My son wants to join the Air Force

[NHdisneylover]

OP, do you have anything at all nice to say about your son?


I am not from a military background, so I should probably keep my opinions to myself, but I am kind of flabbergasted about the many repeated posts about how your son is basically a worthless brat and therefore should join the military to be straightened out.
I realize that many people HAVE found discipline and direction that they were lacking in the armed forces, but I think it is terrible to think of the air force (or army, or coast guard, or navy or marines) as a place to dump a poorly behaved person and expect them to "fix" the person for you.
I know so many people who signed up because they love the US, want to serve, and felt they had something to offer and would enjoy what the military could also offer them in return. I think it is somewhat disrespectful to them to view their chosen career as sort of reform school for grown ups.

 

[bcla]

Each branch has their own way of configuring scores. The AF has the highest requirements. Their minimum score is an overall of 50. Then they have sub-areas related to different career fields that have minimum score requirements for different jobs. They'll say things like security police needing a min. of xx in general, vehicle maintenance needing min. scores of xx in mechanical and xx in electrical. Every career field has different requirements. As someone else said, the AF can afford to be very picky right now. One of my sons has his heart set on the AF, has planned on joining since he was tiny. Unfortunately, he's LD in math. He wants to be a mechanic and has some of the highest scores the local recruiting office has recorded in mechanical and electrical. His math score brings his overall score down to a 49. He missed passing by 1 point, which was enough to make the recruiter lose interest in him.

When I took it I remember about four recruiters from the different services standing around while the test was being administered. Many/most of the test takers I didn't know, as they weren't in the same college-prep classes. A few of us were likely college-bound and just took it for the heck of it. I remember one guy expressed annoyance at all the recruiters calling him and wished that he hadn't taken it. We didn't particularly study for it and still did well.

The sense that I got at the time was that the kids enlisting probably needed it more than the service needed them. Most weren't great students. However, these days I've heard of a lot of college graduates enlisting. I guess it can often mean more actual military operations rather than being a "paper pusher" graduate of OTS. Of course the need for officers coming from OTS is lower with lower demand and where the numbers from ROTC and Academy graduates are static.

 

[manning]

DH is active duty AF and I served for 6 years as well. It was a great experience for me as it forced me to grown up and take responsibility for myself and my actions. When I got out, I was able to use my GI Bill money to pay for x-ray school and 95% of ultrasound school. This was HUGE for us as I put in $1200 and used about $40,000.

I was in military intelligence and it sounds exciting to a lot of people, but it wasn't a good fit for me as I prefer to interact with people a lot and my job was more of a solitary one.

The people I met and experiences I had made the AF one of the best decisions I have made in my life. It is definitely not for everyone though.

I would suggest your son make sure he has a guaranteed job before signing up. Those that didn't were just farmed out to whatever positions were needed.

X-ray school. Hmm bet your husband wasn't too happy with that.

Now you can see through him.

 

[Unas]

SNIP

Also the military as a whole is downsizing in a big way and are being a lot more selective for jobs. When it is time to go to the recruiter, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, I cannot stress that enough. Any promises or ideas or job offers IN WRITING. Some recruiters, NOT ALL, can be shady GET IN WRITING. I can't say that enough.
.

You have that right! Let me add two things.

If he does enlist, get every promise that changes the initial contract about training, or job, or assignment in writing too.
And, sign nothing until he has read it and understands it fully.

 

[PeterPanic]

Hi there. My, just graduated, 17 year old son would like to sign up for the Air Force. I know nothing about the armed services and would like some ideas on what to expect for him and for us.

I think this is a great thing for him. I think he could really benefit from the military and their rules etc. He is a bit of a brat lol! I am hoping it would make him into someone he could be proud of later in life instead of living the life he is headed towards which isn't good.

Any info is appreciated!

Thanks

I think it is great, if it's his idea. If that is what he wants to do it is a noble thing. After the initial crap of basic training and tech school, it is very much like an everyday job. The exception of course is that you can't just quit and if you have the urge to be insubordinate, you might find himself in the brig.

I'm curious as to why specifically the Air Force.

I certainly understand those who are college-bound and wish to become pilots. However, those positions are few and far between. Also, the Air Force hasn't had enlisted pilots since the 50s.

It has already been mentioned, but, only a very small percentage of Air Force personnel are pilots. They must go to officer training and have a degree to qualify. However, almost every job that you find in civilian life is duplicated in the military. If he can direct himself to the area that he is most interested in, he will have a good chance of getting the experience needed to make it as a civilian or at least get his foot in the door.

