My dog seems to be having rage blackouts...

[disneynutt1225]

I'm at my wits end. A while ago he began attacking things when the mailman came (we have a mail slot in our front door). He would jump up on the couch and start attacking it. We immediately called a behaviorist who managed to tame down that behavior. He has now moved on to attacking other things at random times - he'll hear the neighbor's dog bark and he'll go into a fit. He's attacked the carpeted steps, more furniture, the rug in the hallway, and occasionally if we get too close he snaps at us. I really don't want to have to put him down, but I'm really at my wits end, and I think my family has had it with him (we live with my parents and brother).

Any thoughts as to what I can do? I don't want to call the behaviorist again, or at least not that one, because I really don't feel like she helped us move past the behavior. We did keep up with the training she suggested (more walks, more activity, etc.).

 

[marshallandcartersmo]

How old is the dog? How long have you had him? How long has this behavior been going on?

 

[disneynutt1225]

He'll be 4 in January. It hasn't been a constant behavior, but it's gotten really bad over the last 6 months or so (which is when we called the behaviorist in) and it has just escalated since she "fixed" the one behavior. Not sure if this is relevant but, he was attacked by another dog when he was a puppy and we had a home invasion when we lived in our apartment, so I think he's extra territorial.

ETA: We've had him since he was 4 months old or so.

 

[Imzadi]

Not sure if this is relevant but, he was attacked by another dog when he was a puppy and we had a home invasion when we lived in our apartment, so I think he's extra territorial.

Uh, yeah, I would think that was relevant. Every time the mailman puts something in the slot, it re-triggers the dog's fears, like Pavlov's dog. A partialsolution is to get an outside mailbox for the mailman to put the mail in. There is quite a difference in putting something outside the house vs. something actually coming in & invading the perimeter of the house.

If the behaviorist gave you techniques & they worked, then it worked. Consistency is the key. You need to keep applying the same techniques every time the dog attacks a new item. It's like when dogs go through a teething phase. You stop them from chewing on your favorite shoe, but then they will move onto your sneaker, etc. until you train him he's got a certain number of toys that are okay for him to chew on.

Right now, it doesn't sound like you (or the family) are the Alpha dog. His fears get re-triggered and he hasn't been taught what is acceptable behavior. It also doesn't sound like your dog trusts you to protect him when he gets restimulated, so he's been acting out on his own to protect himself. Even real Alpha dogs in a pack need to reassert their dominance often if an underling gets out of hand.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think I might also contact my vet and see if there is a mild behavior controlling drug you can give him...an anti-anxiety thing. Also, have you ruled out anything physical, such as a brain tumor??

 

[disneynutt1225]

How do we go about establishing that we are the Alpha Dog? Put him back on a leash and treat him like he is a puppy?

I also have to say that he is crate trained. He spends about 8 hours in the crate during the day while I'm at work, though my mother is home with him (she is handicapped and cannot get to him when he gets in trouble, so we decided to use the crate while I'm at work for his safety and hers).

I've thought about putting in a mailbox for a while - I just have to figure out the best place to do so and get the approval from my parents to have one installed.

 

[disneynutt1225]

I think I might also contact my vet and see if there is a mild behavior controlling drug you can give him...an anti-anxiety thing. Also, have you ruled out anything physical, such as a brain tumor??

He is physically healthy. No brain tumor, or symptoms that would lead us to believe he had one. He has a slight murmur in his heart, but it's a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. I've also thought about putting him on anti anxiety meds, but I'm really hesitant to medicate if I don't have to.

On the news last week, we saw a pheromone collar that is used in high stress animals. It releases a dog appeasing pheromone. We've thought about giving that a try as well.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

The bad news....a dog that is lashing out will bite someone severely and then you will put him down.

The good news is you can retrain him but it takes serious retraining, patience and committment on YOUR PART.

I would find a behaviorist or dog obedience trainer who is VERY experienced that is willingly to work with you closely and teach you proper dog pack status within a family.

Just from your description you need professional help. If you do not get that, the dog will eventually hurt someone.

 

[disneynutt1225]

The bad news....a dog that is lashing out will bite someone severely and then you will put him down.

The good news is you can retrain him but it takes serious retraining, patience and committment on YOUR PART.

I would find a behaviorist or dog obedience trainer who is VERY experienced that is willingly to work with you closely and teach you proper dog pack status within a family.

Just from your description you need professional help. If you do not get that, the dog will eventually hurt someone.

I know, which is why I want to nip it in the bud now. I'd rather get it corrected now than in a couple of years when I bring a baby into the mix. He really is a great dog most of the time - very loyal, loving, etc., it's just that when he goes into these fits he's very unpredictable.

The trainer we used has been working with dogs of all behaviors for over 20 years and she came recommended from the vet. I guess I will have to get another recommendation from them.

OT: Did you get that new collar yet? How is it working out?

