New Disney Resort Project?

Looks like you might want to check the points chart yourself.

Eighty percent of AKV rooms are savannah view, according to Disney. That means 80 percent of the rooms at AKV cost more points per night than the rooms at all the resorts you mention. So unless between 10 and 20 percent of the rooms count as "many of the rooms," you're just making things up.

Again.


Not trying to split hairs or take sides in the whole AKL/V debate, but weren't the AKV points reshuffled for 2011 with a bunch of "savannah" villas being downgraded in response to guest feedback? (That's what my guide told me during my open house back in August ... then again, he gave me some misinformation on other things, so maybe the AKV stuff was also not true.)

As far as the rumoured new DVC resort in the WL/FW area, if done right it would be awesome!
 
Not trying to split hairs or take sides in the whole AKL/V debate, but weren't the AKV points reshuffled for 2011 with a bunch of "savannah" villas being downgraded in response to guest feedback? (That's what my guide told me during my open house back in August ... then again, he gave me some misinformation on other things, so maybe the AKV stuff was also not true.)

As far as the rumoured new DVC resort in the WL/FW area, if done right it would be awesome!

No, the points in all DVC resorts are being reshuffled next year -- and have been reshuffled over the past year -- to make it cheaper to stay on weekends and more expensive to stay on weekdays.

But the reshuffling is just shifting the points from one day to another. A weekday goes up, a weekend comes down by an equal amount. At the end of the year, the total number of points a room "costs" cannot change, legally.

In other words, a room can't be "downgraded," because that would change that total number of points per year.
 
Not trying to split hairs or take sides in the whole AKL/V debate, but weren't the AKV points reshuffled for 2011 with a bunch of "savannah" villas being downgraded in response to guest feedback? (That's what my guide told me during my open house back in August ... then again, he gave me some misinformation on other things, so maybe the AKV stuff was also not true.)

Yes, but they had some leeway in that because they were building Kidani still and hadn't declared the inventory yet.

In fact, I was one of - if not THE - "guest feedback" in that case. Among other problems we had with our room allocation, although it technically had a view of one of the savannas, it was was an incredibly restricted view and what could be seen was essentially an alcove where the animals rarely entered. Over 6 days, all we saw was an eland, who basically laid on the ground and even disappeared after the 4th day, and an ostrich who for the most part stayed on the other side of the trees where we couldn't see him. We saw far more animals from the narrow hallway windows in 30 seconds than we did the whole stay in our room. This particular room probably had the single worst angle of view of any such room.

In a conversation with Member Services, I mentioned that I understood that reclassifying the rooms is difficult, but that room really shouldn't be classified as SV, and she responded that "If we need to, adjustments can be made." And it appears they had.
 
No, the points in all DVC resorts are being reshuffled next year -- and have been reshuffled over the past year -- to make it cheaper to stay on weekends and more expensive to stay on weekdays.

But the reshuffling is just shifting the points from one day to another. A weekday goes up, a weekend comes down by an equal amount. At the end of the year, the total number of points a room "costs" cannot change, legally.

In other words, a room can't be "downgraded," because that would change that total number of points per year.

Actually, it was more extensive than that, as some people figured out that the point totals didn't add up as expected, and DVC confirmed later that rooms WERE reclassified, but they did have to adjust new inventory from Kidani to do it.
 

Yes, but they had some leeway in that because they were building Kidani still and hadn't declared the inventory yet.

In fact, I was one of - if not THE - "guest feedback" in that case. Among other problems we had with our room allocation, although it technically had a view of one of the savannas, it was was an incredibly restricted view and what could be seen was essentially an alcove where the animals rarely entered. Over 6 days, all we saw was an eland, who basically laid on the ground and even disappeared after the 4th day, and an ostrich who for the most part stayed on the other side of the trees where we couldn't see him. We saw far more animals from the narrow hallway windows in 30 seconds than we did the whole stay in our room. This particular room probably had the single worst angle of view of any such room.

In a conversation with Member Services, I mentioned that I understood that reclassifying the rooms is difficult, but that room really shouldn't be classified as SV, and she responded that "If we need to, adjustments can be made." And it appears they had.

That would explain why early early AKV literature said 90 percent of the rooms had a Savannah view, while the current one says 80 percent. I thought it was just the sheer number of Kidani rooms coming online, but I guess if they are altering rooms before they're declared, or changing a room and then declaring a new one in the old category to make up for it, that would account for the 10 percent.

In any case, using the low-point rooms in AKV that make up only a small percentage of the total as a point of comparison to the other resorts requires a locking out all logic along, so to speak. ;)
 
Yes they did downgrade a lot of rooms and that is why the average nighly stay increased even though the total points for the resort stayed the same.

bookwormde
 
Yes they did downgrade a lot of rooms and that is why the average nighly stay increased even though the total points for the resort stayed the same.

bookwormde

Can you provide a link or something for more info on that? How many rooms? Jambo or Kidani? I did a Google search and the only thing that come up that related to this was... this thread.
 
