New Disney Ships: News, Rumors, Speculation.....and Names!

[disneycruise100]

No way that servers calculations could have been right. New ships are rediculously expensive. I don’t have time to do the research, but I file this in the exaggeration category.

The Disney Magic and Wonder cost $350 million dollars each... The Dream costs $900 million and the Fantasy was $940 million.

While I don't doubt that Disney has the money in their pockets, I don't think they'd be willing to spend that much money on a refurb.

 

[Spork24]

Also with noting, building a magic class ship in 2018 would probably be almost double 1990’s pricing.

 

[disneycruise100]

Also with noting, building a magic class ship in 2018 would probably be almost double 1990’s pricing.

Funny enough.. I actually did the math on an inflation calculator. The Magic and Wonder would cost almost $600 million each today.

 

[WaywardMemphian]

If we go through Disney's 2017 financials, we see that pretty much every segment saw revenue and operating income declines. Including studio entertainment (with income DOWN 13%) - as much as everyone would like to believe in the Marvel / Star Wars franchises.

The one glaring exception was parks and resorts (which DCL is a part of), whose operating income climbed 14%!

For Iger's team, the writing is on the wall. They need to leverage the secular growth in themed vacations and global branded travel. I am expecting them to announce a mix (or all) of the following over the next few years:

* A new resort in the Mediterranean opening in the same time frame as the new ships
* ~3 to 5 new ships to enter service between 2026 and 2030
* An additional resort closer to the southern Asian large populations but in the sun (such as in Singapore or Dubai) opening between 2026 and 2030

By the 2025-2030 timeframe, they can retire the Magic and Wonder - or just convert them to stationary resorts.

While ABD is currently niche-y, I also expect it to go mainstream once the new ships and resorts open up the supply chain to other parts of the world.

Good times ahead.

I've said numerous times that Disney should put a boat or two on the Mississippi. The Steamboat Willy if you will. Build a resort near Tunica MS and utilize it's landing and a Disney sans Marvel park but build a Marvel park on the Arkansas side of the River. A new bridge would connect I-69 to I-40 on the Arkansas side, it would also have light rail connecting the resorts and park on each side to the other. The resorts coupled with a nice water park make make a great start/stop/mid point to Disney themed river cruises. The open area Kinda reminds me of the Orlando area before Disney. Memphis has an empty airport that has plenty of commercial traffic room that's not dominated by a single carrier anymore and the bills are paid via it being the second largest cargo airport in the world. Just me spitballing.

As for the ship retirements, I doubt it. Too many smaller niche markets that could be served. All the need would more extensive drydocks. A smaller one may stay for longer spells in Galveston.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I've said numerous times that Disney should put a boat or two on the Mississippi.

With their current set up, they can't. A foreign flagged vessel cannot transport passengers between two different US cities (as many of the Mississippi cruises do) without a stop in a distant foreign port

As a distant foreign port is any port NOT "in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." there aren't many of them along the route of the Mississippi.

 

[DIS_MIKE]

I hate to be the one to say this... But at least one person has to wonder if the Magic/Wonder retirement conversation is on the table. I get that they're rated for many more years.. But most major cruise lines start getting rid of ships around the age of 25 or so.

You raise a valid point but the the Magic and Wonder won't be sold off or scrapped anytime soon. The Wonder just finished it's refurbishment so it will be sailing under the Disney name for at least another 10 years.

To put things into better perspective: The Queen Mary was in service for 30 years before it was permanently moored as a hotel and tourist attraction in Long Beach, CA. Disney actually owned it for a time.

Carnival has had their Fantasy ship in service since 1990.

The SS United States has an amazing story (it's worth a Google search) but the airline industry put her out of service in 1969. She was completely gutted years ago due to all the asbestos and towed to Philadelphia in 1996 where she's still berthed to this day. Crystal Cruise Lines was rumored to purchase the ship a few years ago and they even did a feasibility study on it but they scrapped their plans. The ship is still in amazing shape but it definitely needs a good sandblast and new paint.

She can certainly sail again if the right investors were on board. Will it be scrapped? Probably and it's a shame because it's such an iconic ship with its career cut short. The ship was completely constructed in the US and it has the name to prove it. It even still holds the record for the fastest Transatlantic voyage earning the Blue Riband- a title often held by the British.

