New $500 Resale DVC Transfer Fee

[mkatsy]

My understanding is that it has always been that way. If you have sections of the division that handle work for different tasks, some that are related to the program, like dues, and such, and others are not, like the servicing of loans, etc., then they can decide how to cover those. Similar to how a share resort functions....each gets charged their share....

It is why MS CM's can handle booking of special events for things like MM becaues they are funded by both dues and DVD.

Bas on what I have gathered, DVCMC LLC gets their earnings from different sources.

They earn the 12% of the operating budget for each association, they earn money from rentals from their points, they earn money from DVD to handle their adminstrative tasks, and they get money from breakage. Its possible they get funding from others as well.

As I have mentioned, DVCMC does not have to account for how they spend our 12%....they just have to provide us with the service that is contracted for.

I am in the process of trying to find my hard copy of the property management agreement, just to see what it says. But, if there is nothing in there that says that we are paying them already for whatever they are charging for....and we are still waiting to get more information on exactly what it is.

Could they simply continue to do it like always? Yes, but it means the cost comes out of their earnings and why would they do that? Why would they take on the extra costs for something they are not contracted to do....assuming I am correct in that the property management agreement does not already list this as a responsbility for them.

All of this is assuming that the statute that was brought up does not apply....which, as I said, I am leaning toward it not because its not the association instituting a fee....and its not really much different than the title companies charging for their role in the process, other than its DVCMC. But, that would be a legal issue for others to figure out.

Let's be honest....DVCMC isn't going to increase thier costs to reduce their profit unless they are obligated to do it. Obviously, up until now, the cost to do this has been rolled into DVCMC's budget....for whatever reason, they now plan to charge for the work.

Im not concerned about the 12% fee, and I'm not asking anyone to work for free, I certainly don’t. The question is ONLY the rate they are charging for their services … it is exorbitant and it feels like extortion because the product is useless unless they are paid.

 

[Sandisw]

I probably wasn’t clear. I’m not talking about the 12% flat rate we pay. I’m talking about the new $500 fee for 1/2 hour (at best) of work to change the name on an account. It feels incestuous that the people we pay to represent our interests, agreed to a grossly inflated fee, that the other entity they represent benefits from. They dismissed our fiduciary interest to favor the fiduciary interest of their other client.

I get that people think its an over charge, but one has nothing to do with the other. That was my point. If we don't contract with DVCMC to handle the adminstrative work once an ownership has changed hands, then I don't see that they have a fiduciary responsiblity to us in this case.

That is why I said this is so difficult because with DVC, everything is intertwined, but they do run seperately.....they wear different hats, and we, as owners, are stuck with that.

I guess I see it as something completely different. They are doing X work....and up until now, they didn't charge the owner for the work directly....they charged it against something else....now, they have decided that the parties to the contract have to pay it...whether that be buyer or seller....don't know.

I mean, someone decided way back when that we would be paying a 12% flat fee....where did that come from? DVCMC gets to do with that what they want....they don't have to account for how they spend it.....and for all we know, they could do the job for a lot less...but, that is not what we contracted for and are stuck.

So, for me, and what I will ask, is to expand on what this fee is for and to ask for clarification why it wouldn't already be covered through the 12% management fee we already pay....

 

[Sandisw]

Im not concerned about the 12% fee, and I'm not asking anyone to work for free, I certainly don’t. The question is ONLY the rate they are charging for their services … it is exorbitant and it feels like extortion because the product is useless unless they are paid.

Unfortunately, that is the way life is and businesses get to charge what they want. Many say the % that resale brokers charge to sell contracts is too high for the work they do, or the amount of closing costs buyers have to pay for title companies to handle the sale, etc. and on and on.

So, while $500 is a pretty steep price, and maybe they should charge less, they get to decide what they charge. Now, owners who are bothered by this amount should defintiely be contacting DVC and sharing their thoughts....

 

[walt34]

Unfortunately, that is the way life is and businesses get to charge what they want. Many say the % that resale brokers charge to sell contracts is too high for the work they do, or the amount of closing costs buyers have to pay for title companies to handle the sale, etc. and on and on.

So, while $500 is a pretty steep price, and maybe they should charge less, they get to decide what they charge. Now, owners who are bothered by this amount should defintiely be contacting DVC and sharing their thoughts.....

