New Car Buying

[eandt]

Your sister's experience with car dealerships sounds frustrating. It's disappointing when they mark up prices so steeply and refuse to negotiate.

The dealership’s time is coming … they will have a glut and nobody will be able to afford them … help is on the way though so hold out if you can.

 

[eandt]

Yeah - it was the dealer - not Subaru - so I went to a different dealer.

I think that's why it was a fee and not part of the price I think.

They also didn't want to give me Guaranteed Trade Value in on another Subaru I was thinking about trading in.

Probably should have reached out to Subaru.

I always negotiate the new car deal separately … only after we come to an agreement on price on that end will I discuss the trade deal if I have one … I’m no expert but they move numbers around to make it look like you are getting a ‘deal’ on the new car while basically stealing your trade …. If I’m paying retail for a new car (never have) then they are going to pay retail for my used car .. their goal is you pay retail while they pay wholesale …

 

[tony67]

I always negotiate the new car deal separately … only after we come to an agreement on price on that end will I discuss the trade deal if I have one … I’m no expert but they move numbers around to make it look like you are getting a ‘deal’ on the new car while basically stealing your trade …. If I’m paying retail for a new car (never have) then they are going to pay retail for my used car .. their goal is you pay retail while they pay wholesale …

Yeah.. no doubt. Of course there is next to no negotiation with Subarus and they started with the fee in the first place.
So that is the price and add 1500 without a trade in. Its all a game as you say.

I could have sold the car myself - but was not worth the time and possible liability in my state.
They may have made another 500 to 1000 on it at the auction, IDK, but in general I agree trade ins are stolen and buried.
More so if you lease IMO.

The same dealer group - tried to charge my brother $4000 covid fee to buy his lease car at the end of the lease. I did it for him through a local bank instead and no fees at all. it was a Nissan so I could not just buy it out direct from them and had to go through a bank. Subaru uses Chase for leases - you just work direct with them - so much better.

Unfortunately they are a big dealer in the area and have lots of cars in stock, other dealers are at least a 30 days wait at best. To bad they are so shady. And of course every time I go in I brin up how shady they are and they say - oh yeah - that was old management - we are different

 

[BrianL]

Yeah.. no doubt. Of course there is next to no negotiation with Subarus and they started with the fee in the first place.
So that is the price and add 1500 without a trade in. Its all a game as you say.

I could have sold the car myself - but was not worth the time and possible liability in my state.
They may have made another 500 to 1000 on it at the auction, IDK, but in general I agree trade ins are stolen and buried.
More so if you lease IMO.

The same dealer group - tried to charge my brother $4000 covid fee to buy his lease car at the end of the lease. I did it for him through a local bank instead and no fees at all. it was a Nissan so I could not just buy it out direct from them and had to go through a bank. Subaru uses Chase for leases - you just work direct with them - so much better.

Unfortunately they are a big dealer in the area and have lots of cars in stock, other dealers are at least a 30 days wait at best. To bad they are so shady. And of course every time I go in I brin up how shady they are and they say - oh yeah - that was old management - we are different

Yeah, I decideed on my Subaru becasue I felt that this dealeership were very straight shooters. Compared to the Toyota dealerships I was visiting - man, they acted liek they didn't even want to sell me a car! As you said, with Subaru, I didn't necessarily get a great deal, but it wasn't jacked up either. That's fair in this market. They did toss in my roof racks for free since the color I wanted didn't have them installed, so that's a little something.

 

[kdonnel]

The dealership’s time is coming … they will have a glut and nobody will be able to afford them … help is on the way though so hold out if you can.

I am looking at buying later this year and rooting for more and more cars to pile up on the lots.

 

[tony67]

I am looking at buying later this year and rooting for more and more cars to pile up on the lots.

So - I've been saying the same thing for over a year now about used pickup trucks, but a 2013 F-150 with over 200K is still 8k. Oh and its a V8 - most of the ones under 10k are V8s

 

[eandt]

I am looking at buying later this year and rooting for more and more cars to pile up on the lots.

