New Fast Pass + is a money grab

[Bullseye]

OP, thanks so much for the new information . I hadn't heard any of this in the 10,000 other threads regarding Disney the evil empire and FP+, their master plan to take our money and give us less.

Fast pass is a perk. How about we take it away from everyone and have everyone wait in very single line like they used to? Holy cow people, they don't owe you anything just because you're on vacation. They only owe you a safe place to visit and cast members that won't curse you out. Nothing past that. If you need more, feel free to go elsewhere and leave the parks less crowded for those of us who are still willing to go.

Then we'd all be bellyaching about the same thing.

BTW you're not allowed to tell them not to go to WDW...

"I don't like what Disney is doing , but I'm going to keep going to Disney and I'm going to keep complaining and no one has the right to tell me not to"

 

[boBQuincy]

I agree with your point with regard the subset of individuals that happen to be within the target demographic of each company, but Universal Studios is after a much more narrow audience. Disney thinks that they can still win by investing in families with young children and the elderly, so they are spending their money accordingly. They seem happy to let Universal pull the 14-30 year old park goer, knowing that they will come back when they have children of their own.

Different strategies aimed at different audiences.

Agreed! We don't have children (and are not elderly... yet) but we don't enjoy wild rides. We like the attractions at WDW, Universal does not have much to offer us. Fantasyland Expansion is the kind of experience we hope to see more of at WDW.

We know that not everyone will like where WDW is going (and for them there is Universal) but WDW is doing well by us and we will continue to visit, FP+ and all!

 

[JillianMarie]

I'm glad that FP+ worked for you. But you don't think anything was taken away from you? So you stayed on site and were able to pre-book your FPs?

You didn't have to wait until you arrived, stand in a long line at a kiosk and hope you could get a FP for the ride you wanted?

You didn't mind that you couldn't get FPs at 2 different parks if you wanted to park hop?

You didn't mind that you couldn't get FPs for both Soarin and TT on the same day?

You didn't mind that you couldn't get more than one FP for any headliner? When your kids really, really wanted to ride it multiple times?

You didn't mind that the parks were really crowded and most of the standby lines were long, but you could only get 3 FPs for the whole day?

And you actually experienced a WDW vacation where you weren't faced with computer glitches, disappearing and reappearing reservations, and an unreliable app that might or might not load when you were in the park and wanted to check or modify a reservation?

I'm so happy for you. Me- I have no plans to go near WDW until everything has been rolled out for EVERYONE and Disney has unveiled all of the secrets they seem to be holding back. And even then- alternate vacations are looking better and better all the time.

I went in November and was able to book Soarin' and TT with FP+. There weren't any crowds so we barely used on FP+s. And we don't hop so it wasn't ever an issue. We booked our fp+s in our resort room the night before (or the morning of) without any issues or problems whatsoever.

So, no. Literally NOTHING was taken away from me. Actually, it was better because our plane didn't land until 2 and we were able to book a FP for Soarin' and just walked on instead of maybe not getting to ride it at all.

I'm not saying it was typical (I honestly have no idea) but if people can extrapolate that everything is horrible based on their bad experience, I'm certainly allowed to extrapolate that everything is awesome based on my good experience. But, hey, I get why people don't want to go there. That's cool. To each their own.

 

[boBQuincy]

I went in November and was able to book Soarin' and TT with FP+. There weren't any crowds so we barely used on FP+s. And we don't hop so it wasn't ever an issue. We booked our fp+s in our resort room the night before (or the morning of) without any issues or problems whatsoever.

So, no. Literally NOTHING was taken away from me. Actually, it was better because our plane didn't land until 2 and we were able to book a FP for Soarin' and just walked on instead of maybe not getting to ride it at all.

I'm not saying it was typical (I honestly have no idea) but if people can extrapolate that everything is horrible based on their bad experience, I'm certainly allowed to extrapolate that everything is awesome based on my good experience. But, hey, I get why people don't want to go there. That's cool. To each their own.

