New AP system - willing to use it?

[Tagrel]

Testing is never 100%. Given that there is probably a software piece of this, a connectivity piece of this, and a data piece of this, there are many opportunities for it to pass system test with flying colors but still not initially deploy well.

Seeing as I design, code and test systems every day I can agree that testing is never 100%. But I also know that a new system is NOT taken online Friday afternoon, and then abandoned over the weekend to run incorrectly. They WANT it running this way, or it would have been taken off line. Making excuses for bad planning and execution is not typically acceptable when the CEO calls you to his office. Or so I've been told...

If people want to gamble with their vacation dollars, that is completely up to them. I, for one, like to know exactly what I'm getting for my money. With this program, ALL the risk falls on the guest, and NONE on Disney. Those aren't odds I'm comfortable with. I have no idea if a convention is filling all the rooms so no discounts are going to be available. And I'm not willing to pay $500 a night at the chance I might get a great price.

but that is just me...

 

[MagicKingdom05]

I will try it for my 4th of July 2006 trip to see if it's worth doing in the future or not.

 

[C.Ann]

With this program, ALL the risk falls on the guest, and NONE on Disney.

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Wow! One single sentence and you hit the nail right on the head!!!

 

[jarestel]

If people want to gamble with their vacation dollars, that is completely up to them. I, for one, like to know exactly what I'm getting for my money.

Tagrel, I don't see where the gamble is in this for people like me who tend to book in advance anyway. Even under the old program, if I booked 6 - 9 months in advance before codes came out, I knew exactly what I was getting and what I'd be paying for it. Nothing changes under the new program except if the rates go down, I no longer have to go through the inconvenience of chasing the lower rates. Now, I'm guaranteed those rates.

I can see that for those who can't pay rack rates and need codes to book their hotels, this can be disconcerting, but for travelers like me, it's a win-win. I get everything I'm used to getting, plus guaranteed, hassle-free discounts if they become available. So this is no gamble at all for me.

 

[Lewisc]

Tagrel, I don't see where the gamble is in this for people like me who tend to book in advance anyway. Even under the old program, if I booked 6 - 9 months in advance before codes came out, I knew exactly what I was getting and what I'd be paying for it. Nothing changes under the new program except if the rates go down, I no longer have to go through the inconvenience of chasing the lower rates. Now, I'm guaranteed those rates.

I can see that for those who can't pay rack rates and need codes to book their hotels, this can be disconcerting, but for travelers like me, it's a win-win. I get everything I'm used to getting, plus guaranteed, hassle-free discounts if they become available. So this is no gamble at all for me.

Unless the system is changed you'll be booking at rack rate and may miss out on a AAA discount. You may know exactly when and where you're staying but under this new system you've added a non-refundable deposit and change fee without getting anything guaranteed in return.

 

[lllovell]

I think I am starting to see where a BIG difference of opinion lies here which I didnt understand before.

There is a HUGE difference between booking a value and a deluxe at rack rates and then hoping for an AP code. I have noticed in the past that the AP discounts are not always listed for the deluxe hotels, although have heard if you call there it typically some discount. For people that enjoy Deluxe (and even moderate) hotels, this IS a much bigger "risk" than those booking at Pop or the All Stars where there is ALWAYS an AP discount of some sort.

From this angle, I can see how many think this is a "risk" when I don't. We are either value or moderate hotel users, keeping our deluxe time to when we use our DVC points, so I fall in a different catagory from others.

Am I off base here with people's concerns?

 

[PamNC]

CAnn - you said it all. Whether the system works well for me or not (and it doesn't) you're absolutely right - we're taking all the risk. I pray that this thing doesn't survive. I can't imagine why anyone would support it, you're losing all your freedom and flexibility. What's the incentive? I guess you're "guaranteed the best possible rate offered to the general public." Well, what does that mean? Just wait until you need to cancel and you owe one night's deposit. I guess I can see where it would be appealing to those who have jobs like say a teacher, or maybe folks who have kids in school and only go in the summer.

My biggest fear is the lack of discounts...I think this is the beginning of the end of decent discounts. I'm going to enjoy my Beach Club stay 7/2-7/10 - I fear it will be our last deluxe. Then again, I might just buy into DVC and then I won't have to worry about any of this CRAP. I for one an insulted. I am a LOYAL and REGULAR guest. I pay out the nose to go to Disney, although I've never paid rack rate at a Deluxe. We still drop $2,500-$3,000 each trip. Lord knows last year I spent $7,800 on Disney vacations. I love the deluxe resorts, but I don't think they are worth rack rate. I can afford it, but I just won't do it. I wouldn't pay more than $260.91 for a resort ANYWHERE except Hawaii. The reason I say $260.91 is because that is what we're paying for our upcoming trip on 7/2 at the Beach Club, this includes tax and it's $100 off the rack rate.

