Narrowing down college choices

[Pea-n-Me]

Interesting article I’ll share on “tuition reset” that is happening at some colleges.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...re-hacking-it-in-half/?p1=article_recirc_well

“The conversation nationally has really become, why is the price of college so high?” Stuebner said. “How many families are we not in conversation with because they see the sticker price and say, ‘Not for me’?”

The resistance to tuition increases is a reversal from 20 years ago, when some colleges found that raising prices goosed applications, known as the Chivas Regal effect, as families equated price with quality. Families also liked the prestige of receiving scholarships. Colleges got into the habit of raising prices every year and then using financial or merit aid to discount the price for students who could not afford full fare or for high achievers and athletes whom they wanted to recruit.

There is no definitive list of colleges that have pared back tuition. And it can be hard for even the most sophisticated consumer to distinguish between a marketing ploy and a real tuition reduction. Often, it is a combination.”

 

[CGB]

I used to teach a college/careers course at my jr/sr high school. Couple of websites to help your research:

1. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/ Since you said your son is still deciding (biology or environmental engineering), this website is a great resource to check out different jobs and careers. The search function is exceptional. Also, the projected growth rate and projected number of new jobs data is helpful for looking into the future. If you click through the links for the different listed jobs, you can find videos describing the careers.

2. collegedata.com This website is a great resource for comparing four-year universities. It lists costs, majors, extracurriculars, sports, etc. It also lists whether academic support services are available. While it does list financial aid information, it does not list individual merit scholarships for the universities. That information has to be found on the school's website.

 

[ctinct]

Lots of good advice in some of these posts. I’d just like to add one thing. Take along a notebook or have a setup on your phone to immediately record your impressions of the school. Also, have a set list of questions that you get answers to at each school. One of ours was a little out there but important-on average, how many people in a freshman dorm per each bathroom.

We visited around 30 schools. Not as daunting as it sounds, because we live in the northeast and could sometimes do four in a weekend because they were all relatively close, and we did a bunch during April break. The point is, after a while they all started to blend together and it was hard to remember which school had what.

Good luck to you and your family.

 

[LoveSpringsteen]

Lots of good advice in some of these posts. I’d just like to add one thing. Take along a notebook or have a setup on your phone to immediately record your impressions of the school. Also, have a set list of questions that you get answers to at each school. One of ours was a little out there but important-on average, how many people in a freshman dorm per each bathroom.

We visited around 30 schools. Not as daunting as it sounds, because we live in the northeast and could sometimes do four in a weekend because they were all relatively close, and we did a bunch during April break. The point is, after a while they all started to blend together and it was hard to remember which school had what.

Good luck to you and your family.

So funny, that this was exactly what I was getting ready to post . Everyone has offered excellent advice so far.

I also highly recommend bringing a notebook and taking notes after each visit. My son and I thought we would remember the particulars from the visits, but they do start to run together in your mind after awhile. Determine ahead of time what is important to you and ask those questions. If your tour guide doesn’t have the answer, follow up with someone before you leave if you can, or via email afterwards.

Some things to consider:

How long are students required to live on campus; what is the housing situation like (for example, at our daughter’s school, there is not enough housing for all students who wish to, to live on campus. Upper class men, which is sophomore and up - can only select apartment-style ($$$) options that are just off campus);

Try to have lunch in a dining hall;

What is campus like on the weekends/is it mainly a commuter campus/are there things to do?;

If it’s important for your child to have their car, when is the student allowed to bring their car, where is the parking and how much is the parking pass?;

If important to your child’s field of study, ask about their co-op program;

What support, extracurricular services and activities are available: i.e. tutoring, medical/clinic, gym, clubs/teams, etc.

 

[sam_gordon]

One small item I had asked on tours is what's the laundry situation? Free? Every dorm? How many machines? And don't forget about asking about visitors to the dorms. Can friends/SOs spend the night? Have to be out at a certain time, etc.

But, I think a big thing at the sophomore age is more getting things narrowed down on what kind of school they'd like... large/small, close to a city, lots of extracurriculars, etc.

 

[_19disnA]

I think narrowing down choices using the criteria others have mentioned to have a manageable list makes sense before deciding to randomly visit colleges. Cost should be a big factor since it doesn't make a lot of sense to have your heart set on a college your parents can't afford regardless of what scholarships might be available. College is about more then going to class and taking tests so if you don't fit in with the students who go there what fun will that be? You can only get a sense of what a college is like by visiting. That isn't something any college website can provide. It would be a HUGE mistake to see a college for the first time the day you show up to move into the dorm.