Our experience (early December) was about the same, almost completely positive. I communicate with people on this board and understand why and how FP+ negatively affects their touring plans. I understand why they may not return, at least not as often as they used to. Our touring style is different so FP+ (and the rest of My Disney Experience) works for us. I do want to know what the final plans are but I doubt WDW knows either, they may be figuring this out as data comes in.

Anyway, we will continue to visit about three times a year unless something comes along that makes WDW a less happy place for us, and I am not expecting that to happen.

 

[MichiganDVC]

Now if I don't use them they are wasted and besides I will be surprised if Disney down the road does charge you a fee when you don't use the pre booked fastpasses, like they do for missing dinner reservations.

Not gonna happen. If people don't show up for their fastpass, it allows standby line to move more quickly. Its not like a restaurant where there is an empty table waiting for you and you never show.

My biggest concern was park hopping and I told the supervisor working the line to sign up that I can't imagine why anyone that is not a ap holder would waste money to park hop as they are limited to one park for their fast passes.

Even I know that you show up early to one part, do the rope drop standby thing, and then hop to the park with your fast passes. THAT actually encourages park hopping, no?

Moral of the story, folks: Stay onsite. If you want to pay $60 night for a villa 15 minutes away, eat at Cracker Barrel and Pizza Hut every night, and buy your souvenirs at Wal-Mart, more power to you. But this is (temporarily?) a perk of staying onsite. Are you equally upset that the Magical Express is only for onsite guests and you have to rent a car or pay for a taxi or Mears shuttle? Disney is well within its right to give perks to those eating and sleeping on property, as we spend A LOT more money outside of the park than in. And they know it. They want to encourage you to stay onsite so you'll spend ALL of your vacation dollars with them. This might be why they are an extremely profitable and successful corporation...idk.

 

[Bullseye]

Moral of the story, folks: Stay onsite. If you want to pay $60 night for a villa 15 minutes away, eat at Cracker Barrel and Pizza Hut every night, and buy your souvenirs at Wal-Mart, more power to you. But this is (temporarily?) a perk of staying onsite. Are you equally upset that the Magical Express is only for onsite guests and you have to rent a car or pay for a taxi or Mears shuttle? Disney is well within its right to give perks to those eating and sleeping on property, as we spend A LOT more money outside of the park than in. And they know it. They want to encourage you to stay onsite so you'll spend ALL of your vacation dollars with them. This might be why they are an extremely profitable and successful corporation...idk.

You go boy!!

But I will admit I still eat Golden Corral at least once a trip even though I do stay onsite. That's one of the perks of renting a car!

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And in the spirit of fairness, I'll share what I shared on the other thread...

We used FP+ in November for a 3 day trip and I was completely, and I mean completely, prepared to hate it. I was a hater of the plan, the concept, the idea... I only made the reservations because they made me do it when I got the bands. I randomly picked times, parks, rides, fully expecting to not do it and rely on paper passes.

But you know, I used it, didn't pull a single paper pass, and the only reason I got to do all that I did was because of the FP+. Before, while I was doing trip planning, there was a lot of "expect to not do Soarin" and "expect to not do Space" or "we'll have to choose between Peter and Ariel," but I didn't have that with the FP+. Last trip, without a doubt, if we relied on just paper passes, we wouldn't have gotten to do Soarin and Space or Splash.

I have to say, it worked pretty well. It definitely helped us maximize our time. With this next trip, because of our touring plan, despite being there 7 days, we only did Soarin once and it was a "almost missed it" situation, too. We took the dregs of times with the paper passes. This next trip we'll have a similar touring plan, more restrictive even as we're accommodating a race, but I know for a fact we'll be able to do at least Soarin twice despite not being able to hit EPCOT in the AM at all. That's a huge comfort actually.

 

[MichiganDVC]

My FP+ plan for my one-day Disney visit this February...

I am visiting my folks south of Tampa for several days in February. My AP expires on Feb 21, so I wanted to get one last day out of it. We're leaving their condo at 6:00am and hope to arrive at MK by 8:00am. (opens at 9:00am) Never been to rope drop at MK as an adult (may have as a kid, but don't remember.)

