My mom - what a piece of work (update post 84/125/149/154)

[jen0610]

OK, that is not a good plan.

I would put pressure on your father to force his wife into getting help or getting him some help as to why he puts up with this.

Say something to dad along the lines of "we are taking a break from the both of you, so we can decide what we need to do." Make him think about this, instead of totally demonizing your mother. She is mentally ill and he is supposed to be the well one.

Now I know you will say, that is sooo harsh and no way can I do this. Unfortunately the reality of this is your father is part of the problem.

He stays married to a woman that abuses him. If this were reversed we would say that the woman should get out of that situation.

Making your father's life a living Hades is not good for him.

Very good point. Can you imagine what would be said if a man took his wife's cell phone away and cut her off from the rest of her family? It sounds like OP's dad has resigned himself to living this way, as I'm assuming they've been married for over 40 years and her mental issues have probably not just started if they are this severe now. He's been enabling her behavior and likely won't do anything to make his situation better. Sad for everybody involved, but OP has to make the choice of what is best for her family (meaning her, her DH and kids).

I am and will always be daddy's little girl. I fight tooth and nail for my dad. I have lived, since I was a teen, with the attitude of mess with my dad and you don't have to worry about him, it's me you have to look out for. And for as much as I love and would do anything for my dad, his and moms life kills me. He is very much of the old school - for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part. He knows it's not healthy for him to live with what she doles out. And I am willing to bet I don't even know a 10th of what all she does. But to take what little time he does get to spend with the kids, totally away from him, would take anything that is positive in his personnel life away. Even just typing that makes me start to cry. To cut him off from the kids, it would kill my dad, then she wins. He would tell you that he can take whatever she wants to dish out at him.

 

[RunningGirl]

I am so sorry. We all have this vision of how our mothers should be and it's tough to give that up. At this point, though, you can no longer give her the benefit of the doubt and need to protect your own family. Since your dad allowed this to happen, he has chosen his wife over his grandkids and therefore should not be involved with them other than phone calls.

I agree with a pp, make sure the schools/activities your kids attend have your mom on the list of people NOT allowed access to your kids. I work at a school and, sadly, this is more common than you might think

Until mom gets serious psychiatric help and has been in treatment for some time, sorry but no contact. I'd even change the kids' cell phone numbers so she doesn't deluge them with guilt.

 

[ChrizJen]

Wow! What a difficult situation!
I think your decision to keep the kids away until she decides to get help is the best move you can make. I would definitely have to shut myself and my family off from someone as poisonous as it sounds like she is...But I agree with others that for his own good and the good of all of you, your father needs to step up and take some action in this as well. Yes, your mother is the one who needs help. But she's obvioulsy not going to get it on her own. Perhaps 911 should have been called the night that all of this happened. Something needs to be done, and until your dad decides to get her the help she needs, he's only facilitating her behavior.

It sounds like your kids have good heads on their shoulders and are old enough to likely know this already, but just make sure that they know that none of this is their fault. Your DD probably somehow feels like it's her fault for getting her hair cut. She needs to know that it had very little to do with the haircut, and everything to do with the fact that the woman is not mentally stable. And I do think that they are old enough that you can explain to them what's going on. They're obviously aware that something isn't right. I would think that it would do them some good to sit down with you and discuss what happened and why it happened.

Good luck! And make sure your DD still knows how beautiful she is!!!

 

[Jennasis]

Right which puts him in a place that harms your children. Why do I say that?

It is because he is protecting his wife. And he will choose her over his grandkids. That is something you need to keep in the forefront of your mind at all times. Do not let your father have unsupervised visits either.

Not sure I understand you here. I was suggesting that the OP should offer her father encouragment and emotional support etc if he attempts to better his situation (be it by getting counseling for himself, filing for divorce etc...). I do NOT advocate giving him visitation unsupervised. Right now he is an enabler at the very best.

 

[Jennasis]

OP...would you be ok sharing the other details of that night? What did your mom say/do to DD and where did your husband fins her? I am assuming she was hiding somewhere?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I am and will always be daddy's little girl. I fight tooth and nail for my dad. I have lived, since I was a teen, with the attitude of mess with my dad and you don't have to worry about him, it's me you have to look out for. And for as much as I love and would do anything for my dad, his and moms life kills me. He is very much of the old school - for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part. He knows it's not healthy for him to live with what she doles out. And I am willing to bet I don't even know a 10th of what all she does. But to take what little time he does get to spend with the kids, totally away from him, would take anything that is positive in his personnel life away. Even just typing that makes me start to cry. To cut him off from the kids, it would kill my dad, then she wins. He would tell you that he can take whatever she wants to dish out at him.

