Need some advice please!

[Kira G.]

Hello all!

I am running the Mickey marathon next month - it's my very first marathon ever, and I'm looking for training advice.

I've been more or less following the Bingham run/walk training plan, but due to a number of factors (Achilles injury, sick kids, a couple of low motivation weeks, etc.!) I got behind in the training plan. Essentially in order to do a 20-miler in 2 weeks, I got myself into a situation where I thought I should just eliminate all my taper weeks. So rather than running 10, 8, 12, 14, 8, 16, etc. my last three long runs have been 12, 14, 16, and I planned to run 18 this upcoming weekend, and then 20 the following week.

All was going well until my 16-miler yesterday. It was ROUGH to say the least! There were a lot of things going on that contributed to that - in particular I ran at lunchtime (which I never do), and I went out with too fast a pace. Around mile 13 my legs started to cramp up, and I ended up walking most of the last 3 miles.

Maybe I should just shrug that off, but it's making me question my training plan. Next weekend is going to be stressful for non-running reasons (my daughter is in the Nutcracker all day on Saturday), and I'm wondering if I might be better off doing a lower mileage run next weekend (like 8-10 miles). Would it work to then do 20 the following weekend? Or should I consider only doing 18 as my last long run? That worries me because I think the 20-miler may be psychologically important for me.

I would love hear people's opinions! Should I push myself to do the 18 miles next weekend followed by 20? Will I be OK if I scale back for a week? AAACK!

And by the way I think I must be completely crazy for doing any of this!!! Help!

Thanks in advance!

 

[cewait]

First don’t think you gotta catch up. Second, covering the distance still counts no matter how you finish. Third, you possibly have learned a lesson on pacing and one that hopefully will be remembered on January 10.
If I read this correct you have run 12, 14 and 16 over the last three weeks. I am assuming that the 16 miler is your long run to date. In a basic training plan we would pull back mileage this week. I think your 8-10 would work but if I were you coach I would ask you to try 10-12. The following week I would have you run 16-19. Large spread but you are not feeling good about your 16 and you just may feel like punting once you hit 16. The range gives you permission to back off at 16. The 19 gets you to the All Star Resort on Marathon day and leaves you with 7 short miles to the finish. As a first timer I really want you to hit 20 for psychological reasons. Physiologically you will do fine with only a 16 mile long run. The range given keeps you in a safe mileage expansion zone.

You have had an injury issue during training so I want you to then follow your MFM taper plan to the end. The only reason I would suggest cutting out taper is if you were on a last minute build coming from a few week off injury.

Remember that tape is a decrease in volume not intensity. Keep up with the mid week stuff during taper and run the long runs.

I hope this helps. For all practicable purposes you are now ready to go. You just need a last long run that you can put in the bank and feel like you had success with it.

Train Hard – Live Clean

 

[Kira G.]

Wow, Coach, thank you so much for that thoughtful reply! I can't tell you how much more confidence it brought me and how much I appreciate it.

I will follow your advice and let you know how it goes. I'm actually starting to feel excited again. The power of WiSH at work!

 

[tiberius]

Just to add a little bit to Coach Charles' outstanding answer,

Kira, pretty much everyone has a bad run now and then, but that doesn't mean there's a problem with your training because of it. Two weeknds ago I had a "shorter" 10 mile long run, and it was tough and I felt bad at the end. THen last weekend I run a half marathon PR in bad weather on the toughest, hilliest course I have ever seen--and I felt like I could have kept on going for a while at the end.
The best thing you'll have going for you at the marathon, after your training base, will be that you'll be helped out by your adrenaline becasue of all the excitement of being there.

Good luck in January!

 

[K80K]

Another vote for what Charles laid out for you. I can tell you I finished my first Mickey with a 16.5 mile training run that was 2 months out from race day. So it can be done. It is more important to show up on race day healthy and rested.

 

[Tiger Lily 03]

Kira, follow what Coach Charles has offered. My added comment will be that you WILL do this. Put that in your mind. Visualize crossing that finish line. Look for anyone along the course, you can chat with pretty much anyone, and they will take your mind off any bad (stonker) run you may have had in the past. I don't know your current pace, but you may consider slowing the pace a bit in the beginning and if you feel strong in the second half of the event, then pick it up. Stay healthy, enjoy taper madness.