FYI - Anticipated ride times based on Josh's EasyWDW cheat sheet: http://www.easywdw.com/cheatsheets/mk_cheat_sheet_fastpass_plus.pdf
9am - 11pm Crowd Level 9

Ride one: Buzz Lightyear, immediately. 9:00-9:15
Ride two: Little Mermaid or Winnie the Pooh, 9:20-9:40
Ride three: Dumbo or Barnstormer, 9:40-9:55
Ride four: FP+ Peter Pan, 10:00-10:15
Ride five: Small World, 10:20-10:35
Ride six: Haunted Mansion: 10:35-10:55
Ride seven: FP+ BTMRR, 11:00-11:20.
Ride eight: Pirates, 11:30-11:50
Ride nine: FP+ Jungle Cruise, 12:00-?

Might I have to skip something if the standby lines are a little longer than anticipated? Maybe. Might I be able to do Pooh and Mermaid if wait times are lower than expected or if the park opens at 8:45am? Possibly. Point is, I'm going to ride 8-10 rides between 9:00am and 12:30pm. We are then leaving the park to check in at Boardwalk, lay at the pool, and head over to Epcot for EMH and beer. Might we ride Spaceship Earth or Gran Fiesta while we're there? Sure. Maybe Maelstrom if the wait times are 25 min or less (time to finish beer in the line...)

Point is, this is a pretty awesome day at WDW. With FP+, I've been able to plan my Magic Kingdom morning to hit nearly every ride that I would ever do anyway. By 1:00pm, the place is a madhouse so I wouldn't stay even if I had spare time. I'll have pool time and an evening at Epcot to eat and drink and watch some fireworks. Honestly, without FP+, I probably wouldn't have time to do Pan, BTMRR, and Jungle Cruise between 9:00am-12:00pm without running across the park several times or skipping my other 5+ rides.

Granted, I'm not doing ETWB or Space/Splash mountains. But if I WAS, I would make Pan and the Mountains FP+ priority #1 for 1:00pm-4:00pm. I would get there at Rope Drop and do everything else standby.

FP+ really can work to your advantage if you know what to do. If I was staying longer (and I am in June), I would do the same thing every day. Can you imagine walking into AK knowing that Kali, Safari, and Everest were already reserved for you at times you found convenient?! Not that I would ever go on EE again...

 

[johde]

A US corporation doesn't spend a self-reported billion dollars plus on a system that ISN'T a targeted money grab...

While you have a point, the question is would it be the blatant money grabs some of the people on various this and other threads have suggested, i.e. $15 for a tier 1 FP. Or if it is going to be more subtler as others have suggested. I couldn't find the information I was looking for but this is theme park attendance information for all Disney parks world wide from 1991 - 2011

It's a bit hard to read but the Orlando Theme parks are Boxes on the graph. 2012 figures are 17.5 million for MK about 11 million for Epcot and About 10 Million each for DHS and AK.

While not as high as some year in the past, notice the slow and fairly steady increase in attendance. Even the "great recession" is barely a blip. Extend the graph out a few years and FP+ may be about squeezing more people into the parks with managed outlays on new attractions.

Universal was looking for the big score from WWOHP and saw a 29% increase in attendance. Disney was looking for the same thing Carsland and saw a 22% increase in attendance. New Fantasy Land was barely a blip, but was it ever design to be any more.

FP+ roll out has been rocky to say the least. Although a friend of mine who doesn't go to Disney who stayed onsite early December really enjoyed it.

 

[Laketravis]

Okay, that graph just gave me a headache......

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

My FP+ plan for my one-day Disney visit this February...

I am visiting my folks south of Tampa for several days in February. My AP expires on Feb 21, so I wanted to get one last day out of it. We're leaving their condo at 6:00am and hope to arrive at MK by 8:00am. (opens at 9:00am) Never been to rope drop at MK as an adult (may have as a kid, but don't remember.)

FYI - Anticipated ride times based on Josh's EasyWDW cheat sheet: http://www.easywdw.com/cheatsheets/mk_cheat_sheet_fastpass_plus.pdf
9am - 11pm Crowd Level 9

Ride one: Buzz Lightyear, immediately. 9:00-9:15
Ride two: Little Mermaid or Winnie the Pooh, 9:20-9:40
Ride three: Dumbo or Barnstormer, 9:40-9:55
Ride four: FP+ Peter Pan, 10:00-10:15
Ride five: Small World, 10:20-10:35
Ride six: Haunted Mansion: 10:35-10:55
Ride seven: FP+ BTMRR, 11:00-11:20.
Ride eight: Pirates, 11:30-11:50
Ride nine: FP+ Jungle Cruise, 12:00-?

