Need input on car for 16 year old

[tnklvr]

Buy an old Toyota with lots of miles on it and do not spend the whole 5K. High school parking lots are like a bumper car park. We have 4 children and all four of them were in accidents while in high school Not one of the accidents was the fault of our children. One was a hit and run to our parked vehicle while it was in the school parking lot. OMG

You are so right about the high school parking lots. I refused to allow my son to drive to school because of that. I would pick him up and every day watched those kids drive like race car drivers and hit other cars both pulling out and trying to cut in the long line when it wasn't their turn, saw two buses get hit, and too many parked cars. I had to report several hit and runs over the years. I thought if that is the way kids drive when their parents are not around my son will not be one of them.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Tvguy, I think that that old adage is just wrong and I explained why and I'm an economist with another degree in finance and I just disagree. I explained why now if you have a ton of money or you happen have a mechanic in your household then it makes sense but if neither of those are true than the steady expense and predictability of expenditures is better for your average American household. Years ago when leases were first dreamed up I suppose this may have been true because were reliable and lasted far beyond their payment schedule. Now though reliability swings wildly even within a reliable car maker and car dealers do unreasonable things like make it impossible to buy one individual part without buying a giant expensive unit- my AC for example I cannot just replace the knob on my 05 jeep I have to take out the entire unit for thousands of dollars to deal with the fact it doesn't stop on medium-high. Hence, my disagreement with what I think is an outdated idea not in line with current practices & procedures

 

[seashoreCM]

The old adage is not just wrong.

Leasing does have its disadvantages, notably almost all l eased cars start out brand new so the payments are at least suggestive of payments for a new car. This brings the cost of driving over the lease period to be more on average than the cost of driving a well chosen used car over the same time period.

A common unforeseen although not unpredictable issue with leased cars is overrunning the mileage allotment. You need to predict your driving for the leased period up front in order to make an intelligent decision on whether to lease.

You would be purchasing peace of mind, not achieving lower cost for sure, by leasing a car versus buying a used car. Yes, a near worst case ownership situation could exceed the cost of leasing. Interestingly, the heartbreak of a mishap in the leased car might be less compared with a car, even a used car, that you bought. Does your lease really cover everything except perhaps loss due to misuse or abuse? Does the lease include enough insurance that you don't have to assign your youngster to another car in the household and covered by your own insurance? (You would have decided whether the total cost of the lease disclosed up front was itself a heartbreak and then chosen whether or not to bear it up front.)

When the prospective used car for purchase test drives essentially perfectly, your chances of needing a mechanic shortly after purchase are very much reduced. You need to decide whether to insist on buying something ready to use as opposed to "I and my teen think we can fix it quickly and economically."

 

[tvguy]

Tvguy, I think that that old adage is just wrong and I explained why and I'm an economist with another degree in finance and I just disagree. I explained why now if you have a ton of money or you happen have a mechanic in your household then it makes sense but if neither of those are true than the steady expense and predictability of expenditures is better for your average American household. Years ago when leases were first dreamed up I suppose this may have been true because were reliable and lasted far beyond their payment schedule. Now though reliability swings wildly even within a reliable car maker and car dealers do unreasonable things like make it impossible to buy one individual part without buying a giant expensive unit- my AC for example I cannot just replace the knob on my 05 jeep I have to take out the entire unit for thousands of dollars to deal with the fact it doesn't stop on medium-high. Hence, my disagreement with what I think is an outdated idea not in line with current practices & procedures

I respectfully disagree. Cars have never been more dependable than they are now. Which is one reason why the average American keeps a car 11.4 years.
I work with way too many young professionals who ended up with huge end of lease settlement bills for things that would not phase you if you owned the car. Things that were hidden in the lease. You replaced the tires, but with a brand different that what came with the car. Boom, you get billed for a set of new tires of the correct brand. That scratch you had fixed at the top flight body shop, boom, has to be redone, because it was not done at your dealers body shop. My favorite was the requirement that a piece of glass, broken by a burglar, the one in the rear of the back door, not the piece that opens, but the opera window for lack of a bottom term, fixed with non-factory glass for $125. Boom $500 to replace it with factory glass at the end of the lease. I'm not even sure how the dealer spotted some of these things in the end of lease inspection.
Do you want to put a new driver in a car, who is more likely to have incidents with a car that result in scratches, dents and soda spills, in a car where you HAVE to fix every little issue at the end of the lease?

