Narrowing down college choices

[mjkacmom]

I've been working in academe for nearly 4 decades, and even at the beginning of that time, a 120 hour Bachelor's was a rarity. Now 130-136 is more common. DS needed 132 two years ago, and mine was 126 back in the Reagan administration. I did it in 3 calendar years for monetary reasons, so I took 6 each summer (including the one right after HS) and 18 most of the rest. At my state flagship, 6 hrs was FT in summer, 12 was FT during F/S, and anything over and above that was essentially free, so you bet I took the heaviest load I was allowed to.

FWIW, I also started my second year of college as a junior. (We had no dual-enrollment classes, but I used CLEP to skip 16 hours of Freshman survey courses, plus the 6 I took over that summer, brought me almost over the threshold into Sophomore territory by my first fall, but not quite. However, because it was my first year out of high school I had to live by the Freshman social rules in my dorm, which back then were much more restrictive. On paper, I skipped my sophomore year instead of my freshman year.)

The issue with the average 18 yo who comes to campus with a lot of credit under his or her belt is usually a social one; they skipped the softball Freshman surveys and are now into the more difficult meat of the major, but for most it is their first taste of total freedom from parental supervision. That goes to their heads, and they spend too much time on social pursuits &/or working for money to fuel their newfound freedom, and not time enough on classwork. Not only that, but many of the people they meet in class are 2-3 years older, and there's a pretty wide maturity gap between 18 and 20-21, so if they don't live with other first-year students, they can end up isolated because their older classmates already have established social circles where teens are not really welcome.

My kids who entered college with 30+ credits had no issues, they were in honors and their friends were the same age. Both joined sororities so girls of all ages, my 20 year old was a statistics TA last semester and had older girls from her sorority in her class. Both are very strong in math, which trips a lot of college students up, which helped. A big benefit was bring able to register for classes before other students, since not getting the classes needed is a factor in students not graduate time.

 

[sam_gordon]

I've been working in academe for nearly 4 decades, and even at the beginning of that time, a 120 hour Bachelor's was a rarity. Now 130-136 is more common. DS needed 132 two years ago, and mine was 126 back in the Reagan administration. I did it in 3 calendar years for monetary reasons, so I took 6 each summer (including the one right after HS) and 18 most of the rest. At my state flagship, 6 hrs was FT in summer, 12 was FT during F/S, and anything over and above that was essentially free, so you bet I took the heaviest load I was allowed to.

My college Freshman DS needs 124 credits (pretty sure that was the number... I remember thinking the extra 4 sounded strange). Pretty sure I was 120 back in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[disykat]

MIT gives grant scholarships based on financial need - sounds like the parents didn't want to pay anything for the education? We paid about $6000 a year for our daughter; the rest was covered by grants and a few scholarships from high school.

?? No, the student and his parents knew that it would be foolish to go way into debt at a school that didn't offer the financial package they needed so he chose a school he could afford. It is very common for families to miss the financial need cut off at any school (not trying to insult MIT) but still not be able to afford it. We gave our kids a specific amount we would give them annually (for us it was what a state school in our state cost) and then they could use that amount anywhere they could find an offer that fit within those parameters. This kid and his family clearly had a similar objective and the package he was offered didn't work. Just because someone gets accepted to a school doesn't mean the offer is doable.

It's generally pretty easy to find info on what criteria each school uses to offer financial aide abd see if you'll qualify for help. That's what I suggested above because if you don't meet the criteria for help and it doesn't fit your budget you're wasting your time visiting.

 

[Skippy918]

When I got my degree, it was 150+ credits (engineering) so we averaged 20 credits a semester. My friends who came in with college credits ended up getting their masters degrees at the same time. Our school allowed overloading. I had thought about adding a masters but I was already struggling with the current workload and didn’t want 25+ credits a semester.

 

[soccerdad72]

My college Freshman DS needs 124 credits (pretty sure that was the number... I remember thinking the extra 4 sounded strange). Pretty sure I was 120 back in the late 80s/early 90s.