I personally bought SSR because it was one of the Cheaper for Re-sale, had the lowest maintenance cost and had an extra 6 year (2054).

And in the last 4 years, over 12 trips, I've only stayed at SSR once. I have stayed at all the DVC's except Beach Club. I definitely prefer to stay at the Park DVC's (BWV, AKV, BLT).
 
Hey...Post,

You are good at identifying the individual trees...but miss the forest entirely.

you have me chuckling when you go digging for numbers...which of course in both cases failed to actually address the central argument...

Saratoga and the Animal Kingdom DVC were both "reclamation" projects. Obviously, Saratoga is one...i highly doubt anybody with ANY knowledge of the history of that location can argue this...
Animal Kingdom is a much better spot and design...but both the park and the lodge have fallen well below the initial estimates that Disney made for them. So DVC is guaranteed clientele that offset costs...can we agree on that?

But i ask you again...if AKV wasn't a "fix"...then why would they retrofit existing inventory? Why? If they were booked...why would you take them offline? Rob yourself of paying customers?

You clearly love the Beast...but i'm not quite sure you understand it. You're not making an argument that makes sense. (you can love WDW but still recognize it for what it is...acceptance is the first step to inner peace :rotfl: )

But i really wasn't talking about AKV in the first place...the original point is that SSR was overpriced in terms of points...and the fact is that you can't get a room for less than 11 a night at saratoga...unlike OKW, AKV, or even Boardwalk. Wanna check the charts again on that?

Saratoga was greed in its purest form for DVC...from this seat it's clear as day. animal kingdom was somewhere in the middle...an area that wasn't making enough bucks that was prime for timeshares...but a good theme in place.

Just call up the ressie line and pick a random 5 night block and see which locations are available...wanna bet which are the first 3 you can get?

Not much of a bet
(i know...here comes the "of course because they're bigger argument"....the flaw there being that there are statistically a roughly equal proportion of rooms to home members....meaning the demand should equal out, more or less...and all locations should be filled at approximately the same percentages at any given time. But that isn't how it goes...again...we can probably agree on that as well. So if "home" members are floading other spots...doesn't that kinda seal the "better or worse" location debate?)

If you have some kinda reasonable conclusion to prove this otherwise...i'm all ears...
If you're gonna quote the 2008 costs for soap by resort...probably should just save time and hit a starbucks instead.
 
I personally bought SSR because it was one of the Cheaper for Re-sale, had the lowest maintenance cost and had an extra 6 year (2054).

And in the last 4 years, over 12 trips, I've only stayed at SSR once. I have stayed at all the DVC's except Beach Club. I definitely prefer to stay at the Park DVC's (BWV, AKV, BLT).

you and about 95% of the dvc membership list...

but i thank you for confirming that the sky is...in fact...blue

(except when its cloudy of course)
 
Hey...Post,

You are good at identifying the individual trees...but miss the forest entirely.

you have me chuckling when you go digging for numbers...which of course in both cases failed to actually address the central argument...

Saratoga and the Animal Kingdom DVC were both "reclamation" projects. Obviously, Saratoga is one...i highly doubt anybody with ANY knowledge of the history of that location can argue this...
Animal Kingdom is a much better spot and design...but both the park and the lodge have fallen well below the initial estimates that Disney made for them. So DVC is guaranteed clientele that offset costs...can we agree on that?

But i ask you again...if AKV wasn't a "fix"...then why would they retrofit existing inventory? Why? If they were booked...why would you take them offline? Rob yourself of paying customers?

You clearly love the Beast...but i'm not quite sure you understand it. You're not making an argument that makes sense. (you can love WDW but still recognize it for what it is...acceptance is the first step to inner peace :rotfl: )

But i really wasn't talking about AKV in the first place...the original point is that SSR was overpriced in terms of points...and the fact is that you can't get a room for less than 11 a night at saratoga...unlike OKW, AKV, or even Boardwalk. Wanna check the charts again on that?

Saratoga was greed in its purest form for DVC...from this seat it's clear as day. animal kingdom was somewhere in the middle...an area that wasn't making enough bucks that was prime for timeshares...but a good theme in place.

Just call up the ressie line and pick a random 5 night block and see which locations are available...wanna bet which are the first 3 you can get?

Not much of a bet
(i know...here comes the "of course because they're bigger argument"....the flaw there being that there are statistically a roughly equal proportion of rooms to home members....meaning the demand should equal out, more or less...and all locations should be filled at approximately the same percentages at any given time. But that isn't how it goes...again...we can probably agree on that as well. So if "home" members are floading other spots...doesn't that kinda seal the "better or worse" location debate?)