 

[robinb]

OTOH, vehicles coming off a lease are a great option. We once sub-leased a car for the final year on the lease and then bought it for the end-lease purchase price. We still have that car.

FWIW, we are taking my MIL's 2006 Mazda 3 that she can no longer drive for my DD. My DD is a swimmer and I am tired of driving her to practice twice a day.

 

[LuvOrlando]

SeashoreCM & TVguy, although you guys seem intent on telling me I'm wrong I don't actually think you're wrong I think that there are instances you might be right, but there are also instances where you may be wrong and if you don't see that well there's no meeting of the minds .

I have a 2005 Jeep grand Cherokee I kept with the intent of giving it to my children I now have an outstanding recall on it that they have no eta on fixing P 41. In an ideal world of course the best choice would've been to hand them over this older vehicle and absorb whatever losses because it could take a beating and be fine- truth be told I don't care if they sideswipe trees or chunks of ice or curbs in it because the vehicle is a beast. But it's not an ideal world is it? I have a vehicle that's not safe due to the recall and anytime you pick up or used vehicle there's a possibility that something may be wrong with it the owner didn't disclose.

Am I saying that there's no such thing as a good used car? No, I actually also have a 2002 Honda which is probably the best car I've ever owned, it looks horrible but it is the most reliable vehicle of the 4 in the household. It's been drowned by Sandy covered in ice for days & chipped out a number of times boiled in the heat and frozen in 0° weather and that thing turns over in a blink of an eye and has never cost us anything more than the most mild maintenance. Now if I were to sell that thing to somebody he/she would be the luckiest driver in the world. *** not going to sell it though it's my zombie apocalypse car Lol... But again it's not without expense we just had to put a couple hundred dollars into it to maintain a couple of fuses and will have to deal with the timing belt but in our situation it's worth it just because it's a good vehicle. One household two new cars & two much older cars with one doing OK one not.

The reason why we have the civic is because the most important thing to me with young drivers is safety and older cars simply do not have backup cameras and the same airbag structure and safety requirements not to mention emission requirements & fuel economy. Just important because teenagers don't have a lot of money. Now I get that this might not happen to matter to everybody, so this is why I'm not saying there's any such thing as a clear-cut right or wrong, but to me I can't quite give you a dollar value for knowing that that car will probably turn on and be working perfectly for my kids for the entire time I have it. That said I don't hesitate to put my kids in the 02 Honda Accord either but it does not have those safety measures I just mentioned therefore I simply don't prefer it. I stand by saying that the adage is wrong because the adage implies only one right answer

 

[tvguy]

SeashoreCM & TVguy, although you guys seem intent on telling me I'm wrong I don't actually think you're wrong I think that there are instances you might be right, but there are also instances where you may be wrong and if you don't see that well there's no meeting of the minds .

I have a 2005 Jeep grand Cherokee I kept with the intent of giving it to my children I now have an outstanding recall on it that they have no eta on fixing P 41. In an ideal world of course the best choice would've been to hand them over this older vehicle and absorb whatever losses because it could take a beating and be fine- truth be told I don't care if they sideswipe trees or chunks of ice or curbs in it because the vehicle is a beast. But it's not an ideal world is it? I have a vehicle that's not safe due to the recall and anytime you pick up or used vehicle there's a possibility that something may be wrong with it the owner didn't disclose.

Am I saying that there's no such thing as a good used car? No, I actually also have a 2002 Honda which is probably the best car I've ever owned, it looks horrible but it is the most reliable vehicle of the 4 in the household. It's been drowned by Sandy covered in ice for days & chipped out a number of times boiled in the heat and frozen in 0° weather and that thing turns over in a blink of an eye and has never cost us anything more than the most mild maintenance. Now if I were to sell that thing to somebody he/she would be the luckiest driver in the world. *** not going to sell it though it's my zombie apocalypse car Lol... But again it's not without expense we just had to put a couple hundred dollars into it to maintain a couple of fuses and will have to deal with the timing belt but in our situation it's worth it just because it's a good vehicle. One household two new cars & two much older cars with one doing OK one not.