My son's program (Mechanical Engineering) is 129 credits, for some reason. His is a 5 year program, but that's because a year of co-op work is required.

I seem to recall my major (Accounting) being 128 hours. Now, most Accounting programs are 150 hours if you want to sit for the CPA exam.

 

[bjscheel]

And their school College Counseling website still says Colleges will find a way for students they admit to pay for it. Granted, it may include both student and parent loans, not the outright grants and scholarships some would like. And that has been my experience with neighborhood kids who are in college now. That's why Colleges have financial aid departments.

But that doesn't mean that any college that admits you will work to make the cost "within your financial reach" as your first post said. If the bulk of the financial aid is loans, it can quickly become unaffordable! If things worked out for you personally, great, but it is not a thing that every school is made affordable for all accepted students.

I remember hearing a Discover Student Loan radio commercial where the dad was stressing about college costs and son says don't worry, we can just get Discover loans! Cue the immediate relief from dad like oh no problem then...I just cringed.

I've run many a Net Price Calculator on college websites looking for affordable schools. I hated how many subtracted a loan amount and then called the bottom line your net price. No, your net price is the bottom line, plus the loan (plus the interest!).

I know OP doesn't really have a money constraint (and this thread is turning into general college discussion), but it is so important for families to be careful about the costs and not just say "we'll make it work somehow". Kids are being told by adults to "just get loans it'll be fine everybody does it".

I held the kids to a hard budget line. One did community college and the other small public with merit. Even then they hustled with scholarships, jobs, graduating early. Now thriving without debt.

 

[kymom99]

But that doesn't mean that any college that admits you will work to make the cost "within your financial reach" as your first post said. If the bulk of the financial aid is loans, it can quickly become unaffordable! If things worked out for you personally, great, but it is not a thing that every school is made affordable for all accepted students.

I remember hearing a Discover Student Loan radio commercial where the dad was stressing about college costs and son says don't worry, we can just get Discover loans! Cue the immediate relief from dad like oh no problem then...I just cringed.

I've run many a Net Price Calculator on college websites looking for affordable schools. I hated how many subtracted a loan amount and then called the bottom line your net price. No, your net price is the bottom line, plus the loan (plus the interest!).

I know OP doesn't really have a money constraint (and this thread is turning into general college discussion), but it is so important for families to be careful about the costs and not just say "we'll make it work somehow". Kids are being told by adults to "just get loans it'll be fine everybody does it".

I held the kids to a hard budget line. One did community college and the other small public with merit. Even then they hustled with scholarships, jobs, graduating early. Now thriving without debt.

Those cost statements will also take into account work study. But they go on to say a job isn’t guaranteed. I don’t know how many people said my son should just be an RA. Well he applied but didn’t get a position. That could have been a huge financial relief, but we didn’t count on it.
Schools will promise you the moon to get you to attend. It’s all marketing. You have to be careful to read the fine print.

 

[Lumpy1106]

TL : DR the thread, but DD JUST picked her school so am pretty intimately aware of the process. DD applied to 14 schools - we visited ALL of them! Not saying you have to do that, but we were looking for a school with a competitive lacrosse program, that we could afford, that fit DD's vibe - and had DDs major. Being in CA, almost all the schools are club programs (rather than NCAA), which in some cases was a fit, in other cases not really. Some teams folded during COVID - you're going to find music programs that didn't survive too I am sure. We checked on WUE schools (program where you can go to out-of-state schools for in-state tuition) - same story, but a bigger range. LSS - that's why we had to visit them all - just scanning websites doesn't give you the full story.

Then (older) DS met a coach from a private school in Arkansas.

DD has no desire to go to AR, but she spelled out the program they have where you pay tuition based on a school in your state and they match the difference. WHAT?!? suddenly we could afford a private school in another state and had no idea that was possible. So I called a school in OR that DD WAS interested in. Turns out, yes, if you have good grades, a lot of the private schools will give SUBSTANTIAL academic scholarships that put THOSE schools in reach. They also have a lot of need based scholarships DD did not qualify for.