Watch how fast the chip ‘crisis’ that allegedly led to this supply issue of automobiles goes away soon …

 

[hertamaniac]

Cars are piling up and the dealer's floor plan costs aren't going down. I just bought in December as that is historically the best time to purchase (end of quarter/year quotas and incentives).

I aimed squarely at OTD price. They could put any fluff terminology, but the only thing that gave me an apples-to-apples comparison at different dealers was OTD. I didn't talk payment method, monthly payment or cash sale, or any adders.

I purchased a sedan, which is mostly out of favor, as compared to the SUV segment.

 

[eandt]

Cars are piling up and the dealer's floor plan costs aren't going down. I just bought in December as that is historically the best time to purchase (end of quarter/year quotas and incentives).

I aimed squarely at OTD price. They could put any fluff terminology, but the only thing that gave me an apples-to-apples comparison at different dealers was OTD. I didn't talk payment method, monthly payment or cash sale, or any adders.

I purchased a sedan, which is mostly out of favor, as compared to the SUV segment.

I no longer even step foot into a dealership until we have the framework of an OTD deal in place via email … they can save their BS tactics

 

[hertamaniac]

I no longer even step foot into a dealership until we have the framework of an OTD deal in place via email … they can save their BS tactics

And that's exactly how I ended up purchasing mine. My local dealerships played the game of you have to come in, etc. garbage. I got an OTD via e-mail and used several tactics that gave me a deal I felt confident on (and drove nearly an hour away to get it).

 

[BrianL]

I purchased a sedan, which is mostly out of favor, as compared to the SUV segment.

Yeah, that was one thing that they told me. They really wanted to move the Imprezza because the vast majority of people here are interested in SUV style vehicles.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Cars are piling up and the dealer's floor plan costs aren't going down. I just bought in December as that is historically the best time to purchase (end of quarter/year quotas and incentives).

I aimed squarely at OTD price. They could put any fluff terminology, but the only thing that gave me an apples-to-apples comparison at different dealers was OTD. I didn't talk payment method, monthly payment or cash sale, or any adders.

I purchased a sedan, which is mostly out of favor, as compared to the SUV segment.

The thing I've noticed piling up are all the expensive Trucks, A lot of them over $100,000. They are all over the place. But they aren't being discounted. In fact, many have dealer mark ups despite sitting for awhile. The cheaper trucks are selling fast. Maybe you'll see 2 or 3 that aren't already spoken for if you're lucky. Sedans aren't the most popular here but what they have are selling. SUVs it depends. Honda and Toyota are at a very low inventory condition. The rest a bit higher. The more high end ones have more inventory. For some reason, hybrids are flying off the lots. The rumored death of the hybrid hasn't come to pass. It's a wait for one. You're going to pay full retail here plus you're going to be dealer extra'd like crazy. You know. $80 fancy floor mats for $250. That sort of thing.

 

[firefly_ris]

One of the most ridiculous things that was going on recently was charging 1500 fee if you did not have a trade in. Then they would only give you pennies on the dollar for the trade in. "Well its more like you are getting 2000 for the trade in because you don't have to pay that fee."

Even worse - this was Subaru (a Subaru Dealer) and they really don't negotiate prices at all... for the most price the price is the price.
I went elsewhere, but still only got 500 for the trade in - which they turned around and sold for a lot more - I think it was listed at 7000 when I looked it up on car max. I assume they sold it at auction and whoever got it did nothing to it and put it on the lot. Was still a better deal overall than the first place.

I feel bad for the person that bought my trade in. It was a 2006 Ranger and looked perfect, but had lots of issues that needed to be addressed. I wish I had just sunk the 2k into that I needed to. Cant find anything like it there days.
All pickups are 4 door now, something to do with the EPA I guess. They are also much bigger overall, even the new Ranger. Ans as someone else said - they are way too expensive, and used ones that have problems are easily 10k, if you can find one.

I miss the days of beat up pickup trucks for $500 you could run into the ground.

My husband drove a reddish-orange 1998 Ranger when we were dating. I learned how to drive in a rear wheel drive vehicle in the snow with it, miss that thing. It topped out at like 60mph unless you were rolling down a really big hill, ha.

Ugh. I hate dealerships. I also hate dealership service departments. I just hate the whole experience.