 

[maddiemouse]

Please research "Sudden rage syndrome" It is genetic, and similar to epilepsy, the dog actually has no control over it. It is not a behavioral issue, and it sounds like your dog may be suffering from it.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I know, which is why I want to nip it in the bud now. I'd rather get it corrected now than in a couple of years when I bring a baby into the mix. He really is a great dog most of the time - very loyal, loving, etc., it's just that when he goes into these fits he's very unpredictable.


OT: Did you get that new collar yet? How is it working out?

What do you do when he has a fit or gets enraged?
How do you correct him?

As far as the collars, got them, but I have been sick.
I will update as soon as I can.

 

[Imzadi]

Also, have you ruled out anything physical, such as a brain tumor??

I was wondering if he has possibly started to lose his hearing. Maybe the less he's able to hear has been making him more anxious. Like he barely hears the neighbor's dog barking, can't determine himself what it's for & so he freaks out.

How do we go about establishing that we are the Alpha Dog? Put him back on a leash and treat him like he is a puppy?

I also have to say that he is crate trained. He spends about 8 hours in the crate during the day while I'm at work, though my mother is home with him (she is handicapped and cannot get to him when he gets in trouble, so we decided to use the crate while I'm at work for his safety and hers).

Has he always spent so much time in the crate, or is that more recent? Maybe having to spend so much time in there makes him anxious when he's out.

Also, if he seems to freak out more when he's out of the crate, maybe he does lack the socialization (or forgot how) to behave when he's out. It might be good to keep him on a lease for a while while he's out. This way you can more easily get direct control of him quicker and catch him as he first starts to act up. He might need that firm of a hand at first until he's secure enough being out of the crate.

On Oprah a while back, she had The Dog Whisperer on her show. Cesar (somebody). Her most beloved dog Sophie, who is NOT a young dog, goes crazy & attacks every other animal it sees. Since Oprah likes to have many dogs, it created quite a social problem amongst the dogs. She didn't want to have to keep Sophie separate from all the other dogs.

Cesar came on, saw how Oprah interacted with Sophie when Sophie would start going crazy & out of control. Essentially, Oprah went crazy & out of control while she was trying to control Sophie, yelling at the dog, becoming anxious herself, which just made the dog worse, because she was picking up the anxious cues of the Alpha dog (not realizing it was about her.)

Within about an hour, Cesar showed Oprah how to maintain a firm, strong, calm attitude while handling the dog during those times. When the dog realized who was in charge (whether Cesar or Oprah,) and that the Alpha dog had the situation under control, and even EXPECTED certain behavior from the submissive dog(s) during those times, Sophie actually fell in line. Knowing what behavior was expected, actually calmed her down. She calmly met the other dogs - even the new ones Cesar brought with him, as well as Oprah's other dogs that were used to being attacked. After a while Sophie was even playing with the other dogs.

Cesar has video tapes out & a book (I think.) Maybe some type of Dog Whisperer tape is on Youtube somewhere. Heck, when someone here recommended the best pet hair brush to get, I happened to find 7 Youtube clips of people just combing their pets with it. This is much more important than that.

 

[disneynutt1225]

Please research "Sudden rage syndrome" It is genetic, and similar to epilepsy, the dog actually has no control over it. It is not a behavioral issue, and it sounds like your dog may be suffering from it.

No, I don't think he has that at all. This is what most of the articles said:

1) sudden unpredictable biting, often directed at the dog's owner (this has been modified now to include biting that does occur in certain predictable situations as more observation of these dogs has occurred)
2) extreme aggressiveness during these attacks that often stops as suddenly
as it starts (this is referred to as uninhibited aggression in some reports)
3) dilation of the dog's eyes prior to the attack is a commonly reported sign
4) multiple bite wounds are common in biting incidents associated with this
syndrome

The behavior he has isn't unpredictable, there are definite triggers (people walking by outside, strange noises outside, the mailman delivering the mail, the neighbor's dog barking, etc).

He doesn't froth at the mouth during these "episodes" and he rarely gets aggressive towards us (just if we get too close while he's still at the high point).

I've had him on his leash most of the afternoon by my side so that I can get to him quickly to correct any bad behaviors. He gets very mellow when he's on his leash. I think we can beat this, it's just going to take time. Unfortunately with my husband overseas it's all going to fall on me, so I'm going to have to be patient with him as well.

 

[disneynutt1225]

What do you do when he has a fit or gets enraged?
How do you correct him?

Before we got the trainer, we were just yelling. Post trainer, we were using "quiet", shhhing him, getting him to sit, relax and calm down. He tends to calm down quick enough when someone is "on top of it", but that someone is usually me, which is why he's spending time in the crate when I'm not at home.

I was wondering if he has possibly started to lose his hearing. Maybe the less he's able to hear has been making him more anxious. Like he barely hears the neighbor's dog barking, can't determine himself what it's for & so he freaks out.

That's a possibility - he had chronic ear infections that we recently (in the past year) realized were due to allergies. One of the infections damaged his ear drum, but the vet said he "should" retain all hearing in that ear.