You have that right! Let me add two things.

If he does enlist, get every promise that changes the initial contract about training, or job, or assignment in writing too.
And, sign nothing until he has read it and understands it fully.

That's always good advice, but, I feel that it is important to remember that this is the United States Military. If they have a place for you or you fit into the field that you desire, then the chances are that they will put you there. There is usually more then one option listed (used to be three, don't know about now). Again, being the military ultimately if they need someone someplace else they will surely put him there, with or without it being in writing. Realistically, are you going to have a chance of winning a lawsuit against the military because of a job placement.

During basic training they do a lot of testing for aptitude. Sometimes people have abilities that they didn't even know they had and that may be where they end up. It depends on the need. Usually the only thing that gets someone out of the contract that they make going in for a certain period of service time, is as binding on the enlistee as the military. Acting out can get someone section eighted out but, that goes with you for life. Mostly, it's get over it and do what you are told and there are many benefits during and after service.

The Air Force really doesn't train people for really active combat unless the field is Military Police, but that doesn't mean that you don't get involved, just not as intensely as the Army or Marines. The wall in Washington, DC has the names of many Air Force personnel. Most were pilots or worked as crew members on the planes, but, field people died as well, just not in big numbers.

There is a lot to think about when joining any branch of the service, but, I found it to be a very useful tool through my life. I was active for 4 years. One of which was in South Vietnam. A dreadful experience, but, it is important to understand that I am a much more stable person when my enlistment was up then I was as a teenager. I can now easily sort out drama and know what things are worthy of my concern and what things are just expressions of discontent from people that have never seen real adversity. I recommend the service to anyone as they reach the age of adulthood. There is no better place to get a really intensive idea what life involves as well as what is important and what isn't.

 

[bcla]

The Air Force really doesn't train people for really active combat unless the field is Military Police, but that doesn't mean that you don't get involved, just not as intensely as the Army or Marines. The wall in Washington, DC has the names of many Air Force personnel. Most were pilots or worked as crew members on the planes, but, field people died as well, just not in big numbers.

I've heard that many with the front-line combat positions may find the hardest transition to civilian life. When you're basically trained to shoot at people who will shoot back, what comparable civilian job is there? I understand that's why a lot of retired military returned to Iraq in jobs with contractors. Although I've heard there's some resentment about it.

The Air Force does have some front line positions - the Tactical Air Control Party specialist position is one - which provides tactical support for ground forces to coordinate with air support. However, they seem to function by being embedded with Army or Marine ground forces to provide information for air attacks.

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/tactical-air-control-party-specialist-tacp-males-only/

I seem to recall there's also a forward air controller position or something to that effect.

 

[mousefanmichelle]

I appreciate all the helpful information shared here. I will be sure to do more research and have my son do the same. We have some friends that were in the AF long ago and they said they would talk with him.

For the record - while my son is those things I posted earlier in the thread he is also smart, funny, big hearted, well spoken, well read, and many other things I don't really need to defend. I am not expecting the military to "fix" my son nor do I feel they are responsible to do so. I am hoping that he can gain as much from it as they offer and that he takes the opportunites they offer him and grows and matures into a person he can be proud of.

 

[Unas]

SNIP

That's always good advice, but, I feel that it is important to remember that this is the United States Military. If they have a place for you or you fit into the field that you desire, then the chances are that they will put you there. There is usually more then one option listed (used to be three, don't know about now). Again, being the military ultimately if they need someone someplace else they will surely put him there, with or without it being in writing. Realistically, are you going to have a chance of winning a lawsuit against the military because of a job placement.

During basic training they do a lot of testing for aptitude. Sometimes people have abilities that they didn't even know they had and that may be where they end up. It depends on the need. Usually the only thing that gets someone out of the contract that they make going in for a certain period of service time, is as binding on the enlistee as the military. Acting out can get someone section eighted out but, that goes with you for life. Mostly, it's get over it and do what you are told and there are many benefits during and after service.

The Air Force really doesn't train people for really active combat unless the field is Military Police, but that doesn't mean that you don't get involved, just not as intensely as the Army or Marines. The wall in Washington, DC has the names of many Air Force personnel. Most were pilots or worked as crew members on the planes, but, field people died as well, just not in big numbers.

