NBC should be ashamed

[DawnCt1]

I found this a printed it, I can't get the link:


Matthews: "Well, let me ask you about this. If this were the other side and were were watching an enemy soldier, a rival-I mean they're not bad guys, especially, just people that disagree with us. They are, in fact, the insurgents fighting us in their country. If we saw one of them do what we saw our guy do to that guy, would we consider that worthy of a war crimes charge?"

Matthews has it wrong on several counts. We aren't fighting soldiers of a country, we are fighting terorists. They are the bad guys. They aren't necessarily from Iraq. They not only kill soldiers but innocent men and women.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by Mickey_loves_Minnie
And I didn't say that the same group of marines went into the mosque, I just said marines. Try reading my post before you get angry.

I was just making a clarification for everyone as it's a pretty important bit of information.

 

[robinb]

Originally posted by denisenh

These American soldiers get shot at day in and day out, shot at by others pretending to be asleep, shot at by people that they are trying to help, etc.
I think it is asking too much to submit any human to the conditions that these soldiers are in and then to also expect them to not ever "jump the gun". I have a feeling that there are very few people that can keep their head on straight after even one night of these ungodly situations.

The soldiers are damned if they do and dead if they don't. I don't advocate that the soldiers kill unarmed combatants willy nilly, but in this case the mistake was understandable. I saw the footage yesterday and the soldier was very upset and appeared to believe that the man was a threat. Unfortunately, in a war zone people on both sides are killed.

Back OT ... I applaud NBC for showing the video. The soldiers are in no less danger after the video than before and it brings home the horrors of war right into our living rooms.

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by Laurajean1014
Since when is war fair?

It has to be fair when the roles are reversed or we cry foul;
the same standards should be applied. George Bush's actions
and the things he has allowed/applauded are random at best.
He is a thug playing at war with people we all love and respect.
Wake up and smell the roses. These people did not ask for
this war, they want us out.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by shortbun
It has to be fair when the roles are reversed or we cry foul;
the same standards should be applied. George Bush's actions
and the things he has allowed/applauded are random at best.
He is a thug playing at war with people we all love and respect.
Wake up and smell the roses. These people did not ask for
this war, they want us out.

Then they should quit blowing up cars and killing people, have their elections, and we'll leave.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by Laurajean1014
Originall posted by beattyfamily

Can you please explain what you position is?

I thought I made it quite clear from my posts thus far. I don't think we should be judging this soldier. I think that's the job of his superiors. I think the footage shouldn't be played until at least after the investigation and maybe even until after the fighting is over.

I think it so easy to judge our soldiers over here in the comfort of our homes and we haven't got a clue what that soldiers life is like right now. I'm the one who first posted that in fact that soldier was wounded just the day before. That he thought the guy was 'faking dead' for a reason.

I think it was wrong for the Insurgents to use a Mosque for fighting and then our soldiers get critisized for shooting at or bombing a mosque because it's a sacred place.

I think it's horrible that MOST of these fighters are not even Iraqis and even worse if they are Iraqis because they are not only killing our soldiers but their own people as well...hundreds of Iraqi people, police and soldiers have been killed in bombs, shootings, and beheadings.

I feel so so sorry for our soldiers and what they have to put up with over there in a horrible, vicious war when only one side is trying to play by the rules and then also put up with everyone in American second guessing their every move.

That's my position.

 

[grlpwrd]

Originally posted by mrsltg
What is wrong with valuing life? I don't think that Chad is saying if the Marine was engaged in hostile fire and he returned fire and killed the man it would be wrong. What he is saying, what I am saying, and what so many others are saying is simple. You cannot kill someone who poses no threat to you. You cannot say, "This one is playing dead, " shoot him in the head four times and then say, "He's really dead now." We do have rules of engagement. I understand that not everyone is going to follow them and that does tip the playing field away from our favor. Still, we cannot behave this way.

Erin

With all due respect, but it's different being in the line of fire with people shooting at you, being a target at every minute, and possibly being blown up than living in suburbia.

It's also easy for us to scholarize and discuss the rules of engagement and what is right or wrong and to be armchair quarterbacks (excellent point BTW), but it's not that cut and dry.

Yes, I am anxious, too, to find out what happened after they investigate. We are, after all, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[mrsltg]

I feel so so sorry for our soldiers and what they have to put up with over there in a horrible, vicious war when only one side is trying to play by the rules and then also put up with everyone in American second guessing their every move

So do you advocate lining up the insurgents in the middle of the street and executing them?

but it's different being in the line of fire with people shooting at you, being a target at every minute, and possibly being blown up than living in suburbia.

