Need opinions

[declansdad]

This thread has been really interesting.

Prior to reading this, the only people I've ever known or known of who call themselves married that aren't officially married are same sex partners who have made that commitment but are unable to legally marry. Every couple I've known who made the choice to live together without getting married have done so specifically and would have corrected anyone who referred to them as husband/wife regardless of any legal commonlaw business.

I'm really surprised that people think that this is so common that the OP or anyone else should have known better than to call them unmarried - when I've never heard of anyone who wasn't married refer to themselves as married before.

I have never thought this was about the card but rather the terms husband and wife. If two people are living together as husband and wife, then there is nothing wrong with them using the terms.

A marriage is simply a contract between two people. There are two reasons this is an issue. First the government decided long ago that they should be in the marriage business. Second, the churches decided they needed to be in the religious business. Put both of these together and people only look at marriage through these two perspectives when it is simply two people deciding that they want to live as one and form a family.

 

[wendyt_ca]

I have never thought this was about the card but rather the terms husband and wife. If two people are living together as husband and wife, then there is nothing wrong with them using the terms.

A marriage is simply a contract between two people. There are two reasons this is an issue. First the government decided long ago that they should be in the marriage business. Second, the churches decided they needed to be in the religious business. Put both of these together and people only look at marriage through these two perspectives when it is simply two people deciding that they want to live as one and form a family.

And this proves that considering ppl who have not actually gotten married husband/wife is what I meant by taking the sacredness from marriage because it turns it into nothing more than a piece of paper that is a contract. That is the problem I did not get married to have a contract I got married to be the wife of the person I love and want to be with. They may be common law or "spouses" those are correct terms but husband and wife is not. That is the problem if ppl start calling ppl who live together (an I discussed this with many much older than her who have been with their partner a lot longer and they agreed they are not husband and wife and said if someone said they were they would correct them) because then when ppl get married it is turning into basically a party and it isn't.

 

[declansdad]

And this proves that considering ppl who have not actually gotten married husband/wife is what I meant by taking the sacredness from marriage because it turns it into nothing more than a piece of paper that is a contract. That is the problem I did not get married to have a contract I got married to be the wife of the person I love and want to be with. They may be common law or "spouses" those are correct terms but husband and wife is not. That is the problem if ppl start calling ppl who live together (an I discussed this with many much older than her who have been with their partner a lot longer and they agreed they are not husband and wife and said if someone said they were they would correct them) because then when ppl get married it is turning into basically a party and it isn't.

People are married when they enter into a consensual and contractual relationship as recognized by law. In many jurisdictions, a couple that is living common law is recognized as being married, they are well within their rights to call each other husband and wife.

If you or people much older don't agree with it, that is your opinion; but the fact is they are recognized by many different groups (as pointed out by many posters) as husband and wife.

Where did anyone say that people getting married it is turning into a party?

 

[TheZue]

I would consider them husband and wife. I've heard the terms common law husband and common law wife many times over the years. Anyways it's a stupid reason to fight with your 'friend'...it's none of your business what card she buys for her significant other. And honestly I can't believe that either of you spent time going to strangers on message boards to prove you're right to spite each other.

 

[crashbb]

And this proves that considering ppl who have not actually gotten married husband/wife is what I meant by taking the sacredness from marriage because it turns it into nothing more than a piece of paper that is a contract. That is the problem I did not get married to have a contract I got married to be the wife of the person I love and want to be with. They may be common law or "spouses" those are correct terms but husband and wife is not. That is the problem if ppl start calling ppl who live together (an I discussed this with many much older than her who have been with their partner a lot longer and they agreed they are not husband and wife and said if someone said they were they would correct them) because then when ppl get married it is turning into basically a party and it isn't.

So, are you going to inform Statistics Canada that they are wrong? What about the Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail?

 

[wendyt_ca]

http://www.common-law-separation-canada.com/

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/rtrn/cmpltng/prsnl-nf/mrtl-eng.html (this is from the government site and even states common law partner is not your spouse)

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Honestly I think you are being ridiculous. Why do you even care what they call each other? You think your marriage is sacred. That is your belief. It doesn't have to be hers. From all that you posted I don't know why you two are even friends. Clearly you just want to be right and she makes comments all the time. I cannot for the life of me phathom having such a stupid argument like this with my bff. I wish you good luck because this just seems like a push pull relationship with you two.