There is a lot to think about when joining any branch of the service, but, I found it to be a very useful tool through my life. I was active for 4 years. One of which was in South Vietnam. A dreadful experience, but, it is important to understand that I am a much more stable person when my enlistment was up then I was as a teenager. I can now easily sort out drama and know what things are worthy of my concern and what things are just expressions of discontent from people that have never seen real adversity. I recommend the service to anyone as they reach the age of adulthood. There is no better place to get a really intensive idea what life involves as well as what is important and what isn't.

Just to be clear . . . I was referring to "promises" being made to induce one to enlist, reenlist or otherwise commit. Recruiters and re-up NCOs have been known to make promises they can't keep. Get the promise in writing and read it to be sure it says what you expect. The military won't make a real promise that they can't keep, absent unexpected world events.

 

[low-key]

Air Force and Navy are better then Army and Marines (as far as cities, food, training, free time and staying alive)

 

[PeterPanic]

Just to be clear . . . I was referring to "promises" being made to induce one to enlist, reenlist or otherwise commit. Recruiters and re-up NCOs have been known to make promises they can't keep. Get the promise in writing and read it to be sure it says what you expect. The military won't make a real promise that they can't keep, absent unexpected world events.

That is what I am referring to as well. An NCO is a representative of the military and if they make a promise that they can't keep, then it is made and the military will not move heaven and earth to correct it. It's more of a this is what we have, take it or leave it.

I believe that they will do what they can to keep the promises, but, many factors can enter into that. Aptitude, for example. You go into a career field, but, you have to hold up your end. There is usually a school involved with that and if you show that you can comprehend the military way of doing things, then they will not have a reason to not place him in that field, but, it's not just automatic. The recruit has a lot of responsibility in that. If they cannot keep up, for lack of a better way to put it, then they might just place him in an area that they think will be the most useful to them.

There may be some new rules that didn't apply way back when I was in, but, no military can run efficiently with the tail wagging the dog. They have no real reason to deny or go against their promises if all the pieces fit together, but, there never is a guarantee. The option is that if they cannot find a place then he is released from active duty and you are back where you started. Read the fine print or make sure he does. I'm not sure why they would include the parents in the discussion unless he is underage. This isn't college.

If someone has all the current procedures available, please join in. I'm working from history here.

 

[PeterPanic]

I've heard that many with the front-line combat positions may find the hardest transition to civilian life. When you're basically trained to shoot at people who will shoot back, what comparable civilian job is there? I understand that's why a lot of retired military returned to Iraq in jobs with contractors. Although I've heard there's some resentment about it.

The Air Force does have some front line positions - the Tactical Air Control Party specialist position is one - which provides tactical support for ground forces to coordinate with air support. However, they seem to function by being embedded with Army or Marine ground forces to provide information for air attacks.

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/tactical-air-control-party-specialist-tacp-males-only/

I seem to recall there's also a forward air controller position or something to that effect.

Forward Air Controllers are Pilots. It is when a small plane is sent ahead of a mission to scout out the area and report back as to the degree of danger that is ahead, and yes a very dangerous position. Again, I don't believe that the Air Force has any real combat trained positions other then Air Police. I know in Vietnam we relied really heavily on the Army and Marines to provide the security for the bases. Yes, the Air Force Military Police were also given parameter duty, supplemented by the rest of us that had a grand total of one day combat training in California on the way over. To be honest, we would have been as useful as a milk pail under a bull in the event of a combat situation.

 

[Kitty 34]

Where in Oklahoma? I was stationed at Altus AFB in the early 80's. Not even sure it is still there, but it was the SW corner of Okalhoma (almost Texas).

Yes, that's where he is. He and his wife live on base. He likes it there, tho he does complain that the town Altus doesn't have much to do so they go to Lawton, often. He's been there two years.

 

[trip]

Forward Air Controllers are Pilots. It is when a small plane is sent ahead of a mission to scout out the area and report back as to the degree of danger that is ahead, and yes a very dangerous position. Again, I don't believe that the Air Force has any real combat trained positions other then Air Police. I know in Vietnam we relied really heavily on the Army and Marines to provide the security for the bases. Yes, the Air Force Military Police were also given parameter duty, supplemented by the rest of us that had a grand total of one day combat training in California on the way over. To be honest, we would have been as useful as a milk pail under a bull in the event of a combat situation.

Totally of topic, but whenever I hear of FACs, I think of the movie BAT 21 with Gene Hackman.