The reason why we have the civic is because the most important thing to me with young drivers is safety and older cars simply do not have backup cameras and the same airbag structure and safety requirements not to mention emission requirements & fuel economy. Just important because teenagers don't have a lot of money. Now I get that this might not happen to matter to everybody, so this is why I'm not saying there's any such thing as a clear-cut right or wrong, but to me I can't quite give you a dollar value for knowing that that car will probably turn on and be working perfectly for my kids for the entire time I have it. That said I don't hesitate to put my kids in the 02 Honda Accord either but it does not have those safety measures I just mentioned therefore I simply don't prefer it. I stand by saying that the adage is wrong because the adage implies only one right answer

There are certainly vehicles to avoid, new or used, and your Jeep, and any Chrysler product is on my mechanics vehicles to avoid list new or used. Subaru is on that list too. Full disclosure, I am cheap, and I look for the lowest cost per mile. And I work in an industry where we run fleets of cars that way. A whole new engine and transmission are cheaper than the sales tax and first month's depreciation on a new car.

 

[hsmamato2]

we let our ds drive our '96 subaru wagon for a couple of years....then he bought a used Honda civic last month b/c he wanted something of his own. I guess we really are the "odd parents out" that he told us we were...a car was something I saved for and bought on my own,as did my DH,so we expected ds to do the same,and thus choose his own car when it came time....but we got the "all of my friends parents just buy them a car" lecture.. way back when...

 

[seashoreCM]

I work with way too many young professionals who ended up with huge end of lease settlement bills ...

Worst of all is having to pay a fee because the overall market value of that make and model of car at the end of the lease was lower than the dealer expected. This is called an open ended lease. You want a closed end lease which means you don't pay for that.

These incidents about the opera window, the tires, etc. have to do with not reading the manual and the lease before signing and starting the lease, or the terms and conditions were inherently much more strict than what you really wanted. At the very least you should pass it up and go somewhere else to lease (or buy), the same way you would pass up an imperfectly running used car that the seller insisted just needed a tuneup.

 

[robinb]

we let our ds drive our '96 subaru wagon for a couple of years....then he bought a used Honda civic last month b/c he wanted something of his own. I guess we really are the "odd parents out" that he told us we were...a car was something I saved for and bought on my own,as did my DH,so we expected ds to do the same,and thus choose his own car when it came time....but we got the "all of my friends parents just buy them a car" lecture.. way back when...

I am certainly not giving my DD a car to own, but I am allowing her to use a car like your Subaru wagon. She is on a competitive swim team that meets 8 times a week. I can't wait until she can drive herself to swim team practice!

 

[hsmamato2]

I know the feeling.... those teens and their schedules!

 

[tvguy]

Worst of all is having to pay a fee because the overall market value of that make and model of car at the end of the lease was lower than the dealer expected. This is called an open ended lease. You want a closed end lease which means you don't pay for that.

These incidents about the opera window, the tires, etc. have to do with not reading the manual and the lease before signing and starting the lease, or the terms and conditions were inherently much more strict than what you really wanted. At the very least you should pass it up and go somewhere else to lease (or buy), the same way you would pass up an imperfectly running used car that the seller insisted just needed a tuneup.

I don't think they even have open ended leases around here anymore. But the end of lease terms and fees are pretty standard. But yes, you should TRY and negotiate out terms you don't like.

 

[buzz2400]

I'm not going to read all the posts so sorry if someone already said this but I would highly recommend buying a car that, if it is in an accident, you walk away from it instead of putting it through insurance. My son is going to be 24 years old and we pay a very high high rate because he was in two accidents. Of course if it is son's fault, you would have to go through insurance. Found out later on that my son always had people in his car (even when they weren't supposed to be) because he had his driver's license before everyone else. Also through my own investigation, found out he did text while driving. Be very very strict with any young driver. FYI in connecticut where I live, you have to pay a lot for every driver, i.e. we have two cars and two drivers, I don't have any accidents or tickets and i have to pay the same as my son. We then had three cars two drivers and we had to pay the same for each car ($1,000 each). So really what I am stressing is that you better have a very good long talk with son and tell him consequences of getting into accident.

 

[3boymthr]

Oldest DS (19) has a 2003 Buick LeSabre. It's a boat of a car but it gets 26 MPG and has room for all his friends to sit comfortably including in the back seat. He is going to be commuting to college this fall instead of living on campus and we were looking into helping him get a "new" car when my parents bought a new car and were offered only $500 in trade on their old so they decided to give it to DS instead. I can't speak to the reliability, etc of most of the cars of this age, but theirs has held up really well and he's happy with it. It cost him $360 to register, title and put down an insurance deposit and pay the gift transfer fee (instead of sales tax). We live in Mass. He still has to get it inspected that will cost another $30.