Here is what I think Disney should do, although I know it doesn't matter what I think. If enough of you guys use this system, it will undoubtedly stick around. That's why I'm glad the poll results from this thread indicate that more people are against it than for it. Anyway, what I think they should do is offer a discount across the board. If you have an AP, you get X% off on the rooms. PERIOD. Us folks with APs go multiple times a year, that means we spend tons of money at Disney. They aren't losing any money on us...I can assure you of that.

Oh well - like I said, in the end I'll still be a passholder. I'll simply refuse to use this sytem and pray that enough people join me in refusing and it'll GO AWAY.

PamNC

 

[jarestel]

Unless the system is changed you'll be booking at rack rate and may miss out on a AAA discount. You may know exactly when and where you're staying but under this new system you've added a non-refundable deposit and change fee without getting anything guaranteed in return.

True, things happen and sometimes dates DO need to be changed, but that's the exception and not the rule. All of the airlines charge cancellation-modification penalties now and we're all used to doing business this way when flying, even though there was much groaning about it when this was initially implemented. In all likelihood, this is the business model of the future, so even though it's nice to be able to book and change reservations multiple times as moods change, it's not necessarily a bad thing to encourage us to think a little harder before grabbing the phone and modifying those ressies. If you were running a call center and figured out that some significant percentage of your agents time was spent not booking new sales, but changing or cancelling existing ones, it might make sense to try and recoup some of the cost by charging for cancellations or modifications.

But Disney isn't trying to trick us into booking rack rates, I'm fairly sure of this. There's no gain for them in implementing a program that lures people into booking at rack rates with the possibility of discounts later on. There will be discounts, IMO, since why implement a program that's doomed to fail? Doesn't make sense.

 

[lllovell]

Unless the system is changed you'll be booking at rack rate and may miss out on a AAA discount. You may know exactly when and where you're staying but under this new system you've added a non-refundable deposit and change fee without getting anything guaranteed in return.

The way the program is worded, you are correct, they could technically give AAA discounts to people and then charge AP holders rack rates.

Now explain to me WHY they would give people that are NOT AP holders better discounts than people getting discounts through a company that Disney doesn't own or benefit from? AAA helps them to keep rooms full. AP holders help to keep rooms full AND spend tons of money by taking multiple trips a year (since the break even point is pretty high, I am assumming that AP holders spend MORE days at WDW every year than non-AP holder for typical usage). They are doing lots of things to keep people on site (M.E. for example) and even more to keep AP holders EATING on site (DDE) and taking in more shows, etc (25% off Cirq, Hoopdedoo, etc).

No new program benefits everyone but this is about getting every dime out of people staying there. These room discounts have never been guaranteed, but most have come to expect them in the last 3-4 years. AP holders are good for their bottom line or they would be trying to limit the number of APs sold, not expanding the program year after year. This program will be good for the vast majority.

 

[C.Ann]

All of the airlines charge cancellation-modification penalties now and we're all used to doing business this way when flying, even though there was much groaning about it when this was initially implemented. .

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Just wanted to clarify that this is not correct.. SW does not charge cancellation or modification charges..

 

[jarestel]

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Just wanted to clarify that this is not correct.. SW does not charge cancellation or modification charges..

Well, they don't return your money either. If you don't use it to re-book within 12 months of the original reservation, you actually do forfeit the cash.

 

[C.Ann]

Well, they don't return your money either. If you don't use it to re-book within 12 months of the original reservation, you actually do forfeit the cash.

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True..but 12 months to replan your vacation with NO penalties beats this AP offer any day of the week..

 

[jarestel]

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True..but 12 months to replan your vacation with NO penalties beats this AP offer any day of the week..

This is a nice feature of SWA...

 

[C.Ann]

This is a nice feature of SWA...

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That's one of the many reasons I fly only SW - plus the non-stop flights.. I'm not crazy about wandering around airports I'm not familiar with and trying to catch a connecting flight..

 

[bicker]

Seeing as I design, code and test systems every day I can agree that testing is never 100%. But I also know that a new system is NOT taken online Friday afternoon, and then abandoned over the weekend to run incorrectly.

Where do you work, and are you hiring?

 

[arminnie]

Have we established yet whether the rack rate thing is a computer glitch or not? There was some question over the weekend as to whether the web site was completely up-and-running correctly yet.