I did not say "cut him off"....I said take a break from the both of them. Both you and your father need to sit back and think about things.

Esp. I would be thinking why my father did not protect my child.

 

[Family Fun Mom]

I'm no shrink, but clearly your mom has serious problems. I hope you explained to your kids that their grandma loves them but she just isn't in her right mind. I feel so bad for your daughter. I hope someday she can understand what happened. You are right in keeping those kids away from her. Even if she gets help, never leave them alone with her again. How scary! I hope this is a wake up call for her and your dad. She needs help. Serious help. I hope she gets it.

 

[Keli]

That whole incident had to seem like something out of the twilight zone. Your poor daughter! I don't blame you for keeping the kids away from grandma, they shouldn't have to endure that treatment.
I hope you can get your mom into treatment somewhere, she does obviously need help.

 

[jen0610]

Btw, where was your dad while this was all going on?
agnes!

Ihe wasn't very helpful when this situation was happening while he was right there in the house(

My dad wasn't in the house. When we got there, he was out mowing the lawn, across the street. When we left, he was working of finishing that back yard. Mom was in her room. DS and DD were outside. They were told to stay outside. DD had to got to the bathroom, when she came out, grandma was standing there and that is when the screaming and chasing started. DS didn't see what back yard grandpa went into and he thought it would be better if he stayed where his sister was.

Also, where was your daughter when your dh arrived?

Where did he find her?

Grandma had her corner in the back bathroom. DD was standing in the tub, in the corner with one arm wrapped around her head and the other arm she was swinging at her grandma to keep her from getting to close. I asked her if she hit her grandma, she said once in the face. That is when she started screaming out just like you mother, at DD.

ITA!

And give your DS a hug for standing up for his sis -- brothers don't always do that at his age.

Believe me.....he has been hugged for trying to do what he could. When my mom chased DD to the back of the house, since he knew DH was on his way, he gathered up the items they took over there up and got them into the garage.

 

[Jennasis]

You have to wonder...exactly what WAS your mother planning to do when she caught your daughter???

Scary stuff folks.

 

[C.Ann]

My dad wasn't in the house. When we got there, he was out mowing the lawn, across the street. When we left, he was working of finishing that back yard. Mom was in her room. DS and DD were outside. They were told to stay outside. DD had to got to the bathroom, when she came out, grandma was standing there and that is when the screaming and chasing started. DS didn't see what back yard grandpa went into and he thought it would be better if he stayed where his sister was.

I'm sorry.. I do apologize.. When reading your first post, you did say that your dad said the kids would be okay and he would take them out to eat to get them away from grandma.. There's where I got confused.. However (and this is coming from the biggest "Daddy's Little Girl" ever - although my dad is deceased now), your kids are not safe over there with your mom being in the house.. Your dad should not be punished (by you) for your mom's actions, but your children's safety MUST come first - thus the suggestion of your dad seeing them only at your house.. If he has to put up with a lot of back talk from your mom - well - he's chosen to do it for this long, so he can continue to do it in order to see his grandkids..

I promise you - your dad can take care of himself.. He's been doing it for the all the years he's lived with your mom..

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Grandma had her corner in the back bathroom. DD was standing in the tub, in the corner with one arm wrapped around her head and the other arm she was swinging at her grandma to keep her from getting to close. I asked her if she hit her grandma, she said once in the face. That is when she started screaming out just like you mother, at DD.

OMG!!!

Hugs to both of your children. And I guarantee you that whether it was my DH or myself, bail would have to have been posted. Your mother is ill as you have stated. I'm just ill thinking about the fear your poor DD went through.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Wow. I'm so sorry this happened. I think anybody who reads this post would agree that your mother is mentally ill. Until she gets help, I would not speak to her if I were you, and I'd certainly keep my kids clear of her. If she tries to contact them, I would seriously consider taking out a restraining order because her behavior towards your daughter is frightening. I'm surprised that if you knew your mother had serious issues, you left your kids there with her after she reacted so insanely after seeing your daughter's hair. There is absolutely no reason why a grandmother should behave this way about anything, much less a haircut.

None of us, would have ever guessed that she would so totally lose it on the grandkids. Her own words - Logan and Delaney are all that I have to look forward to. The sun and moon rise and set on these kids. They are the only grandkids she has.

