Nasty School Letter

[dck12ga]

OK, here is my 2 cents... I think the NCLB law needs to be tweeked but I believe that they are trying to protect the children and not trying to screw us (parents). There are a lot of children who are "left behind" and someone needs to look after them! I also think that the teachers/principals need to look at it as a case by case thing! A child who is getting all A's and B's sure no problem.... If your child is not getting good grades, then maybe you as a parent should step up and not go on vacation during school!! And if you do then you better take responsibility for you and your son/daughter failing the grade!! Are you willing to do that??

 

[Lawshark]

With No Child Left Behind you also have to take into account the fact that local school boards are often practically in open revolt over the new requirements...which does leave the specific implementation requirements to the state...and are hell bent on sabotaging the law because their union fiefdom has been breached.

"All kids need to be brought up to speed? Heck...we MUST eliminate gifted and talented programs! That's the first to go! That's the ONLY decision!"

As for President Bush needing to "make the law more particular"...a couple of points.

First...it was intended to provide benchmarks but to leave implementation at the local level. They...theoretically...should know what is best for the children entrusted to them. They'll have their best interests at heart, of course, and won't let their personal feelings interfere with implementing new law.

Second...the law was passed by Congress. It was drafted in Congress. Bush signed it. Congress would have to change it.

BTW...do people realize that Teddy Kennedy was actually a co-sponsor of No Child Left Behind?

 

[Sammie]

I see attending school no different than having a job. You have a responsiblity to be there. Schools allow for ample time to have a vacation. At other times they have responsiblity to be in school.

If a parent simply can not take time off during the many days schools are out, then that is a different situation. However I sincerely believe in most cases that is not the situation. Parents take kids out for their wants, the want to attend when it is cooler, less crowded etc.

I sincerely have no idea how anyone could say some of the things posted in this thread about school staff and expect your child to grow up to respect any authority figure.

If your boss told you that you could not take off for vacation, and you told them to "frig" off I am sure you would be considered a valued employee.

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

We are going to Disney Nov. 10-17. We told my son's principal on enrollment day and he told my son to go to WDW and have a great time. He told me that the only thing that I needed to do was turn in a note explaining that we are going on vacation and that he would excuse it--he also told me that he thought that my son would remember a week at WDW with his family alot better than a week of 1st grade. His teacher also thought that it was a fun idea. She asked if he would mind keeping a little journal and if we could possibly let him have a camera to take pictures of his own to show his classmates upon his return. Our school also has strict policies- but the principal and teacher are willing to work with me. My son's teacher did tell me that part of the reason that they are being so nonchalant about him missing 7 days of school is that he is at the top of his class which is the gifted classes. Basically she told me that he is even more advanced than his peers in the gifted classes so the time a way will not harm his grades. She said that if he was in the general ed. classes they might not be as lenient. I do know that the school board is crazy-serious about absenteeism though because last year my son got pneumonia in Kindergarten and had a DR. note excusing him for like 10 days (he was VERY sick) and the school board automatically generated a note staing that one more absence and they would take legal action!! I called the teacher and principal and they were both VERY embarrassed and the principal said that he would handle the fiasco as he knew that my son was quite ill and did not know WHY I had recieved the rude letter.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

OK, here is my 2 cents... I think the NCLB law needs to be tweeked but I believe that they are trying to protect the children and not trying to screw us (parents). There are a lot of children who are "left behind" and someone needs to look after them! I also think that the teachers/principals need to look at it as a case by case thing! A child who is getting all A's and B's sure no problem.... If your child is not getting good grades, then maybe you as a parent should step up and not go on vacation during school!! And if you do then you better take responsibility for you and your son/daughter failing the grade!! Are you willing to do that??

This is sooo true!!!!

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

Also we are not able to take our vacation in the summer or on a school break due to two facors beyond our control. 1- My husband is 19th from the bottom on the seniority list at a large facory and everyone else takes those dates before he can even ask. 2- I run a home daycare and there is more of a need for me to be here at those times as the school age children are out of school also and their parents rely on me to be there for them. I do not know what we would do if my son was a poor student because in that scenario he would not have the option of missing school in our family. In our household academics come before fun and we would certainly emphasize it to the child that was doing poorly that their grades were the cause of no vacation. At this point only one of our 4 cuties is in scool so we haven't had to test that theory yet,though.

 

[MrGrumpy222]

"THREATENED FOR SPENDING TIME WITH HER CHILDREN"

That's a mischaracterization of what's going on. I worry when I read such hyperbole.

