New pamphlet handed out yesterday...3/3/2012

[disney david]

I don't think so because I have heard from other people on different days at Epcot who were given a pamphlet under the same circumstances.
For whatever reason, they were handed out for only a short time.

My guess (and strictly a guess) is that enough people complained very quickly to make them change.

Thanks, Mike.
Very helpful, as usual.

For those of you who don't understand why this has upset some people - please re-read my prior posts where I tried to explain.

Some have implied ( or even wrote) that 'certain disabilities' are taken more seriously than others. To that, I say that my reaction would be the same if WDW was handing out an etiquette and manners pamphlet:
- to people who are visually impaired, telling them to keep their distance from others so that they don't bump into them or trip them with a cane.
- to people who are hearing impaired, telling them that since they can't hear, they need to keep their distance from other people and watch out so that they do not bump someone coming behind from them
- to people with service animals, telling them to keep their distance from orhers to sure that no one trips over the animal, gets scared by it or stops traffic trying to pet it

I still maintain that it is discrimination to hand something out to everyone in a class, without them doing anything wrong 'just in case' .
If someone does something that causes a problem, they need to be stopped, talked to and dealt with.
But, as I already posted, I have seen multiple situations where people were stopped and as soon as the CM went away, they went back to going the same thing. If they didn't stop after a personal interaction with a CM, I don't see why a paper would stop them.

thanks sue i was just hoping it was a mistake by a cm but sounds like it not wonder if any other park is handed them out or was it just epoct.

 

[hellofolks]

I hope they hand out keep your stroller off the person in front of you rules. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone hit me from the rear with their stroller

Agreed. Some people are very rude and do this all the time. My hubby and I get hit at the back of our ankles all the time.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I talked to my manager again today. He had read what I had given him (printed the first 4½ pages of this thread) and passed it up the line to the Area Manager for the Front Gate area.

He also told me that they have stopped handing them out.

We shall see what happens.

 

[Talking Hands]

I don't know the difference between the ones that are rented out and the ones that aren't. I just used this to show the weight and speed. What is the difference between this and the the ones rented outside? Like I said, I used only to show the difference in the weight & speed as opposed to a stroller.
I also stated, that those here, are not the problem.. I am sure all here do watch where they are going, as they are conscious to what they are doing. It is the "others" that aren't. the flyers may help some out, we cannot say it won't. There may be some that feel if they were given the flyer, they are being "watched" .. sort of a psychological tactic. No, not all will stop. It may also be covering Disney's butts as well. By handing them out to those in the scooter/ECV is not discrimination. It is giving it to those that use them. Like I said, I am wondering if they are giving them to the manual wheelchair users.. I am thinking they are only giving to the electric as they have a motor.. the motor is what makes the danger.

When you guys are feeling singled out, discriminated against.. think of us with other disabilities .. again, I will bring up the HM. I know you understand that portion about me with it. I have been told by posters here to deal with it, it is only a dim room, have a friend go with me Yes, by posters on this sub forum. Someone with low vision is to deal with going into a dark room until Disney can iron out the problems, but everyone here is up in arms over a piece of paper I (and those like me) can literally fall over a wheelchair in that dark room with my vision, and I am told to deal with it until Disney figures out how to fix it, but those here are ready to write, call, complain about being handed a piece of paper I don't get it.

In all honesty, I think I would just wait and see what comes of this flyer. I do think someone was hurt and Disney must hand them out. Maybe they stopped doing so already as it seems they aren't doing now All it is is paper, it isn't something that is going to hurt anyone such as the HM can do to some disabled guests.. that is a safety hazard for some.. but we must "deal with it" until it is figured out..

What are rented out are scooters, not powered wheelchairs. Only those who own powered wheelchairs are allowed to rent those from outside. Disney does rent them at all. They are not really generic and have to be set up to the specific needs of the user. Because I am a shorter my chair had to hace the footrest raised and my provider had to create an extra hole to set the height correctly. The arms had to be lowered because a normal height would have my arms raised all the time. It would be very difficult for me to rent a powered wheelchair because of my needs so we bring my chair with us. The ECVs rented by Disney are not a fit for me and I hate them plus they cause my hands to go numb so would be dangerous for me. Also the model powered chair you showed would not be used by many. It is made for a person who is very large. MY chair weighs around 200 pounds are this is more in line with what commonly used scooters would weigh. My original scooter ran about the same.
Handing out a pamphlet to just users of ECVs and powered wheelchair users is just wrong. While bad users are a problem they are not the entire problem. Often the problems are created by walkers actions. Playing chicken with a powered wheelchair or scooter is never a good idea. I do try to let people know when I am coming up from behind by saying there is a chair coming behind them. Most appreciate it but some don't.
Now if the pamphlet actually gave some practical advice it might be better received but from what the OP said it doesn't.
Off point but relevant, we had a student today who, due to testing, was in his powered wheelchair in the middle of class change. A very crowded situation yet he was able to maneuver his PWC through the halls easily without running over any students or teachers. If it can be done in the halls of a high school with far less space than a theme park anyone used to using an ECV should be able to do the same without taking out others. They really need to focus more on making sure those renting ECVs understand and know how to use these pieces of mobility equipment.