I'm sorry, I think that if you looked at your mother's behavior clearly over the years you would see that this would have been predictable. You said that you've always had very long hair growing up. That's not just you; families with long hair usually have a mother that's very invested in keeping a daughter's hair long. Were there discussions between you and your mother when you were a child where she would not let you cut your hair? I bet there were.

When she said that the only things she has to look forward to are the kids, that should not have re-assured you, that should have been a red flag. This woman is screaming for help, and it seems like nobody knows how to give it to her or to establish boundaries with her. Everyone, including your dad, is tiptoeing around her.

My dad will get to see the kids as much as he can, outside their house. The only problem is, when she finds out he is seeing them, she will lose it one him and make his live in that house a living hades. About 6 years ago, he came over to our house one Christmas Eve before going to chruch, she found out about it and he hasn't heard the end of it. Every year, when he gets ready to go to Christmas Eve service, she starts in about going to their house to make me look bad in from of T's (DH) family.

He is allowing her to throw temper tantrums and behave in this manner. He is absolutely allowing this behavior. Have you ever heard him once say to your mother "Your behavior is not acceptable to me and I want it to stop right now. If you do not stop, there will be consequences."

I agree she should never have left them in that house.

Yes. This is hard to hear. Sometimes you know something is wrong and you do it anyway and you hope for the best. Everyone screws up with their kids. This is one of those times for you. You screwed up by leaving them there because you can't undo what happened.

Right which puts him in a place that harms your children. Why do I say that?

It is because he is protecting his wife. And he will choose her over his grandkids. That is something you need to keep in the forefront of your mind at all times. Do not let your father have unsupervised visits either.

I absolutely believe this as well. If you think your dad will protect your kids, ask yourself did he protect you adequately from this woman when you were growing up? Your next quote below states that you protected your dad-why do you think he would protect your kids? It is not how he has previously behaved.

I am and will always be daddy's little girl. I fight tooth and nail for my dad. I have lived, since I was a teen, with the attitude of mess with my dad and you don't have to worry about him, it's me you have to look out for. And for as much as I love and would do anything for my dad, his and moms life kills me. He is very much of the old school - for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part. He knows it's not healthy for him to live with what she doles out. And I am willing to bet I don't even know a 10th of what all she does. But to take what little time he does get to spend with the kids, totally away from him, would take anything that is positive in his personnel life away. Even just typing that makes me start to cry. To cut him off from the kids, it would kill my dad, then she wins. He would tell you that he can take whatever she wants to dish out at him.

If you are Daddy's Little Girl, he should be fighting tooth and nail to protect you, not vice versa.

Why does your dad make you protect him?

Does he say that your mother makes him unhappy?

Does he say that he wants things to change?

I don't think he does, because he likes things the way they are now. His statement "I can take whatever she dishes out" says to me he does not want things to change, or is unwilling to make those changes, even when it CLEARLY hurts your family.

He can see your kids any time he wants without her, he just gets in the car and comes over. You're not cutting him off from the kids, you are establishing boundaries where you protect your own children.

Both of your parents either respect that, or your mother will throw more temper tantrums to get attention and your dad will play the martyr card.

I cannot reiterate enough that these women who behave like this continue this behavior because it is SUCCESSFUL until somebody reaches their breaking point and cuts them off completely. That in itself creates a whole new drama for the person-oh, woe is me, my family hates me, yadda yadda yadda, nobody will talk to me. They will continue to feed off that.

Instead, change it up. Have the difficult discussions with her. No more tiptoeing. No more letting the dad off the hook for behaviors he fully supports and participates in. He's not a victim; if he's not putting a stop to it, then he's part of it.

I can tell you, if you begin to change the family dynamic this way, things WILL get uglier before they get better. You'll either discover that your mother is truly mentally ill to the point where she requires care, or that most of what is occurring is behavioral and can be changed. Hope for the latter.

Let me emphasize that I am not trying to tear you down; sometimes the answers are hard to hear and harsh. Life and relationships can be really ugly sometimes, especially when we deny behaviors that are right before our eyes. This is how I see your family based upon what you have presented here, and this is my advice for how to begin to find a solution. Take it or not, as you wish, but know that the spirit it was given was to try and make your world, and your children's world, a more peaceful one.