OK, but here's the thing; all of those private schools, for the most part, are part of the Common app. And the cost to apply is $0 - so why not apply? Even ordering transcripts was no cost to us.

In your case, Social media is your friend. Find the schools that are the best fit. Maybe there are band competitions, or special events that take place that DS wants to be a part of - IGNORE the cost for now - follow the ones that interest you on Instagram, check them out on YouTube, maybe go old school on Facebook. From there it's a rabbit hole. Those schools are involved with other schools - maybe those are more affordable, or are a better fit. Don't be afraid of smaller schools or private schools...for now. SOPH year is a great time to start and, sorry, but, my experience, you, and not so much your kid, and definitely not your school counselor, will be doing a lot of the leg work.

In the end it was a lot of work, but a lot of fun, and DD is happy with the choice. Your DS will be too. ENJOY the journey!

 

[tvguy]

But that doesn't mean that any college that admits you will work to make the cost "within your financial reach" as your first post said. If the bulk of the financial aid is loans, it can quickly become unaffordable! If things worked out for you personally, great, but it is not a thing that every school is made affordable for all accepted students.

I remember hearing a Discover Student Loan radio commercial where the dad was stressing about college costs and son says don't worry, we can just get Discover loans! Cue the immediate relief from dad like oh no problem then...I just cringed.

I've run many a Net Price Calculator on college websites looking for affordable schools. I hated how many subtracted a loan amount and then called the bottom line your net price. No, your net price is the bottom line, plus the loan (plus the interest!).

I know OP doesn't really have a money constraint (and this thread is turning into general college discussion), but it is so important for families to be careful about the costs and not just say "we'll make it work somehow". Kids are being told by adults to "just get loans it'll be fine everybody does it".

I held the kids to a hard budget line. One did community college and the other small public with merit. Even then they hustled with scholarships, jobs, graduating early. Now thriving without debt.

They do look at your finances, but they do also assume the borrower is going to make a reasonable effort to pay back any loans. And they can't force borrowers to make that reasonable effort.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

Penn State, Happy Valley, State College, Pennsylvania

 

[mjkacmom]

My son's program (Mechanical Engineering) is 129 credits, for some reason. His is a 5 year program, but that's because a year of co-op work is required.

I seem to recall my major (Accounting) being 128 hours. Now, most Accounting programs are 150 hours if you want to sit for the CPA exam.

Yes, my daughter ended up getting her masters in accounting added on and graduated in 4 1/2 years so she could get her cpa.

 

[mjkacmom]

TL : DR the thread, but DD JUST picked her school so am pretty intimately aware of the process. DD applied to 14 schools - we visited ALL of them! Not saying you have to do that, but we were looking for a school with a competitive lacrosse program, that we could afford, that fit DD's vibe - and had DDs major. Being in CA, almost all the schools are club programs (rather than NCAA), which in some cases was a fit, in other cases not really. Some teams folded during COVID - you're going to find music programs that didn't survive too I am sure. We checked on WUE schools (program where you can go to out-of-state schools for in-state tuition) - same story, but a bigger range. LSS - that's why we had to visit them all - just scanning websites doesn't give you the full story.

Then (older) DS met a coach from a private school in Arkansas.

DD has no desire to go to AR, but she spelled out the program they have where you pay tuition based on a school in your state and they match the difference. WHAT?!? suddenly we could afford a private school in another state and had no idea that was possible. So I called a school in OR that DD WAS interested in. Turns out, yes, if you have good grades, a lot of the private schools will give SUBSTANTIAL academic scholarships that put THOSE schools in reach. They also have a lot of need based scholarships DD did not qualify for.

OK, but here's the thing; all of those private schools, for the most part, are part of the Common app. And the cost to apply is $0 - so why not apply? Even ordering transcripts was no cost to us.