How far away from your home can also be an issue. How often might your son/daughter want to return home on weekends or various holidays? Flying can get expensive and if you choose a college on the other side of the country, driving home often won't be practical.

Going to a more expensvie college doesn't guarantee you get a better job. Regardless of the sales pitch you get from many colleges, where you go to college will matter less once you have a job. Perhaps in some industries the 'prestige' of where you went helps you get a job, but for the vast majority I doubt it matters. I work in a large company and couldn't name the colleges virtually anyone I work with attended. Unless they have a college coffee mug I wouldn't know and frankly, no one cares. How you perform on the job means far more then where your degree is from.

 

[design_mom]

How long are students required to live on campus; what is the housing situation like (for example, at our daughter’s school, there is not enough housing for all students who wish to, to live on campus. Upper class men, which is sophomore and up - can only select apartment-style ($$$) options that are just off campus);

Just wondering if this happens to be a college in Ohio. Finding that to be the case for my rising sophomore at her school... after being repeatedly told during tours that any student can live on campus if they want, and many do. ;-(

 

[VandVsmama]

I'd love some advice from those who are navigating this now or have recent experience. I have a high school sophomore who is in the marching band so he has limited time to visit colleges. Since he has some special needs and his high school's college advising program is terrible, I hired a private college counselor. We told him that we wanted some recommendations for schools to visit during Spring Break and he just sent us the list. It's overwhelming. There are 6 potential areas to visit and at least 4 schools at each. While we will definitely be consulting with our counselor about it, I'd love advice from those who have and/or going through it. We're not looking at cost during this go-round. Help!

Haven't read any of the other replies yet. Some thoughts/suggestions to consider:

• sophomore year is kind of early to go on college tours.
• Our high school (small public charter school) has 2 counselors, 1 of whom only handles the seniors, so basically her whole job is to help them apply to and get into college. She said in a parent/rising __th grade night a year ago that prior to working here, she used to work at an elite east coast boarding school basically doing the exact same thing. HER advice was that if you feel that you MUST take your 10th grader on college tours, pick ONE large college in your area and tour that from the perspective of "here's what a big school might feel like" and then pick ONE smaller school in your area and tour that to see "here's what a smaller school might feel like."
• You need to first figure out how much you can afford to pay per year. If you're looking at doing parent Plus loans, figure out how much you yourself are willing to sign up for in terms of loans.
• It's a waste of time and money right now to go tour 24 different schools.
• A lot can happen between 10th and 11th grade.
• Kid should focus right now on being a high schooler. Explore his/her interests, whatever they might be. Focus on academics. Get good grades.
• Fall of junior year - take the SAT. Also make sure to take PSAT because when you take it fall of junior year, that's the National Merit Scholarship qualifying test. Use Khan Academy's resources online for free test prep.
• Every college has what's called a Common Data Set (CDS) on their website. Go on any college website and do a search for "common data set." Look at the report from the most recent year. Especially the 25-75% range of GPA & test scores for admitted students. Then compare that to where your kid's grades are right now.
• Start listening to the "Your College Bound Kid" podcast. They have episodes twice a week. It's a very well balanced podcast and I've learned a lot from it. They also have a website with some really helpful/informative blog posts.

 

[VandVsmama]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not concerned about his PSAT/SAT scores. Before Duke TIP imploded during COVID he was part of the program and got great scores. We're aiming for at least a National Merit semifinalist. He tests well but his GPA is a roller coaster depending on his current state of mind. He's got a very high IQ(around 146 aggregate) but struggles with social skills, anxiety, and focus. He's seeing a private psychologist and private Autism support specialist plus he has an IEP. His district provides great IEP support services but doesn't have a very great reputation academically. His high school doesn't have enough regular counselors for the campus, much less college counselors. When he and I attended the district college fair so he could get extra credit I was extremely underwhelmed by the selection of colleges that showed up. The counselor I hired has a lot of experience working with kids like my son and used to work in college admissions. He's on advisory admissions boards for a few universities.

I'm also not concerned about cost. We've been very fortunate to be able to save aggressively through careful investment and living below our means. We will expect him to get a part-time job for spending money.

You should take a serious look at Univ of Arizona's SALT center (https://salt.arizona.edu/). SALT = strategic alternative learning techniques. Really excellent resources for disabled students & students who learn differently, students who are not neuro-typical.