DS just got his car this month and I can tell you what our insurance agent told us. The cost is going to vary widely depending upon where you live (country vs suburb vs city), the experience of the driver, whether the driver is eligible for driver's education credits, and this is a big one - the type of car you buy - it can even vary based upon which type of car within a type of car - for example buying a "limited" vs a "SEL" of the same make and model can cause the insurance cost to vary by $100 or more just because of features that may have to be replaced such as power windows, sun roof, etc. One good way to get a feel for different makes and models and the costs you are going to pay for them while still shopping and without calling your agent constantly is to go online to a company like geico or progressive, and start getting online price quotes for different cars. We tried this and with the same coverage, a truck vs the car he got vs an SUV had costs that varied by several hundred dollars - all for the same coverage. Even without Collision coverage safety ratings definitely affect the cost of the insurance. DS' boat has a really good crash rating so his insurance is much less than if he'd bought a different less expensive but not as well rated car. He has $100,000/$300,000 limits on all his coverage except for Fire/Theft & Collision, which he decided to waive because after a $500 deductible and the cost of insurance ($700 for this rider) in one year he'd paid half the cost of a "new" car. His insurance is $1,500/yr with a 10% direct debit installment payment discount and includes comprehensive coverage with no deductible for replacement of broken windows (including if it cracks because he gets hit by a flying rock) and a $300 deductible for vandalism (this rider cost him $45 for the year). He has one accident and has been driving for 18 months. Definitely shop around when looking at coverage or at least once he's 18. We saved $500 by putting DS on his own policy (as opposed to leaving him on ours - even with the same limits and riders as those he got) and our insurer was $250 cheaper than any other carrier around partly because even though he has his own policy they were still able to get him discounts for multipolicy household and multiple cars, etc.

ETA - when shopping for cars - do yourself and him a HUGE favor, ask for a title history/spend the money for a carfax report, etc. I have a client who is a used car dealer and I get to see copies of all the titles for all the cars he buys and re-sells. He buys all his cars at auction from all over New England and New York and New Jersey. A very, very large percentage of his cars have "salvage" titles (probably 90%) - he spends a couple hundred dollars to "fix" them and sells them as if they never had a problem. These are cars that were under water (titles often state flooded - I'm guessing during Hurricane Sandy when they are from NY/NJ/CT) or totaled. I'm sure he's not the only one doing this.

 

[tvguy]

Oldest DS (19) has a 2003 Buick LeSabre. It's a boat of a car but it gets 26 MPG and has room for all his friends to sit comfortably including in the back seat.

ETA - when shopping for cars - do yourself and him a HUGE favor, ask for a title history/spend the money for a carfax report, etc. I have a client who is a used car dealer and I get to see copies of all the titles for all the cars he buys and re-sells. He buys all his cars at auction from all over New England and New York and New Jersey. A very, very large percentage of his cars have "salvage" titles (probably 90%) - he spends a couple hundred dollars to "fix" them and sells them as if they never had a problem. These are cars that were under water (titles often state flooded - I'm guessing during Hurricane Sandy when they are from NY/NJ/CT) or totaled. I'm sure he's not the only one doing this.

Le Sabre was on my insurance agents short list of least expense cars to insure a teen driver in.

Ah, salvage titles. If an body shop felt a car wasn't worth fixing, i'm not sure I'd want it. And CarFax reports, they do a very good job or checking officials sources, but the sad reality is, it is far too easy to make sure a salvage car's title never gets changed to salvage. An inspection by a good mechanic is the most important part of buying a used car.

 

[TnTWalter]

We just went through this. My main issue was safety. We are treating this like a family car for at least 2 of the 3 kids. We ended up spending a little over $7k [the high end of our budget of $5-7k] on a 2009 Jetta SE [on the safe car list]. We looked forever [6 months]. Glad it's over. My oldest is loving it. When she goes off to college, she can either pay us half to keep it or it goes to the next kid who will be driving then.

 

[usd2bmd]

When my daughter got her license and her first car, she paid 2500 for it. I spoke with our insurance agent and we added her car and her as a driver on our existing policy. It added approximately $40/month to our premium. My daughter is responsible for that. She bought a 2000 Mazda 626 with about 120,000 miles on it. She is now working full time and going to school part time while she decides what she wants to do and is saving for a new (to her) car.