Might I have to skip something if the standby lines are a little longer than anticipated of it park opens at 8:45am? Maybe. Might I be able to do Pooh and Mermaid if wait times are lower than expected? Possibly. Point is, I'm going to ride 8-10 rides between 9:00am and 12:30pm. We are then leaving the park to check in at Boardwalk, lay at the pool, and head over to Epcot for EMH and beer. Might we ride Spaceship Earth or Gran Fiesta while we're there? Sure. Maybe Maelstrom if the wait times are 25 min or less (time to finish beer in the line...)

Point is, with FP+, I've been able to plan my Magic Kingdom morning to hit nearly every ride that I would ever do anyway. By 1:00pm, the place is a madhouse so I wouldn't stay even if I had spare time.

Granted, I'm not doing ETWB or Space/Splash mountains. But if I WAS, I would make Pan and the Mountains FP+ priority #1 for 1:00pm-4:00pm. I would get there at Rope Drop and do everything else standby.

I have no idea about Josh or EasyWDW, but that plan is wayyyyy too optimistic for President's week.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

My FP+ plan for my one-day Disney visit this February...

I am visiting my folks south of Tampa for several days in February. My AP expires on Feb 21, so I wanted to get one last day out of it. We're leaving their condo at 6:00am and hope to arrive at MK by 8:00am. (opens at 9:00am) Never been to rope drop at MK as an adult (may have as a kid, but don't remember.)

FYI - Anticipated ride times based on Josh's EasyWDW cheat sheet: http://www.easywdw.com/cheatsheets/mk_cheat_sheet_fastpass_plus.pdf
9am - 11pm Crowd Level 9

Ride one: Buzz Lightyear, immediately. 9:00-9:15
Ride two: Little Mermaid or Winnie the Pooh, 9:20-9:40
Ride three: Dumbo or Barnstormer, 9:40-9:55
Ride four: FP+ Peter Pan, 10:00-10:15
Ride five: Small World, 10:20-10:35
Ride six: Haunted Mansion: 10:35-10:55
Ride seven: FP+ BTMRR, 11:00-11:20.
Ride eight: Pirates, 11:30-11:50
Ride nine: FP+ Jungle Cruise, 12:00-?

Might I have to skip something if the standby lines are a little longer than anticipated? Maybe. Might I be able to do Pooh and Mermaid if wait times are lower than expected or if the park opens at 8:45am? Possibly. Point is, I'm going to ride 8-10 rides between 9:00am and 12:30pm. We are then leaving the park to check in at Boardwalk, lay at the pool, and head over to Epcot for EMH and beer. Might we ride Spaceship Earth or Gran Fiesta while we're there? Sure. Maybe Maelstrom if the wait times are 25 min or less (time to finish beer in the line...)

Point is, with FP+, I've been able to plan my Magic Kingdom morning to hit nearly every ride that I would ever do anyway. By 1:00pm, the place is a madhouse so I wouldn't stay even if I had spare time.

Granted, I'm not doing ETWB or Space/Splash mountains. But if I WAS, I would make Pan and the Mountains FP+ priority #1 for 1:00pm-4:00pm. I would get there at Rope Drop and do everything else standby.

I think that plan is a bit ambitious, and I'm not sure, as an AP person, don't you have to go to the kiosk to make your reservations? Have to build time in for that as well.

I also have a hard time with any touring plan that suggests starting with Buzz... I'd start in New FL and work clockwise, FP Peter, Pirates, and Space. But I also always skip Toontown or whatever it's called now. Overall, I'd think you can hit maybe 6-7, but not all 9.

 

[awilliams4]

I already know 12 families that are no longer going as a result because they can only afford to stay offsite.