U of A also has really excellent OOS (out of state) merit scholarships, including National Merit.

 

[brockash]

I'd love some advice from those who are navigating this now or have recent experience. I have a high school sophomore who is in the marching band so he has limited time to visit colleges. Since he has some special needs and his high school's college advising program is terrible, I hired a private college counselor. We told him that we wanted some recommendations for schools to visit during Spring Break and he just sent us the list. It's overwhelming. There are 6 potential areas to visit and at least 4 schools at each. While we will definitely be consulting with our counselor about it, I'd love advice from those who have and/or going through it. We're not looking at cost during this go-round. Help!

Honestly, the best thing to do is to get on the websites of the potential colleges and reach out to their admission departments to get specific info. and ask questions that really only they can answer.

What's important to you all? What are you all looking for in a college? Are you looking for a specific scholarship to those places? It seems that you have expectations that are a priority to you all which is great, but you really need to talk to those colleges to discuss them.

What makes the high school college advising program terrible? - The fact that they have one impresses me. I've never known a HS to have a college advising program.

I thinking knowing what is most important to you all (with the understanding that your teens thoughts/opinions/interests may change) is most important and then you can just go from there. - You may want to start with somr virtual tours (again set up through the college website and/or admissions department) to get a feel for things before narrowing it down to places you want to travel to.

Have you been on collegeboard.com - big futures? You can search colleges via criteria that's important to you... specific programs, size, geographic location etc.

Picking a college can certainly feel very overwhelming and I've found it's best to know that at the end of the day you do the best you can and if they hate it, they can always transfer. It's not a life sentence

 

[China Expat]

We visited schools with top rated computer science programs. We bundled west coast schools on one trip, and did a Mass/Pennsylvania/Illinois trip on another (we are in CA). The rest we visited via their websites!

 

[DisneyOma]

I have 3 college graduates, 2 current undergrads and 1 in grad school. You list should have safeties, matches and maybe some reaches. My kids who went OOS had to chase merit, so they had sat/act tutors and submitted a lot of applications. I think most find that college is more expensive and more competitive than they thought. The only dream school should be affordable and a very likely acceptance.

I told my daughters that if they didn't apply to their reach schools (you call them a dream school) then the answer is already no. If it is a very likely acceptance then it is not a "dream school", is it? Usually those reach schools are the ones with the bigger endowments - MIT gave my daughter so much grant money it was cheaper for her to go there than a state school.

 

[VandVsmama]

A 'dream school' can absolutely be one with a very likely acceptance. It all depends on your point of view.

 

[_19disnA]

There are also various forum sites that are specific to colleges. However, you will find a lot of dubious advice often flung out by h.s. students who have the answer to everything even if they have NO idea what they are talking about. You need to assess if the person offering the advice is credible or just enjoys talking like an expert. High school guidance counselors can be a source of general advice, but the amount of specific college knowledge they have can be all over the map. With tens of thousands of colleges in the USA, I doubt they can be an expert in all of them.

College admissions departments are mostly in the sales/marketing business. They can answer factual questions like 'do freshman have to live in the dorm?' if not already covered on their website, but not sure their other input makes that much of a difference in deciding where to go.

 

[mjkacmom]

I told my daughters that if they didn't apply to their reach schools (you call them a dream school) then the answer is already no. If it is a very likely acceptance then it is not a "dream school", is it? Usually those reach schools are the ones with the bigger endowments - MIT gave my daughter so much grant money it was cheaper for her to go there than a state school.

Some of them, yes, I think princeton now offers full tuition for families making under $100,000 (I don’t many of those families). However, it stinks if your dream school is Georgetown, and can’t afford the price tag, and the thought of going to your flagship doesn’t bring joy. A dream school is not necessarily a reach school, some students might have reaches that aren’t always dreams, and dreams that aren’t reaches. My nephew was recently rejected by his top pick, 35 act but not a perfect gpa. Price was never an issue.

 

[dosekies]

When I was looking at schools, my major wasn’t offered everywhere so I was able to narrow down to 7-8 schools total to visit. My dad was awesome and took me kind of all over to visit them - we went to NY, PA, MA, TN, FL, and a few in my home state of IL. For those initial visits we tried to ask as many questions as possible while on the tours and really took in the atmosphere and feel of the school. Those tours helped to narrow it down to 3 or 4 that I really liked and wanted to apply to, including what we considered a ‘safe school’ in terms of cost and acceptance. Once acceptance letters came in and we were able to look at scholarships offered and total costs, which led to pros and cons for each school and let to my ultimate decision!