Btw I do like being forced to maneuver through the darkened area of HM either. I cannot see others well and have to be extremely careful not to bump others. Since I also have a hearing impairment I have the added of challenge of not being able to hear the CMs giving instructions and because it is dark I can't lip read either.

 

[disneyobessed]

Ok I am at both ends of this argument.. My son is handicapped and is actually getting a scooter next week.. He has cerebral pasly and is able to walk long distances... When we go into the parks next year, I will not be offended at all if we get one of these... and I will tell you why..

Last summer I was run over but a scooter be driven by a man that was backing out of a elevator at the Contemporary, he had his 2 grandsons on his lap and backed up and parked right onto my foot after I shoved my 9 year old son out of the way. I informed him "excuse me sir, you are on my FOOT!" and he then moved forward and backed into me AGAIN, nearly knocking me over. I totally understand it was an accident but 1. He didnt need his grandsons on his lap 2. A sorry would have been nice.. my foot was bruised and it hurt for a few days

I see numerous people in the parks on scooters with kids hanging off them, people having no clue how to back them up and park them ect.. Im sure it is the people that are using them for the 1st time... BUt let me say this... DISNEY WORLD IS NOT the place to try to learn to use a scooter... too many people around to hit and run over!! SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE! To be honest, I will probablly not even let my son use his in fear of him hitting someone.

I apologize for offending anyone one, bc Im sure the majority of people are in control but unfortunatly with the huge increase of scooter use in Disney they have the to do this!

 

[pugdog]

Disney can easily say no electric scooters. ADA states equal.. and a manual chair is equal, electric is much easier true, but manual is all that ADA standards will back anyone on. They cannot force Disney to take the electric.. or at least I don't think they can.

:

Actually I think you might be wrong with the above statement. If the person can not self propel the manual chair themselves then it would not be considered equal.

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually I think you might be wrong with the above statement. If the person can not self propel the manual chair themselves then it would not be considered equal.

 

[dclfun]

Ok I am at both ends of this argument.. My son is handicapped and is actually getting a scooter next week.. He has cerebral pasly and is able to walk long distances... When we go into the parks next year, I will not be offended at all if we get one of these... and I will tell you why..

Last summer I was run over but a scooter be driven by a man that was backing out of a elevator at the Contemporary, he had his 2 grandsons on his lap and backed up and parked right onto my foot after I shoved my 9 year old son out of the way. I informed him "excuse me sir, you are on my FOOT!" and he then moved forward and backed into me AGAIN, nearly knocking me over. I totally understand it was an accident but 1. He didnt need his grandsons on his lap 2. A sorry would have been nice.. my foot was bruised and it hurt for a few days

I see numerous people in the parks on scooters with kids hanging off them, people having no clue how to back them up and park them ect.. Im sure it is the people that are using them for the 1st time... BUt let me say this... DISNEY WORLD IS NOT the place to try to learn to use a scooter... too many people around to hit and run over!! SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE! To be honest, I will probablly not even let my son use his in fear of him hitting someone.

I apologize for offending anyone one, bc Im sure the majority of people are in control but unfortunatly with the huge increase of scooter use in Disney they have the to do this!

While this Guest should NOT have had is grandkids on his lap, I will say that in backing out of an elevator, I cannot see behind me. It is prudent for everyone to stay clear of the elevator door until all Guests are off. I try to position myself so that I am driving forward but it's not always possible. While backing off I do look down for anyone's feet but cannot constantly scan both sides of my chair to look for others. At this point, I need them to realize I'm coming out and to stay clear of my chair.

 

[MAYNARDS99]

I came across this thread by accident. Wow! You are offended because Disney hands you a pamphlet about good etiquette?

ALL park maps have general safety and etiquette instructions.

An early post suggested licenses. Seems like a reasonable idea if you use a MOTORIZED device. Hmm, you must have a license to drive a car or ride a motorcycle...Not just for your personal safety, but those around you.

 

[pugdog]

I came across this thread by accident. Wow! You are offended because Disney hands you a pamphlet about good etiquette?