In your case, Social media is your friend. Find the schools that are the best fit. Maybe there are band competitions, or special events that take place that DS wants to be a part of - IGNORE the cost for now - follow the ones that interest you on Instagram, check them out on YouTube, maybe go old school on Facebook. From there it's a rabbit hole. Those schools are involved with other schools - maybe those are more affordable, or are a better fit. Don't be afraid of smaller schools or private schools...for now. SOPH year is a great time to start and, sorry, but, my experience, you, and not so much your kid, and definitely not your school counselor, will be doing a lot of the leg work.

In the end it was a lot of work, but a lot of fun, and DD is happy with the choice. Your DS will be too. ENJOY the journey!

My daughters are all pretty much type A, I basically gave them my credit card and have yet to see a college application, I had nothing to due with their lists. My oldest son ED’s and got in so one and done. My younger son guided by his sisters. I have no idea how to send scores or transcripts, my husband fills out fafsa.

 

[DisneyOma]

Why? For most degrees, the college you attend really doesn't make a difference, especially after you get your first job. Employers simply want to know if you can do the work.

That assumes they are going straight from a bachelor's to work - and it assumes the college has the networking available to get a foot in the door for employment. The more prestige the college has, the more difficult the admissions are. The more prestige a college has, the more an employer wants an employee from that college (because they met a higher standard than the college down the street with a 50% acceptance rate). All I know is that the different departments fought over my daughter when she applied to graduate school after MIT. She got to pick where she went, and she got paid to get her doctorate. Then she got to dictate what she did for a job (didn't want to teach or write grants - just straight research) and she's making more than twice as much money as her parents combined

 

[disykat]

I know that OP really isn't talking about money, but I think it ends up being important to the general discussion in any college choice thread.

I 100% agree that the dangers of the majority of the financial aide being loans being REALLY dangerous. With our kids, we had some prepaid credits and a plan for cash flowing a certain amount of their expenses (we paid off our mortgage right before oldest left for school and I increased my work hours.) Then here's the most controversial, but I think the most important part.... we told them we would withdraw our financial support if they took over x amount of loans. (We discussed the amounts with them, looked at what those loan payments would look like in a budget, etc. so it wasn't like we randomly chose numbers. Basically we told them car sized loans were reasonable, mortgage sized loans weren't.) While they could certainly make that choice, we just weren't willing to be part of decisions that we felt would handicap them. We gave them a really concrete number to work with as far as our support and the knowledge that if they went above it they would really pay through the nose. They both had plenty of options that fit within their given means. Both kids were able to work within the parameters that were set but the point is --- I think it's really important to make it clear that the world ISN'T their oyster in terms of costs and they have to make the numbers work. Both kids decided significant parental help with costs was worth following our parameters and both were even able to find debt free routes within those parameters. Even if they had chosen pricier schools, they would have been able to stay within what we all agreed was a reasonable amount of debt load for their educations.

In other words, we talked a lot about the money!

 

[Lumpy1106]

I know that OP really isn't talking about money, but I think it ends up being important to the general discussion in any college choice thread.

I 100% agree that the dangers of the majority of the financial aide being loans being REALLY dangerous. With our kids, we had some prepaid credits and a plan for cash flowing a certain amount of their expenses (we paid off our mortgage right before oldest left for school and I increased my work hours.) Then here's the most controversial, but I think the most important part.... we told them we would withdraw our financial support if they took over x amount of loans. (We discussed the amounts with them, looked at what those loan payments would look like in a budget, etc. so it wasn't like we randomly chose numbers. Basically we told them car sized loans were reasonable, mortgage sized loans weren't.) While they could certainly make that choice, we just weren't willing to be part of decisions that we felt would handicap them. We gave them a really concrete number to work with as far as our support and the knowledge that if they went above it they would really pay through the nose. They both had plenty of options that fit within their given means. Both kids were able to work within the parameters that were set but the point is --- I think it's really important to make it clear that the world ISN'T their oyster in terms of costs and they have to make the numbers work. Both kids decided significant parental help with costs was worth following our parameters and both were even able to find debt free routes within those parameters. Even if they had chosen pricier schools, they would have been able to stay within what we all agreed was a reasonable amount of debt load for their educations.