So...the Magic & Wonder both have a lot of sea life left in them.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the SS United States, send me a PM and I'll be glad to provide you with some good reading material as well as participating in the conservancy efforts.

 

[Spork24]

You raise a valid point but the the Magic and Wonder won't be sold off or scrapped anytime soon. The Wonder just finished it's refurbishment so it will be sailing under the Disney name for at least another 10 years.

To put things into better perspective: The Queen Mary was in service for 30 years before it was permanently moored as a hotel and tourist attraction in Long Beach, CA. Disney actually owned it for a time.

Carnival has had their Fantasy ship in service since 1990.

The SS United States has an amazing story (it's worth a Google search) but the airline industry put her out of service in 1969. She was completely gutted years ago due to all the asbestos and towed to Philadelphia in 1996 where she's still berthed to this day. Crystal Cruise Lines was rumored to purchase the ship a few years ago and they even did a feasibility study on it but they scrapped their plans. The ship is still in amazing shape but it definitely needs a good sandblast and new paint.

She can certainly sail again if the right investors were on board. Will it be scrapped? Probably and it's a shame because it's such an iconic ship with its career cut short. The ship was completely constructed in the US and it has the name to prove it. It even still holds the record for the fastest Transatlantic voyage earning the Blue Riband- a title often held by the British.

So...the Magic & Wonder both have a lot of sea life left in them.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the SS United States, send me a PM and I'll be glad to provide you with some good reading material as well as participating in the conservancy efforts.

Sure the classic ships have a lot of miles left on their keels, but many premium lines sell of their older ships as they age to invest in newer more economical (higher margin) ships. As Disney Hasn’t been around as long as the other lines we still don’t really know Disney’s philosophy on retiring (selling) older ships.

Only time will tell.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Sure the classic ships have a lot of miles left on their keels, but many premium lines sell of their older ships as they age to invest in newer more economical (higher margin) ships. As Disney Hasn’t been around as long as the other lines we still don’t really know Disney’s philosophy on retiring (selling) older ships.

Only time will tell.

I'm not sure whether DCL is looking to "retire" the older ships. Since the new ships are big ones (same as the Dream class), they may want to keep the smaller ships for those itineraries that don't sell as well. Many cruise lines use their smaller ships for the longer cruises, to destinations that not as many people can either afford (time or money) to get to. Like Australia, China, Japan.

 

[Spork24]

I'm not sure whether DCL is looking to "retire" the older ships. Since the new ships are big ones (same as the Dream class), they may want to keep the smaller ships for those itineraries that don't sell as well. Many cruise lines use their smaller ships for the longer cruises, to destinations that not as many people can either afford (time or money) to get to. Like Australia, China, Japan.

I agree with you that they likely aren’t selling them soon, but we won’t know their thoughts on it until it happens or it doesn’t.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I agree with you that they likely aren’t selling them soon, but we won’t know their thoughts on it until it happens or it doesn’t.

Yeah, as with all things DCL, only Disney knows what they're doing. And, even then, I have my doubts, on occasion.

 

[Spork24]

I've said numerous times that Disney should put a boat or two on the Mississippi. The Steamboat Willy if you will. Build a resort near Tunica MS and utilize it's landing and a Disney sans Marvel park but build a Marvel park on the Arkansas side of the River. A new bridge would connect I-69 to I-40 on the Arkansas side, it would also have light rail connecting the resorts and park on each side to the other. The resorts coupled with a nice water park make make a great start/stop/mid point to Disney themed river cruises. The open area Kinda reminds me of the Orlando area before Disney. Memphis has an empty airport that has plenty of commercial traffic room that's not dominated by a single carrier anymore and the bills are paid via it being the second largest cargo airport in the world. Just me spitballing.

As for the ship retirements, I doubt it. Too many smaller niche markets that could be served. All the need would more extensive drydocks. A smaller one may stay for longer spells in Galveston.

There’s many problems with this Tunica MS plan, First and Foremost Disney has spent a lot of money trying to keep casinos out of FL. Why intentionally move somewhere with the direct competition of another industry. Disney doesn’t want a split of vacation dollars, they want all of them.