I just booked a moderate room with a water view under the new AP program for $85 a night. When I looked up the price to book it without the new program it was $165 a night.

I am willing to risk a one night penalty or a $50 change fee for that kind of price reduction.

 

[bicker]

I just booked a moderate room with a water view under the new AP program for $85 a night. When I looked up the price to book it without the new program it was $165 a night.

Impressive! And doubly-so that they seem to have gotten some of the rack rate issue resolved in less than one business day.

 

[C.Ann]

I just booked a moderate room with a water view under the new AP program for $85 a night. When I looked up the price to book it without the new program it was $165 a night.

I am willing to risk a one night penalty or a $50 change fee for that kind of price reduction.

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That sounds pretty good - if you only need one room - and if you can plan that far in advance and be certain that your plans won't change..

I didn't know they already had this up and running.. It will be interesting to see what others get and how it all pans out for them.. Unfortunately it's just not a plan I can use..

 

[Tagrel]

If the starting rate quoted for this program consistently begins with the current (when booked) lowest available general rate then it has a chance. But I still would have to carefully weigh the non-refundable deposit and change costs. Things happen to frequently that force changes to plans. Only time will tell whether or not the final discounts are worth the gamble. And I shouldn't have to gamble to plan a Disney vacation!

There is a REASON SouthWest is one of the few profitable airlines. When you keep screwing over your best customers, they don't stay loyal. If Southwest started flying out of our local airport (or the one an hour a way for that matter!) I'd never fly USAir again! (and if they keep their current business model, I probably won't anyway. They'll be gone!)

People like choice and flexibility. Disney could have just added the capability to book online AP reservations, with a reasonable cancellation policy and all could have been fine. The internet savvy would LOVE to book online and save that phone call.

Instead, they decide to implement and execute a system 100% in their favor without fully instructing Travel Agents or even their own CM's as to the details of how it works. Bad business practices and bad public relations. Making excuses as to why it should be OK to operate like this doesn't excuse the unprofessional behavior of the industries leading customer service company.

 

[gullyf]

EDIT:
A poster above this has now stated that it appears Disney is in fact showing a rate other than rack rate before you book, which certainly allievates some of my concerns. "Blind" pricing is something a LOT of people are just not comfortable with. Note however, this actually indicates reason for more concern: this makes two programs (MYW was #1) in a row that were poorly implemented and ineffectively tested. I am not impressed that they got it fixed in one day: it should never have gone live and publicized without it being correct.

Now explain to me WHY they would give people that are NOT AP holders better discounts than people getting discounts through a company that Disney doesn't own or benefit from?

Turn the question around: why wouldn't they give AP holders better discounts than AAA? Well, because they haven't comitted to it, and there is no risk to them if they don't give a discount. In fact there is incentive to not give a discount, since you have already promised to give them $80 to $500+ to enter this "lottery". Ya know, there was a time when I would have been a little less cynical, but I was much younger then...

No new program benefits everyone but this is about getting every dime out of people staying there. These room discounts have never been guaranteed, but most have come to expect them in the last 3-4 years. AP holders are good for their bottom line or they would be trying to limit the number of APs sold, not expanding the program year after year. This program will be good for the vast majority.

And therein perhaps is the real reasoning behind this. AP holders have to be good for the bottom line, but a lot of people get AP's because they can save on the lodging OR because they can go a lot OR a combination of the two.

So how do you eliminate the reason a large number of passholders buy AP's, without causing them to stop buying annual passes? Classic psychology provides the answer. Give an animal a button that delivers an award. If you only give an award once, the button eventually gets ignored. Give a reward every time, and it eventually gets boring. Give the reward randomly, and the button gets pressed far more than if it gave a reward every time. It is win-win for Disney- they get your annual pass $, a cancellation fee if you can't make it or decide it is too expensive, a change fee if you try to do something else. Further, should you decide not to go as much, well, that's ok too- you are just paying a higher rate for your admission.

They are doing lots of things to keep people on site (M.E. for example) and even more to keep AP holders EATING on site (DDE) and taking in more shows, etc (25% off Cirq, Hoopdedoo, etc).

Which is exactly why this makes absolutely no sense...

...this is about getting every dime out of people staying there.

No argument there...

These room discounts have never been guaranteed, but most have come to expect them in the last 3-4 years. AP holders are good for their bottom line or they would be trying to limit the number of APs sold, not expanding the program year after year. This program will be good for the vast majority.

No, they have never been guaranteed, but then just stop them outright and let me know that. Don't insult my intelligence by trying to play me like a rat in a cage. This program is good for Disney, period. It is an attempt to not alienate people that appears to be failing miserably...