New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[jarestel]

End of January is typically very slow, so it's not a great indicator of what will happen with this new system. And also, this was the first day for this new booking system, so of course all the nights would be available.

Ah, I see. Whenever the new system works to someone's advantage, it's going to be spun as because they are booking at slow periods or during times when DBD just wasn't required. Interesting...

 

[idratherbeinwdw]

End of January is typically very slow, so it's not a great indicator of what will happen with this new system. .

So it seems we agree that unless it's a very busy time of the year most folks are going to get what they want. Which has probably always been the case, and much of the DBD calling was a waste of resources. Hence, the change.

I understand why some people are nervous. As has already been posted, for those "in the know" and determined, it was basically a shoo in to get anywhere at any time. If it will be harder to get those highly desireable times/accommodations with this new change remains to be seen.

 

[jdg345]

Ah, I see. Whenever the new system works to someone's advantage, it's going to be spun as because they are booking at slow periods or during times when DBD just wasn't required. Interesting...

I think it is too tough to call at this juncture. It could be due to slow times, it could be due to the fact that the membership that knows about this change is a very very small percentage, it could be that the category booked is not 'speciality' ... It could be a combination of any of the previous things, and things not mentioned.

I think the true test will come in December/January ...

That said, I think that any vacations that end up 'blocked' for whatever reason are going to be 'Due to the new Booking Policy'. At least it wont be due to SSR owners anymore.

 

[jdg345]

So it seems we agree that unless it's a very busy time of the year most folks are going to get what they want. Which has probably always been the case, and much of the DBD calling was a waste of resources. Hence, the change.

I understand why some people are nervous. As has already been posted, for those "in the know" and determined, it was basically a shoo in to get anywhere at any time. If it will be harder to get those highly desireable times/accommodations with this new change remains to be seen.

If you were correct, a 'waste' of who's resources?

Let me ask ... do you think that your dues will now go down because of this new policy?

Also, those 'in the know' and determined will likely still get what they want anywhere and at anytime. It's just that they will now not only impact members that want those dates, but also members who want dates before theirs. If you call in and attempt to make a reservation and find there is no availability, it might be due to someone locking up dates they have no intention of using. At least with the old way, if the room was booked, you would figure it was for someone to stay in it.

 

[idratherbeinwdw]

If you were correct, a 'waste' of who's resources?

Let me ask ... do you think that your dues will now go down because of this new policy?

Also, those 'in the know' and determined will likely still get what they want anywhere and at anytime. It's just that they will now not only impact members that want those dates, but also members who want dates before theirs. If you call in and attempt to make a reservation and find there is no availability, it might be due to someone locking up dates they have no intention of using. At least with the old way, if the room was booked, you would figure it was for someone to stay in it.

I am going to hit you with your own quote, because I think it responds to what you said above:

I think it is too tough to call at this juncture. It could be due to slow times, it could be due to the fact that the membership that knows about this change is a very very small percentage, it could be that the category booked is not 'speciality' ... It could be a combination of any of the previous things, and things not mentioned.

I think the true test will come in December/January ...

I think we have a meeting of the minds.

 

[Dean]

This comment by Dean caught my attention. You seem to be saying that the DVC system did actually allow a higher success rate than industry standards. And since you have also said that what they are switching to is much more within industry standards then in actuality we should expect to no longer be spoiled and have lower success rates? Or are you suggesting that the higher success rates had nothing at all to do with the system and was just a fluke that DVC members were lucky to get?

Yes, I think it's an aberrancy compared to other systems. My personal feeling (with no facts at all or even much other info to back it up) is that DVC members have been lax in making reservations and that has led to a false sense of security and easier than I would expect time in making reservations. For example, If one owns a floating week Marriott for a number of resorts and wants a given week, you'd better be on the phone when they open 12 months out and even then there are a number of properties where your chances are likely 10% or less for certain times of the year. I actually invested about $45000 extra with Marriott in part to allow reservations 13 months out rather than 12.

I've had an exchange to MX reserved for 2-3 months for Jan, 2010 and had Aruba set at 12 months out with air at 11 months out. I also frequently use FF miles so I also have to call day 1, usually staying up to MN to do so when the day changes over.

IMO, this is changing as DVC members progressively learn to be more aggressive to improve their chances of success. I believe SSR had a lot to do with forcing this issue but have felt it was inevitable regardless and is one of the reasons I've been so firm in my conviction that one should buy where they want to stay if they care and that I've discounted the 7 month window to a degree.