It is pretty amazing to find WISH Team members passing me and chatting me, and vice/versa as I travel along the course at my various paces. You'll find it in you to get it done!

 

[MouseDogMom]

Kira - I was injured for 2 months last fall, and took 6 weeks off completely in August and September and then started from scratch. I ran a VERY slow half marathon on November 2, a 16 mile run on 11/8, and then got sick. I didn't run any distance at all until December 13, when I ran 10, then followed that on December 20 with a 20 mile walk with Jeanne and Wendy. I followed that with a 10 mile run the following week, and that was all the running I did until the marathon in January! I'm certainly not recommending this plan, but I offer it only as an example of how you can survive with what you've already done.

I think Charles is right - if you can do 10 and then follow that with a 20, you should be fine. I was determined to get the 20 last year, even though that day was one of the worst of my life - we made the decision to put our dog to sleep as I was heading out for the run, and Jeanne and Wendy had to listen to me sob for 6 long hours!

And like Lily said, there will be plenty of WISH teammates along the course to help you through!

Jackie

 

[BrianD]

I am in a somewhat similar situation with injury & other family issues, and I feel like I am just stumbling my way towards the marathon (my first). This past weekend I finally hit 13 miles in my training (had done lots of 6 to 8 milers and a 10 and a 12), with a calf injury mixed in. So it has been slow for me to really ramp up on the mileage due to that injury. This weekend I am jumping up to 18 miles (I am doing more walking than running so I feel like I can handle the 5 mile jump, and I still felt pretty good at the end of the 13), and then 11 days later will peak with a 21 miler. That will give me 2.5 weeks to taper before the marathon.

One of the biggest issues I have had is being consistent during the week. It has just been difficult for me to get out there any more than a couple of times during the middle of the week. I have been putting a priority on the long runs, because I know getting to the distance is the most important thing.

But even though I am not in as good as shape as I had hoped I would be by now, I feel like I will make it, and as long as I can believe that, I know that will be half the battle.

So all this to say, good luck the rest of the way, and just know that there will be plenty of us in the same boat on Jan 10!

 

[cewait]

I am in a somewhat similar situation with injury & other family issues, and I feel like I am just stumbling my way towards the marathon (my first). This past weekend I finally hit 13 miles in my training (had done lots of 6 to 8 milers and a 10 and a 12), with a calf injury mixed in. So it has been slow for me to really ramp up on the mileage due to that injury. This weekend I am jumping up to 18 miles (I am doing more walking than running so I feel like I can handle the 5 mile jump, and I still felt pretty good at the end of the 13), and then 11 days later will peak with a 21 miler. That will give me 2.5 weeks to taper before the marathon.

One of the biggest issues I have had is being consistent during the week. It has just been difficult for me to get out there any more than a couple of times during the middle of the week. I have been putting a priority on the long runs, because I know getting to the distance is the most important thing.

But even though I am not in as good as shape as I had hoped I would be by now, I feel like I will make it, and as long as I can believe that, I know that will be half the battle.

So all this to say, good luck the rest of the way, and just know that there will be plenty of us in the same boat on Jan 10!

Whew... I would urge caution here.

You are really a great candidate for a shorter taper and sticking with a longer build up. I have no doubt that a runner can successfully complete a marathon per your plan. However with a recent injury and in a first marathon attempt I would counsel closer following of the 10% rule. Without seeing a little more about your last 4-6 long runs I would suggest a more cautious approach here at the end. We have four weeks until marathon. Your last run was 13 miles. I would suggest a 14-15 mile run this weekend. Next weekend (12/19-20) I would grow that to 16-18 miles followed by your 18-20 mile run on Christmas weekend. Then on the weekend of January 2-3 I would pull back to 6-10 miles. This would still give you two weeks of taper.

It probably not what you want to hear but it is a safer play to get you to the line on Jan 10 in a healthier, well trained (as well as you can be with the recent injuries) and rested manner. You WILL DO THIS and have a great time

 

[BrianD]

Whew... I would urge caution here.

