My Rant on tipping

I don't understand why WDW feels that removing a guaranteed gratuity HELPS the servers gain a larger tip, when now everyone is going to tip what they thought the meal/service was worth.

Elsewhere on the board the union contract was posted and it revealed that the servers are in fact getting a guaranteed service charge of 3% which is paid by Disney in addition to whatever gratuity the guest pays. The guests are heavily pressured, by the way the check is presented with a suggested 18%-20% tip, which if paid by room key, must be settled in front of the server. So before they were guaranteed an 18% service charge, now they are getting a combined 21-23% combined service charge and tip. It is entirely likely that the servers are getting more service charge and tip per customer than they got on the old plan.
 
Disney isnt the only one putting tip suggestions on the check. We ate at Wings in Bham last weekend and on our check was our total and then under that was Suggested tip 15% and an amount and Suggested tip 20% and an amount. I just thought it was interesting after much discussion on these boards that Disney is printing that information on the check that I would also see it on a check at a local resturant.

The key difference is tip is traditionally settled when the guests leave the table (by leaving cash or writing a tip on the credit card receipt). In this case, a suggested tip can be viewed as a light pressure or a calculating convenience if your are charitable. Disney is requiring guests paying gratuities via room key to settle the tip at the same time as the rest of the check, so any tip less than the suggested amount theoretically runs the risk of confronation with the server, which is a _much_ greater amount of pressure.
 
I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.
 
Just have being diagnostic with breast cancer and head to cancel our vacation in WDW.
In my "good” days when the chemo isn't to bad I read the board feeling still a little bit of the magic

I made a promess to give a big tipp to all the waiters as soon as I'm aible to return to WDW.:flower3:

:cutie:

I remember !! I have thought about you and wondered how you were doing. You have been in my thoughts and prayers. Here's wishing and hoping for more good days.pixiedust:
 

I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.

The amounts posted were originally posted by Dis servers. Also, the hourly wage is posted all over the internet....not just here.

It doesn't have any bearing to me either.....but I bet it does to the servers when they receive their paycheck!
 
I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.

I appreciate you feeling like that about the wages being made public. However, the entire Disney Contract is on the internet - this is just copied and pasted from information that is already out there from another source. Were it a private thing I wouldn't have shared. That'd be a big breach in trust.

I agree that it (the servers base wage) shouldn't affect your tipping, however I felt it important to address that their base wage is not the $2.00/hr that was being cited by some in this thread. Falsely believing that a server at Disney makes $2.00/hr may affect some people's positions on tipping. For those that it does affect, I believe that they should have the correct (public) information.
 
I agree with #1 and #3, if the service is bad, don't tip highly. I am very easy to please, and have only left less then 15% once at Disney.

#2 I can't agree with. You know Disney's prices are high, the tips are just a part of the cost while dining out, and you shouldn't tip less just because the food cost is higher then normal.

#4 I would say it depends. If the food tastes bad, or is something you just don't care for, then it is not the server's fault. If it is something the server messed up, then depending on how it is handled, it should or should not affect the tip.
 
/
I again respectfully disagree; the diner HAD at least one serving of the beverage of choice - it seems unreasonable to effectively not pay for a given item because more than one of that item was not received. Just for example: appetizer = $6, entree = $18, dessert = $4, coffee = $2. Total check $30. Fifteen percent (standard tip) of that is $4.50; instead, the server is tipped $2.50, or EIGHT-point-three percent? Doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense to me either. :confused3
 
It doesn't make sense to me either. :confused3

In the real world....people tip according to the service they receive. They don't think they are there to supplement an employee's wages.....nor do the tip item by item. I really think this gets way over analyzed sometimes.
 
I believe in tipping on service - I use 20% as a baseline... but totally due it on service.. good service is about 20% GREAT SERVICE is more... we have been known to give a 50% to 75% tip for GREAT service and bad serivice - well depends how bad...
 
:lmao: kaytieeldr, either you feel really strongly about your post, or the boards are messing up again :rotfl:
Little of both? :teeth:

Right after this posts, I'm going to try to do something about those echoes... echoes... echoes... echoes...
 
This is almost exactly what Disney is doing in the way they handle "suggesting" a tip amount. From what has been posted on the boards, the server comes back with a check with a suggested 18% and 20% tip amount pre-calculated on the check. (If paying by room key), the guest then has to write in on the check the amount of tip before the server takes the check and key back to settle the check. This is just like Disney putting the 20% tip in the cup on the table for you (using your money by the way) and then asking you to take it back, in front of the server, if you think a lesser tip is appropriate.
Y'know, I can really see your point - but I don't see it that way.
That 'money in the saucer and telling the server "This is your starting tip"' is just an updated version of the old 'placing a stack of ones on the table' and saying the same thing. In both cases, and despite TLSnell's statement that her servers would be doing everything they can to get the saucer filled to the top, that's NOT how it works (among the few diners who actually do this). Nobody adds to the tip; it's more like Pastorswife said, about removing money when this isn't done, or when you're not told that, or your beverage needs to be refilled longer than you want - the diners remove money, they don't add to it.
 
Y'know, I can really see your point - but I don't see it that way.
That 'money in the saucer and telling the server "This is your starting tip"' is just an updated version of the old 'placing a stack of ones on the table' and saying the same thing. In both cases, and despite TLSnell's statement that her servers would be doing everything they can to get the saucer filled to the top, that's NOT how it works (among the few diners who actually do this). Nobody adds to the tip; it's more like Pastorswife said, about removing money when this isn't done, or when you're not told that, or your beverage needs to be refilled longer than you want - the diners remove money, they don't add to it.

I have personally never seen this done. I have had customers tip on the front end and tell their servers they expected spectacular service.....of course they received it and sometimes received a larger gratuity in the end.
 