If you have some kinda reasonable conclusion to prove this otherwise...i'm all ears...
If you're gonna quote the 2008 costs for soap by resort...probably should just save time and hit a starbucks instead.

You couldn't find the forest with a map. You can "chuckle" when presented with actual numbers -- it must be a pleasant distraction from the fact that you can't back up a single one of your own assertions.

But why use facts when it's easier to make stuff up?

PS: I'm still waiting for you to present that page in the annual report that says Disney makes no money on gate revenue. Good thing I'm not holding my breath!
 
You couldn't find the forest with a map. You can "chuckle" when presented with actual numbers -- it must be a pleasant distraction from the fact that you can't back up a single one of your own assertions.

But why use facts when it's easier to make stuff up?

PS: I'm still waiting for you to present that page in the annual report that says Disney makes no money on gate revenue. Good thing I'm not holding my breath!

you've yet to disprove anything...and since its all pretty much an opinion based on trends, patterns, and facts...it won't be likely.

Disney is about money...and that is what you need to get a grip on. you can attempt to keyboard rambo around it anyway you want...but at the end of the day the truth is that they do whatever is necessary to make the most money by their own estimation. it's all smoke and mirrors.

everything you seem to get in a wrinkle about comes down to the same thing...you attempt to wishful think their motives...its all profit.

no...harry potter doesn't matter because it won't take any money away beyond a pitifully small window...and yes...saratoga and animal kingdom villas were slapped there to flesh out coffers at underachieving sites.

It is what it is...
 
nytimez

IF you dig back there was an extensive thread about it this spring. THe change amounted to 162,000 points and was approxiamtely 36 2 br equivelents and 2 GVs. Most were at Kidani on the north end facing the fence and "corral area" although there were a few that faced back towards the values at Jambo also.

The only public posting was the new standard view class for GVs at Kidani, but when called DVC aknowleged the change.

bookwormde
 
Can you provide a link or something for more info on that? How many rooms? Jambo or Kidani? I did a Google search and the only thing that come up that related to this was... this thread.

Look for the 2011 points chart thread in one of the DVC forums. Somewhere in that long thread is where it all came out.

nytimez

IF you dig back there was an extensive thread about it this spring. THe change amounted to 162,000 points and was approxiamtely 36 2 br equivelents and 2 GVs. Most were at Kidani on the north end facing the fence and "corral area" although there were a few that faced back towards the values at Jambo also.

The only public posting was the new standard view class for GVs at Kidani, but when called DVC aknowleged the change.

bookwormde

I think one of the telling examples was that one of the standard GVs was in Jambo, IIRC. Since it wasn't a new unit and all GVs were previously SV, it meant that they had to have reclassified the rooms.
 
So I'm confused, is there going to be a new resort or not? I figured someone should try to get this thread back to its original point. :rolleyes1
 
Other than the Art Of Animation Resort (the "other half" of POP Century finally getting built), there have been no announcements, only rumors - and there are always rumors.
 
Not to steer back off track, but for some reason I thought the change at Jambo from "rack rooms" to DVC was to satisfy the need for DVC in that area until Kidani was built? I don't have a factual link or statistics to back that up, but I thought that was what was announced. When I heard about it, I kind of had the impression that if it went well, then they would move forward with Kidani Village...and after Jambo sold well, they decided to move forward. Just a thought from what I could recall...
 
It lowered it's prices after one year of operation...it was frequently one of the few places that didn't run at full capacity over the last 10 years (not always...but consistently if you've called for room availability)...and they did the unheard of step of converting existing hotel rooms to DVC units.

Couple things to keep in mind:

1) AKL opened on April 16th, 2001. On September 11th, 2001, the tourism industry took a pretty enormous blow. That's a pretty big mitigating factor when you're talking about the largest deluxe resort (in terms of number of rooms:1274 when it opened) on property, no? And the other hotel that was traditionally underbooked was the Contemp....the 2nd biggest deluxe resort (1000 rooms, at the time of AKL's opening) on property

2) The room category that was MOST underbooked, reportedly, were the deluxe rooms (approx 225 rooms).

3) AKL was designed, from top to bottom, to support a DVC addition. Infrastructure, construction, site prep, land use, everything was really plotted out during the design phase of AKL. Kidani (or some form of it) were always in the plans, at least on some level.

4) Disney saw an issue possibly arising that would leave the DVC sales force with nothing (or limited) new to sell to the public for a significant period of time if they chose to build only Kidani. They had a category of room that was traditionally underbooked, which could easily (relatively) be converted into villas. They basically solved 2 problems with one solution. They reduced the number of cash rooms AND provided something new for the DVC sales force to sell, while the new addition (Kidani) was being built.