They offered me $200 for my 2005 Town & Country, declined and sold it privately 2 days later for $1000. Fair enough in that case, because rusty old minivans with 200k miles are basically just scrap to those guys.

We had never purchased a new car ever in our entire lives, and for whatever reason we somehow reasoned ourselves into a 2022 Highlander. It was August, and both my van's AC and radiator fans stopped working due to severe electrical corrosion issues (so I couldn't drive more than a few miles without blasting the heat to reduce overheating, fun time) and our guy said it was going to be a pricey pull-apart fix and would cost as much as the vehicle was worth (I live in Rust Town USA). During this time we had a base model Ford Maverick hybrid on order (which actually would/should have been our first and only new car purchase) but wait times for production were over a year long and we didn't know if it would get built at all, and here I am needing to make a choice about my van. At this time used prices were completely ridiculous (not sure if they still are now), and there was a year long wait list for new at-MSRP Siennas and so for some reason we just thought we could do with this 3 row Highlander. I have 3 kids, and I thought I would like it, and I just didn't. Way too fancy, I hated having a car payment, no rear cargo space for road trips at all, and really missed my old busted van. I regret doing that and one of our dumbest financial decisions. Maybe I would have liked it more if I had purchased an older used one for cash, might have changed my perspective on it.

Anyway, all that inane babbling is to say the Maverick finally did come in the following July and because the Maverick was significantly cheaper than the Highlander and I really dislike car payments, we ate the depreciation on the Highlander (ughh) and sold it and bought the Maverick in cash and banked the leftover. The Maverick is a 4 door unibody (so not a "real pickup") that seats 5, but it is more close in size to the older Rangers, and can tow a bit like a small flat trailer with a couple of 4 wheelers on it or whatever. We got the XL base model and it was $23k. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but perfectly fine. It is a non-plugin hybrid and gets about 43MPG, a little less in the winter. It is my husband's daily commuter.

Our other vehicle is a 2018 F-150 (V8) that we bought off my father-in-law and I work from home so I drive that, and it's our road trip vehicle for the time being. So 2 trucks each with their own special purposes. The prices on brand new half-ton pickups right now is absolutely unbelievable and I can't figure out who is buying them. We use our truck for actual truck things sometimes, and so it can get some scratches or dings -- I'd probably have a heart attack if I spent $120k on some truck and then loaded it up with drywall and stuff. Then add into that how much service work costs nowadays -- I got charged $600 to have the rear brakes (and e-brake recalibration) done on the F-150, couldn't imagine coughing that up on top of a $1000 car payment, lordy. I finally decided to do my own front brakes when it will need it in about 10k.

 

[tony67]

My husband drove a reddish-orange 1998 Ranger when we were dating. I learned how to drive in a rear wheel drive vehicle in the snow with it, miss that thing. It topped out at like 60mph unless you were rolling down a really big hill, ha.

Ugh. I hate dealerships. I also hate dealership service departments. I just hate the whole experience.

They offered me $200 for my 2005 Town & Country, declined and sold it privately 2 days later for $1000. Fair enough in that case, because rusty old minivans with 200k miles are basically just scrap to those guys.

We had never purchased a new car ever in our entire lives, and for whatever reason we somehow reasoned ourselves into a 2022 Highlander. It was August, and both my van's AC and radiator fans stopped working due to severe electrical corrosion issues (so I couldn't drive more than a few miles without blasting the heat to reduce overheating, fun time) and our guy said it was going to be a pricey pull-apart fix and would cost as much as the vehicle was worth (I live in Rust Town USA). During this time we had a base model Ford Maverick hybrid on order (which actually would/should have been our first and only new car purchase) but wait times for production were over a year long and we didn't know if it would get built at all, and here I am needing to make a choice about my van. At this time used prices were completely ridiculous (not sure if they still are now), and there was a year long wait list for new at-MSRP Siennas and so for some reason we just thought we could do with this 3 row Highlander. I have 3 kids, and I thought I would like it, and I just didn't. Way too fancy, I hated having a car payment, no rear cargo space for road trips at all, and really missed my old busted van. I regret doing that and one of our dumbest financial decisions. Maybe I would have liked it more if I had purchased an older used one for cash, might have changed my perspective on it.

