New Disney Resort Project?

[doconeill]

There are a number of us who think SSR was devalued when PI closed...

+ 2

Hey, I said that!!!

 

[yekcoh_99]

Screamscape is reporting this, but it is weird - they claim the "Tri Circle D Ranch area, the nearby beach area along the lake and the former River Country property may all be planned to be leveled sometime next summer, to clear the site to make way for a brand new mega Disney resort project."
The Tri-Circle D Ranch is on the opposite side of FW from RC, and there is no "nearby beach area" to either.
Anyways, I think this is just a re-iteration of the "Fort Wilderness Junction/Buffalo Junction" project that got dug up recently and people are taking it to be something new.

Again you baffle me with this statement... am I the only one who see's TCD Ranch abutted up against RC?
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=28.410877&lon=-81.564045&z=19&l=0&m=b
Are you thinking of the riding stables at the entrance to FW?

It will be new, IF they build it and I for one think it would be great. As others have stated it's a great location and the smallest DVC property I know I'll being anxiously awaiting. But I do know it is just a rumor. But a good one.

 

[doconeill]

Again you baffle me with this statement... am I the only one who see's TCD Ranch abutted up against RC?
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=28.410877&lon=-81.564045&z=19&l=0&m=b
Are you thinking of the riding stables at the entrance to FW?

It will be new, IF they build it and I for one think it would be great. As others have stated it's a great location and the smallest DVC property I know I'll being anxiously awaiting. But I do know it is just a rumor. But a good one.

OK, apparently I am confusing the location of the ranch with the stables at the opposite corner of FW, near the entrance.

 

[yekcoh_99]

OK, apparently I am confusing the location of the ranch with the stables at the opposite corner of FW, near the entrance.

No problem we all have those days...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Or put another way, there are people out there that feel that Saratoga Springs killed DVC, true or not and will bash SSR regardless. In actuallity, what seems to be more and more the case is that the SSR bashing has reduced (for the record before SSR, Old Key West was the bashee) and many people are beginning to enjoy the resort. As for availability, again an easy scapegoat when someone doesn't get what they want. Truth is, I have traded out and stayed at most of the resorts at WDW, so being able to stay at other resorts being gone is a bit dramatic.

Long story short, DVC added a ton of members (40% more) and that created a feeding frenzy for all the resorts as people wanted to stay at as many resorts as they could, just to try them out. As the years have gone by with SSR owners, that has begun to subside as members have had that opportunity and are not as anxiously shopping around. The new shoppers are actually AKV and they have begun to receive some bashings since the opening of Kidani. The "new" kids will always be the outcast.

I agree with alot of your points...and completely agree that somebody is always going to be the scapegoat...

I do differ in that i believe that saratoga has earned it more than others. The point chart is the big one...they got greedy by trying to "slide in" a point value on saratoga that is just off what the other frontline DVCs charge...but clearly they offer less for the points. the lack of a walkable/ short trip gate is a huge discrepancy...and has been so for OKW, and the Port/ Dixie since their construction as well. OKW...while frequently a whipping boy...allows a better value for your points...you can get much more vacation out of it - so that is a redeemer in my book.
Animal Kingdom is a classic WDW "fix" scenario. I worked in resorts at the time of its' construction/ opening (the original lodge) and Disney's and particularly Michael Eisner's expectations of its appeal were way off. The room rates were decreased significantly in 2002 - 8 months after the doors opened.
DVC is a quiet way to "reclaim" what they perceive as lost revenue at AKL. Build 'em...and people will use em, right?
some say its location...some say its proximity to animals...some say transportation...they may all be right.
But the straight forward, non-BS reason for the struggles of AKL and what will be the struggles of AKV is that the Disney clientele by and large doesn't like the African Theme.
I said it...let's not ignore it.
I have no doubts...and AKV was bound to become a "lower" end DVC location and have lots of headaches/ complaints from owners because of what it is.
A good, full day ANIMAL KINGDOM PARK would help this problem...but we know that's not anywhere near a priority.

so yes, i see what you mean...there's always going to be a whipping boy. But that doesn't mean saratoga isn't what it is. A reclamation project that was built too large, hurried into construction, built with few new facilities...overpriced in points...and let's face it: built to funnel you into Days of Christmas and World of Disney.