 

[jen0610]

I too am wondering why the kids were left with her? She was in a totally irrational, unstable and very scary state, as described to us. Are we missing something here, did you see her calm down and become rational before you left that house? You've painted a very abusive situation here for us, and then all of a sudden you leave to have a date with your DH. Can you fill in the blanks so us parents can understand?

Anything that mom doesn't like or agree with, she throws a hissy fit. She cries, she pouts, she slams doors. After she has her temper tantrum, she ignores what she doesn't like or in the case of clothing that us kids would buy, she would ruin, shrink or just flat out get rid of. SHE HAS NEVER REACTED TO THIS EXTENT TOWARDS THE GRANDKIDS. THIS IS A FIRST, AND A LAST, FOR HER TOWARDS THE KIDS. None of us, DH, dad or I would have even guessed she would go where she went. When were were all standing outside talking, we all would have told you the extent of her responce would have been for her to stay in her bedroom all night pouting.

The first time I had my hair cut by someone other than herself, she didn't speak to me for a month. Which at 18, was wonderful. I am 41 years old, have been getting my hair cut and color over the years by KD since I was 18. Never ONCE has my cut or color met with mothers approval, not that I could give a rats hinny what she thought of my decisions.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Wow. I am so sorry your daughter had to go through that.

There is no way in hell my children would be spending another minute with her until she got help.

Obviously she need pyschiatric help, but if you or your dad could convince her to go to her regular doctor and give her symptoms (it could be just a matter of depression. I had a family member like that and she was diagnosed with depression, put on anti-depressants and has been completely normal since), say she thinks she's depressed, he could prescribe anti-depressants (mood stabilizers) and that could open the door for further treatment, if she needs it.

A lot of people will go to their regular doctor for depression when they wouldn't dream of seeing a psychiatrist. After they're on the medication, sometimes they're more open to seeing a therapist.

If she acts like she is going to harm herself or someone else, you can call the police and have her taken to a hospital, but for just mood disturbances, no one will intervene if she is an adult.

 

[Disney Doll]

Wow...

Obviously you know very well that your mother can have no exposure whatsoever to your children. And you know the steps to take...informing school, dance class, sports coaches, any extra-curricular activities including when they go to their friends' homes, that under no circumstances are either of your children allowed to be picked up by your mother or father, regardless of what your mother and father say. I'd also get new cell phones & #'s for the kids so they didn't have to listen to her rants. I'd keep the old phones and the #'s active though, so she could continue to leave messages which you can then continue to keep as documentation of her behavior should you ever need it.

As far as Mom...she's done. No contact. If she decides to get mental help, then perhaps you will think about allowing occasional, supervised-by-you-and-your-DH, contact. No mental help, no contact. Mom needs to be made aware in no uncertain terms that she she crossed and left the line 5 miles back in the dust and that behavior will not be tolerated. If her problem is psychiatric, she needs help. If her problem is behavioral, insofar as she has always pulled this kind of crap because she has always been allowed to get away with it, then it's time for her to learn the consequences of bad behavior. Frankly, I think mental illness is more the culprit here because I cannot imagine that any normal adult woman would think that it is appropriate to behave in the manner in which your mother behaved. Keep in mind though that the mental illness is an explanation, not an excuse. There is no excuse for that behavior.

As far as Dad...yes you love him, yes you're Daddy's Girl, yes I'm sure he's done his best but the bottom line is that he has allowed this woman to carry on like this and not done anything to change it. "Old school" my foot...what you describe is abusive behavior, I am quite sure it's not the first time it has happened and frankly, people who would put up with that type of behavior need a certain amount of counselling themselves to figure out why it's acceptable to them to be used as a "virtual" punching bag, because, frankly, he has done that, under the guise of "I said for better or for worse". Neither I nor anyone else is impressed by his "commitment" to his marriage or by his martyrdom. So, since he has allowed it, he is just as responsible for what happpened as she is. I'd be a bit more lenient with him in terms of the kids, insofar as allowing him to come to your house ALONE to see them if he so chooses, but I would make it abundantly clear that he is not to bring his wife nor is he to say anything to the children that could even be remotely construed as guilt-producing (ie- "Grandma is so sorry about what she did and feels so bad that you guys don't want to see her" or "Grandma feels so bad that Mommy & Daddy won't let you see her").

And seeing as how your kids are 12 & 14, you need to sit down and discuss very clearly with them what you will be doing to protect them from their mentally ill grandmother & why. They also need to understand that they did nothing wrong and that Grandma has mental problems.

