Never too old to learn

[ww52]

I learned something very important today. Why the term "female" can be consdiered derogatory to women.

I used the term to collectively refer to the girls/women in our group. I was called out on it as potentially a misogynistic "dog whistle". I was shocked - I didn't know how else to refer to a group that indcuded both girls (well under 18) and women (well over).

I certainly meant no disrespect or condescension etc - as I've since learned (and understand) that it can be received as.

Fro background - I'm a man well over 60, married with children and grandchildren. I'm hardly what anyone would call a bigot, a chauvinist, anti-anything except anti-bigotry, prejudice.

And I appreciate the lesson I learned today.

Unfortunately, I blocked the person who called me out since she decided to carry on the conversation in private. I wish I had not - now that I've done a bit of research. I understand her point of view now.

EDIT - it's ironic though that in my profile I am listed as a "male" and I assume there are those "female".

 

[tvguy]

I'd have been guilty of that too. 100% factually correct, but offensive to some. And I am over 60 too.

I got chewed out by a supervisor for referring to our Food Bank....as the "Food Bank". He was from a part of the country where they would it something like "Food Support Center" or "Nutrition Assistance Center" or "Food Repository" which certainly does soften the meaning a bit. Problem was, Food Bank IS the actual name of our Food Bank. We have several in town, one uses the name "Food Basket" another "Food Pantry" and another "Food Closet"

 

[easyas123]

so...I'm a bit confused. I've been able to somehow reach the age of 45, amazingly all while being a female, and never once considered it a derogatory term. I've also been referred to as "ladies" while within a group of other gals/girls/females/ladies/non-male persons?????
I hope your post was meant as sarcasm, because as a f****e I'm offended by calling out folks who have no bad intentions! If you are serious , on behalf of level minded FEMALES everywhere, please accept my sincere condolences on someone trying to make a mountain out of the grain of sand that is the perfectly acceptable and non-misogynistic dog-whistle term 'female'.
What in the world are we coming to?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Hopefully you also realized that their was one person in that group that seemed to be a troublemaker.

 

[Southernmiss]

There was a heated discussion on this term and a few others that are offensive a few months ago on this forum.

I think guns may have also been involved.

ETA
Yes, there were 2 threads Nov. 23 and 24 2017 about this topic.

 

[yesdnil]

Here's the difference, female is fine as an adjective, but not as a noun. So, saying "female shoes" wouldn't offend anyone, but don't refer to women as "females" - simply call us "women."

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

This is why nobody pays attention to academic feminism any more. Instead of arguing for things like equal pay for equal work and for stricter rape laws and the like and stricter domestic battery laws and the like, they're busy turning themselves into an academic backwater complaining about the word female and women because the words have male and men in them. That's when they're not telling us all sex is rape and all males are toxic. And as for the word misogynistic, i find it incredibly ironic that term was used by someone complaining of dog whistles because it itself is a dog whistle. If someone is sexist, they deserve to be completely called out using the term. If not, they don't deserve to be tarnished with a dog whistle.

 

[ww52]

I doubt I have ever referred to a woman as a female or a group of women as females. The only reason I did it this time is it was a mix of one grade school age girl and 3 adult women.

But I erad up and I clearly see where it can be considered derogatory or condescending when said by a man - when the term "woman or women" would make more sense (since "female" is not a noun).

 

[sam_gordon]

Here's the difference, female is fine as an adjective, but not as a noun. So, saying "female shoes" wouldn't offend anyone, but don't refer to women as "females" - simply call us "women."

"Women" doesn't work. You wouldn't call a 6yo a "woman", would you?

I guess you can use "girls". Oops, nope, that probably offends adults.
Maybe "ladies"?

Sorry, seems like another reason to get upset over nothing.

 

[yesdnil]

I doubt I have ever referred to a woman as a female or a group of women as females. The only reason I did it this time is it was a mix of one grade school age girl and 3 adult women.