You are really a great candidate for a shorter taper and sticking with a longer build up. I have no doubt that a runner can successfully complete a marathon per your plan. However with a recent injury and in a first marathon attempt I would counsel closer following of the 10% rule. Without seeing a little more about your last 4-6 long runs I would suggest a more cautious approach here at the end. We have four weeks until marathon. Your last run was 13 miles. I would suggest a 14-15 mile run this weekend. Next weekend (12/19-20) I would grow that to 16-18 miles followed by your 18-20 mile run on Christmas weekend. Then on the weekend of January 2-3 I would pull back to 6-10 miles. This would still give you two weeks of taper.

It probably not what you want to hear but it is a safer play to get you to the line on Jan 10 in a healthier, well trained (as well as you can be with the recent injuries) and rested manner. You WILL DO THIS and have a great time

Actually, I really appreciate the advice! My thinking originally was that I would go 13 (this past Saturday), 18, 10, 21, and then two weeks of taper to the marathon. Then when I looked at the calendar and saw Christmas being the day before my 21 miler, I thought I would move that to Dec. 23rd so that I wouldn't have to be quite so "good" on Christmas, food wise. My other justification was that it would just give me a taper that is closer to three weeks instead of two.

But I think I will go with what you are saying. I was thinking it would be good for me to have more than a week between an 18 & a 21 miler, but I guess it would be more dangerous for me to make a five mile jump in one week. And now I guess I will just have to eat healthier on Christmas, which is a good idea anyway!

Thank you again for the advice!

 

[cewait]

Actually, I really appreciate the advice! My thinking originally was that I would go 13 (this past Saturday), 18, 10, 21, and then two weeks of taper to the marathon. Then when I looked at the calendar and saw Christmas being the day before my 21 miler, I thought I would move that to Dec. 23rd so that I wouldn't have to be quite so "good" on Christmas, food wise. My other justification was that it would just give me a taper that is closer to three weeks instead of two.

But I think I will go with what you are saying. I was thinking it would be good for me to have more than a week between an 18 & a 21 miler, but I guess it would be more dangerous for me to make a five mile jump in one week. And now I guess I will just have to eat healthier on Christmas, which is a good idea anyway!

Thank you again for the advice!

Just keep an eye on the calf. Do not be a hero on trying to make distance.... You can get to the marathon on a shorter long run and in better health but might not get there injurerd from a pushed through training run.

 

[TnTsParty]

I love your advise Charles.

Kinda funny this year I am not a freaked out by the 26.2 mile distance as I was last year so I know how everyone who is doing it for the first time is feeling. That being said listen to Charles and get to Jan 10 injury free. With the excitement of the race, the crowds and just being at Disney will help carry you through those last tough miles. The one cool thing I like is being able to run "backstage" at the Disney parks just within the parks themself. in those last 5 tough miles you run through the longest section of parks (I think anyway) since you go through both MGM (as I still call it) and Epcot along with the awesome Boardwalk.

As for my training plan I am feeling good about the Goofy. I had motivation problems until just recently and with the holidays coming up it seems to put a damper on my training. I have never been good about getting my mid week runs in (even last year) but I try to make sure I am sticking with the long runs even though I haven't been good about doing back to back long runs. Last week I got in a 4 miler on Saturday and an 18 miler on Sunday. The week before it was 2 miler Saturday and 14 miles on Sunday. The week before I was out of town and although while away I did a 5k I didn't do any other running - did a lot of walking since I went to the NASCAR race and we had to park so far away. So I ended up blowing off my 16 miler off. The week before that I got in 10 miles on the TM.

So Charles - what do you think of my remaining training plan - I have scheduled a 14 miler this Sunday, a 20 miler on the 20th, then 12 the Sunday after Christmas and 8 miles the 3rd. Seems pretty close to the "taper" I had last year without me checking my records. I am dealing with a sore hip/leg not sure exactly what it is but it might be the piriformis muscle although I felt pretty good after my 18 miler and my legs barely bothered me during and after. Not sure if I should be doing more back to backs or what. Again thanks for your help Coach!!

 

[cewait]

I love your advise Charles.