ALL park maps have general safety and etiquette instructions.

An early post suggested licenses. Seems like a reasonable idea if you use a MOTORIZED device. Hmm, you must have a license to drive a car or ride a motorcycle...Not just for your personal safety, but those around you.

You have clearly not read all of this thread to make a comment like that. People are not upset about the pamphlet per se but how it was being handed out to only a few people not everyone. The message needs to be put out there but in a better way then WDW tried to do it.

 

[MAYNARDS99]

Pug...by everyone do you mean those guests NOT in a wheelchair or scooter?

I thought the pamphlets were intended for those not walking.

 

[Tinker Bell Fan]

I don't ride a scooter - my DH does while we're at Disney (he's AK amputee and it's easier to get around Disney on a scooter). But if he gets one of these (and if I were a scooter rider and got one) I know we'd both be upset because of being singled out. And I know we'll complain!

If they are going to give out these types of pamphlets then it should be the type of pamphlet that is for both ECV/WC/strollers AND for those walking. As was mentioned in another forum here on the DIS (where a child almost was run over by an ECV user (she was going WAY TOO FAST and had a child on her lap) - folks (all folks) who come to Disney can be so 'overwhelmed by being at Disney' it's like they forget there are other people around them.

So if a pamphlet on etiquette or "common sense practices" is given out, it should be given out to ALL guests no matter if they are in an ECV, Wheelchair, stroller or simply walking. It should also say that handicap bathroom stalls are not meant to be a play area for your little who wants to "play with water". (yes, I know "yuck" but this has happened to DH a few times when he's tried to use the handicap stall in the mens room - now we look for the "family friendly room").

This post is right on the mark. My husband uses an ECV and is very cautious; any near misses have been the result of walkers either crossing right in front of the scooter or walking into the side of the scooter. Yep..he's actually had people walk right into him like he wasn't visible.

This has happened to my DH on numerous occasions! DH usually drives in turtle mode or one notch above turtle. He only goes faster if NO ONE is in front of him, but he still watches around him for a kid or adult to coming running out in front of him (and inevitably stop). We were in MK one day, DH was riding along and this child (about 6 or so) stopped ahead of DH and yelled (yes YELLED) at DH to stop. The father (I think/hope) was shocked at his child's behavior and kind of just stood there staring at the kid. DH went around the kid and the kid ran up in front again and yelled again for DH to stop. DH stopped (and by this time the father came running over yelling at his kid to get out of the way and "leave the nice people alone." The kid was curious as to why DH had a scooter and wanted to see the prosthetic leg. It was comical but it wasn't what we expected and we've learned "expect the unexpected" while touring WDW on a scooter!

 

[A Mickeyfan]

A Mickeyfan, I remember your post about the HM, and the bad posts you got on there. People can be so mean, and not all disabilities require a scooter or power chair. In my case, mine is a power chair, and it does drive MUCH different than a scooter.

With my chair being a power chair, it doesn't have a light on it, so HM is very tricky, as is the Nemo ride in Epcot. I wear glasses, and they're the transitions, so I gotta either deal with extra dark until they change, or take them off and drive with everything fuzzy. I always tell my dh, when I get into my pity party mode, that it can always be worse for me. My body is the one that doesn't work, but my sight, hearing, and smell senses are all intact, and for that I'm thankful. I commend anyone with any sensory issues, as I do not know how well I'd deal with that.

Also, whenever you come back this way, let me know, maybe we can meet up at a park one day!! We're living close to the parks until the first week of June, then we move close to Disneyland!!

Chickenlady, I don't know how much my chair weighs either, but I know I cannot get it in and out of the car. My hubby can, but he grunts and groans when he does get it in and out. Me and my DS can do it, but it takes time. I have a Jazzy 1113 chair.

Here's a pic of the bottom...

I like to think it's unique like me!!!

Anyways, we wrote a letter, it wasn't bad, just letting Disney know that it wasn't cool, and griped about the lady in GS. Clueless people should not be in GS!!! So, we'll see what happens, I don't want any compensation, just awareness. Is that too much to ask for?

I am here!!!!!! I was @ the MK today tiil 5pm & Will be there again tomorrow. I just became addicted to the card game! I too wear transitions, even removing them doesn't help me

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Actually I think you might be wrong with the above statement. If the person can not self propel the manual chair themselves then it would not be considered equal.

not equal for the visually impaired to enter the dark holding room @ the HM alone yet they "must".... Where is that logic? I don't want to keep referring to that but it is the truth????. Certainly not not up to ADA guidelines!