Again: The school board is elected. If you don't get involved, it cannot possibly reflect your values. If you try to get involved and are thwarted, then face it: the community doesn't share your values.

The system is limited, not broken. It's a shame it isn't perfect, but that's life.

If you don't have the financial backing and the support of the labor unions in the school district and teacher's union and fail to win a seat on the board then that is because the community doesn't share the same values as one running? These elections cost BIG money with mailers and phone calls not to mention all the time one has to take off from work to walk the neighborhoods and knock on doors. Here in Jersey, which isn't far off from MA. to control the school board means to control HUGE budgets and the ability to "Help" determine the award of huge building contracts and many others. I do agree that you should be involved and get to the School Board meetings and be a "Thorn in their side". The Squeakiest wheel gets the most grease. I just find it odd that Teachers (NOT ALL) take it to heart when you pull your child out of school to go on vacation. They have the entire summer off from their primary job that provides them with an OK salary, VERY good benefits and a pension while the rest of the work force doesn't get Weekends, Holidays, Snow Days and the summer off. I, for one, would like to see the school year extended into the summer, at least half days while it is cooler in the AM. I can't take vacation during the summer due to a seniority issue and I don't dare to think I can get the Holidays off so I go when I can go. I don't mean to focus in on any one particular occupation; Teachers are under paid and under appreciated. That being said, I have heard it called the best-paid "Part time job going". I don't know about that, I sure don't want to deal with 20 eight year olds day in and day out, I have a hard enough time with my one. Oh, by the way, NEVER has any of the teachers or administrators gave me a hard time about this issue, it is usually a few young teachers I am acquainted with in my personal life.

 

[bicker]

The community hasn't had time to rally against it, I would imagine.

If that is the case, then the situation will be remedied readily. However, I suspect that the community will act with more restraint than any individual member of it, and defer to education experts to a greater extent.

In reality, there have been truancy laws since before most of us were born. There has always been an association between poor attendance and poor grades (but not necessarily between good attendance and good grades). While I don't like it, since it cramps my family's style, so-to-speak, I believe these laws will not only stand, but be made more definitive as time goes on.

You are defending the indefensible.

Much less so than you.

 

[bicker]

Schools allow for ample time to have a vacation. At other times they have responsiblity to be in school.

The counter-argument to that is that most jobs allow folks to choose when they wish to vacation. The counter to that counter-argument is that many jobs do not provide such latitude. Some workplaces impose a specific two week vacation each year (for everyone, right around the holiday, incidently).

If a parent simply can not take time off during the many days schools are out, then that is a different situation. However I sincerely believe in most cases that is not the situation. Parents take kids out for their wants, the want to attend when it is cooler, less crowded etc.

No question. My desire to take our little ones with us in January is for our convenience, not necessity.

I sincerely have no idea how anyone could say some of the things posted in this thread about school staff and expect your child to grow up to respect any authority figure.

Sammie to the rescue... I was trying to put my finger on what was most causing me concern about this discussion... and indeed you're correct: it's the bald-faced disrespect.

It's disheartening.

 

[mrsltg]

Bicker is right. This does have a lot to do with lack of respect for authority. We part ways here. I am the ultimate authority when it comes to my kids. The buck starts and stops with me. No one has the right to tell me how to raise my kids or where they should be when. This is why my girls will be going to private school. I truly believe the entire situation is caused by funding issues. Who is the principal or any school official to determine when it's best for your child to spend time with family? My husband is a cop. Holidays are spent working - if not the day of, then the day before or the day after. This can put a real crimp in vacation plans. Summer is busy at my job and it's not easy for me to be off. What works best for my family is early December or January before Congress reconvenes. I am not worried about the issue because my kids will not be getting a public education and being that I'm the one signing the checks the administrators are a little more flexible not to mention non-traditional in their beliefs of what "education" actually means.

To the OP - take your kids and have a wonderful vacation.

Erin

 

[crisi]

You may be the ultimate authority when it comes to your kids. However, the school is the authority when it comes time to grade them or pass them. And you are not really the ultimate authority - anyone who has spent anytime working with foster care kids whose parents have had their parental rights pulled knows that the state can and will intervene in how you raise your kids. You must, in most states, feed them, clothe them, send them to school between the ages of six and sixteen (or homeschool them according to your state law), not abuse them, not allow them to drink alcohol, maintain a level of discipline that keeps them out of juvy, etc. Not doing these things will cause the state to intervene.

