New pavilion coming to Epcot and it's not a real country

[lockedoutlogic]

I really hope it is more than just meet and greet and is allowing an expansion of the frozen ride

Nothing in the suggested budget indicates they are even thinking about touching the ride system.

They can't build a bathroom for "20 million" these days.

But I'm not sure if we have confirmation of the suggested budget...

 

[rteetz]

Nothing in the suggested budget indicates they are even thinking about touching the ride system. They can't build a bathroom for "20 million" these days. But I'm not sure if we have confirmation of the suggested budget...

Well I've heard budget for the ride is around 75 million

 

[Andrew015]

Well I've heard budget for the ride is around 75 million

If that is, in fact, true... that doesn't bode very well for the Norwegian princesses. If memory serves me correctly, the ~$495M New Fantasyland expansion gave us a well-themed restaurant, a kiddie coaster, a below-average Omnimover ride, a quick service restaurant and a meet & greet area. On average, that boils down to ~$100M per mediocre attraction, or 33% more than what is budgeted for reinventing Maelstrom AND converting the empty pad next door COMBINED.

I think we can basically count on this being the same ride system with a "Frozen overlay" combined with a meet & greet area. Also, I'm sure that some of that $75M will have to be "squeezed" for a gift shop of some sort.

For the sake of EPCOT and everyone concerned, let's hope it's more than $75M, but don't hold your breath...

 

[rteetz]

If that is, in fact, true... that doesn't bode very well for the Norwegian princesses. If memory serves me correctly, the ~$495M New Fantasyland expansion gave us a well-themed restaurant, a kiddie coaster, a below-average Omnimover ride, a quick service restaurant and a meet & greet area. On average, that boils down to ~$100M per mediocre attraction, or 33% more than what is budgeted for reinventing Maelstrom AND converting the empty pad next door COMBINED. I think we can basically count on this being the same ride system with a "Frozen overlay" combined with a meet & greet area. Also, I'm sure that some of that $75M will have to be "squeezed" for a gift shop of some sort. For the sake of EPCOT and everyone concerned, let's hope it's more than $75M, but don't hold your breath...

Well even when it was first rumored it was just supposed to be a overlay to the ride. The latest rumors show that they will do a combined load and unload which will make room for one extra scene. The entire queue area will be completely redone. I seem to remember hearing that mermaid at NFL cost just over 100 million. The 75 million number doesn't surprise me.

 

[Andrew015]

Well even when it was first rumored it was just supposed to be a overlay to the ride. The latest rumors show that they will do a combined load and unload which will make room for one extra scene. The entire queue area will be completely redone. I seem to remember hearing that mermaid at NFL cost just over 100 million. The 75 million number doesn't surprise me.

Little Mermaid has to be one of the most unimpressive "new" rides that I have experienced at Disney. If that's as good as it gets for $100M, I wouldn't expect much of a "wow" factor for $75M.

 

[clsteve]

Well even when it was first rumored it was just supposed to be a overlay to the ride. The latest rumors show that they will do a combined load and unload which will make room for one extra scene. The entire queue area will be completely redone. I seem to remember hearing that mermaid at NFL cost just over 100 million. The 75 million number doesn't surprise me.

But, where are they going to put all of these guests?

It sucks beyond comprehension that this is the first use for one of the expansion pads

But, I thought at least they would connect/combine the 2 projects to in some way facilitate and control the little princess flow in and out of that box canyon currently known as the Norway Pavilion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any proactive crowd management between the 2.

Maybe an engineer more versed in this can chime in, because all that's jumping out at me is one now bigger tiara wearing traffic jam.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[rteetz]

But, where are they going to put all of these guests? It sucks beyond comprehension that this is the first use for one of the expansion pads But, I thought at least they would connect/combine the 2 projects to in some way facilitate and control the little princess flow in and out of that box canyon currently known as the Norway Pavilion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any proactive crowd management between the 2. Maybe an engineer more versed in this can chime in, because all that's jumping out at me is one now bigger tiara wearing traffic jam. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't know for sure and no one does except Disney but that's the rumors floating around. I think we are at that point of if it gets people here and makes money Disney doesn't care.

 

[rteetz]

Frommers came out with an article basically saying world showcase is dead because of frozen.

http://www.frommers.com/community/b...epcots-worlds-fair-concept-dies#ixzz3PK21eiyl

 

[Andrew015]

But, where are they going to put all of these guests?