 

[kgc07]

So it seems we agree that unless it's a very busy time of the year most folks are going to get what they want. Which has probably always been the case, and much of the DBD calling was a waste of resources. Hence, the change.

I understand why some people are nervous. As has already been posted, for those "in the know" and determined, it was basically a shoo in to get anywhere at any time. If it will be harder to get those highly desireable times/accommodations with this new change remains to be seen.

I don't think it was always a shoo in when calling DBD. I called right at 9 to get a AKC concierge reservation. The MS rep took too long to secure the room and by 9:08 the room I was trying to get was gone. I think it was necessary to call DBD for concierge.

 

[DVC Mike]

So it seems we agree that unless it's a very busy time of the year most folks are going to get what they want. Which has probably always been the case, and much of the DBD calling was a waste of resources. Hence, the change.

If you were correct, a 'waste' of who's resources?

Both MS and all the DVC members who had to spend time on hold trying to book day-by-day. So it's a win-win situation!

 

[Dean]

I agree. That's why the position you are taking cannot be justified. The new system IS CHOOSING winners and losers--those who start their vacation earlier are the winners. First come, first served DBD does not CHOOSE the winners or losers or make a judgement as to who is more deserving.

No, we're talking 2 different things. Every system choses who the winners and losers are to a degree but it does so by setting up a system that everyone must follow. The old system was one way, the new system is another and any revisions will be as well. The point was that the system should not go in with the intent of favoring one group over another for emotional or personal reasons. DVC shouldn't say, lets try to make it easier for Teachers, Nurses, Fireman, Clericals, etc. with the intent of trying to help out a given group. So if they set up a system that is reasonable overall and ends up favoring one group, that is fine, if it favors one group too much, it should change. In DVC's eyes the old system favored one group too much and at the expense of a lot of complaints and extra phone calls (costs) to the system so they felt the need for a change. If the current changes don't work out, they will change again though likely not back to the DBD option in the way it was before.

For those interested in who will get the savings or pay the cost of the new system you can always use your rights under Florida law if you have the spare time.

From FAQ section of FL timeshare site

6. As an owner, am I entitled to access to the financial records of the timeshare plan?
Yes. Florida law provides that the managing entity provide to you a copy of the annual budget each year and make the annual audit available to you upon request. Additionally, as an owner you have a right to inspect the books and records of the timeshare plan at any reasonable time, under reasonable conditions, and under the supervision of the custodian of records. Your request for access should be made to the managing entity or association.

bookwormde

As of Sept 2006 only one person had ever done so.

 

[Dean]

Below is the Florida section on the manager’s responsibility for establishing and modifying multisite reservation system.

“721.56 (6) Prior to offering the multisite timeshare plan, the developer shall create the reservation system and shall establish rules and regulations for its operation. In establishing these rules and regulations, the developer shall take into account the location and anticipated relative use demand of each component site that he or she intends to offer as a part of the plan and shall use his or her best efforts, in good faith and based upon all reasonably available evidence under the circumstances, to further the best interests of the purchasers of the plan as a whole with respect to their opportunity to use and enjoy the accommodations and facilities of the plan. The rules and regulations shall also provide for periodic adjustment or amendment of the reservation system by the managing entity from time to time in order to respond to actual purchaser use patterns and changes in purchaser use demand for the accommodations and facilities existing at that time within the plan. The person authorized to make additions and substitutions during the term of the multisite timeshare plan shall also comply with the requirements of this subsection in ascertaining the desirability of the proposed addition, substitution, adjustment, or amendment and the impact of same upon the demand for and availability of existing plan accommodations and facilities.”

I wonder how much of the impact study was done?

Here is the site if anyone is interested

http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/lsc/index.html

bookwormde

Taking into a account does not require an impact study, no study is require though it may or may not be needed. Disney had a lot more info that applied from their hotel experience. I don't see a single component of that requirement of 721 that DVC hasn't followed to the letter including taking into account the impact on the membership as a whole.

great cant wait for my reduced dues bill in 2009 and 2010 will be even less

We'll see, more likely they won't go up as fast as DVC isn't going to push these changes to the degree required to produce those changes. The scary part is that EXISTING members have to pay the fees so if some don't pay, the rest have to pay more.