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

I don't ride a scooter - my DH does while we're at Disney (he's AK amputee and it's easier to get around Disney on a scooter). But if he gets one of these (and if I were a scooter rider and got one) I know we'd both be upset because of being singled out. And I know we'll complain!

What is the problem with handing out a pamphlet asking guest using ECV's or wheelchairs asking them to be mindful of people walking?

If they are going to give out these types of pamphlets then it should be the type of pamphlet that is for both ECV/WC/strollers AND for those walking. As was mentioned in another forum here on the DIS (where a child almost was run over by an ECV user (she was going WAY TOO FAST and had a child on her lap) - folks (all folks) who come to Disney can be so 'overwhelmed by being at Disney' it's like they forget there are other people around them.

That is exactly why they should be handing them out so that people using them should be looking out for other people the same with people with strollers. Every time I here Julie say on the podcast that she will run someone over that steps in front over her stroller I think that is the stupidest statement you can make, you need to watch where your going just as much if not more then any one else.

So if a pamphlet on etiquette or "common sense practices" is given out, it should be given out to ALL guests no matter if they are in an ECV, Wheelchair, stroller or simply walking. It should also say that handicap bathroom stalls are not meant to be a play area for your little who wants to "play with water". (yes, I know "yuck" but this has happened to DH a few times when he's tried to use the handicap stall in the mens room - now we look for the "family friendly room").

Again handing pamphlets to all guest is just stupid and you would see a huge pile of them just after the turnstiles if they did that, just like when you see someone handing out pamphlets for a political party, you walk 5 feet away from them and the ground is covered in them.

This has happened to my DH on numerous occasions! DH usually drives in turtle mode or one notch above turtle. He only goes faster if NO ONE is in front of him, but he still watches around him for a kid or adult to coming running out in front of him (and inevitably stop). We were in MK one day, DH was riding along and this child (about 6 or so) stopped ahead of DH and yelled (yes YELLED) at DH to stop. The father (I think/hope) was shocked at his child's behavior and kind of just stood there staring at the kid. DH went around the kid and the kid ran up in front again and yelled again for DH to stop. DH stopped (and by this time the father came running over yelling at his kid to get out of the way and "leave the nice people alone." The kid was curious as to why DH had a scooter and wanted to see the prosthetic leg. It was comical but it wasn't what we expected and we've learned "expect the unexpected" while touring WDW on a scooter!

and that's exactly why there are handing them out to guest using ECV's to warn them that people walking may do something stupid.

not equal for the visually impaired to enter the dark holding room @ the HM alone yet they "must".... Where is that logic? I don't want to keep referring to that but it is the truth????. Certainly not not up to ADA guidelines!

What does this have to do with this thread, if it's that much of a problem don't ride the HM alone.

 

[North of Mouse]

"bouncycat" that started this thread said, "I don't hit TOO many people, unless I can't help it due to them walking in front of me". I have not read this whole thread, but due to a little toddler nearly run down by a ECV in a playground, this caught my eye. Not trying to cause a problem here, just pointing out that this is one of the reasons (maybe) that these leaflets are being handed just to those in mobile devices to be extra vigilant, because this barely 2 yr. old was in her right place and doing what is expected of a child. She could have easily been seriously hurt or killed. These leaflets were for a particular reason, someone in control of a heavy vehicle, not everyone on foot without a heavy machine that would have the "potential" to hurt someone. And the reason I quoted the OP was what she said about not hitting TOO MANY people - say what?? I was one of those and it wasn't my fault. This lady came barreling in to a doorway where I was. The second part of the quote would be understandable. I don't understand why so many are upset about the need for Disney to ask people on mobile devices to be very careful. You're only being "singled out" as some have put it, because you are using one, NOT because of WHY you are using it. I have tried to be diplomatic because some take things the wrong way when none is intended, but I have seen so many reckless ECV drivers (more likely those that may be using them only temporarily) but I also see many courteous, excellent drivers. So I would hope that as with any group, those that need to be reminded would take heed, and those that don't will understand and keep doing what you are doing. Disney has no way of knowing what "few" to hand these leaflets to. This happens in all our lives - the lawful are given rules and regulations that we follow anyway, just like the ones that always break the law get the same rules. I have been told things, or instructed not to do "such and such" in a group when I wouldn't have dreamed of doing it anyway, but I just take it as intended, because I know I'm not guilty. Hope this is taken in the same spirit that I'm writing it in, because it's not meant to offend anyone.

 

[scroot]

I would be almost certain that someone caused damage using a mobility device and then said, "no one told me. .." and Disney was made liable for renting without instruction or allowing an inexperienced driver in without ensuring the safety of other guests.