I'm not sure you can make much of an argument that THEME was the overriding factor in this one. You could argue that, in hindsight, AKL was overbuilt...though without clairvoyance, it's hard to see how Disney could have known that... and that it's location makes it a bit more remote (which, for some people, is an issue). I can certainly see those points.

But theme? Other than your personal opinion, I can't see any logical grounds for that argument.

Something that is a desperation move that they have never done before and will try never to do again. If they wanted 500 Villas (which again...is a large number meant to pull in alot of owners to a less than prime location) then they would have built Kidani with 500 hundred. There was no need to convert old rooms unless you couldn't keep them filled. That is Disney...filled rooms or else. That is why Saratoga is there and Disney Institute is not.

They couldn't fill the DELUXE rooms, at a premium price, after a massive fluctuation in tourism volumes followed by economic downturn (and then recovery, granted). Given the offering, and it's real lack of distinction from the "regular rooms, and the fact the Deluxe rooms actually offered a higher (re: further away) view of the animals, that doesn't really surprise me much. There are far more mitigating factors here than you're acknowledging.

The theming is great...that is not in dispute...but it has never been near the top in demand. Why that is is probably alot of things...i think a huge one that Disney dare not breath is that their clientele is not down with the African Theme. They should be...but they are not. And it's not unreasonable to take a few guesses as to why.

Again, you're not providing evidence that the THEME is what caused the lack of demand. You can think it, but you've got no real evidence other than your opinion...given there are much more logical reasons to consider.

Check the point charts - many of the rooms at AKV are cheaper per night than WL, BC, BW, or BLT. AKV has more categories...some with more expensive point costs....but you can't get a cheap "per point" night at Wilderness...you can at AKV. And you can't at SSR...as you can at OKW. I think this isn't rocket science here.

The majority (80%) of the rooms are savanna view rooms. They are "pricier", across the categories, than most of the other resorts. And they do not have the benefit of being "attached" to a theme park.

The value rooms provide significantly SMALLER rooms at a discount point rate. Can't really compare those to anything offered anywhere else. And they are VERY few in number.

The "standard" view rooms (ie: pool at Jambo, pool or parking lot at Kidani) are fewer in number and are much like the "standard" view rooms at the Boardwalk...and are "pricer" in terms of point costs.

It might not be rocket science, but the conclusion you're trying to reach simply doesn't hold water when looking at the ACTUAL numbers.

Guaranteed revenue...they know from there past experiences (notably hilton head, vero, and more recently saratoga) that somebody will buy it...and they want to put butts in AKL to maintain revenue streams there and gate at DAK. As i state above...the conversion of rooms is what puts up the flag. there is no way on earth that disney would take rack rooms out of their inventory and make them DVC when they just could have added on at Kidani. You can disagree if you'd like (but probably not the right call).

I don't think anyone would argue that the Deluxe room category was vastly underbooked. But there are other factors involved that you either haven't considered or are completely ignoring. And the solution they adopted was unorthodox, but solved 2 seperate problems at the same time.

As for guaranteed revenue....well, no kidding. That's the reasoning behind DVC, from Disney's perspective, from top to bottom. And being able to equate out 95-ish% occupancy (because bought points are bought points) to a much lower figure (for the deluxe rooms) makes this a pretty interesting bit of creative problem solving.

As for AKV increasing the gate at DAK...I'd be surprised if that was true. Transport from AKL/AKV is such that the only park that's aways away is MK..and even that isn't a horrible commute (15-20 min). After all...a bus is a bus is a bus. It's not like there's direct access from the resort to AK via walkway.

There many factors to why things are....as with all things. My comment was to bring one to light that is never talked about. You can disagree...but do it with some perspective. It's clear you missed the point and at least some of the facts

Pot. Kettle. Black.
 
That would explain why early early AKV literature said 90 percent of the rooms had a Savannah view, while the current one says 80 percent. I thought it was just the sheer number of Kidani rooms coming online, but I guess if they are altering rooms before they're declared, or changing a room and then declaring a new one in the old category to make up for it, that would account for the 10 percent.

In any case, using the low-point rooms in AKV that make up only a small percentage of the total as a point of comparison to the other resorts requires a locking out all logic along, so to speak. ;)

From talking with some friends who work at AKV (and a couple who have worked at AKL since it opened), this isn't new. Many of the rooms that were "reclassified" at Jambo, when they became DVC, were likewise "reclassified" (sometimes unofficially..as in, they had a ton of guest complaints) when they were hotel rooms. I've seen similar anecdotal info from other posters, but...take that for what you will.

The number I heard was about 20-30 rooms that were "reclassified" from savanna to standard, some scattered around Jambo and there were some at the ends of Kidani, too. That "jives" with the reports we've seen from guests, past and present, who report a different classification on the same room number.
 


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