But my hope is that new DVCs (anyone doubt they're coming soon?) will be of the BLT variety - prime locations. That will mitigate the damage of the two "repair" spots (SSR and AKV) when it comes to choice, appeal, distribution of demand.
I bet if i went to the parking lot outside of Grand Floridain right now with a shovel and started digging the heavy equipment would be along sooner than later to take over

 

[movie77]

But the straight forward, non-BS reason for the struggles of AKL and what will be the struggles of AKV is that the Disney clientele by and large doesn't like the African Theme.
I said it...let's not ignore it.
I have no doubts...and AKV was bound to become a "lower" end DVC location and have lots of headaches/ complaints from owners because of what it is.
A good, full day ANIMAL KINGDOM PARK would help this problem...but we know that's not anywhere near a priority.

QUOTE]

huh? We love AKL theming and most of what I've heard from other owners is they do as well. It's a little far to MK, but the rest of the parks are close enough. It would be cool if they developed some mode of transportation between AKL and AK.

 

[Uncleromulus]

I'll agree OKW isn't a superior locale IF you take a bus and IF all you are interested in is the Theme Parks.
But for a quiet atmosphere, great (larger than any other DVC units) rooms, lots of pools, good value for the # of points--it's the very best DVC property bar none. Having a car only enhances that experience.

 

[troynkasey]

But the straight forward, non-BS reason for the struggles of AKL and what will be the struggles of AKV is that the Disney clientele by and large doesn't like the African Theme.

I disagree completely on your comments regarding AKV. To state that Disney folks don't like the theming is so far off base it's not even funny. There are plenty on the dis boards that love the theming and love the combination of animals and the african theme. The key thing Disney is doing with the DVC locations is giving people options. And options that aren't like others. Thats why the AKV was built. It's different and it's the draw people to that part of the world to hopefully get more of a draw to AK. SSR is no different. Yes in my opinion it's lacking some amenities like the other DVC, but I think it also appeals to those who wanted a timeshare option, but didn't need or want the Disney influence. It's more of a traditional timeshare and folks can vacation at the resort and enjoy themselves without going to the parks.

What you essentially did with your post was take your opinion and standardize it across the board as the norm or what is happening and I'm pretty sure that is not the case at all. Read threads, reviews, etc on the resorts. There's always going to be people who love the resorts and who don't care for them and won't go back....but ultimately...people will continue to stay because they want to try something new or it's their preference.

 

[troynkasey]

I'll agree OKW isn't a superior locale IF you take a bus and IF all you are interested in is the Theme Parks.
But for a quiet atmosphere, great (larger than any other DVC units) rooms, lots of pools, good value for the # of points--it's the very best DVC property bar none. Having a car only enhances that experience.

I agree completely and know many who like SSR for the same reason as well as the close proximity to DTD. Each DVC has a different draw and a niche market that it satisfies. And not all DVC resorts will fit into all our needs, so I'm not sure how we can state they've missed the mark. Some meet the needs more of the mass, but that's how it goes sometimes...

 

[doconeill]

I'll agree OKW isn't a superior locale IF you take a bus and IF all you are interested in is the Theme Parks.
But for a quiet atmosphere, great (larger than any other DVC units) rooms, lots of pools, good value for the # of points--it's the very best DVC property bar none. Having a car only enhances that experience.

SSR could have been the same, except they used "standard" sized rooms and made them more points (so they could sell more). I've mentioned before, that we liked the idea of being able to walk/boat to PI whenever we wanted, so that was a draw. But Disney took that away.

As for AKL/AKV, we've stayed there once, and will stay there again. Yes, it's a distance away from most everything, but the theme is GREAT. I really don't think the theme had anything to do with it. I think the perceived value of paying monorail resort prices for a place at the extreme end of the property was a bigger factor.

Had I known now what I knew then (and they were selling at the time), we would have bought AKV.

 

[anthony2k7]

Animal Kingdom is a classic WDW "fix" scenario. I worked in resorts at the time of its' construction/ opening (the original lodge) and Disney's and particularly Michael Eisner's expectations of its appeal were way off. The room rates were decreased significantly in 2002 - 8 months after the doors opened.
DVC is a quiet way to "reclaim" what they perceive as lost revenue at AKL. Build 'em...and people will use em, right?
some say its location...some say its proximity to animals...some say transportation...they may all be right.
But the straight forward, non-BS reason for the struggles of AKL and what will be the struggles of AKV is that the Disney clientele by and large doesn't like the African Theme.
I said it...let's not ignore it.

wow. no idea where you get that idea from? personal opinion maybe? but it certainly doesnt seem to be true either way. It doesnt take 5 seconds in the resorts forum to see people love AKL. ESPECIALLY the theming! its the best themed resort out of all the resorts. no contest.

Its price point is the same as wilderness lodge yet WL seems to often be priced slightly lower - if AKL had to be discounted so much then AKL would be the cheaper.

Also, if AKV was such a failure why on earth did they only just go ahead and build kidani?!?!

