Need more advice - DS 4 and behavior issues

dizzyami

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Aug 26, 2006
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Hi there again! I apologize for all the questions - I am just really trying to sort out DS, and since I really have no one "real" to ask, I am relying once again on all my DIS friends.

I just posted about my DS4 who is SEVERELY speech delayed, and has been attending special needs preschool this year, as well as all year last year.

Today, I am in tears and just don't know what to do. His behaviour is always atrocious, he will not stay buckled in the car (and will unbuckle DD), DD is always bruised and bloodied from his attacks (as well as I), if he doesn't get his way he throws things (chairs, glasses of water, tables - whatever he is close to), and just will not respond to anything. We are in a temporary rental condo right now (so we can't lock the door high up, like we did in our house), and if I turn around - he is down the stairs and off and running - and again, just will not listen to anything.

This is all very normal - but today - it is 100 times worse - DD is running terrified he is going to hurt her again - and I just am at a loss. I am trying to sort through is this is normal behavior - or is it indicative of something else that I need to check.

Again - any advice anyone has to offer would be greatly appreciated :grouphug:
 
First off :grouphug:

It sounds like you and your Daughter could use a break.

Look to your local AZ Mental Health Dept for some intervention.

In the mean time. Holes in wall made by screws and nails are very easily fixed. That is compared to what your DD is going through. Put a latch up high in your front door. Or replace the door knob with one that will only open with a key on each side. Safety 1st has door knob covers, but I don't have the hand strength to open them so I don't recommend them.

Secondly, remove all items from his room except his bed. That way it will be a safe place for him to throw as many fits as he cares. You might have to go as far as removing the door knob from his door, so that only you can open it.:scared1: Or using one of those Safety 1st covers on the inside.

I am a very patient person except when it comes to people putting their hands on someone.:headache: No matter what age. It has to become totally and without exceptions, the biggest NO NO.

As for the car. Is there anyway you can take him and leave your DD home? How about each time he leaves his car seat, that's 15 minutes earlier he goes to his room for the night.


The following is no means is to be considered what I think of your parenting skills. Just a look at what I have seen in my own family.

My Aunt had her boys late in life. They are very busy guys. She never had the energy it took to keep up with them. Now we fast forward to their early school years. They are both on 5 types of meds for ADHD and BiPolar and Depression. For as long as I can remember, they bite, kick people in the crotch and will walk up and punch someone in the face. True charmers.

When one gets in trouble, they don't get to go to MickeyD's for dinner. But while she is at dinner she feels guilt and will go and buy the one at home a Happy Meal Toy so he doesn't miss out.:confused3
 
First of all :grouphug: I don't have any firsthand experience with what you're going through, but rather some questions.

Is he aggressive at school?
If he is, what discipline do his teachers use?
Does it work?
Does he receive any type of behavioral therapy, with a psychologist?
Has he been evaluated for any type of meds that would help?
You said you're in a rental condo. Has there been a big life change, ie a move that's increasing his aggression?
Is there anything that soothes him?

Safety is my hot button with my kids. OUr older dd knows it, and hopefully the younger one, who's a daredevil will get it! The seat belt thing would drive me nuts. It sounds like he's really frustrated, and acting out.

You have my greatest empathy. I think it must be really hard to live with a kid with aggression issues.
 
First of all :grouphug: I don't have any firsthand experience with what you're going through, but rather some questions.

Is he aggressive at school?
If he is, what discipline do his teachers use?
Does it work?
Does he receive any type of behavioral therapy, with a psychologist?
Has he been evaluated for any type of meds that would help?
You said you're in a rental condo. Has there been a big life change, ie a move that's increasing his aggression?
Is there anything that soothes him?

Safety is my hot button with my kids. OUr older dd knows it, and hopefully the younger one, who's a daredevil will get it! The seat belt thing would drive me nuts. It sounds like he's really frustrated, and acting out.

You have my greatest empathy. I think it must be really hard to live with a kid with aggression issues.


I would like to know this too! We definately need more info.
 

First off :grouphug:

.
My Aunt had her boys late in life. They are very busy guys. She never had the energy it took to keep up with them. Now we fast forward to their early school years. They are both on 5 types of meds for ADHD and BiPolar and Depression. For as long as I can remember, they bite, kick people in the crotch and will walk up and punch someone in the face. True charmers.

When one gets in trouble, they don't get to go to MickeyD's for dinner. But while she is at dinner she feels guilt and will go and buy the one at home a Happy Meal Toy so he doesn't miss out.:confused3


Well perhaps it is poor parenting or there are other issues there. I do not believe that agression comes from being too busy. Many of Mothers work long hours. Or is she too busy doing nothing? That is a different story.


Just curious. How late in life was she when she had her boys? Not that it makes a difference.
 
I hate to open my mouth and insert foot again but I'm going to suggest that you look into augmentative communication for your son.

I can provide further websites and resources if you wish.
 
Well perhaps it is poor parenting or there are other issues there. I do not believe that agression comes from being too busy. Many of Mothers work long hours. Or is she too busy doing nothing? That is a different story.