Re: the crate: He's been crate trained since he was a puppy. When we first got him, I would go home to walk him on my lunch breaks and we'd gradually increase the amount of time he spent in there until he was able to do a full 8 or 9 hour day without a problem. When we moved in with my parents we stopped putting him in the crate unless we were all leaving the house. I think I started putting him back in the crate during my work day a couple of months ago. He doesn't seem to mind the crate that much, in fact, he frequently goes into it when we're all home and the door is open.

I also have suspicions that when we were living in the apartment the maintenance men were coming and going without our knowledge. There were times I'd come home and I'd smell cigarette smoke in the apartment (I do smoke, but not in the house) that smelled like it had been done during the day. On those days, he seemed to be in a bit of a tizzy when I'd come home.

 

[Imzadi]

The behavior he has isn't unpredictable, there are definite triggers (people walking by outside, strange noises outside, the mailman delivering the mail, the neighbor's dog barking, etc).

I was about to say the same thing. You mentioned certain incidences that set him off. Not that you were watching TV & for no apparent reason he went into a fit.

I've had him on his leash most of the afternoon by my side so that I can get to him quickly to correct any bad behaviors. He gets very mellow when he's on his leash. I think we can beat this, it's just going to take time. Unfortunately with my husband overseas it's all going to fall on me, so I'm going to have to be patient with him as well.

Has he been gone more in the last 6 months? Maybe your dog thinks DH is the Alpha dog. With him gone, your dog doesn't know who is the new Alpha Dog while he's away and that's been making him anxious.

As I stated above, Sophie, the dog, accepted BOTH Cesar & Oprah as the Alpha dogs and minded them both once Oprah was trained.

 

[disneynutt1225]

Has he been gone more in the last 6 months? Maybe your dog thinks DH is the Alpha dog. With him gone, your dog doesn't know who is the new Alpha Dog while he's away and that's been making him anxious.

As I stated above, Sophie, the dog, accepted BOTH Cesar & Oprah as the Alpha dogs and minded them both once Oprah was trained.

Hubby left 2 months ago. I wish it was that easy! LOL. I'm going to have to check out the Cesar Milan book from the library.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

What kind of dog is this? Can you identify breeds in him?

 

[DMickey28]

Chris,

We have a somewhat similar situation with our dog. He is does not lash out or get aggressive in the same situations. He get's aggressive when he is scared. Somewhere, somehow trust was broken with him and we are working very very hard to big that back while maintaining the Alpha dog place in the house. We have moved every year since he was a puppy and I think the last move to a highrise apartment from a house took a toll on him. It is when the behavior started. He freaks (growing, showing teeth, snipping etc.) when you try to pick him up, clip his nails, clean his ears and give him a bath. We have to muzzle him for the bath, we don't pick him up or let anyone come to him that way. His nails only get done at the vet now and they have a hard time with it.

Since we have moved into our new place with more outdoor space and I am home all day now he is getting much better. He NEVER used to cuddle at night on the couch. Now he is a couch potato at night when we are watching TV. Last night he let me pet his paws and play with his nails without getting nervous. He still startles and barks when you poke him from behind (By accident if he is laying at the end of the bed/couch and you move your foot) but he's getting better.

We have a 5 month old son and are very careful with him and dog. I play on the ground with the baby and make sure to play with the dog at the same time. It seems to be working. I have also started giving him more exercise. We go for a long walk in the morning with the stoller. I also just found a free dog park down the highway. I am going to go there this week with the baby and the dog to check it out. I think those things will make a huge difference.

I agree, you need consistancy. Start doing everything the last behaviorist taught you. Start looking for a new one. We have talked to one through our vet, but he hasn't gotten back to me in a while. I need to call the vet for a new recommendation on a trainer!!

Definitely get a new mailbox outside. #1. Shouldn't be a big deal to your parents, just make sure you grab the mail every evening when you get home from work!

Good Luck ... I love our puppy and I would hate to have to find him a new home, however obviously our baby and safety come first.

 

[disneynutt1225]

What kind of dog is this? Can you identify breeds in him?

He is 100% Beagle.

I agree, you need consistancy. Start doing everything the last behaviorist taught you. Start looking for a new one. We have talked to one through our vet, but he hasn't gotten back to me in a while. I need to call the vet for a new recommendation on a trainer!!

Definitely get a new mailbox outside. #1. Shouldn't be a big deal to your parents, just make sure you grab the mail every evening when you get home from work!

Good Luck ... I love our puppy and I would hate to have to find him a new home, however obviously our baby and safety come first.

I'm so glad I'm not alone!! It's so hard sometimes. Good luck with your puppy too!

 

[DMickey28]

Definitely check out the Cesear Milan books .. you can also buy his video's online. Do you get the cable? I think he is on either Discovery or National Geographic ... the show is great. He really works with you, you need to mentally take control. I have tried different things he has done with our dog and it does work. If I don't think about clipping his nails and not worry about it when I approach him. It works a lot better!!