I have no issue with people who pull their kids and are willing to face consequences. But the school has no obligation to pass your kid or give them As because you pulled them for two weeks - even if they do A level work on their tests. Attendance is often one of the factors to grading - it isn't just about passing tests and knowing the material.

We all make choices regarding our children. Some of us miss school for vacations. Others spend a lot of time, money and energy on school, often at the cost of family time. Some put so much emphasis on sports that both family time and school have to give. Some put more emphasis on their moral and religious foundation - spending a lot of time on church or community activities - it isn't school they wouldn't dream of missing for Disney, but church. All this is fine, but you can't expect the world adapt to your choices - when you choose one thing you give up another. If you want to end up with a pro hockey player, or a kid who gets a scholarship to MIT - these sacrifices may be worthwhile.

 

[jodifla]

If that is the case, then the situation will be remedied readily. However, I suspect that the community will act with more restraint than any individual member of it, and defer to education experts to a greater extent.

In reality, there have been truancy laws since before most of us were born. There has always been an association between poor attendance and poor grades (but not necessarily between good attendance and good grades). While I don't like it, since it cramps my family's style, so-to-speak, I believe these laws will not only stand, but be made more definitive as time goes on.

Much less so than you.

Of course there have always been truancy laws. But they didn't kick in with threats after six days off at school. That's what people like me are responding to here.

If you don't want people to break the rules, keep the rules reasonable. It's the zealousness of some of these schools that is the problem. I'll be happy to have respect for authority, if it is worth respecting. Someone telling me they can haul me to court after six days is not going to get my respect, but my disdain and disbelief....and one heck of a fight.

Public schools should realize parents will only put up with so much.

My child is not in public school yet, and we have a choice of public school systems and private schools.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

With No Child Left Behind you also have to take into account the fact that local school boards are often practically in open revolt over the new requirements...which does leave the specific implementation requirements to the state...and are hell bent on sabotaging the law because their union fiefdom has been breached.

"All kids need to be brought up to speed? Heck...we MUST eliminate gifted and talented programs! That's the first to go! That's the ONLY decision!"

As for President Bush needing to "make the law more particular"...a couple of points.

First...it was intended to provide benchmarks but to leave implementation at the local level. They...theoretically...should know what is best for the children entrusted to them. They'll have their best interests at heart, of course, and won't let their personal feelings interfere with implementing new law.

Second...the law was passed by Congress. It was drafted in Congress. Bush signed it. Congress would have to change it.

BTW...do people realize that Teddy Kennedy was actually a co-sponsor of No Child Left Behind?

This is incoherent, what are you saying?

 

[bunny]

My children attend a private school and the principal told me she is required by law to go by the same rules as the public school district the school is in. Our school is very strict about missing days also. If you miss more than 13 days, you must go to court and you will be fined $100 a day. I have been debating about this issue also. If at all possible, I think you should take your children during their vacations. I pay alot for 2 children in private school (not a religious school) and therefore take their education very seriously. The teacher told me she would assign 2 to 3 hrs per day of work to take. That is alot of extra work for her and alot of vacation time needed to complete it. I also worry about taking time and then later my child getting sick. Lastly I want my child to learn to obey rules and I don't think it is a good example to "skip" school.

 

[jodifla]

My children attend a private school and the principal told me she is required by law to go by the same rules as the public school district the school is in. Our school is very strict about missing days also. If you miss more than 13 days, you must go to court and you will be fined $100 a day. I have been debating about this issue also. If at all possible, I think you should take your children during their vacations. I pay alot for 2 children in private school (not a religious school) and therefore take their education very seriously. The teacher told me she would assign 2 to 3 hrs per day of work to take. That is alot of extra work for her and alot of vacation time needed to complete it. I also worry about taking time and then later my child getting sick. Lastly I want my child to learn to obey rules and I don't think it is a good example to "skip" school.

Frankly, I find this information from the principal quite surprising, based not so much on my own experience, but rather that of the posters who frequent this board. You'll find posters here who have a lot of latitude at private schools. In fact, I know of a school in Florida that is almost all done on line, so the kids can focus on tennis (many are trying to be pros.)

The thing that is so bizarre is how differently the rules are applied from school district to school district in the same state. In one school district, missing a few days is no problem and in the next it's some sort of federal -- or state-- offense.