 

[CaptainKat]

I love the name Disney Star; I hadn't thought of that one! You could put Peter Pan and maybe Tink on the aft, maybe the Blue Fairy with Pinocchio in the atrium. I also like the idea of Snow White in the atrium; you could make her statue with one of the dwarfs (I would bet Dopey), then incorporate the others into the staircases that rise on either side of the statue. Names we'd been kicking around in our family that I don't see on the list are the Disney Vision, Adventure, and Journey.

Itinerary-wise, I'm of the thinking that the newest ships will stick to the Caribbean for the most part. The demand will be high to sail on the newest ships, which will likely bring in the repeat cruisers who maybe weren't intending to cruise the Caribbean itineraries again, while the older ships are likely to draw more people to sail on them if they're going to new places. The smallest ships are also a safer bet for trying out the very new (for DCL at least) itineraries in Asia and such. Does the Wonder have additional hull reinforcement for the Alaska itineraries? If so I'd guess they'd keep it on those, with the possibility that one of the three new ships might be built to join it, since Alaska seems to be popular. If they don't need any ice hull adjustments, I could see the Wonder moved out across the Pacific to try out Asia and Australia, with the Dream or Fantasy taking over Alaska for summer with the larger capacity and returning to the Caribbean for winter. This could increase the Hawaii/SoCal offerings as well. I could see the Magic being moved to Europe close to full time as well, perhaps moving seasonally between Britain/Norway/Northern Mediterranean and Southern Mediterranean (Morocco, Egypt, etc.). The other of the Dream/Fantasy could join in the summer, and return to Canaveral in the winter. Like the Hawaii/SoCal itineraries, this would provide a chance to increase some of the cruises out of NYC as well. In the end, they would maintain the at least 2 ships in summer, 4 ships in winter at Canaveral that they already have, with the smaller ships free to explore some new and wild itineraries full time. The third new ship is the wild card I think, 3 or 5 ships out of Canaveral seems like a lot. But there's always the potential for longer sailings that go much further south maybe.

I too would throw ungodly amounts of money at a sailing that linked the Asian parks.

 

[Spork24]

I love the name Disney Star; I hadn't thought of that one! You could put Peter Pan and maybe Tink on the aft, maybe the Blue Fairy with Pinocchio in the atrium. I also like the idea of Snow White in the atrium; you could make her statue with one of the dwarfs (I would bet Dopey), then incorporate the others into the staircases that rise on either side of the statue. Names we'd been kicking around in our family that I don't see on the list are the Disney Vision, Adventure, and Journey.

Itinerary-wise, I'm of the thinking that the newest ships will stick to the Caribbean for the most part. The demand will be high to sail on the newest ships, which will likely bring in the repeat cruisers who maybe weren't intending to cruise the Caribbean itineraries again, while the older ships are likely to draw more people to sail on them if they're going to new places. The smallest ships are also a safer bet for trying out the very new (for DCL at least) itineraries in Asia and such. Does the Wonder have additional hull reinforcement for the Alaska itineraries? If so I'd guess they'd keep it on those, with the possibility that one of the three new ships might be built to join it, since Alaska seems to be popular. If they don't need any ice hull adjustments, I could see the Wonder moved out across the Pacific to try out Asia and Australia, with the Dream or Fantasy taking over Alaska for summer with the larger capacity and returning to the Caribbean for winter. This could increase the Hawaii/SoCal offerings as well. I could see the Magic being moved to Europe close to full time as well, perhaps moving seasonally between Britain/Norway/Northern Mediterranean and Southern Mediterranean (Morocco, Egypt, etc.). The other of the Dream/Fantasy could join in the summer, and return to Canaveral in the winter. Like the Hawaii/SoCal itineraries, this would provide a chance to increase some of the cruises out of NYC as well. In the end, they would maintain the at least 2 ships in summer, 4 ships in winter at Canaveral that they already have, with the smaller ships free to explore some new and wild itineraries full time. The third new ship is the wild card I think, 3 or 5 ships out of Canaveral seems like a lot. But there's always the potential for longer sailings that go much further south maybe.

I too would throw ungodly amounts of money at a sailing that linked the Asian parks.

Don’t forget as mentioned isn this thread, The dream class can’t go through the Panama Canal, so don’t expect seasonal crossings to the pacific.