 

[bcla]

Totally of topic, but whenever I hear of FACs, I think of the movie BAT 21 with Gene Hackman.

I remember that.

Actually - I was confusing that with combat air controllers. They featured a character (Technical Sergeant Epps) in the Transformers series who was one.

 

[esk]

OP,

22 year AF vet here (still in, actually).

Thank you to everyone that went before me, but please realize the AF of the 80s, 90s and even 00s isn't the AF of today. We're downsizing left and right and it is pointless to get anything "in writing"...."needs of the AF" is always going to trump whatever the Airman wants.

So -- the recruiter can "promise" him mechanic or whatever job he thinks he wants but that may not happen in real life. Sometimes, he can do what is called a Delayed Enlistment, where the recruiter has him sign the paperwork now and then he reports to Basic in (hypothetically) January 2015 for a follow-on job in Vehicle Maintenance. If he reported to Basic this summer, for example, he'd get whatever job was open when he graduated, but by waiting, he gets what he wants, if all goes well. (Vehicle Maintenance isn't real big in the AF...bigger in the Army....we tend to contract out most of our car repairs)

He can certainly quit if he wants to, during Basic...there is no draft. But after that, he really can't without deliberately getting into trouble, to get kicked out to leave early. So he needs to know --- this is 4 years of his life, he can't quit and he might end up on backwoods North Dakota (no offense, Grand Forks AFB) and he can't leave. Or he might end up near Venice, Italy. Or Afghanistan. It won't be his choice. He won't get to choose when to go to work (could work midnight shift), when to eat (dining hall closes at X time) and where to live (in a dorm...he will NOT get to live in his own apartment as a new Airman).

The GI Bill does not pay out until 3 years have been served....so if he thinks "the AF will pay for my school", sure they will, but not right now. He won't be allowed to take college classes until he's been in a few years...at the beginning, they want you to learn your job, not take Biology and World History on your off time.

Can he pass the PT requirements? No joke, you have to be able to or you don't graduate Basic. Some American teens can't. (look them up on line, they go by age and gender)

Lastly, as a former Commander, I would not want your son in my unit. I say that plainly, because I had Airmen that were as you described your son....lazy, disrespectful, argumentative but always thinking they know better. Sure, Basic might help him overcome some of that but if he's an eye-roller, he may just smirk his way through and become a difficult Airman. All of his good qualities --- funny, big hearted, well spoken, well read -- are not going to make up for the fact that when I give him an order to go clean out the tool box and he rolls his eyes, or does a half-baked job, or mutters under his breath about how stupid this is, I simply don't need that. Because if he does that when I tell him to clean out the tool box, what will he do when I tell him to get down because a mortar is coming in? Or get in the convoy because we've got to go? Or fix a car for the umpteeth time....he thinks it's fine but the seasoned NCO thinks it needs one more check?

You have to take orders in the military...everyone does, except the Commander in Chief. Even 4 star Generals take orders and sometimes they don't like them but they do them. You know your son better than anyone...is he going to take the order or give attitude, etc? If he is, better for him not to enlist right now --- wait until he's ready. Because if you are a chronic problem Airman, you're going to get kicked out and possibly with a Less-than-Honorable Discharge, which will affect future employment.

Maybe instead of the military, how about AmeriCorps or something similar...where are aren't repercussions for not following orders? Something he can get out of, it it's not his thing? 17 is a hard age...you are expected to know what you want to do in life, but really, does anyone at that age? (I went to college, did ROTC so I had time to think about it). Today's 17 year olds are, I think, pretty convinced that they can do whatever they want and they'll figure out a way to make it happen, and unfortunately, in the military that's not true. I still encounter Airmen who are shocked that they have to work on a Saturday or do a "boring" job, or can't have their phone/Facebook while working in certain areas...shocked, because it doesn't fit with what they want to do right now, and they don't quite see why someone else has the "power" to tel them what they can and cannot do. But that's the military...and you go to jail if you disobey orders.

OP, your son has got to be a little stressed about what he wants to/is supposed to do next. Joining the Reserves might be a way to ease into the military....one weekend a month while in college, and he'd still get the GI Bill after 3 years. Then if he likes it, he can go active duty and if he doesn't, well thank you for your service, and best wishes. He could also do extra active duty time if he wanted, or just the one weekend a month thing....he'd have a lot more flexibility and choices.

Good luck to you both.

 

[mousefanmichelle]

OP,

22 year AF vet here (still in, actually).