 

[wendyt_ca]

I just looked at the differences in this article between canada and the United States version and I can see why there is so much confusion because they are so different. Although it does say you have to meet all the requirements to be recognized as husband and wife. But in the Canadian one says nothing about them being husband/wife just that they are common law partners. From what I read under the US one though I can see why some are looking at this that way.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Common_law-marriage

Also found this article which refers to husband and wife as married couples and common law as partners. Also states contrary to popular belief no matter how long they live together a common law relationship will never be seen as a marriage.

http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/retirement/gordonpowers/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7564491

 

[Camicar]

Well, I know plenty of gay couples who refer to their partners as 'husband' and 'wife' and they obviously (and sadly) don't have the legal 'right' to do so.

I doesn't bother me in the slightest, but then again I DO think they should have the legal right to do so. And then again again, I really don't care what people call each other or if they choose to marry legally or not because I don't think their choices take anything away from or add anything to me or my choices.

I think you are investing the words husband and wife with all sorts of moral connotations, in addition to legal pedantry.

Is this something you really want to argue about with your friend? What do you gain by it?

Either don't sweat the small stuff in life or surround yourself only with people who are exactly like you.

 

[JessicaR]

I cant figure out why you care so much about something that just doesnt concern you. Is there anything more important than being right?

 

[declansdad]

http://www.common-law-separation-canada.com/

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/rtrn/cmpltng/prsnl-nf/mrtl-eng.html (this is from the government site and even states common law partner is not your spouse)

Your first link adds credence to the fact that in some provinces common law couples have the same rights as married couples. In particular:

Note: In some provinces, common law partners can register as domestic partners and be entitled to the rights and benefits of a "spouse."


In Manitoba, since 2004, there is a new law that after living together for a certain period of time, the property rights of unmarried couples will be the same as the property rights of unmarried couples. Find out about the Manitoba regime

Your link for the CRA site simply explains a classification for spouse. It doesn't say they are not treated as a married couple of that you can't call them husband or wife.

In your opinion, they should not call each other husband or wife; there is nothing wrong with that. However; your friend, who has lived with this man for a long time and has children with him, has decided to refer to him as her husband. There is nothing wrong with that either.

 

[wendyt_ca]

I never said there is anything wrong with what they call each other. Although they have NEVER referred to each other this way they have always referred to the other as "my bg/gf.." It's not about them calling each other it. Before we were married DH used to refer to me as the wife all the time but would never say I am his wife. She is saying that actually are husband and wife which is what the question was not is it wrong for her to call him that cause that is completely different. I call myself mom to my cats but I am not actually their mother and I would never say I am. It's the same thing.

 

[MushyMushy]

In my state (PA) it used to be legal to be common law married and I knew quite a few couples who did this. I don't know why they did it the way they did, but it's not for me to argue. I would never dream in a million years of telling them that they aren't in a valid marriage or that their partner is any less a spouse than mine is simply because we had a ceremony and certificate.

Why would you even argue this?

 

[michellev]

I just looked at the differences in this article between canada and the United States version and I can see why there is so much confusion because they are so different. Although it does say you have to meet all the requirements to be recognized as husband and wife. But in the Canadian one says nothing about them being husband/wife just that they are common law partners. From what I read under the US one though I can see why some are looking at this that way.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Common_law-marriage

Also found this article which refers to husband and wife as married couples and common law as partners. Also states contrary to popular belief no matter how long they live together a common law relationship will never be seen as a marriage.

http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/retirement/gordonpowers/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7564491

I'm a Canadian and I don't believe that Canadians think about this situation any differently than Americans. I know MANY people who call themselves husband/wife and have never been "formally" married. Your "friend" has 2 children with this man! What's the big whoop if she refers to him as her husband? It's not like they just met last week. My DH and I lived together for 3 years before we married and we often referred to each other as husband/wife in that time.

I think you owe your friend an apology.

 

[Carly_Roach]

As I said this girl is competitive and it's not like she has never made rude comments to me and she has made many recently. I got married in June and as soon as she started planning her wedding she started attacking mine (without me even bringing mine up) for example she called my dress plain, my wedding simple, I had a signature frame which she said was overdone, she said my reception hall was bland, my honeymoon (disney world) would have been boring and she has never been to Disney World. She has made rude comments about my husband....so really I think me just correcting her that she is not yet married is pretty mild in comparison to things she has been saying in which I have been ignoring.

If I had a friend like that we wouldn't be friends for very long. Then again, if I had a friend who told me I couldn't buy a "husband" card for the man I'd had children with and had been living with for over 7 years, that relationship probably wouldn't last long, either.

 

[declansdad]

I never said there is anything wrong with what they call each other. Although they have NEVER referred to each other this way they have always referred to the other as "my bg/gf.." It's not about them calling each other it. Before we were married DH used to refer to me as the wife all the time but would never say I am his wife. She is saying that actually are husband and wife which is what the question was not is it wrong for her to call him that cause that is completely different. I call myself mom to my cats but I am not actually their mother and I would never say I am. It's the same thing.