 

[Sammie]

Bicker is right. This does have a lot to do with lack of respect for authority. We part ways here. I am the ultimate authority when it comes to my kids. The buck starts and stops with me. No one has the right to tell me how to raise my kids or where they should be when. This is why my girls will be going to private school. I truly believe the entire situation is caused by funding issues. Who is the principal or any school official to determine when it's best for your child to spend time with family? My husband is a cop. Holidays are spent working - if not the day of, then the day before or the day after. This can put a real crimp in vacation plans. Summer is busy at my job and it's not easy for me to be off. What works best for my family is early December or January before Congress reconvenes. I am not worried about the issue because my kids will not be getting a public education and being that I'm the one signing the checks the administrators are a little more flexible not to mention non-traditional in their beliefs of what "education" actually means.

To the OP - take your kids and have a wonderful vacation.
Erin

You might want to check the attendance policy of the private school you are interested in before you take for granted they are going to be more liberal with this. Many private schools, especially prep schools have a much tougher attendance policy than even public schools.

I am sure all of the parents who believe that it is fine to miss school for convenience and vacations, will have no problem with your college age student when he/she misses a week of classes to go on a fun trip with friends. I am sure you would not expect them to plan on doing that during their regularly scheduled time off.

 

[jodifla]

You might want to check the attendance policy of the private school you are interested in before you take for granted they are going to be more liberal with this. Many private schools, especially prep schools have a much tougher attendance policy than even public schools.

I am sure all of the parents who believe that it is fine to miss school for convenience and vacations, will have no problem with your college age student when he/she misses a week of classes to go on a fun trip with friends. I am sure you would not expect them to plan on doing that during their regularly scheduled time off.

Well, that's a long way off, but if my DS had a great trip opportunity and could finagle the schoolwork, I'd say go for it!


I recall missing some school time in college to start my weekend early, or take trips, and guess what: I still graduated...with honors! The world did not end, I did not end up as some sort of wild lawbreaker (although, I can see how when DS starts school, I just might be turned into one with these stringent attendance policies) and I got a great job that I had for almost 20 years before we relocated.

 

[In a hurry]

I am sure all of the parents who believe that it is fine to miss school for convenience and vacations, will have no problem with your college age student when he/she misses a week of classes to go on a fun trip with friends. I am sure you would not expect them to plan on doing that during their regularly scheduled time off.

I blew off college classes to sleep in, let alone take an awesome vacation. I am sure my children will also. Just like I am the adult responsible for them now, they will be responsible for themselves, then.

If you are willing to deal with the consequences, make whatever choice works for you. I teach, but am currently on sabbatical. When a child will be absent, I do my best to help them out. There is a lot more learning to do, than can be taught in a classroom.

 

[mrsltg]

Well, that's a long way off, but if my DS had a great trip opportunity and could finagle the schoolwork, I'd say go for it!


I recall missing some school time in college to start my weekend early, or take trips, and guess what: I still graduated...with honors! The world did not end, I did not end up as some sort of wild lawbreaker (although, I can see how when DS starts school, I just might be turned into one with these stringent attendance policies) and I got a great job that I had for almost 20 years before we relocated.

Absolutely! When you spend a semester "studying" abroad do you think it's all education in the sense of desk/teacher/pen/notebook? Education abounds everywhere. Life is for living and school is not there to tell me when I can and can't be with my children.

As far as a public/private choice, most parents send their kids to private school because they don't feel the public school is up to snuff. These are parents who are going to have a very real vested interest in their child's education by virtue of the fact that they spent time finding the school and paying for it (NOT saying parents of public school children are not interested in their children). Any experience I have had with these schools is they work with you, not against.

Erin

edited to add, I probably missed 20-25 days in my entire k-12 career. Mom was a stickler for good attendance and there weren't family vacations. Fast forward to college when I overslept, slept off a hangover, went to visit my brother at Fort Bragg, decided to tan rather than go to class.... The days were just packed...

 

[Mister Incredible]

It's about setting precedent. You have to look at this not on an individual case, but as a school district. If they allow your child to take 7+ days off, any parent in any grade can say, "Well they let Jane Doe take 7+ days off why not my child?" and YES it will happen! It doesn't matter if its first grade, if they allow it with no penalty for your child, they won't have an argument against any other child. It is a school policy, plain and simple.

7 days off for a 1st grader is not a big deal, however it can't be treated differently. 7 days off for a 5th grader, middle school or high school student is a big deal. Not to mention, I hope they don't get sick over the winter.