Thank you to everyone that went before me, but please realize the AF of the 80s, 90s and even 00s isn't the AF of today. We're downsizing left and right and it is pointless to get anything "in writing"...."needs of the AF" is always going to trump whatever the Airman wants.

So -- the recruiter can "promise" him mechanic or whatever job he thinks he wants but that may not happen in real life. Sometimes, he can do what is called a Delayed Enlistment, where the recruiter has him sign the paperwork now and then he reports to Basic in (hypothetically) January 2015 for a follow-on job in Vehicle Maintenance. If he reported to Basic this summer, for example, he'd get whatever job was open when he graduated, but by waiting, he gets what he wants, if all goes well. (Vehicle Maintenance isn't real big in the AF...bigger in the Army....we tend to contract out most of our car repairs)

He can certainly quit if he wants to, during Basic...there is no draft. But after that, he really can't without deliberately getting into trouble, to get kicked out to leave early. So he needs to know --- this is 4 years of his life, he can't quit and he might end up on backwoods North Dakota (no offense, Grand Forks AFB) and he can't leave. Or he might end up near Venice, Italy. Or Afghanistan. It won't be his choice. He won't get to choose when to go to work (could work midnight shift), when to eat (dining hall closes at X time) and where to live (in a dorm...he will NOT get to live in his own apartment as a new Airman).

The GI Bill does not pay out until 3 years have been served....so if he thinks "the AF will pay for my school", sure they will, but not right now. He won't be allowed to take college classes until he's been in a few years...at the beginning, they want you to learn your job, not take Biology and World History on your off time.

Can he pass the PT requirements? No joke, you have to be able to or you don't graduate Basic. Some American teens can't. (look them up on line, they go by age and gender)

Lastly, as a former Commander, I would not want your son in my unit. I say that plainly, because I had Airmen that were as you described your son....lazy, disrespectful, argumentative but always thinking they know better. Sure, Basic might help him overcome some of that but if he's an eye-roller, he may just smirk his way through and become a difficult Airman. All of his good qualities --- funny, big hearted, well spoken, well read -- are not going to make up for the fact that when I give him an order to go clean out the tool box and he rolls his eyes, or does a half-baked job, or mutters under his breath about how stupid this is, I simply don't need that. Because if he does that when I tell him to clean out the tool box, what will he do when I tell him to get down because a mortar is coming in? Or get in the convoy because we've got to go? Or fix a car for the umpteeth time....he thinks it's fine but the seasoned NCO thinks it needs one more check?

You have to take orders in the military...everyone does, except the Commander in Chief. Even 4 star Generals take orders and sometimes they don't like them but they do them. You know your son better than anyone...is he going to take the order or give attitude, etc? If he is, better for him not to enlist right now --- wait until he's ready. Because if you are a chronic problem Airman, you're going to get kicked out and possibly with a Less-than-Honorable Discharge, which will affect future employment.

Maybe instead of the military, how about AmeriCorps or something similar...where are aren't repercussions for not following orders? Something he can get out of, it it's not his thing? 17 is a hard age...you are expected to know what you want to do in life, but really, does anyone at that age? (I went to college, did ROTC so I had time to think about it). Today's 17 year olds are, I think, pretty convinced that they can do whatever they want and they'll figure out a way to make it happen, and unfortunately, in the military that's not true. I still encounter Airmen who are shocked that they have to work on a Saturday or do a "boring" job, or can't have their phone/Facebook while working in certain areas...shocked, because it doesn't fit with what they want to do right now, and they don't quite see why someone else has the "power" to tel them what they can and cannot do. But that's the military...and you go to jail if you disobey orders.

OP, your son has got to be a little stressed about what he wants to/is supposed to do next. Joining the Reserves might be a way to ease into the military....one weekend a month while in college, and he'd still get the GI Bill after 3 years. Then if he likes it, he can go active duty and if he doesn't, well thank you for your service, and best wishes. He could also do extra active duty time if he wanted, or just the one weekend a month thing....he'd have a lot more flexibility and choices.

Good luck to you both.

First off, thank you for your service to our great country!

I appreciate your honesty with the situation. He has a lot to really think about and consider. He is young. He may be underestimating the reality of the career path. I know that I probably have as well. We need to talk to a recruiter to get more information. I have heard horror stories about Navy recruiters lying to my cousins son and that worries me. I don't want to him to rush into anything without doing some leg work first.

Again, thanks for the feedback. Gives me a lot to think about!