The title of your poll is "Are they husband/wife titles?" not the bolded statement above.

In the eyes of the law, they are common law so they are able to use the titles husband and wife.

Again, as many people have asked, why do you care what she calls him? How does that diminish what you call your husband?

 

[themarquis]

"friend": Hey, Wendy! Look what I bought at the store -- Swiss cheese! Mmmm....

Wendy: Is it from Switzerland?

"friend": Ummm .... no....

Wendy: Well, it's not Swiss cheese, then. Look at my amazing cheese. See how it's from Switzerland? It's ACTUALLY Swiss cheese.

"friend": well, everyone calls the stuff I bought "Swiss cheese". It even says its "Swiss cheese" right here on the label.

Wendy: But it isn't REALLY Swiss cheese.

"friend": Says who?

Wendy: That's the definition of Swiss cheese, duh.

"friend": Well, that's not my definition of Swiss cheese.

Wendy: It's fine if you CALL it Swiss cheese, but it's not ACTUALLY Swiss cheese like mine is.

"friend": when everyone calls it Swiss cheese, and it's labeled Swiss cheese, then isn't it Swiss cheese?

Wendy: No.

"friend": ????

 

[TheZue]

"friend": Hey, Wendy! Look what I bought at the store -- Swiss cheese! Mmmm....

Wendy: Is it from Switzerland?

"friend": Ummm .... no....

Wendy: Well, it's not Swiss cheese, then. Look at my amazing cheese. See how it's from Switzerland? It's ACTUALLY Swiss cheese.

"friend": well, everyone calls the stuff I bought "Swiss cheese". It even says its "Swiss cheese" right here on the label.

Wendy: But it isn't REALLY Swiss cheese.

"friend": Says who?

Wendy: That's the definition of Swiss cheese, duh.

"friend": Well, that's not my definition of Swiss cheese.

Wendy: It's fine if you CALL it Swiss cheese, but it's not ACTUALLY Swiss cheese like mine is.

"friend": when everyone calls it Swiss cheese, and it's labeled Swiss cheese, then isn't it Swiss cheese?

Wendy: No.

"friend": ????

you forgot to add "well I put more value in being right than our friendship so I'm going to go post this on a random message board"

 

[tinksfury]

Wow I must say after reading this entire post I cannot believe how rude ppl would respond to a fellow DIS'er who is asking a question . I also cannot believe how confused people are getting over what OP is asking. Like another poster said why does everyone think she is telling her friend she can't buy a husband card I do not get that anywhere. Even one of the last posters said she told her friend she couldn't buy a husband card I really do not see anywhere that she told her friend that. I also see where she is continuously saying she is asking if they are not is there something wrong with them calling each other it.

I am from Canada as well and I used to work for Canada Revenue and I can say that no they would not be considered husband and wife. Just like if she tries to call any company in which he has an account they will not give a "common law" partner any information because they are not his wife. Whenever these two classes are being distinguished the term husband/wife is used to refer to married couples whereas common law status is used for those of a common law relationship. Yes if they want to call each other it sure that is up to them but it isn't the correct term or "title" because they would not be considered this in Canada. I know the terms are looked at differently in the United States but since they reside in Canada that would not apply.

If a friend of mine who is not married told me they were looking at a husband card I would also give the same response wondering why. I don't see why she is being attacked for this

 

[NMAmy]

I also cannot believe how confused people are getting over what OP is asking. Like another poster said why does everyone think she is telling her friend she can't buy a husband card I do not get that anywhere. Even one of the last posters said she told her friend she couldn't buy a husband card I really do not see anywhere that she told her friend that.

Because she stated it twice in her very first post:

She isn't married yet (she is engaged and getting married next year) so I said that it was a husband card though so she couldn't really get it.

and here she continues with the transcript of the conversation about the cards:

Me
Yeah we never did until we were married. Cause it's still not husband/wife and it's really special now that we can finally buy those since we are officially.

I also see where she is continuously saying she is asking if they are not is there something wrong with them calling each other it.

And most of us are replying that there isn't anything wrong with calling themselves husband and wife. I'm not sure how it works in Canada but I know in some states, common law partners have to get a divorce when they separate even though they never had a marriage ceremony. If you have to get divorced, I'd consider that a real marriage.

If a friend of mine who is not married told me they were looking at a husband card I would also give the same response wondering why. I don't see why she is being attacked for this

And I'd wonder why you would care what kind of a card a person buys.