3 week vacation at the time you think is peak time and you will not be able to get the rooms any other way, I think you should be able to call DBD for all the days. And it doesn't take that long, the first call took at most 5-10 minutes and the rest of my DBD calls were almost instant. I told them I want to add a day, they looked at the reservation and said, it's done! No long delays, no need to get names etc, just add a day and link.

Although, I would prefer online reservations, I can see so many complaints with that also. I think those who want it should and those who want to call MS, they should have that option as well, thereby decreasing the number of calls. I, as with many others, could book our own rooms without bothering MS. I think they should be there for us in case there are problems, and I'm sure they'll be problems with the system. But at least it gives others like myself the opportunity to do it ourselves and not waste anyone else's time.