 

[Liberty Belle]

My dad wasn't in the house. When we got there, he was out mowing the lawn, across the street. When we left, he was working of finishing that back yard. Mom was in her room. DS and DD were outside. They were told to stay outside. DD had to got to the bathroom, when she came out, grandma was standing there and that is when the screaming and chasing started. DS didn't see what back yard grandpa went into and he thought it would be better if he stayed where his sister was.






Grandma had her corner in the back bathroom. DD was standing in the tub, in the corner with one arm wrapped around her head and the other arm she was swinging at her grandma to keep her from getting to close. I asked her if she hit her grandma, she said once in the face. That is when she started screaming out just like you mother, at DD.



Believe me.....he has been hugged for trying to do what he could. When my mom chased DD to the back of the house, since he knew DH was on his way, he gathered up the items they took over there up and got them into the garage.

Ok, that changes things a little bit. At that point, it would have been a good idea to call the police. I know it's embarrassing and I know it's not something your dad would want to do, but clearly your mother needs help. She's not going to get help, it seems, until she is forced. It is VERY difficult to get adults mental health help if they refuse it, unless they are trying to harm themselves or others. It sounds like she was trying to harm your daughter. I think this was definitely a missed opportunity.

I don't know what to tell you. I do know you, your children, your dad, and your husband are likely under tremendous amounts of stress from this and probably could all use a little counselling, if you can afford it. There is also comprehensive care if you cannot. Please, whatever you do, take care of yourself and your family. This kind of stress can be very harmful.

 

[RadioNate]

Anything that mom doesn't like or agree with, she throws a hissy fit. She cries, she pouts, she slams doors. After she has her temper tantrum, she ignores what she doesn't like or in the case of clothing that us kids would buy, she would ruin, shrink or just flat out get rid of. SHE HAS NEVER REACTED TO THIS EXTENT TOWARDS THE GRANDKIDS. THIS IS A FIRST, AND A LAST, FOR HER TOWARDS THE KIDS. None of us, DH, dad or I would have even guessed she would go where she went. When were were all standing outside talking, we all would have told you the extent of her responce would have been for her to stay in her bedroom all night pouting.

The first time I had my hair cut by someone other than herself, she didn't speak to me for a month. Which at 18, was wonderful. I am 41 years old, have been getting my hair cut and color over the years by KD since I was 18. Never ONCE has my cut or color met with mothers approval, not that I could give a rats hinny what she thought of my decisions.

You do realize that ANY kind of hissy fit throwing, crying, pouting, or door slamming over a HAIR CUT is seriously not normal don't you? I'm really concerned that you all just sort of ignore this behavior as being 'not that bad."

I can't believe you have put up with any of this over the years.

Unfortunately, I do have a cousin like this and frankly it sickens me the way my family tip-toes around her as to avoid the hissy fit she will throw if things are not to her liking. I'm the only one who stands up to her and doesn't tolerate it. Therefor, she doesn't like me much. She is nearly 30 and I fear in 40 years she will be your mother. Scary.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Anything that mom doesn't like or agree with, she throws a hissy fit. She cries, she pouts, she slams doors. After she has her temper tantrum, she ignores what she doesn't like or in the case of clothing that us kids would buy, she would ruin, shrink or just flat out get rid of. SHE HAS NEVER REACTED TO THIS EXTENT TOWARDS THE GRANDKIDS. THIS IS A FIRST, AND A LAST, FOR HER TOWARDS THE KIDS. None of us, DH, dad or I would have even guessed she would go where she went. When were were all standing outside talking, we all would have told you the extent of her responce would have been for her to stay in her bedroom all night pouting.

The first time I had my hair cut by someone other than herself, she didn't speak to me for a month. Which at 18, was wonderful. I am 41 years old, have been getting my hair cut and color over the years by KD since I was 18. Never ONCE has my cut or color met with mothers approval, not that I could give a rats hinny what she thought of my decisions.

She reminds me of someone who has suffered extensive abuse earlier and has a horrible unnatural need for control.

I think, though, it is good that this is the worse she has ever acted. Hopefully, she can realize that she's gone too far and will get some help. Like I said, if she can be convinced to go to her regular doctor for depression, the mood stabilizers will likely do her worlds of good. She cannot think clearly at this point and obviously cannot control her emotions. Medication would help that and make her able to see more clearly what needs to be done about her health.

If you refuse to let her see the kids, that might be the push that she needs to go to the doctor.

 

[agnes!]