Just curious. How late in life was she when she had her boys? Not that it makes a difference.

I commented on her age so that it wouldn't seem as if she was 16 and didn't have life skills. Not that her age was why her kids are a mess.

Her kids are not a mess at school. They know you can't put your hands on people there or on the bus. So there is someplace in their minds that they know it is wrong.

I have taken them for a week here and there when they have been on school break. I live 3 hours away. Not once do they lay a hand on anyone in my home. Each other? Sometimes, but rarely. But they know that they will end up sitting in my chair for 15 minutes.

But as soon as they get home, they are right back at it. Sometimes a little more so with their mouth just a running.

I too don't believe that agression comes from being busy. In this instance it comes from the mentality that, "well they are boys".

But I will admit. They are the most high energy kids I have ever seen.
 
First of all :grouphug: I don't have any firsthand experience with what you're going through, but rather some questions.

Is he aggressive at school?
If he is, what discipline do his teachers use?
Does it work?
Does he receive any type of behavioral therapy, with a psychologist?
Has he been evaluated for any type of meds that would help?
You said you're in a rental condo. Has there been a big life change, ie a move that's increasing his aggression?
Is there anything that soothes him?

Safety is my hot button with my kids. OUr older dd knows it, and hopefully the younger one, who's a daredevil will get it! The seat belt thing would drive me nuts. It sounds like he's really frustrated, and acting out.

You have my greatest empathy. I think it must be really hard to live with a kid with aggression issues.

Ok - sorry for the delay in getting back - I ended up working a lot yesterday (but DH got to spend one on one time with DS)
He no longer really acts up at school - he had a bit of problems in the first couple of weeks last year - but the teachers finally taught him to be nice, I do not know exactly what they did, and they are unfortunately not around to ask. I do know though that there had to be an adult with him the whole time in class to make sure he stayed in line.
No behavioral therapy - no one will say there is a problem - he is "just a boy", and "frustrated because he can't talk" (again though, I doubt this because I can understand (reallly) 100% of what he wants.
We are in a rental condo. We moved (2 months ago) to a small town in AZ. (about three hours away). The only real change that this has caused him is that he gets to see his daddy a whole lot more, spend a lot more time at the park. DH took a less stressful position at work, and I am a SAHM (with the exception of working a handful of shifts for DH so he can come home - (it is a restaurant) The behavior has always been an issue though...not THAT new with the new surroundings.
Nothing soothes him, and never really has. For the 1st three years bdays were horrible because there was honestly nothing that he really showed an interest in. He loves Stitch now, and for a while it would work that if I "punished" Stitch (put him in time out) - he would quickly behave better. This only worked for a VERY short time though. It is hard to take something away from a child that expresses very little excitement in anything.


A bit of an update too....it does seem that part of the "REALLY BAD" behavior did result from fatigue at school. Not that there is not a constant battle and bad behavior all the time - just a bit less and a bit easier to control.
 
Okay, I'm just a mom first off, so take this as you want. He's 4, so he's too old to be hitting his sister or you. I would "shut everything down" until I had a plan. Meaning, something is frustrating him to where he thinks its okay to hit people he loves.

Seriously, I would make sure he gets food, sleep, any needed therapy via school. That's it. No other activities. I'm not sure if the psychologist you mentioned was the school psychologist or an outside doctor you consulted. Either way I'd get a second opinion. I know of 2 kids who receive behavioral therapy via a psychologist their parents sought out on their own. Both kids have really improved. It's okay to be frustrated and kick a tire, or whatever. It's not okay to take it out on you or your daughter.

Again, I'm so sorry, and I hope I don't seem coldhearted. But I would just stop dead in my tracks to get him on the path to a solution. And the easiest way for me to do it, would be to remove everything but those things that are essential to living. Then I could try to sort through this. I hope you don't think I believe there is an easy solution. I'm not sure there is. But whenever I have a crisis, I just try to shut everything else out, so I can concentrate on it.
 
I am a preschool SLP and I have been brainstorming about your dilemma.

First, remember that even though your schedule change seems to have been a positive change for your family, your son seems like he doesn't understand or is feeling out of control. I would suggest that you use a picture schedule with him so he knows what is coming and in what order things will happen during his day. Take pictures of him completing his routine and then post them in order of what the day will bring.

He also seems to be having difficulty expressing his feelings. I would suggest some pictures of feelings- I have seen posters that show kids with different expressions at teaching supplies stores to teach feelings. Send me a PM if you need more details about the schedule or feelings pictures.

I would not suggest taking things away from him right now due to his language delay- I think it would only make him more frustrated. But, I would suggest reinforcing positive behavior. At school we always say "catch 'em being good!" Very often rewarding positive behavior with positive attention will increase good behavior. I would ignore as much negative as you can- give him no attention whatsoever. This is within reason, of course. If he is hurting himself or someone else, then you should not ignore, but if he is doing something out of frustration and nobody is in danger- ignore him. Then when he calms down, offer attention and praise for settling himself.