It sucks beyond comprehension that this is the first use for one of the expansion pads

But, I thought at least they would connect/combine the 2 projects to in some way facilitate and control the little princess flow in and out of that box canyon currently known as the Norway Pavilion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any proactive crowd management between the 2.

Maybe an engineer more versed in this can chime in, because all that's jumping out at me is one now bigger tiara wearing traffic jam.

I hope I'm wrong.

This is a big question mark for me as well. I thought I heard that the new ride is almost a slam dunk for being 100% FP+ (no standby). If this is true, while it might help, I still think this area is destined to be a bottleneck simply due to the existing pavilion's layout. I'm really curious to see how they intend to address this, if at all.

 

[rteetz]

This is a big question mark for me as well. I thought I heard that the new ride is almost a slam dunk for being 100% FP+ (no standby). If this is true, while it might help, I still think this area is destined to be a bottleneck simply due to the existing pavilion's layout. I'm really curious to see how they intend to address this, if at all.

Highly doubt this is FP+ only and I actually haven't hear that rumor. If it was you would have a lot of upset little Anna and Elsas

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well I've heard budget for the ride is around 75 million

Oh... Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting that it was 20 mil...

Only that these "big budgets" are inflated off the bat and yield little.

75 mil for Disney isn't a big investment

 

[rteetz]

Oh... Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting that it was 20 mil... Only that these "big budgets" are inflated off the bat and yield little. 75 mil for Disney isn't a big investment

Ok I wanted it to be known as well that this is really a cheaper investment for Disney when they of course could do much better.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Frommers came out with an article basically saying world showcase is dead because of frozen.

http://www.frommers.com/community/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/_frozen-pavilion-epcots-worlds-fair-concept-dies#ixzz3PK21eiyl

It's a good read...inline with we EPCOT purists...

I just think a princess house is beyond tacky...as if they were itching for some excuse... Just couldn't handle not having a princess queue one minute longer...

That's an obvious move...they're actually doing it to retract the "princess heavy" lineup of characters out of the showcase and into a central, streamlined, cheaper spot.

Disney isn't stupid...they know the frozen steam is already running out...and it will be "princess hall" much more than frozen hall by the time it opens...
But add a cute little kiddie ride...new giftshop...and hey...lots of fun, huh?

 

[clsteve]

This is a big question mark for me as well. I thought I heard that the new ride is almost a slam dunk for being 100% FP+ (no standby). If this is true, while it might help, I still think this area is destined to be a bottleneck simply due to the existing pavilion's layout. I'm really curious to see how they intend to address this, if at all.

We've all been there on a day when Everbody seemed to want a school bread or an aquavit and at the same time a couple of big tour groups popped in for their Maelstrom ride.

Kinda tight.

Turning Maelstrom into a Soarin level must do, adding the M&G, plus creating a 2nd RD when WS opens......

They have to be planning for what we're worried about, right....?

 

[OKW Lover]

Frommers came out with an article basically saying world showcase is dead because of frozen.

http://www.frommers.com/community/b...epcots-worlds-fair-concept-dies#ixzz3PK21eiyl

That was a pretty stupid read. Talk about a slant. You'd think the author was posting on this thread.

Norway's sponsorship of the pavilion ran out years before Frozen came along.
Even if you believe the story, 11 million visitors is "dead"? Each year Epcot has shown a growth in the number of visitors. 2013's 11.2M number continued that trend and I'm sure 2014 data will continue to do so. The 11M annual visitors puts Epcot at #5 in terms of theme park attendance. Hardly "dead".

 

[rteetz]

That was a pretty stupid read. Talk about a slant. You'd think the author was posting on this thread. Norway's sponsorship of the pavilion ran out years before Frozen came along. Even if you believe the story, 11 million visitors is "dead"?

I just think the problem, which started this thread is frozen is taking over a pavilion basically. I saw the article on twitter and frommers being a travel company I figured it was worth a post.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

That was a pretty stupid read. Talk about a slant. You'd think the author was posting on this thread.

Norway's sponsorship of the pavilion ran out years before Frozen came along.
Even if you believe the story, 11 million visitors is "dead"? Each year Epcot has shown a growth in the number of visitors. 2013's 11.2M number continued that trend and I'm sure 2014 data will continue to do so. The 11M annual visitors puts Epcot at #5 in terms of theme park attendance. Hardly "dead".