My dad wasn't in the house. When we got there, he was out mowing the lawn, across the street. When we left, he was working of finishing that back yard. Mom was in her room. DS and DD were outside. They were told to stay outside. DD had to got to the bathroom, when she came out, grandma was standing there and that is when the screaming and chasing started. DS didn't see what back yard grandpa went into and he thought it would be better if he stayed where his sister was.






Grandma had her corner in the back bathroom. DD was standing in the tub, in the corner with one arm wrapped around her head and the other arm she was swinging at her grandma to keep her from getting to close. I asked her if she hit her grandma, she said once in the face. That is when she started screaming out just like you mother, at DD.



Believe me.....he has been hugged for trying to do what he could. When my mom chased DD to the back of the house, since he knew DH was on his way, he gathered up the items they took over there up and got them into the garage.

You have to wonder...exactly what WAS your mother planning to do when she caught your daughter???

Scary stuff folks.

I'm sorry.. I do apologize.. When reading your first post, you did say that your dad said the kids would be okay and he would take them out to eat to get them away from grandma.. There's where I got confused.. However (and this is coming from the biggest "Daddy's Little Girl" ever - although my dad is deceased now), your kids are not safe over there with your mom being in the house.. Your dad should not be punished (by you) for your mom's actions, but your children's safety MUST come first - thus the suggestion of your dad seeing them only at your house.. If he has to put up with a lot of back talk from your mom - well - he's chosen to do it for this long, so he can continue to do it in order to see his grandkids..

I promise you - your dad can take care of himself.. He's been doing it for the all the years he's lived with your mom..

Wow...

Obviously you know very well that your mother can have no exposure whatsoever to your children. And you know the steps to take...informing school, dance class, sports coaches, any extra-curricular activities including when they go to their friends' homes, that under no circumstances are either of your children allowed to be picked up by your mother or father, regardless of what your mother and father say. I'd also get new cell phones & #'s for the kids so they didn't have to listen to her rants. I'd keep the old phones and the #'s active though, so she could continue to leave messages which you can then continue to keep as documentation of her behavior should you ever need it.

As far as Mom...she's done. No contact. If she decides to get mental help, then perhaps you will think about allowing occasional, supervised-by-you-and-your-DH, contact. No mental help, no contact. Mom needs to be made aware in no uncertain terms that she she crossed and left the line 5 miles back in the dust and that behavior will not be tolerated. If her problem is psychiatric, she needs help. If her problem is behavioral, insofar as she has always pulled this kind of crap because she has always been allowed to get away with it, then it's time for her to learn the consequences of bad behavior. Frankly, I think mental illness is more the culprit here because I cannot imagine that any normal adult woman would think that it is appropriate to behave in the manner in which your mother behaved. Keep in mind though that the mental illness is an explanation, not an excuse. There is no excuse for that behavior.

As far as Dad...yes you love him, yes you're Daddy's Girl, yes I'm sure he's done his best but the bottom line is that he has allowed this woman to carry on like this and not done anything to change it. "Old school" my foot...what you describe is abusive behavior, I am quite sure it's not the first time it has happened and frankly, people who would put up with that type of behavior need a certain amount of counselling themselves to figure out why it's acceptable to them to be used as a "virtual" punching bag, because, frankly, he has done that, under the guise of "I said for better or for worse". Neither I nor anyone else is impressed by his "commitment" to his marriage or by his martyrdom. So, since he has allowed it, he is just as responsible for what happpened as she is. I'd be a bit more lenient with him in terms of the kids, insofar as allowing him to come to your house ALONE to see them if he so chooses, but I would make it abundantly clear that he is not to bring his wife nor is he to say anything to the children that could even be remotely construed as guilt-producing (ie- "Grandma is so sorry about what she did and feels so bad that you guys don't want to see her" or "Grandma feels so bad that Mommy & Daddy won't let you see her").

And seeing as how your kids are 12 & 14, you need to sit down and discuss very clearly with them what you will be doing to protect them from their mentally ill grandmother & why. They also need to understand that they did nothing wrong and that Grandma has mental problems.

Disney Doll - I had something all written out to post and lost it but it was very much in line with you just said, down to giving the kids' new cell-phones but keeping the old ones so the OP would have the self-serving, abusive, caustic messages DGrandma is *certain* to leave.

All I would add is that if anyone ever did this to my kid, I would have that person arrested and brought up on charges and take out a restraining/protective order. Put Grandma in jail? YOU BET.

agnes!