Anyway, all that inane babbling is to say the Maverick finally did come in the following July and because the Maverick was significantly cheaper than the Highlander and I really dislike car payments, we ate the depreciation on the Highlander (ughh) and sold it and bought the Maverick in cash and banked the leftover. The Maverick is a 4 door unibody (so not a "real pickup") that seats 5, but it is more close in size to the older Rangers, and can tow a bit like a small flat trailer with a couple of 4 wheelers on it or whatever. We got the XL base model and it was $23k. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but perfectly fine. It is a non-plugin hybrid and gets about 43MPG, a little less in the winter. It is my husband's daily commuter.

Our other vehicle is a 2018 F-150 (V8) that we bought off my father-in-law and I work from home so I drive that, and it's our road trip vehicle for the time being. So 2 trucks each with their own special purposes. The prices on brand new half-ton pickups right now is absolutely unbelievable and I can't figure out who is buying them. We use our truck for actual truck things sometimes, and so it can get some scratches or dings -- I'd probably have a heart attack if I spent $120k on some truck and then loaded it up with drywall and stuff. Then add into that how much service work costs nowadays -- I got charged $600 to have the rear brakes (and e-brake recalibration) done on the F-150, couldn't imagine coughing that up on top of a $1000 car payment, lordy. I finally decided to do my own front brakes when it will need it in about 10k.

Yeah - for the previous post and what I've seen I'm not sure anyone is buying those 100k+ pickups.

I was considering the Maverick, but the bed is too small.

I had the 2 Seat Ranger with the longer bed and 4 wheel drive.
It was perfect for plywood sheets, 2x4 etc.. just stuff from Lowes etc.
Also something to drive to places where it might get dinged etc..
It had 190k on it and the explorer only had 116k so I kept the Explorer.
Still not sure it was the right move, and I really miss the Ranger.
Every time I see one I am jealous, its exactly what I need.

The new ones not so much.

I hear Toyota has a Toyota Tacoma that sounds like what I want, but I don't want a brand new one, and its 40k.

 

[firefly_ris]

Yeah - for the previous post and what I've seen I'm not sure anyone is buying those 100k+ pickups.

I was considering the Maverick, but the bed is too small.

I had the 2 Seat Ranger with the longer bed and 4 wheel drive.
It was perfect for plywood sheets, 2x4 etc.. just stuff from Lowes etc.
Also something to drive to places where it might get dinged etc..
It had 190k on it and the explorer only had 116k so I kept the Explorer.
Still not sure it was the right move, and I really miss the Ranger.
Every time I see one I am jealous, its exactly what I need.

The new ones not so much.

I hear Toyota has a Toyota Tacoma that sounds like what I want, but I don't want a brand new one, and its 40k.

Yeah we looked at Tacomas briefly because I like their longevity reputation, but just more than we wanted to spend, and the Mav reminded my husband of his Ranger and we liked the hybrid mileage idea so he kind of had his heart set on it.

The bed is small on the Maverick, but you can fit full sheets of plywood in it laying flat. There is a little cable that you move that keeps the tailgate positioned at a 45 degree angle and the sheets rest right on it. Look at 1/2 ton crew cabs these days, all that size and their beds are small too -- the Maverick has a 4 foot bed but my F-150 only has a 5.5 foot bed! Crazy.

 

[TippyThomas]

I've been considering changing my camping setup and getting a pull-behind trailer with a truck. When I priced what I'd need to spend on the truck and the trailer combined, I could purchase one heck of a class a or class c RV. I'm gonna stick with the class C I have now because buying one of those trucks just doesn't seem like money well spent.

 

[sam_gordon]

Watch how fast the chip ‘crisis’ that allegedly led to this supply issue of automobiles goes away soon …

Is that what you'd expect (or at least hope) to happen? That they eventually get caught up?

Cars are piling up and the dealer's floor plan costs aren't going down. I just bought in December as that is historically the best time to purchase (end of quarter/year quotas and incentives).

Then when of two things is happening...
1) People are still buying at the higher price, so there's no reason to lower prices.
2) Dealer's aren't ready to get them off their lots yet.