Kinda funny this year I am not a freaked out by the 26.2 mile distance as I was last year so I know how everyone who is doing it for the first time is feeling. That being said listen to Charles and get to Jan 10 injury free. With the excitement of the race, the crowds and just being at Disney will help carry you through those last tough miles. The one cool thing I like is being able to run "backstage" at the Disney parks just within the parks themself. in those last 5 tough miles you run through the longest section of parks (I think anyway) since you go through both MGM (as I still call it) and Epcot along with the awesome Boardwalk.

As for my training plan I am feeling good about the Goofy. I had motivation problems until just recently and with the holidays coming up it seems to put a damper on my training. I have never been good about getting my mid week runs in (even last year) but I try to make sure I am sticking with the long runs even though I haven't been good about doing back to back long runs. Last week I got in a 4 miler on Saturday and an 18 miler on Sunday. The week before it was 2 miler Saturday and 14 miles on Sunday. The week before I was out of town and although while away I did a 5k I didn't do any other running - did a lot of walking since I went to the NASCAR race and we had to park so far away. So I ended up blowing off my 16 miler off. The week before that I got in 10 miles on the TM.

So Charles - what do you think of my remaining training plan - I have scheduled a 14 miler this Sunday, a 20 miler on the 20th, then 12 the Sunday after Christmas and 8 miles the 3rd. Seems pretty close to the "taper" I had last year without me checking my records. I am dealing with a sore hip/leg not sure exactly what it is but it might be the piriformis muscle although I felt pretty good after my 18 miler and my legs barely bothered me during and after. Not sure if I should be doing more back to backs or what. Again thanks for your help Coach!!

Not sure what you running speed is and I think Don is having a few speed issues. I met Don during my first marathon. He was past the gates backstage MGM (at the time) holding his medal and with a soft yet powerful voice telling us this is what we came for. I was outraged but turned that to power and determination once it sank in. I do not think I would have made the end with out his forceful voice. I know that he stands at the very end of BWV now since the mouse moved all animation to CA. Look for him as you go by,

Back to the question. I do not see anything that bothers me about your schedule. Keep care of the piriformis. If your hip says stop---- Stop.

As you well know the piriformis (aka filet Mignon of the human body) heals slowly and it may well flare up. Keep to you schedule but if needed give yourself permission to stop.

I would not do any more back to backs unless you train the Ironman Brick way. If you just want to get the feel and check out the legs, get out an run 3-4 miles the day after your long run. It's truly a better assessment of the feeling and lowers significantly your injury risks.

Keep it safe and injury free

 

[Kira G.]

Just wanted to say hi and let everyone know how I was doing. I'm so glad that my initial question was helpful to other people as well as me. It's funny - I don't belong to a local running club, and I do all my running by myself, but it is not at all true that I am doing this on my own! I really do have a team behind me, and I appreciate each and every one of you.

I did a 10-miler today, and felt great! My short runs last week were a bit slow and rough, and I had a very busy weekend (my daughter danced in the Nutcracker on Saturday, which pretty much consumed all of Friday and Saturday for me). However, I went out today well-rested and smart, kept my pace moderate, and ran negative splits for the first time in many, many weeks. I feel ready to take on my longest distance next weekend. I don't expect to run negative splits all the way through my 20-miles, but I know I'm prepared and will do my best. And if worst comes to worst, I know that I can get the steps in no matter how ugly it gets (that was another lesson of that nasty 16-miler I did last week!).

By the way, one of the things I got totally clear about today is that I don't have the same body I had 2 years ago when I started my running journey. 10 miles really did seem like a fairly short and easy run! That would not have been conceivable to me just a short while ago.

 

[wtpclc]

Kira - I just wanted to add my DH's story. 2 years ago, he had severe achillies issues and shin splints. We thougth he had a stress fracture. He didn't finihs teh 18 (not sure if it was attempted), skipped teh following a8 and might have done 6 to 8 the weekend of the 20-miler. Got back on track for the 10 and teh 6. He was fine for the marathon. He had the blessing of it not being his first time, but was still scared. You can do it with a max of 16. not recommended, but you can do it. Please don't take out all taper. Especially with your injuries, let your body rest. Rest can sometimes do so much more than a training run, even if it's your 18 or 20-miler.

PS - We have only finished both our 18 and our 20 milers one out of 4 years of training. Things happen. We try to get it in, but know now that if your body says it ain't happening, it'll be OK.