Well, the difference is that I am free to use or not use a resale company (if I don’t like their fees) while as an owner, who is now suddenly affected by this fee, I have to accept the resulting loss in value and cannot avoid it.

 

[mkatsy]

Unfortunately, that is the way life is and businesses get to charge what they want. Many say the % that resale brokers charge to sell contracts is too high for the work they do, or the amount of closing costs buyers have to pay for title companies to handle the sale, etc. and on and on.

So, while $500 is a pretty steep price, and maybe they should charge less, they get to decide what they charge. Now, owners who are bothered by this amount should defintiely be contacting DVC and sharing their thoughts....

Brokers and title companies are optional services that people (myself included) choose for their expertise in navigating a complex process. With the correct education, you can accomplish both tasks yourself. I cannot change the name on the contract in the Disney system myself. I cannot hire a third party vendor to change the name on the contract in the Disney system for me … Disney has a monopoly, our product is useless without their participation, and they have begun to shake the money tree

 

[zavandor]

Could they simply continue to do it like always? Yes, but it means the cost comes out of their earnings and why would they do that? Why would they take on the extra costs for something they are not contracted to do....assuming I am correct in that the property management agreement does not already list this as a responsbility for them.

I don't understand why for resale contracts DVD has a say at all. A resale purchaser is not a DVD client, the membership association should handle transfers of contracts (and we know they are able to).

 

[zavandor]

Unfortunately, that is the way life is and businesses get to charge what they want. Many say the % that resale brokers charge to sell contracts is too high for the work they do, or the amount of closing costs buyers have to pay for title companies to handle the sale, etc. and on and on.

So, while $500 is a pretty steep price, and maybe they should charge less, they get to decide what they charge. Now, owners who are bothered by this amount should defintiely be contacting DVC and sharing their thoughts....

Do you think it would be legal to charge $10,000 instead of $500?

 

[BeachClub2014]

The Walt Disney Company has been shaking the money tree since forever. This $500 "DVC tax" is a new and relatively minor revenue stream to offset expenses. Stockholders should applaud this move. Also, the beauty of it is that this fee is totally avoidable.

 

[Sandisw]

Brokers and title companies are optional services that people (myself included) choose for their expertise in navigating a complex process. With the correct education, you can accomplish both tasks yourself. I cannot change the name on the contract in the Disney system myself. I cannot hire a third party vendor to change the name on the contract in the Disney system for me … Disney has a monopoly, our product is useless without their participation, and they have begun to shake the money tree

While I get the frustration, my point was that a lot of things in life have fees that I am forced to pay that are higher than I would like....and those things are not optional...but I am stuck.

Look at the discussion we had a few weeks back about housekeeping and how much it has risen. Some would rather see it no longer part of dues because they may not use their DVC for as many trips as other owners.

Yes, this defiintely changes things when one buys or sells a DVC. And, you are correct that there are things in the process of buying and selling that an owner/buyer can't do on their own, including setting up the DVC account.

So, I agree, it stinks that buying resale now comes with an additional fee that can't be avoided....

 

[Sandisw]

Do you think it would be legal to charge $10,000 instead of $500?

Opinion:

I think a buyer/seller would have a case that what they were charging was exorbitant and be able to potentially legally fight it on those grounds.

But, not on the grounds that it is a violation of the statue that was shared, or a violation of their right to charge for work they are doing...as long as the person paying the fee hasn't paid it already.

Right now, $500 doesn't seem to me high enough to fight it on those grounds, given that other systems charge $300 to $400?

Two different situations.....

My thoughts on this are simple.....are they allowed to add a $500 CAF to the process? If the answer is yes, then regardless of my own opinion on why it was done, or the cost, then I have to accept it.

 

[Carouselofplanning]

I get that people think its an over charge, but one has nothing to do with the other. That was my point. If we don't contract with DVCMC to handle the adminstrative work once an ownership has changed hands, then I don't see that they have a fiduciary responsiblity to us in this case.

That is why I said this is so difficult because with DVC, everything is intertwined, but they do run seperately.....they wear different hats, and we, as owners, are stuck with that.

I guess I see it as something completely different. They are doing X work....and up until now, they didn't charge the owner for the work directly....they charged it against something else....now, they have decided that the parties to the contract have to pay it...whether that be buyer or seller....don't know.