I do agree that most problems are caused by guests not looking where they are going. My personal favorites are those who walk backwards. But you have to admit the "amatures" in the ecv can be dangerous even after a few days of use.

 

[Pooh2]

Not sure how I would feel if a family member was handed one of these pamphlets but I have been on the other side of the issue:

My husband and I were standing out in an open area at a slow time of day in Epcot, pondering what to do next. A group of 4 woman on ECVs came barrelling around the corner and one yelled at me to get out of the way in a very rude tone and manner. My legs do not work that well so she came pretty close to clipping me.

I know alot of these ECV users are not regular users at home and may not practice the same etiquette as those who are regular EVC users.

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually I think you might be wrong with the above statement. If the person can not self propel the manual chair themselves then it would not be considered equal.

I should clarify my nod.
I thought the OP that pugdog quoted meant that an ECV could be prevented from coming into the parks with an ECV because a manual chair would be equal.
That is not correct.

But, WDW can and does have attractions that are wheelchair accessible, but not ECV accessible. It can be for reasons of space or danger to other guests.
At those attractions, the only option is to transfer to a wheelchair and have someone push the wheelchair. CMs are not required to push it.
There are also some that are designated as 'must be ambulatory', with no Option for guests who can't walk.

 

[icouldlivethere]

We just got back late last night after spending the week at DW. I have my own personal scooter and did not receive a brochure at any of the parks so they must have abandoned the idea of handing them out.

If they are going to give out these types of pamphlets then it should be the type of pamphlet that is for both ECV/WC/strollers AND for those walking.

I completely agree with you Tinker Bell Fan! While there are polite and even helpful people who use ECV/WC/strollers or walk we also saw rude and obnoxious people in all of these categories as well. If DW wants to give etiquette lessons by handing out brochures than they should be sure to give them to stroller users and walkers as well.

While they are at it maybe they should hand out a brochure at the entrance to all bathrooms as well, especially the ladies rooms, letting the ladies know that they should use the toilet seat covers provided instead of hovering over the seat and peeing all over it and then walking away without cleaning it up.

Again handing pamphlets to all guest is just stupid and you would see a huge pile of them just after the turnstiles if they did that, just like when you see someone handing out pamphlets for a political party, you walk 5 feet away from them and the ground is covered in them.

Don't you think the same thing would happen if you handed them out just to ECV/WC users??? Stroller users and walkers are in just as much need of etiquette lessons as anyone else but the only ones who would bother reading the brochures are the ones who don't need lessons and the ones who do need lessons would not only not read them but would use them to litter the ground with instead of properly disposing of them.

There are rude and ignorant people everywhere and a brochure isn't going to change that. While at Disney this week with my personal ECV I had people smash into me with strollers. I even had a small child pushing a stroller smash into me repeatedly until she managed to get the stroller locked onto my ECV all the while her mother was pushing another stroller and looking over her shoulder and watching her child do this and said nothing. We were all headed towards the rest rooms and when we finally got up to them the mother parked her stroller next to the one she was allowing her very small child to push and completely blocked the path to the restroom.

This was not my only encounter with small children who were not being properly supervised and were running around and darting in and out and bumping into me. Maybe we should give brochures to all parents regardless if they are using strollers or not with etiquette lessons on how to properly supervise their children.

While we are at it maybe we should give brochures to anyone who wants to enter the park in groups of 3 or more and educate them in how to walk so as not to block the walkways. I can't tell you how many times we saw large groups of people all walking side by side next to each other in one long line and completely blocking walkways to the point of everyone coming at them from the other direction having to go single file and squeeze themselves way over to the side just to get by them. Would someone please tell me the point of groups walking that way. When you have 6 to 8 people all walking side by side the people on one end can't talk to the people on the other end anyway so why don't they walk in 2 or 3 rows of 2 to 3 people so people from the other direction can get by them?

The point is there are people from all walks of life who have no common sense and who are just plain rude. Unfortunately, they are the ones we all remember the most. They are the same people that won't read any brochure you hand out anyway. I do think most scooter issues come from people who are unfamiliar with using them. It might help if Disney would rent out smaller more maneuverable scooters. The ones they have are big and clunky. We would all benefit from that.

I was disappointed to find out that they aren't allowing scooters in the Space Ranger ride line at the MK anymore. I was given the reason that they line was too narrow but I have taken my scooter into that line every trip up until this time and never had any problem whatsoever maneuvering through that line. Now I have to transfer to a wheelchair and rely on my husband to push me through the line. My ECV gives me freedom to get around on my own and I hate having to transfer to a WC because I feel like that freedom has then been taken away from me, something only somebody who has been in my shoes would understand I'm sure.