 

[Dean]

surely you mean the 7 month ressies what with all the SSR haters looking to change,

NO, I mean 11 months. Here's the cascade. More points at the 7 month window means those who previously reserved at 7 months no longer are successful so they move back inside the home resort window. But then that extra competition creates others that are unsuccessful at 8-9 months and so on back to the 11 month window. One can argue why but it'd seem difficult to argue against the idea that reservations have gotten more difficult in the last couple of years. Certainly one could use the same argument for the developer points though overall they're a fraction of the total points created at SSR. And VB, HH and to a degree, OKW owners follow the same pattern, it's just that SSR (and the developer points) are a lot of points and additive on top of the rest. This should max out about 2-3 years from now unless another resort is built that has less demand than the destination resorts.

 

[jdg345]

Both MS and all the DVC members who had to spend time on hold trying to book day-by-day. So it's a win-win situation!

No one had to spend time on hold to book day-by-day though ... it was a choice ... you could have called later in the day based on checkout too.

 

[jdg345]

NO, I mean 11 months. Here's the cascade. More points at the 7 month window means those who previously reserved at 7 months no longer are successful so they move back inside the home resort window. But then that extra competition creates others that are unsuccessful at 8-9 months and so on back to the 11 month window. One can argue why but it'd seem difficult to argue against the idea that reservations have gotten more difficult in the last couple of years. Certainly one could use the same argument for the developer points though overall they're a fraction of the total points created at SSR. And VB, HH and to a degree, OKW owners follow the same pattern, it's just that SSR (and the developer points) are a lot of points and additive on top of the rest. This should max out about 2-3 years from now unless another resort is built that has less demand than the destination resorts.

While developer points may be a fraction, just about everyone purchasing AKV is getting them, and they expire quickly. What better time to take a vacation than during the Thanksgiving/Christmas/NYE Season? IMO, we have an influx of points that can't really be used where they were purchased (ie: AKV isn't ready), so they're using them elsewhere ... and they have to because they can't be banked. Many would have expired by next summer, so the logic choice is to use them for the Holidays ... imo, of course.

So, I guess ... it is AKV's fault now.

 

[jdg345]

Taking into a account does not require an impact study, no study is require though it may or may not be needed. Disney had a lot more info that applied from their hotel experience. I don't see a single component of that requirement of 721 that DVC hasn't followed to the letter including taking into account the impact on the membership as a whole.

We'll see, more likely they won't go up as fast as DVC isn't going to push these changes to the degree required to produce those changes. The scary part is that EXISTING members have to pay the fees so if some don't pay, the rest have to pay more.

Then we'll never really know what the savings was, if any. Isn't it entirely possible that DVC will raise dues anyways and pocket any savings made by this change? I also don't understand why it would save dues anyways, as I understood MS was part of the 12%.

 

[tidefan]

First off, hope everyone had a good 4th...

We actually agree on something. As you said "the system should not be in the business of deciding who is a deserving member". It has determined by the nature of the system that the person who arrives before another is now the deserving member by allowing that member to reserve before the 11/7 month booking window. Other members mid-week reservations or Sunday to Thursday reservations no longer matter to those more deserving members or to DVC as long as someone else wins and is happy.

maminnie

You know, the more I think about this, the less this comment and others like it make sense. The overriding theme is that "people arriving before me will have the advantage over me". You use the example that folks arriving Friday or Saturday will have an advantage. Why? Won't folks arriving on Thursday have an "advantage" over them and so on? However, that is not really what has me thinking.

Here is my question. Let's suppose person A books 10 nights arriving on a Friday (Day 1) and leaving on a Monday (Day 11). This room CANNOT be booked by anyone at 11 months before on the Friday or Saturday (Days 8 or 9). The first time that this room will be available to be booked will be 11 months from that Monday, so the Monday person will HAVE THE ADVANTAGE in booking over the Friday or Saturday booking person in cases such as this, because this room is not in inventory for them to book.

Your logic only holds water if all checkouts are on Friday or Saturday and I am fairly sure that is just not the case. On our September 07 trip, for instance, we checked out on a Wednesday. So I don't think that the system decides who gets a room and who doesn't. It would be interesting to see what the distribution of checkout days are...

 

[Snookies]

NO, I mean 11 months. Here's the cascade. More points at the 7 month window means those who previously reserved at 7 months no longer are successful so they move back inside the home resort window. But then that extra competition creates others that are unsuccessful at 8-9 months and so on back to the 11 month window. One can argue why but it'd seem difficult to argue against the idea that reservations have gotten more difficult in the last couple of years. Certainly one could use the same argument for the developer points though overall they're a fraction of the total points created at SSR. And VB, HH and to a degree, OKW owners follow the same pattern, it's just that SSR (and the developer points) are a lot of points and additive on top of the rest. This should max out about 2-3 years from now unless another resort is built that has less demand than the destination resorts.