 

[LoveSpringsteen]

Just wondering if this happens to be a college in Ohio. Finding that to be the case for my rising sophomore at her school... after being repeatedly told during tours that any student can live on campus if they want, and many do. ;-(

Yes! It’s UC. Our daughter lives off campus already, but it’s so disappointing they’ve chosen to handle the housing shortage that way.

 

[holden]

I haven't read everyone's response, but the special needs of your child stood out to me.

My DD20 also has special needs (both learning and emotional). We visited several colleges when she was a sophomore/junior. Then Covid hit.

She wound up taking a gap year, which turned out to be the best thing for her. She's a freshman now at a local college (around 45 minutes away). She lives there and is doing great.

We asked about disability services/support at each college we visited. That was our #1 priority.

The college she picked was the first one we visited and the one that she rejected outright after that visit. As time went on she realized that she needed to be close to home for support. She's far enough away that she feels like she's away but close enough that she can come home when she needs to.

Just wanted to mention proximity in case it wasn't on your radar.

 

[disykat]

FIRST, start talking about money. How is this going to be funded, what parental help are you providing, etc. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is letting their kids dream big without having these conversations. We started "local" first and looked at state schools, what they cost and then how they could look for opportunities further afield if they wanted to and find them within the financial parameters. (We're a big state so some of our "local" options are 6 hours away, so by local I'm not talking about only letting them look in our town!)

I would start with finding the most obvious state school choice and visiting that, then an obvious private option that is reachable by scholarship, etc., then a reach school etc. If you visit any schools, or even happen to be on vacation, visit nearby schools too. Neither of my kids ended up even wanting to pursue their reach school because they had already chosen. (Plus they were looking hard at other student's experiences and suddenly MIT etc. didn't look so good when last year's local class valedictorian/ well known genius got accepted but without enough scholarship backing to actually go there. Many of those schools only offer huge grants to low income, etc. that not everyone qualifies for.) If they have a dream school, look hard at how they offer scholarship help.

They both pursued and ended up with private school offers in other states that financially matched what they would spend in our state, but both ended up at in state schools. Neither pursued the big dream schools, even though both had good grades and test scores for our area. I don't know how it works now without some of the testing, etc. changing after COVID but for us, comparing the "average SAT score at acceptance" was really helpful. I kept telling them they don't want to go to a school where they were on the lower end of that and have to compete from a disadvantage.

 

[barkley]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not concerned about his PSAT/SAT scores. Before Duke TIP imploded during COVID he was part of the program and got great scores. We're aiming for at least a National Merit semifinalist. He tests well but his GPA is a roller coaster depending on his current state of mind. He's got a very high IQ(around 146 aggregate) but struggles with social skills, anxiety, and focus. He's seeing a private psychologist and private Autism support specialist plus he has an IEP. His district provides great IEP support services but doesn't have a very great reputation academically. His high school doesn't have enough regular counselors for the campus, much less college counselors. When he and I attended the district college fair so he could get extra credit I was extremely underwhelmed by the selection of colleges that showed up. The counselor I hired has a lot of experience working with kids like my son and used to work in college admissions. He's on advisory admissions boards for a few universities.

I'm also not concerned about cost. We've been very fortunate to be able to save aggressively through careful investment and living below our means. We will expect him to get a part-time job for spending money.

i've not read all the responses but as the parent of a young man on the spectrum we were involved with a parent's group for teen/young adult boys for several years and saw parents addressing the very issues you are. what was shared over the years was how the most successful college experiences tended to have taken into large consideration the supportive services an individual university offered and how willing an individual university was in permitting a parent to assist, as needed, their son within their on campus residency/academics. we know how much a GOOD well thought out iep makes a difference but while some accommodations can be made at the collegiate level there's no iep or 504 protections so figuring out your son's known and potential needs (and wants) are vital.

two of the most successful experiences i recall involved universities that helped coordinate a plan of supports that involved the student and parents both having open communication with a specific person on campus who was also allowed to communicate information to the student's out of state therapists. they arranged in state therapeutic supports but b/c both kids had long term and trusted (so important) relationships with their existing therapists they wanted to retain/maintain them. interestingly on one of the kids-the parents attributed the supports that were offered by a couple of individual universities to their highly regarded special education and therapy degree programs. it seemed that by virtue of educating students in these programs the staff of the university as a whole was much more aware of successful techniques and practices to help support their own students of potential need.

best wishes to you and your son!