Wow, I don't even know 12 people that even know about FP+ much less 12 whole families that are all making the same decision to quit going to a destination due to a change in FP that has been out just a couple of months now.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I have no idea about Josh or EasyWDW, but that plan is wayyyyy too optimistic for President's week.

I think that plan is a bit ambitious, and I'm not sure, as an AP person, don't you have to go to the kiosk to make your reservations? Have to build time in for that as well.

I also have a hard time with any touring plan that suggests starting with Buzz... I'd start in New FL and work clockwise, FP Peter, Pirates, and Space. But I also always skip Toontown or whatever it's called now. Overall, I'd think you can hit maybe 6-7, but not all 9.

1. I think you're both underestimating the lower crowds at 9:00am. I am attempting to ride 6 rides before 11:15am. After that, wait times are significantly higher.

2. Since I already have MB due to a previous stay in November, I have already made my FP+ reservations. Pan at 10, BTMRR at 11, JC at 12. Everything else in-between.

3. I am starting at Buzz because everyone goes to FL first and because I have a FP for Pan at 10. If I start there and then try to backtrack to Buzz, it will either be too crowded by then or I'll never make it back to Haunted Mansion or BTMRR in time. And I like to go in a circle

 

[MichiganDVC]

Just 5 minutes ago (at 3:25pm EST) I attempted to make 3 FP+ reservations at MK: Pan, ETWB, and Space mountain. All three were available between 5:00pm and 8:30pm.

I know its MLK,jr day weekend, but I know its not the busiest day of the weekend...Josh says a "6."

Regardless, this might be interesting information for people who think that making FP+ reservations 60 days out ties you to those rides and times for life. They can be altered, even day of.
If you decide to change parks that morning, you can still make FP+ reservations.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

1. I think you're both underestimating the lower crowds at 9:00am. I am attempting to ride 6 rides before 11:15am. After that, wait times are significantly higher.

2. Since I already have MB due to a previous stay in November, I have already made my FP+ reservations. Pan at 10, BTMRR at 11, JC at 12. Everything else in-between.

3. I am starting at Buzz because everyone goes to FL first and because I have a FP for Pan at 10. If I start there and then try to backtrack to Buzz, it will either be too crowded by then or I'll never make it back to Haunted Mansion or BTMRR in time. And I like to go in a circle

I don't know, when I went on my 7/8/9 weekend, there was no way that all could have been done. Fantasyland, especially Pooh and Ariel, were swamped with waits by 10. Ariel was like 10-15, Pooh was like 30. By 11, PotC was 40 minutes as was Space, Splash, and Thunder. Again, I always skip Toontown so I don't know what the waits look like, but I think, especially starting in the part of the park with the lightest crowds, you're still aiming really, really high.

 

[johde]

1. I think you're both underestimating the lower crowds at 9:00am. I am attempting to ride 6 rides before 11:15am. After that, wait times are significantly higher.

2. Since I already have MB due to a previous stay in November, I have already made my FP+ reservations. Pan at 10, BTMRR at 11, JC at 12. Everything else in-between.

3. I am starting at Buzz because everyone goes to FL first and because I have a FP for Pan at 10. If I start there and then try to backtrack to Buzz, it will either be too crowded by then or I'll never make it back to Haunted Mansion or BTMRR in time. And I like to go in a circle

Playing around with touring plans personalized plans, it looks like a reasonable plan. With any luck you may be able to get everything in. That being said, you're only saving an hour over their recommended plan with no FP+ and most of that is BTMRR and PP that they save till towards the end. Which starts at Dumbo/barnstormer then loops around the park finishing at PP. You wait for PP but you get 5 rides in in the first hour.

 

[magicbob]

I always skip Toontown so I don't know what the waits look like

I hear the waits for Toontown are very reasonable these days.

 

[Cinderella's slipper]

I hear the waits for Toontown are very reasonable these days.

 

[magicbob]

I hear the waits for Toontown are very reasonable these days.

But, to be fair, Barnstormer/Goofini is still the same ride in the same location even if it's now considered part of the FL expansion.

And for those of you having Toontown withdrawal, DL version is better than WDW's ever was. The area is much more immersive and there is a fun Roger Rabbit ride located there.