I just think the problem, which started this thread is frozen is taking over a pavilion basically. I saw the article on twitter and frommers being a travel company I figured it was worth a post.

I think his comment was directed at the Frommers article and some negative posts in the thread, not the original article or the creation of the thread. That is how I took it, anyway.

Also, we don't know yet how much the ride will include Norway. People give Disney so little credit. With a little work and creativity they can have the ride be Frozen and Norway tied together very creatively. Let's wait and see. To me it is such a natural and obvious combination that people are clamoring for. Unlike LockedoutLogic, I think Disney read the obvious writing on the wall, did some research, and knows that Frozen is here to stay for a whole generation, and even more age groups.

Also, I agree with another thread that pointed out that the whole World's Fair idea is dead and it isn't Disney's fault. Travel patterns have changed, cruising has grown, and with Cable TV and Youtube the need for a World's Fair has greatly diminished. Disney would be happy to do one, but most of the Countries have decided against the investment.

And remember that change is constant at Disney as it should be.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That was a pretty stupid read. Talk about a slant. You'd think the author was posting on this thread.

Norway's sponsorship of the pavilion ran out years before Frozen came along.
Even if you believe the story, 11 million visitors is "dead"? Each year Epcot has shown a growth in the number of visitors. 2013's 11.2M number continued that trend and I'm sure 2014 data will continue to do so. The 11M annual visitors puts Epcot at #5 in terms of theme park attendance. Hardly "dead".

The sponsorship stuff was a misdirection...no doubt.

But there is definitely a valid argument from traditional EPCOT fans.

I'm sorry..."Disney knows best" just isn't a good enough reason to trust them anymore.

They don't put the same level of quality and the desire to get it right in their park designs and decisions anymore...especially in the swamp.

You can certainly disagree and offer counter arguments...but It is inappropriate to dismiss those that see this as having more of an effect longterm than simply
"Giving my DD what she wants!"

 

[rteetz]

I think his comment was directed at the Frommers article and some negative posts in the thread, not the original article or the creation of the thread. That is how I took it, anyway. Also, we don't know yet how much the ride will include Norway. People give Disney so little credit. With a little work and creativity they can have the ride be Frozen and Norway tied together very creatively. Let's wait and see. To me it is such a natural and obvious combination that people are clamoring for. Unlike LockedoutLogic, I think Disney read the obvious writing on the wall, did some research, and knows that Frozen is here to stay for a whole generation, and even more age groups. Also, I agree with another thread that pointed out that the whole World's Fair idea is dead and it isn't Disney's fault. Travel patterns have changed, cruising has grown, and with Cable TV and Youtube the need for a World's Fair has greatly diminished. Disney would be happy to do one, but most of the Countries have decided against the investment. And remember that change is constant at Disney as it should be.

I know it was directed at the article I was just saying that it just goes back to the overall problem of frozen in world showcase. World showcases intentions were not to have a movie like frozen in it. Yes disney read the writing on the wall that they don't have to spend much and it will get more people to Epcot. Yes I realize change is constant at Disney and most of the time that is a good thing. I just feel disney could've done better. The rumored budget of 75 million for this is not a lot for comparison LM in Fantasyland cost 100 million. Tokyo is rumored to have a 400+ million dollar budget for frozen, and yes I know they aren't owned by Disney. But frozen should've gotten a D or E ticket in fantasyland or even DHS not a redo of an existing attraction in Norway.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know it was directed at the article I was just saying that it just goes back to the overall problem of frozen in world showcase. World showcases intentions were not to have a movie like frozen in it. Yes disney read the writing on the wall that they don't have to spend much and it will get more people to Epcot. Yes I realize change is constant at Disney and most of the time that is a good thing. I just feel disney could've done better. The rumored budget of 75 million for this is not a lot for comparison LM in Fantasyland cost 100 million. Tokyo is rumored to have a 400+ million dollar budget for frozen, and yes I know they aren't owned by Disney. But frozen should've gotten a D or E ticket in fantasyland or even DHS not a redo of an existing attraction in Norway.

It's really hard to bring up a valid argument to dispute anything you stated above...

But I'll wait for someone to try