Dean, I think this is an excellent point. Do you think this effect has been more pronounced at the destination resorts? Do you think the new destination resorts will be affected similarly? Being able to see actual internal exchange data would be really interesting.

Yes, I think it's an aberrancy compared to other systems. My personal feeling (with no facts at all or even much other info to back it up) is that DVC members have been lax in making reservations and that has led to a false sense of security and easier than I would expect time in making reservations. For example, If one owns a floating week Marriott for a number of resorts and wants a given week, you'd better be on the phone when they open 12 months out and even then there are a number of properties where your chances are likely 10% or less for certain times of the year...

Our experience with Marriott is identical to yours (and additional purchases were made for the same reason you mentioned).

 

[LIFERBABE]

Your logic only holds water if all checkouts are on Friday or Saturday and I am fairly sure that is just not the case. On our September 07 trip, for instance, we checked out on a Wednesday. So I don't think that the system decides who gets a room and who doesn't. It would be interesting to see what the distribution of checkout days are...

Which is what most will book, if they have enough points to "walk" the reservation. This is why this change will benefit me, but I still dont like it. I can start my ressie on a high point night because I have the points to do so. I can then book for a week and start adding on Day by Day. Once I have what I want, cancel what I dont need, keep what I do.

So while others are planning to stay at AllStars or Universal for those High Point Weekends, I'll be working the system with all my points Ex. An SSR 1 bedroom is 68 points over Christmas/NYE weekends. Put 2 of those together and you just shook a whole lot of folks off your desired stay at peak times.

There will only be crumbs left after all the cancellations have shook out.

Everything you thought you knew about booking, has completely changed. The slate has been wiped clean and as they say at H&R Block, "past performance is not an indicator of future performance"

All this is hypothetical of course

 

[disneydisneydoo]

But do you start walking the reservation the Friday/Saturday before your intended Sunday arrival, or do you start walking a week before - two weeks before? I believe there are plenty who can probably walk if needed, but where do you start - especially for the high demand times.

I don't intend to walk my reservation. I think I will make out fine without doing that for the times I travel. I also think it does seem like more work than DbD to do that and even if not, it seems like the potential for a possible mistake on MS part that could cancel the whole reservation is more likely than with DbD. At peak times, I wouldn't want to risk that possibility.

 

[cc1075]

I'm sure no one will have sympathy with my problem - but I am sure I am not the only one. We can only visit Disney during March and April due to work schedules. We purchased enough points to stay for five weeks. So using 2009 as an example - we could book one week beginning March 29 - two weeks before Easter - but if I do that then I will be calling everyday beginning Arpil 5 - which is Palm Sunday through April 24. I will be forced to call everyday for over three weeks because my vacation started prior to a prime day and continued through a prime time. And even if a do call every day there will be a good chance that the rooms will be gone - imagine calling 11 months out for Easter Sunday - seven days after the reservations have opened for others !!

Think I will give MS a call to see just how this will work for me -! What a mess!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm sure no one will have sympathy with my problem - but I am sure I am not the only one. We can only visit Disney during March and April due to work schedules. We purchased enough points to stay for five weeks. So using 2009 as an example - we could book one week beginning March 29 - two weeks before Easter - but if I do that then I will be calling everyday beginning Arpil 5 - which is Palm Sunday through April 24. I will be forced to call everyday for over three weeks because my vacation started prior to a prime day and continued through a prime time. And even if a do call every day there will be a good chance that the rooms will be gone - imagine calling 11 months out for Easter Sunday - seven days after the reservations have opened for others !!

Think I will give MS a call to see just how this will work for me -! What a mess!

People have been suggesting that as long as you call before the 11 months mark of the end of your stay then your room should be available for you to continue on your stay. I do think that this reasoning is probably correct so once you have your reservation started you should be able to call just another 4 times (maybe it'll be 5?) to finish out your stay - assuming MS lets you add on days up to 7 out from the day you are calling. ie, you can call April 5th and add on 7 days, then April 12th and add on again.

But I do feel for you and and other's because you and they bought under a particular system and now that has been changed and it could possibly be difficult to get the reservation started if you bought with a particular room category in mind.

However - can I be jealous and have no sympathy about your staying 5 weeks! Lucky you and I hope that it will work out ok.