I would imagine servers make a lot of money. If they wait on what....5 tables per hour? Would that be a good average and if the bill is $100, they're making typically $10-25 per bill which would be $50-125/hr. in that hour of 5 tables? How much do they get to keep and how much do they have to share with other staff?
It would seem as though they are making a decent living with a job that does not require any education (but obvioulsy it takes a lot of skill and patience)
It seems that so many people feel bad for the wait staff. that's the job they've chosen and again, it seems like they must make a decent living. What's there to feel bad about?
 
just wanted to throw my two cents in:

Tipping has been around in Western Civilization for over 400 years. Most Western European countries have moved away from tipping towards the "service charge". I'm not sure why the semantics of a "service charge" versus an "automatic gratuity" are so upsetting. As with most things, Europe is ahead of the cultural curve and we are seeing this trend slowly coming to America. Per Se, a very high end New York restaurant, was lauded in the New York Times for abolishing the tip in lieu of the service charge. This is a $250/head restaurant with a 2 month waiting list. The service charge, included in that price, is a 20% gratuity to the service. An while percentages vary, the service charge is how servers in countries that don't have "gratuity" are paid. Perhaps it is a purely psychological discomfort with the notion of being in charge of someones compensation - the gratuity - that causes people to believe that a "service charge" that nets the exact same results is somehow different. Also, guess what happened after implementing the service charge included set price menu. You guessed it - customers continued to tip extra. Also, the menu price has increased 69% in 2.5 years. Here are some links:

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/361713
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/o...0f5ff2faa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

The 18% mandatory tip on parties of 6 or more also seems to cause a lot of consternation. This has not just come into play in Disney World, but is common all over the place at all classes of restaurants. Why? Well, numerous studies have demonstrated that the more people the smaller the bill adjusted tip is. And not by a small amount either. With an average tip for a single diner of 17.5% every additional diner at the table decreases the average tip by .7%. 6 people at a table average a 13.3% tip. 8 people at a table average a 11.9%. Obviously no one here would ever tip that way, unless the service was terrible, but on average everyone else does. Unhappy waiters/waitresses who work large parties and get stiffed spread their misery to other tables. These customers complain to managers. These servers complain to managers. Overtime it obviously became apparent the it was worth a small amount of griping about an auto-grat at the beginning of a meal than dealing with the ramnifications of p.o.'ed servers and miserable customers. Here some research on the subject:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dicook/stat503/05/cs-tips2.pdf

Finally, for all the insistence here that everyone wants to be free to tip based exclusively on the quality of service, the facts don't show that to be true in the real world. In a rather large survey tip percentage showed little correlation to the rating service was given. However, there were dramatic differences in how men tip women, women tip men, how different ethnic groups tip each other, whether the server mentioned their name, bent down to talk, etc. More fun stuff, this from the world's foremost authority on the subject of tipping:

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/wml3/pdf/Beyond_Gratitude_and_Gratuity.pdf

Nothing anyone says here is actually going to change anyone elses opinion on this topic. Automatic gratuties will continue to become the norm until we switch the term to service charges. Then we can argue whether the people that don't tip above the service charge are cheapskates or whether the people that do are show off so an sos. However, I will point out that I love going to Disney World and have never had a "bad" experience although I have had some thoroughly average service. But I would never want to go into a restaurant betting against the service as badly as some people here seem to want to. Stop fretting about "what if" your service is so bad you would want to leave less than 18%. On a $100 meal if you felt your service would have gotten 15% you are talking about a difference of $3. Is this really worth getting you blood pressure up about? If something about the experience was so bad that you think you need to stiff the server (10% or less - in my opinion) then something probably happened that needs to be brought to someones attention - so take the moment to speak to a manager and save someone else from going through the same thing. If it doesn't rise to speaking to a manager it probably doesn't deserve less than 15%.

About the 3% gratuity - no one here really knows anything about what that means at all. I will guess though, that 3% is the amount that Disney servers tip out nightly to the rest of the house. The rate would be in line with nicer restaurants so certainly makes a plausible solution. Again, I don't know why everyone wants so badly to find reason to give as little as possible to the people that choose to come at work at what is supposedly our favorite place.

And before the haters start in, I didn't say one word about how hard anyone works, how buffets in the world compare outside of it, or how much/little anyone actually makes.
 
The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.
 
The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.


I will provide the first link I found but I think Fodors is a fairly reputable source.

http://www.fodors.com/news/story_1892.html

According to them of the 18 countries discussed you can typically expect a service charge included in your final price in 10 of them. Of those it is encouraged that you tip extra in 7. In only Spain and Portugal earn the distinction that service is included in price but does not contain a service charge - and tipping is encouraged. Belgium earns the distinction as the only country where there is neither a service charge nor is tipping encouraged.

I think that in many of these countries the you are given one price, but it is inclusive of tax and service charge.

I am mainly trying to point out that US restaurants are behind the curve on hiding the cost of servers in the meal. The most exclusive restaurant in Manhattan can get away with it. Your neighborhood family restaurant can't because the competition will eat them alive. Suddenly their $6 sandwich is $7.20 service included, but everyone decides to go to their competitor where a sandwich is $6 and they can decide how much to leave. European restaurants aren't running at lower profits because they are more charitable to their employees and customers. They have just managed to switch the paradigm of how people perceive what they are paying.

At a Chili's (the US based chain) in London, today it would cost 9.45 Euro for a Cajun Chicken Sandwich. Here today in my town this same sandwich costs $7.29. After converting currency the same sandwich, from the same chain restaurant would cost me $13.85. I would hope the 90% increase in cost would help cover a wage similar to tip earnings in the US.
 





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