Mulan Is Back

[2poohbears]

Mulan - I still think you should listen to your attorney. Your letter, as well as the letter from the attorney indicate to DAMM that you will not be there on July 4th, because of this recent turn of events (him not showing to pick them up for the 5 weeks, and then keeping them for a week without discussing this with you). It also indicates that you are going to court to have the visitation spelled out. If there was any other way to communicate with him, you would have done so. I think it's better for the kiddos to be in your care instead of DAMM's care when all this occurs. Your lawyer knows that court system, and your situation better than any of us. If you have confidence in your lawyer, then listen to her advice. JMO.


Also - my understanding is that the lawyer is filing a motion of contempt of court on FRI, the same day Mulan is to mail the letter & get her kids back.

 

[livie1205]

The reason I would not wait until the kids are back in her care BEFORE filing is what if he does not return them anyway? then she would have waited longer...If he has a history of not returning them and that is what he did then why would it matter if she waits or has him served now ? and if she has him served now and he still does not return them he still has to show up for the emerg hearing and explain why.I would not wait ...and if this judge is really one sided (good ol boy) file a complaint.We live in a small town and that does not excuse that kind of behavior from the court and this has been going on for a long time, way past time to have it settled..the right way.The only people that this is hurting are these kids.I have read this story from the start and they both tend to nit pick alot...everything does not have to be a fight.
I dont like it when my son is with his father but I can go without talking to him for a day or two, it is not worth a fight over phone calls and my ex would just not do it to make me mad so I dont let him to that to me. If he wants to be stupid and keep them for a week say ok and take some time for yourself, relax have your lawyer file for you and read a book by a pool somewhere... I do understand I have a ex like this one but I will not let him make me unhappy for the rest of my life..

 

[kt_mom]

Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to tell Mulan not to listen to her lawyer. But just to discuss it further with her and get a full understanding of what the consequence of withholding this visitation could be. I'm just afraid it may backfire on her, letter or no letter. I don't see that a letter from her attorney overrides the court orders.

I understand the need to have these children safe in her county. But they will have to go back to him for visitation at some point and he can pull this same stunt then. Only then there is no emergency hearing set up for a few days later and he could keep them even longer waiting for another emergency hearing.

I just hate to see you open yourself up to more trouble from them and risk hurting your case. Please just discuss it further with your attorney and make sure that you are fully aware of all the possible consequences.

 

[DisneyBrat]

I would NOT suggest this to anyone...they were taking a chance at tricking him into giving him back, the cops can not get involved in a family law matter...they can ask that he give them back but if he refused they can not make him...dh is a cop and deals with this all the time,he has had many calls where someone did not want to turn over kids and even though he wanted to help...his hands were tied.We have had to deal with this even in our family with my ex who is very much like her ex....and he can not do a thing, we have to call a lawyer...the one thing I would say is GET A NEW LAWYER ....you should NOT have to wait that long for a emer. hearing.

I think the reason the police stepped in is because my ex was so mouthy and rude to them. One point he was almost nose to nose with an officer and he told him if he didn't step back and lower his tone he was going to arrest him. Somewhere in the hoopla an officer told me that the only reason is they didn't want to arrest my sons father in front of him. They had to request I believe it was their sargent or a lieut. to come and help clarify. I had very specific court orders about visitation and my papers read I had sole and physical custody. The higher up officer said this matter would be settled immediately or else they were taking my son into protective custody. Which was the best I honestly thought rather than him dealing the rest of the night with his beligerant father. My son is now just opening up to me about how every other weekend at his dad was a nightmare. Verbal bashing of me and the hatred that flowed. My son held that in for 18 years and when he didn't have to take it no more he cut all ties. I have talked to my son to see if he is prepared to accept the what if something happens to his father and he hasn't talked to him. This point in his life he's NOT ready to talk and doesn't ever want to go back there. My ex knows our address so he could send him a letter,card or even stop by but nothing for almost 3 yrs now except 2 letters... One letter asking why my son was so mad at him. Second to deny all the things my son sent in reply back to his first letter. I don't suggest anyone else do what I did... I knew my ex and I knew how to push to get back my son. My ex did not want to go to jail and he knew I was serious when I called the police to his home and was on the street in front of his house to get my son back.... Mulan I so wish you many prayers and best wishes. Its tough so tie a knot and hang on!!!! 2 Cor 12:8 -9 my life verses when I was going through tough times and God really spoke to my heart with these scriptures.