 

[CaptainKat]

Don’t forget as mentioned isn this thread, The dream class can’t go through the Panama Canal, so don’t expect seasonal crossings to the pacific.

You're right, I missed that bit! Maybe both Magic class out in the pacific in summer and the Dreams in Europe? Then you could bring the Dream class back to PC for winter, and the Magic class could come back or explore some other itineraries in the Pacific that will still be warm in winter, Hawaii or Australia, for example. There's so many different ways they could decide to do this! Or at least it seems that way since we don't have access to all the info I'm sure Disney does.

 

[Spork24]

You're right, I missed that bit! Maybe both Magic class out in the pacific in summer and the Dreams in Europe? Then you could bring the Dream class back to PC for winter, and the Magic class could come back or explore some other itineraries in the Pacific that will still be warm in winter, Hawaii or Australia, for example. There's so many different ways they could decide to do this! Or at least it seems that way since we don't have access to all the info I'm sure Disney does.

I see one of the new ships (or dream class) working Alaska and remaining in the pacific year round and the wonder doing the Alaska iteneraries as well and wintering in the gulf. You could mix in a more diverse group of iteneraries in Alaska with a second ship and I think the demand would be there.

I think 3 larger ships (dream class or new) work The gulf in summer, and magic and 1 dream class (or new class) work Europe in summer. 1 Europe ship will head stateside for winter and the other may head through suez to Australia and South Pacific to winter.

 

[Agent 86]

All of this speculation about one of the ships possibly making their way down under to Australia for part of the year makes me very excited as an Aussie!

 

[Spork24]

All of this speculation about one of the ships possibly making their way down under to Australia for part of the year makes me very excited as an Aussie!

I’m an American, but it would excite me too. I don’t see seven ships operating in the carribean in winter so you have to send them somewhere. Australia might not even be every year, but you have to think they will look at it. The seasons being opposite is a huge factor.

 

[Flossbolna]

Don’t forget as mentioned isn this thread, The dream class can’t go through the Panama Canal, so don’t expect seasonal crossings to the pacific.

As far as I know, the Dream class easily fits through the new locks at the Panama Canal.

As to the question of spending so much money on refurbishing the classics: I have heard (not directly, but the supposed original source would be more in the management area, not a CM on a ship) that DCL originally had an option with Meyer Werft for two more ships after Dream and Fantasy. They let that option expire and then shortly afterwards regretted it and then had to get in line behind all the other orders at a time when the cruise industry is booming. So, I think it might have been a question of being forced to invest a lot of money into the Magic and Wonder in order to keep them attractive enough while they wait for more ships.

I still think that they plan to keep them around for quite a while, but they will go and do more exotic itineraries. DCL has figured out that anything out of the ordinary sells great if they only offer it once in a while.

 

[scgustafson]

As far as I know, the Dream class easily fits through the new locks at the Panama Canal.

As to the question of spending so much money on refurbishing the classics: I have heard (not directly, but the supposed original source would be more in the management area, not a CM on a ship) that DCL originally had an option with Meyer Werft for two more ships after Dream and Fantasy. They let that option expire and then shortly afterwards regretted it and then had to get in line behind all the other orders at a time when the cruise industry is booming. So, I think it might have been a question of being forced to invest a lot of money into the Magic and Wonder in order to keep them attractive enough while they wait for more ships.

I still think that they plan to keep them around for quite a while, but they will go and do more exotic itineraries. DCL has figured out that anything out of the ordinary sells great if they only offer it once in a while.

The newer ships (Disney Dream and Disney Fantasy) do fit in the new locks, but their height is too tall to clear the Bridge of the Americas. So unless DCL gets out the cutters and torches to take down stacks and some additional parts of the superstructure, the newer ships will never be able to transit the Panama Canal successfully.

 

[Snowwhyt]

Since the names are already picked out for each of the new ships, (but to speak the name is bad luck so they use the hull number), how many people do you think know the name? When is unlucky no longer an issue and when do they make it public?
More importantly, who do you think knows the name?
I was on the Wonder a few days ago and on the Art of Theme Tour the guide explanation this distinction. I don’t think they are allowed to go off script and make stuff up so I believe her on this.