Wait..... i spotted two things...... your name lockedoutlogic - well thats certainly true. Also, you bought into SSR, the cheap resort with no real theming at all. Jealousy of AKV points owners maybe?

 

[Ron from Michigan]

We have stayed at all of the DVC resorts except BLT. I think every resort has something to offer those DVC guests. We own at OKW and AKV. We love these two resorts for the themeing of each. I love the whole layout of OKW and how big the rooms are. If your driving it is so great to be able to park right outside your resort room and it has the lowest points total for your stay. We bought into AKV because we just loved the theme of the resorts. Where else can you get up in the morning take your cup of coffee out on the balcony and just relax while watching the animals. Maybe thats why we so seldom make the opening of the parks.

 

[PHILCT]

There are a number of us who think SSR was devalued when PI closed...

I always wondered if the folks who bought into SSR early felt betrayed by the Pleasure Island closing of clubs.

I'm guessing the DVC sales people were probably mad about the PI closings as well, as they must have known it would reflect on their selling of the units there.

Did SSR finally sell out, if they didn't how much inventory does Disney still want to sell there?

 

[PHILCT]

If they put up LUXURIOUS Free standing Wilderness Lodge Cabins at the old River Country site, I think it would be a popular place for DVC members.
Think 400 thread count sheets, nicer towels, H20 products. I swear I would even rent Robes if they could set it up. Luxury not Cowboys.
Those AKL DVC Concierge units are always sold out, DVC can sell luxury and charge for the points if the place is worth it.

I especially think this would be a great location for 3 bedroom villas as well, with a LOFT 3rd bedroom with LOTS of space.

Also Aulani is talking about making its Lazy River Ride "not so lazy" with some simulated rapids along the way. This WDW area would be a great place to build a mini water park pool area like Stormalong Bay, but with even a greater Lazy River Ride with some simulated rapids. They should honor the theme of the old River Country in the new complex. Think round floats passing down a nature river trail.

I wish they would add the Railroad transportation between the Wilderness Lodge through the new area as well, and possibly through Fort Wilderness.

If Disney thinks Wild West, Cheyenne, Santa Fe, Bonanza, Ranch or anything like that it will not sell well. I like Fort Wilderness Cabins, I just want something like twice or three times as luxurious and spacious.

If I need a studio, the Wilderness Lodge is fine for me.
But I really want spacious VILLAS in this location.

If they do build any new restaurants on the site, they should be very careful to build a decent food court option with nice dining tables, like at SSR but even bigger. I am sure the people of Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge would use the facilities there.

I also think they should not make it a new DVC property, but rather expand the sales of the original Wilderness Lodge to include the additional properties, just like Saratoga Springs has the Tree Houses. The expanded sales would have a new expiration date.

Okay throw arrows and spears at me, I don't mind Native American Indian themes, I just hate the idea of Cowboy themes. I would have loved it in the 50's though (Davey, Davey Crocket King of the Wild Frontier).
Hey "King of The Wild Frontier" would be a great name for the Train.
DVC may not want the train, but Walt would have loved it.


Phil

 

[patsal]

I always wondered if the folks who bought into SSR early felt betrayed by the Pleasure Island closing of clubs.

I'm guessing the DVC sales people were probably mad about the PI closings as well, as they must have known it would reflect on their selling of the units there.

Did SSR finally sell out, if they didn't how much inventory does Disney still want to sell there?

IMHO the whole messing with PI ruined it for me. They built a gazebo for watching the PI fireworks, then the fireworks were removed, then they took all of PI away. Now I have no desire to stay there. Of course I am only one person so of course my opinion has little weight.

 

[PHILCT]

IMHO the whole messing with PI ruined it for me. They built a gazebo for watching the PI fireworks, then the fireworks were removed, then they took all of PI away. Now I have no desire to stay there. Of course I am only one person so of course my opinion has little weight.

Actually If I had bought at SSR I would have been as mad as heck, so I think you have a valid point. Even if other SSR owners tell you that it isn't such a big deal, it is a Big Deal to those who liked to see the clubs at PI.

I never got to go to the Adventurer's Club, I was waiting for a future visit.

But I did get to 8-Traxx quite a bit.

I still don't know what direction Disney is going with the left over club buildings in PI. I guess I will see how it has changed very soon.

The West Side mostly bores me now, except for the Movie Theatres.
It kind of reminds me of a shopping strip that I really don't want to visit that often.

And the Marketplace is still okay, but not as unique as it was when it first opened, with unique Disney and Non-Disney merchandise. If it were not for Ghiradelli and Earl of Sandwich, I could easily skip visiting the area.

For me, Pleasure Island was what made it such an attraction to visit Down Town Disney in the late evening.