But I erad up and I clearly see where it can be considered derogatory or condescending when said by a man - when the term "woman or women" would make more sense (since "female" is not a noun).

In this scenario, "ladies" would have been perfectly acceptable as well, or if a small group, refer to them each individually.

 

[yesdnil]

"Women" doesn't work. You wouldn't call a 6yo a "woman", would you?

I guess you can use "girls". Oops, nope, that probably offends adults.
Maybe "ladies"?

Sorry, seems like another reason to get upset over nothing.

"Women" is perfectly acceptable, young girls or not. I mean, they make baby clothes with sayings like "little man" and no one says, "no, he's under x years old, we have to call him a boy, not a man."

 

[ww52]

I worried that this would turn into a debate of some sort.

I simply hoped the person I blocked would see it and understand I appreciated learning something I didn't know.

It reminds me of decades ago when I tried to explain to my parents why the term "colored" was offensive. They weren't prejudice (by 1960s standards) but they didnt' see it.

To me, I don't get to decide what is and isn't offensive to a group I don't belong to.

 

[BrianL]

...since "female" is not a noun....

I do not want to wade into the controversy, but the grammarian in feels obligated to point out that the terms "male" and "female" are defined as both nouns and adjectives. I am not making any implications regarding sensitivity to the terms, but am only stating what is factually correct.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Here's the difference, female is fine as an adjective, but not as a noun. So, saying "female shoes" wouldn't offend anyone, but don't refer to women as "females" - simply call us "women."

Women is not allowed. It's Womyn or Wofem!!!!

 

[yesdnil]

I do not want to wade into the controversy, but the grammarian in feels obligated to point out that the terms "male" and "female" are defined as both nouns and adjectives. I am not making any implications regarding sensitivity to the terms, but am only stating what is factually correct.

Lots of grammatically correct terms are still offensive. I didn't say that it couldn't be defined as a noun, simply that it's only offensive when used as a noun to refer to human women.

 

[BrianL]

Lots of grammatically correct terms are still offensive. I didn't say that it couldn't be defined as a noun, simply that it's only offensive when used as a noun to refer to human women.

I was replying to the statement that "'female' is not a noun," and only that statement. The English major in me doesn't want anyone going around thinking that is true because it simply isn't. I will take no stance on the controversial nature of said word here.

 

[Disneypeach]

I see this as a terminology issue...I routinely see male humans referred to as "men" and in the same sentence female humans referred to as just "females"...Female what???? giraffes? cats? chipmunks?
The word "men" is specific where "females" is not...equality is important in even in word choice. Male/female is equal...men/women is equal...men/female is not equal.

 

[sam_gordon]

"Women" is perfectly acceptable, young girls or not. I mean, they make baby clothes with sayings like "little man" and no one says, "no, he's under x years old, we have to call him a boy, not a man."

I wouldn't refer to a 6 year old boy (I'm ok saying that or is that offensive?) as a "man", just like I wouldn't refer to a 6 year old girl (is that ok?) as a "woman".

Granted, I don't use "female" as a noun to start with, but it seems a really silly thing to be upset about.

 

[yesdnil]

I was replying to the statement that "'female' is not a noun," and only that statement. The English major in me doesn't want anyone going around thinking that is true because it simply isn't. I will take no stance on the controversial nature of said word here.

Whew. I was an English major, too. I'm shocked that you're still insisting that I said it was grammatically correct as a noun, instead of going back to my post and seeing I simply said it's only a problem when used as a noun.

 

[BrianL]

Whew. I was an English major, too. I'm shocked that you're still insisting that I said it was grammatically correct as a noun, instead of going back to my post and seeing I simply said it's only a problem when used as a noun.

It was not a reply to your post at all and I have not insinuated that you said anything at all. My post was solely in response to @ww52 and his statement that I quoted. It seemed to me that he thought that the term was not a noun. It is. I merely pointed that out. And yes, I realize I am being rather pedantic regarding the matter.