 

[robinb]

Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to tell Mulan not to listen to her lawyer. But just to discuss it further with her and get a full understanding of what the consequence of withholding this visitation could be. I'm just afraid it may backfire on her, letter or no letter. I don't see that a letter from her attorney overrides the court orders.

I understand the need to have these children safe in her county. But they will have to go back to him for visitation at some point and he can pull this same stunt then. Only then there is no emergency hearing set up for a few days later and he could keep them even longer waiting for another emergency hearing.

I just hate to see you open yourself up to more trouble from them and risk hurting your case. Please just discuss it further with your attorney and make sure that you are fully aware of all the possible consequences.

I totally agree with everything that you wrote. I am also still trying to understand how keeping the kids on the 4th after allowing DAMM his last weekend visitation will be to Mulan's (and the kid's) advantage. JTB has a very short memory and will pounce on Mulan's more recent transgression and forgive DAMM's same previous transgression. If DAMM keeps the kids on July 4th weekend then Mulan has a pattern. If she keeps them it's tit-for-tat.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

My guess is Mulan's lawyer wants to make sure the kids are in Mulan's physical custody when they go to court next month. Since JTB seems to rule however the mood strikes him on any given day it is very hard to predict what will happen when they go to court on the 14th. I am assuming that if things don't go Mulan's way it is better for the kids to be in the good county when it happens. I am not a lawyer so this is all speculation on my part.

Mulan you and your kids will be in my thoughts.

you got it

The reason I would not wait until the kids are back in her care BEFORE filing is what if he does not return them anyway? then she would have waited longer...If he has a history of not returning them and that is what he did then why would it matter if she waits or has him served now ? and if she has him served now and he still does not return them he still has to show up for the emerg hearing and explain why.I would not wait ...and if this judge is really one sided (good ol boy) file a complaint.We live in a small town and that does not excuse that kind of behavior from the court and this has been going on for a long time, way past time to have it settled..the right way.The only people that this is hurting are these kids.I have read this story from the start and they both tend to nit pick alot...everything does not have to be a fight.
I dont like it when my son is with his father but I can go without talking to him for a day or two, it is not worth a fight over phone calls and my ex would just not do it to make me mad so I dont let him to that to me. If he wants to be stupid and keep them for a week say ok and take some time for yourself, relax have your lawyer file for you and read a book by a pool somewhere... I do understand I have a ex like this one but I will not let him make me unhappy for the rest of my life..

If DAMM knows about the court date I can guarentee he WILL NOT return the kids. JTB surprisingly knows things that DAMM has done in the past and gets angered but then DAMMs cronies tell the judge lies about me- all in the past but the judge believes that we are both equally at fault.
In JTB past speeches (sometimes in court he gets so upset that he tells everyone to listen up, and he apoligizes that his job is so hard, and he has to make difficult decisions and he gets ridiculed for them) he has brought up actions that DAMM has done- 'throwing screws and nails in a gravel road so his ex gets flat tires, smashing mailboxes- those actions just disgust me' is what he says. And it really surprises the heck out of me that he knows these things yet won't hold DAMM accountable- maybe because whenever I tried to file a police report the co S.O. would say "If you didn't see him do it then theres nothing we can do" So DAMM has NEVER been held responsible for ANYTHING WRONG he has ever done to me (physically) or my property until I left that county. It wasn't till I moved to co that DAMM was held accountable for things- that's why I have been trying so hard for so long to get this case transferred.