 

[Mowdogs31]

I bought into SSR when it first opened knowing that even though it was my home, I wouldn't be staying there a lot. My first DVC trip was there and enjoyable with PI open and within walking distance. But...I haven't been back in 4 years. There is no comparison to The BOardwalk and the Beach Club. The location of those resorts and now BL make SSR very out of the way.

 

[AmesburyFamily]

Thank you for posting

 

[lockedoutlogic]

wow. no idea where you get that idea from? personal opinion maybe? but it certainly doesnt seem to be true either way. It doesnt take 5 seconds in the resorts forum to see people love AKL. ESPECIALLY the theming! its the best themed resort out of all the resorts. no contest.

My wife and I are frequent travelers to AKL and are fans...our first trip to kidani left us satisfied but not "wowed". The resorts forum has tens if not hundreds of thousands of people floating by on a daily basis...OF COURSE there are lots of fans to Animal Kingdom there. But that isn't what i was saying...i said that Animal Kingdom Lodge was opened and has never had the overall demand that Disney had hoped/ expected. It lowered it's prices after one year of operation...it was frequently one of the few places that didn't run at full capacity over the last 10 years (not always...but consistently if you've called for room availability)...and they did the unheard of step of converting existing hotel rooms to DVC units. Something that is a desperation move that they have never done before and will try never to do again. If they wanted 500 Villas (which again...is a large number meant to pull in alot of owners to a less than prime location) then they would have built Kidani with 500 hundred. There was no need to convert old rooms unless you couldn't keep them filled. That is Disney...filled rooms or else. That is why Saratoga is there and Disney Institute is not.

The theming is great...that is not in dispute...but it has never been near the top in demand. Why that is is probably alot of things...i think a huge one that Disney dare not breath is that their clientele is not down with the African Theme. They should be...but they are not. And it's not unreasonable to take a few guesses as to why.

Its price point is the same as wilderness lodge yet WL seems to often be priced slightly lower - if AKL had to be discounted so much then AKL would be the cheaper.

Check the point charts - many of the rooms at AKV are cheaper per night than WL, BC, BW, or BLT. AKV has more categories...some with more expensive point costs....but you can't get a cheap "per point" night at Wilderness...you can at AKV. And you can't at SSR...as you can at OKW. I think this isn't rocket science here.

Also, if AKV was such a failure why on earth did they only just go ahead and build kidani?!?!

Guaranteed revenue...they know from there past experiences (notably hilton head, vero, and more recently saratoga) that somebody will buy it...and they want to put butts in AKL to maintain revenue streams there and gate at DAK. As i state above...the conversion of rooms is what puts up the flag. there is no way on earth that disney would take rack rooms out of their inventory and make them DVC when they just could have added on at Kidani. You can disagree if you'd like (but probably not the right call).

Wait..... i spotted two things...... your name lockedoutlogic - well thats certainly true. Also, you bought into SSR, the cheap resort with no real theming at all. Jealousy of AKV points owners maybe?

Not jealousy...a check on reality. I don't need to envy AKV owners because i can go there anytime i want. That is what DVC was designed to do. I can't go to Beach Club or Boardwalk or Wilderness Lodge anytime i want. So if i were "jealous"...it would be of them.
But Saratoga was the only property available at the time of our purchase...and if we were to buy a resale we would be paying full price or above selling price to purchase something with a large percentage of the contract already used. so i would still make that choice. if AKV was being sold then...we would have undoubtedly bought there.

But that doesn't color my views/ recollection of the details of AKV... and i worked there during its construction/ opening and new many people who were on the opening team. The place fell in well below expectations...it was closely analyzed...it was added for at least a time to convention blocks when it was not intended to do so. Eisner placed its fee structure, personally, at just below the Grand...a "second flagship". It didn't hold. Management was reshuffled alot in the early years of its operation.

There many factors to why things are....as with all things. My comment was to bring one to light that is never talked about. You can disagree...but do it with some perspective. It's clear you missed the point and at least some of the facts

 

[nytimez]

Check the point charts - many of the rooms at AKV are cheaper per night than WL, BC, BW, or BLT. AKV has more categories...some with more expensive point costs....but you can't get a cheap "per point" night at Wilderness...you can at AKV. And you can't at SSR...as you can at OKW. I think this isn't rocket science here.

Looks like you might want to check the points chart yourself.

Eighty percent of AKV rooms are savannah view, according to Disney. That means 80 percent of the rooms at AKV cost more points per night than the rooms at all the resorts you mention. So unless between 10 and 20 percent of the rooms count as "many of the rooms," you're just making things up.

Again.