We still cannot condone a massacre. EVER. If we could, we would simply load up planes and fly them into buildings or better, nuke the entire middle east. We don't because we are better than that. Yes, we expect a lot of our soldiers and we should. I don't care what uniform you wear - you are not above the law.

Erin

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by mrsltg
So do you advocate lining up the insurgents in the middle of the street and executing them?

No I don't and I don't see how you'd get that idea from anything I've said.

 

[Teejay32]

No one can say for sure how harmless a person is until he's certain to be dead and free of traps and weapons. These people were not prisoners - if they were it would be a different story. Right now people are jumping on a bandwagon to condemn a Marine based on a video that doesn't even show the killing (afaik), and trying to paint those who are shooting at them as having some noble purpose for doing so - great, but not everyone agrees.

"They're not the bad guys, especially..." No Chris they're just the homicidal nimrods funded by Ba'athists who are fighting to retain the power they had to wage war against everyone else...you know, back when Iraq was "stable." Arrrgh!

Useless to argue.

 

[beattyfamily]

It's amazing to me that this topic gets 8 pages but the fact that our soldiers found at least 4 hostages in Fallujah alive got one page.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by beattyfamily
No I don't and I don't see how you'd get that idea from anything I've said.

Because with liberals, Americans ARE the bad guys and the insurgents are poor, hapless, helpless unarmed victims defending their country.

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Because with liberals, Americans ARE the bad guys and the insurgents are poor, hapless, helpless unarmed victims defending their country.

Incorrect statement.

 

[Teejay32]

Dunno about that...I'm a liberal (at least 50%) and you don't see me defending insurgents.

 

[mrsltg]

It's amazing to me that this topic gets 8 pages but the fact that our soldiers found at least 4 hostages in Fallujah alive got one page.

Me too. It amazes me that people can defend what amounts to barbarism and rather than being upset by the actions of the soldier, they are upset by the actions of the television network that made it public.

Because with liberals, Americans ARE the bad guys and the insurgents are poor, hapless, helpless unarmed victims defending their country.

I'm far from liberal. What I am is a human being who can see wrong from right. This Marine is on tape killing a man and making a flippant comment about it. It doesn't take much to make that indefensible. I don't agree that the man that was killed was an angel and I do believe that he was there to harm Americans. However, he was neutralized and at that point he became a prisoner of war. He was entitled to medical care for his injuries and time in jail once he was fit. He was not entitled to be shot in the head at close range 4 times. And this is not a liberal/conservative issue - at least, it shouldn't be. I am more than happy to applaud our soldiers for the good work they do - this is not good work if things are as they appear.

Erin

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by mrsltg
. He was not entitled to be shot in the head at close range 4 times. And this is not a liberal/conservative issue - at least, it shouldn't be. I am more than happy to applaud our soldiers for the good work they do - this is not good work if things are as they appear.

Erin

It sounds to me like you are passing judgement on that soldier without knowing the facts. You are assuming that the action wasn't justified based on what was taking place prior to the incident. As far as four shots to the head? I agree with you. I think one would have done the job.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Because with liberals, Americans ARE the bad guys and the insurgents are poor, hapless, helpless unarmed victims defending their country.

I'm finding this statement to be more and more true as I read this board. Why? I just don't get it.

 

[robinb]

Originally posted by Teejay32
Right now people are jumping on a bandwagon to condemn a Marine based on a video that doesn't even show the killing (afaik), and trying to paint those who are shooting at them as having some noble purpose for doing so - great, but not everyone agrees.

The killing was indeed videotaped. NBC paused the video right before the Marine shot the man, but continued with the audio.

 

[Mickey_loves_Minnie]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Because with liberals, Americans ARE the bad guys and the insurgents are poor, hapless, helpless unarmed victims defending their country.

I hope you're not serious, because that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read!

 

[mrsltg]

It sounds to me like you are passing judgement on that soldier without knowing the facts. You are assuming that the action wasn't justified based on what was taking place prior to the incident

As are you. You seem to have decided that what he did was justified. Actions that took place prior to the incident would have some bearing, you are right. But the reason the tape is getting so much attention is because of what it shows which is a man, laying on the ground in a defenseless position being shot in the head. That's an execution. This is a problem.

Erin