PS: I still haven't heard from or spoken to my children!

Mulan

 

[daisy2]

I'm so sorry Mulan you are going through this. I am saying a prayer for you and your children and for them to come home safely to you. Keep your chin up your do the best you can. What does not break you makes you stronger.

 

[terri01p]

This is totally off topic and I'll admit that I have read the threads every now and again, it's very painfully ,a very hard read ,but every once in a while I'll jump over to caught an update.

Here's what was on my mind, can you not give your kids a hidden cell phone to call you whenever everyone is asleep, just to let you know that every thing is ok with them, no long conversations just " mom it's me we are ok ", now I don't even know the ages of your children so I don't know if this is even possible, so if it's not just disregard, but to me if I had children I were constantly worried over, I would tell them take this cell phone put it in your backpack call me whenever your put to bed and then turn it off soon as we are thru talking and put it back in your bookbag for no one to see.

Just thinking out loud, that sure could give peace of mind to you...I may be totally off the mark but I use to do this whenever my dd spent the night off, just for my peace of mind and it always worked fine.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

I totally agree with everything that you wrote. I am also still trying to understand how keeping the kids on the 4th after allowing DAMM his last weekend visitation will be to Mulan's (and the kid's) advantage. JTB has a very short memory and will pounce on Mulan's more recent transgression and forgive DAMM's same previous transgression. If DAMM keeps the kids on July 4th weekend then Mulan has a pattern. If she keeps them it's tit-for-tat.

I am still trying to weigh this out- my atty says she will tell JTB that the July 4th was at her most highest reccomndation. Its also to show that since DAMM has cut off communication the only way I have left is the USPS, hence the letters, and lastly she knows as well as I do that IF I give him the kids July 4th, he would know about the court date and keep them till at least the 14th- its not in the best interest of the children or for me to have the kids anywhere near co on July 14th- If JTB throws me in jail, so be it, the kids are safe. My lawyer will be there, and I can bet DAMM will not have his lawyer there. He will attempt to wing it himself like I did back in Feb. (The last time I saw DAMM in co court with an atty was in Oct/Nov when we brought up the physical abuse against the children).
And as far as court in co, he only had a lawyer twice for the phone harrassment/terroristic threatening charges- and we had went to court at least 6 times before I got the conviction.

This is totally off topic and I'll admit that I have read the threads every now and again, it's very painfully ,a very hard read ,but every once in a while I'll jump over to caught an update.

Here's what was on my mind, can you not give your kids a hidden cell phone to call you whenever everyone is asleep, just to let you know that every thing is ok with them, no long conversations just " mom it's me we are ok ", now I don't even know the ages of your children so I don't know if this is even possible, so if it's not just disregard, but to me if I had children I were constantly worried over, I would tell them take this cell phone put it in your backpack call me whenever your put to bed and then turn it off soon as we are thru talking and put it back in your bookbag for no one to see.

Just thinking out loud, that sure could give peace of mind to you...I may be totally off the mark but I use to do this whenever my dd spent the night off, just for my peace of mind and it always worked fine.

My children are 4 and 6. They know how to use a cell phone, however they don't understand how to turn it off (to save the battery) or plug it in. They don't understand about 'signal'. I have taught them in preparation for the 5 weeks and told them to try to keep it hidden from DAMM and to use it as an emergency if needed. DAMM has taken away 2 different cell phones from them over the last year or so. We have even brought it up in court to JTB- he reminded DAMM that its the kids property, not his and ordered that the phone or the charger or the battery be returned ASAP.
Now his excuse is- the cell phone doesn't work in his 'trailer' because of all the metal- probably true, but theres always a certain place in the trailer that gets signal....
I am thinking about maybe buying each of them a microchip GPS locator and installing it in thier shoes!