In other words, we talked a lot about the money!

Definitely beware the unsubsidized loans. You get money and don't make a payment before graduation? What could go wrong? Oh yeah, that money happily accrues interest the entire time. Whoops.

 

[sam_gordon]

The more prestige a college has, the more an employer wants an employee from that college (because they met a higher standard than the college down the street with a 50% acceptance rate).

Depends on the career AND what the person did in college. Pretty sure most businesses would rather have the person from the "less prestigious" college that had multiple internships, leadership positions, etc than someone that was just accepted and got a degree from one that's hard to get in to.

 

[tvguy]

That assumes they are going straight from a bachelor's to work - and it assumes the college has the networking available to get a foot in the door for employment. The more prestige the college has, the more difficult the admissions are. The more prestige a college has, the more an employer wants an employee from that college (because they met a higher standard than the college down the street with a 50% acceptance rate). All I know is that the different departments fought over my daughter when she applied to graduate school after MIT. She got to pick where she went, and she got paid to get her doctorate. Then she got to dictate what she did for a job (didn't want to teach or write grants - just straight research) and she's making more than twice as much money as her parents combined

One of the lessons I learned in my career is, who the individual is far more important than where they went to University. I have worked with some graduates of a prestige Universities that had no common sense, you wondered how they found their way to work each day. And they attempted to do their jobs in the way they were taught in University, which often is not how things are done in the real world.
My supervisor when I retired never attended even Junior College. She only had a High School diploma and got promoted over others with Bachelors and Masters degrees based on her ability to do the job.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

That assumes they are going straight from a bachelor's to work - and it assumes the college has the networking available to get a foot in the door for employment. The more prestige the college has, the more difficult the admissions are. The more prestige a college has, the more an employer wants an employee from that college (because they met a higher standard than the college down the street with a 50% acceptance rate). All I know is that the different departments fought over my daughter when she applied to graduate school after MIT. She got to pick where she went, and she got paid to get her doctorate. Then she got to dictate what she did for a job (didn't want to teach or write grants - just straight research) and she's making more than twice as much money as her parents combined

I’m sorry but this sounds a bit elitist. I agree with others, some people may value that, of course, but there are other employers that value the kid who clawed his or her way up, too. I have a friend who is a lawyer at a very prestigious firm who made a name for himself by being that latter person. The partners loved it, and even loved the little crappy car he drove (and were known to ride along in it). It just depends. One of my sibs (an Ivy Leaguer) and I have this discussion a lot because we were opposites that way. It all just depends. Thankfully there are plenty of different styles around for everyone.

we told them car sized loans were reasonable, mortgage sized loans weren't

I like that.

 

[mjkacmom]

That assumes they are going straight from a bachelor's to work - and it assumes the college has the networking available to get a foot in the door for employment. The more prestige the college has, the more difficult the admissions are. The more prestige a college has, the more an employer wants an employee from that college (because they met a higher standard than the college down the street with a 50% acceptance rate). All I know is that the different departments fought over my daughter when she applied to graduate school after MIT. She got to pick where she went, and she got paid to get her doctorate. Then she got to dictate what she did for a job (didn't want to teach or write grants - just straight research) and she's making more than twice as much money as her parents combined

You have to remember that a lot of folks fall into the college tuition donut hole, can’t afford full pay, but make too much money to receive financial aid. Top schools don’t offer merit, so many high stats kids need to go to less selective schools for financial reasons. Many doctorate programs are free for students.

 

[TippyThomas]

Not sure if this will be helpful but it opened my eyes a bit to how different perception and reality can be. I joined a subreddit for the university in my area. It is a very large, popular and well sought out school for many different reasons. Seeing what the students deal with, feel like, praise and complain about the university as a whole has been pretty enlightening. I've learned about things I hadn't even considered. Have them join a subreddit for any university they are considering and just lurk for a while. It might bring up good things or bad things that they hadn't considered about life once at the university.