I mean, someone decided way back when that we would be paying a 12% flat fee....where did that come from? DVCMC gets to do with that what they want....they don't have to account for how they spend it.....and for all we know, they could do the job for a lot less...but, that is not what we contracted for and are stuck.

So, for me, and what I will ask, is to expand on what this fee is for and to ask for clarification why it wouldn't already be covered through the 12% management fee we already pay....

Not only is DVC and its arms so intertwined but so is DVC vis a vis their parent company, which is why there is a compelling argument that these separate entities are, at the end of the day, illusory. Disney proudly reports earnings that include DVC but whenever there’s a legal or financial argument to be made that different entities do different things and are subject to different rules and regulations (and consequences), then the DVC acronym machine gets cranked right up to find an entity to hide behind.

 

[walt34]

Right now, $500 doesn't seem to me high enough to fight it on those grounds, given that other systems charge $300 to $400?

One interesting question is whether these fees in other systems have the same legal basis as DVC or do those direct contacts already mention an administrative fee for transfers?

 

[pzw90]

How long before we see a fee to call MS for anything you can't do online? Following the trend of charging for something that was free before? Some airlines already do it, I understand Disney is not an airline but wouldn't be surprised if it takes examples from elsewhere

 

[Sandisw]

I don't understand why for resale contracts DVD has a say at all. A resale purchaser is not a DVD client, the membership association should handle transfers of contracts (and we know they are able to).

Maybe I am wrong and that the developer of a timeshare is not the one responsible for covering the costs to DVMC for setting up accounts. I have to go back and re-read FL 721 about it.

As I have mentioned, my understanding is that DVD pays a share of the costs for DVCMC to handle all aspects of selling the timeshare, which includes setting up accounts, etc.

The assocation doesn't handle anything when it comes to the program. They hired DVCMC to do it. They are not the same....even though the people are...

It really comes down to whether or not the 12% fee we are paying DVCMC to manage the program already covers this duty...if it does, then there should not be an extra charge.

If it doesn't, then DVCMC can charge someone for the work.

 

[Sandisw]

How long before we see a fee to call MS for anything you can't do online? Following the trend of charging for something that was free before? Some airlines already do it, I understand Disney is not an airline but wouldn't be surprised if it takes examples from elsewhere

They can't charge for that because that is a duty that I know is already including in management fee. The issue here is whether or not owners are already paying for it via the management fee.

 

[davidhr]

Incompetence, negligence, and mistakes exist at all levels of every organization.

I always say this: just think how many incompetent people you have worked with. Do you really think that it only happens to your workplace?

Sad (or scary) thing is that it happens to all professions. Even some that can kill you!

I have friends in the medical field that I wouldn’t even let them give me a suggestion for OTC cold medication

 

[Sandisw]

Not only is DVC and its arms so intertwined but so is DVC vis a vis their parent company, which is why there is a compelling argument that these separate entities are, at the end of the day, illusory. Disney proudly reports earnings that include DVC but whenever there’s a legal or financial argument to be made that different entities do different things and are subject to different rules and regulations (and consequences), then the DVC acronym machine gets cranked right up to find an entity to hide behind.

I agree with that. It is all the same people and entities of Disney company. But, when it comes to technicalities, those things can play a role for sure!

 

[Carouselofplanning]

Maybe I am wrong and that the developer of a timeshare is not the one responsible for covering the costs to DVMC for setting up accounts. I have to go back and re-read FL 721 about it.

As I have mentioned, my understanding is that DVD pays a share of the costs for DVCMC to handle all aspects of selling the timeshare, which includes setting up accounts, etc.

The assocation doesn't handle anything when it comes to the program. They hired DVCMC to do it. They are not the same....even though the people are...

It really comes down to whether or not the 12% fee we are paying DVCMC to manage the program already covers this duty...if it does, then there should not be an extra charge.

If it doesn't, then DVCMC can charge someone for it....

***Deleted****
I misread your post

 

[gvel]

I will happily pay the $500 if it means the previous owners rights are passed across in the admin of the account change over.

So Blue cards for all resale buyers if buying a previous direct contract. No resort restrictions.

 

[eticketplease]

In the resale instance, this is a transfer from an owner with an account to a buyer who didn’t buy from DVD. So why is DVD involved in the resale transaction?

They are not

DVCMC can’t handle that?

They do.