At school we utilize a "quiet zone" and I had one at home for my DD. We used a kids pop tent and put her favorite stuffed animals in it. When she was upset and could not calm down, we would tell her to go to the tent and settle down and come out when she feels better. This really worked for her, but I don't know if your DS is ready to understand the language that goes along with it. Our quiet zone at school consists of beanbag chairs and books. When kids have a hard time controlling themselves, we take them to the quiet zone to calm themselves. We do not use this as punishment or time out, but as a place to regroup and they are able to join the class as soon as they are ready. Most kids get this concept very quickly.

I don't remember if you have already had an OT eval for your son, but I think in the other post you were wanting a more complete diagnosis. (I apologize if that is not the case.) My experience is that many kids with significant speech delays also have sensory issues that can really impact behavior. I would suggest requesting a full evaluation so that you and the professionals at school will have a complete picture of your DS. Good luck to you and your family and if you have any specific questions, feel free to send mw a PM.
 
I don't remember if you have already had an OT eval for your son, but I think in the other post you were wanting a more complete diagnosis. (I apologize if that is not the case.) My experience is that many kids with significant speech delays also have sensory issues that can really impact behavior. I would suggest requesting a full evaluation so that you and the professionals at school will have a complete picture of your DS. Good luck to you and your family and if you have any specific questions, feel free to send mw a PM.

OT plays an important role. I remember when my son had some issues with toilet flushing in Kindergarten. He would flush the toilet 50 times a day to see if it was fast or slow at school. He also had issues remaining in his seat. Then there was the bee issue. He would scream anytime he saw anything flying around. It got to the point he would not go outside in the day time. To this day we still have the bee issue, but not as bad. Very stressful! The OT wrote social stories, had a wigglle seat, weighted vest and applied deep pressure when needed. Also about the rewards. Get a treasure box. Go to the dollar store and get some cheap things he might like. Anything he does positive let him pick out of the treasure box and praise him. Be consistant! Then when you see he is responding to the positive reinforcement give him a prize once a week after a week of positive behavior.
 
Okay, in re-reading my reply, it sounds like I'm advocating grounding him, or taking away stuff! I can't always say what I mean. A few weeks ago, I had one of those "crisis" moments. Our youngest was turning 2, but functions at about a 12 mth level, due to various delays, including speech.

It really bothered me that she seemed to be losing ground. I knew she needed more therapy, and more help from the rest of our family, but I couldn't figure out what she needed. So, I limited our outside activities (which is what I mean when I say "shut it down"), so we could concentrate on how to help her. I'm starting to realize some of her problems are sensory-related. One book that is honestly changing our lives, and the way we interact with her is, The Child with Special Needs, by Stanley Greenspan. It talks about sensory issues, and 6 key developmental milestones, and how you can't reach a new milestone without certain crucial steps. It has really made me stop and pay closer attention to dd's sensory issues, and what gives her comfort, vs what makes her meltdown.
 
I don't remember if you have already had an OT eval for your son, but I think in the other post you were wanting a more complete diagnosis. (I apologize if that is not the case.) My experience is that many kids with significant speech delays also have sensory issues that can really impact behavior. I would suggest requesting a full evaluation so that you and the professionals at school will have a complete picture of your DS. Good luck to you and your family and if you have any specific questions, feel free to send mw a PM.

It was only after we began addressing our daughter's sensory issues that her speech began to blossom! She is five, HFA, and ADHD. She is also a runner and a sensory seeker. At three she had no meaningful language at all. She now can verbally communicate almost everything she wants and needs, as well lots of amazing observations we never hoped she would be able to share. She occasionally struggles for the words, but her fits and frustrations are much more typical of a child her age now. She doesn't lash out in anger and she KNOWS that we don't tolerate violence at school or at home. OP, please consider having your son assessed for sensory integration problems! We use a vest at school, a weighted blanket at bedtime, fidget toys and other things like bean bag chairs, sleeping bags, etc. to give her the input she needs. I know some people don't agree with using a lot of "equipment" but it has worked for our child.
 
RUN, do not walk to:

w w w . peds .arizona .edu / sections /develop . asp

(take out all the spaces!!)

Call them, talk to someone and make an appointment ASAP. For all the good advice and helpful hints other people have, there is NOTHING that will help you more than getting you child to a professional behavioral pediatric psychiatrist. The sooner you do, the better! For your own sanity as well as the safety of your family.

There they can help you with not only speech therapy, but occupational therapies, behavior programs and yes, if needed medication. And also, they will give you support and put you in touch with others in your area that will be a great support system for you and your family.

Also, if any therapist or counselor tells you "HE'S JUST BEING A BOY" dont take that crap. A mother KNOWS her son. A real behavioral pediatric psychologist would NEVER dismiss a parent's concerns with such a remark, and for that matter any therapist, counselor or person working to evaluate kids SHOULD NEVER do it either.

Your son should be getting not only speech therapy, but occupational therapy, sensory integration therapy, and probably some other things that a trained behavioral ped.'s office can offer you. I'm not dismissing the things that your local school system is helping you with, but it's quite obvious it's not enough. And if they're not helping YOU cope or enabling YOU to help him learn then they're not giving him as much as they should be.

Good luck and God bless you and your family!!
 












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