Mulan

 

[barkley]

i don't know about in their shoes, but if you could find one small enuf you could might put it into a build a bear and make sure the kiddos bond with it such that they will take it everywhere (even if they left it in a car you could still get the general vacinity). i saw something on dateline or one of those shows in the last year or so where some whack-job was stalking his ex and noone could figure out how he managed to know where she was 24/7-come to find out he slipped a small gps chip into her vehical and used some kind of easily available software to access the data minute by minute via his home p.c.-so the technology is out there.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

i don't know about in their shoes, but if you could find one small enuf you could might put it into a build a bear and make sure the kiddos bond with it such that they will take it everywhere (even if they left it in a car you could still get the general vacinity). i saw something on dateline or one of those shows in the last year or so where some whack-job was stalking his ex and noone could figure out how he managed to know where she was 24/7-come to find out he slipped a small gps chip into her vehical and used some kind of easily available software to access the data minute by minute via his home p.c.-so the technology is out there.

HMMM....I have done Build a Bear and DAMM kept DS favorite dog, even when DS cries wanting to bring it home with him DAMM tells him no- some kind of stick hostage thing with their fav toys.
Mulan

 

[robinb]

I am still trying to weigh this out- my atty says she will tell JTB that the July 4th was at her most highest reccomndation. Its also to show that since DAMM has cut off communication the only way I have left is the USPS, hence the letters, and lastly she knows as well as I do that IF I give him the kids July 4th, he would know about the court date and keep them till at least the 14th- its not in the best interest of the children or for me to have the kids anywhere near co on July 14th- If JTB throws me in jail, so be it, the kids are safe. My lawyer will be there, and I can bet DAMM will not have his lawyer there. He will attempt to wing it himself like I did back in Feb. (The last time I saw DAMM in co court with an atty was in Oct/Nov when we brought up the physical abuse against the children).
And as far as court in co, he only had a lawyer twice for the phone harrassment/terroristic threatening charges- and we had went to court at least 6 times before I got the conviction.

First of all ... know that I am sending out good thoughts to you and your children and trying to send 'em to JBT too .

I totally understand about sending letters. I'm 100% behind that although I wish that it would only be your lawyer and not you. You can show that you are still trying to keep the communication lines open through your lawyer without setting yourself up for DAMM lying about what you have said to him and what you have not said to him. But if your lawyer, who knows JBT the best, says that letters from you personally will make you look better in his eyes, then by all means do it!

I know that I might be beating a dead horse over this but I still don't "get it" about skipping the next scheduled visitation. I think that you are letting your short term goals of keeping your kids with you over the summer override what should be your long term goals.

I think those long term goals are threefold: (1) Proving that you are a mature, caring and cooperative parent whose primary interest is her children, (2) Proving DAMM to be the liar, manipulator and abuser he really is and (3) If that can't be done setting up a drama and stress free visitation schedule set in stone. I don't see how keeping the kids on that weekend furthers any of those long term goals. In fact, it will set those goals back! You will look like someone set on revenge and DAMM will play the victim again. You KNOW how much JBT loves the father-victim figure.

OTOH, if you send the kids you will look to be acting in the best interest of your kids. If DAMM keeps them after your letter spelling out visitation then he looks like a manipulator. He is the one who looks uncooperative. He is the one who is increasing the stress on the kids and putting his need to hurt you before the needs of his children.

Mulan, give DAMM the rope to hang himself.

You were ready to allow your kids to go with him for 5 weeks straight (as per the agreement). Allow them to go with him for the July 4th weekend and if DAMM keeps the kids until 7/14 all the better for you! As for being thrown in jail, I think that's a red herring. I don't see how you would be thrown in jail unless you thumb your nose at DAMM and JTB by denying DAMM visitation on the 4/4 weekend.

After saying "Listen to your lawyer!" again and again I feel bad second guessing her. She may say that it was her advise to keep the kids that weekend, but in the end you are responsible for your own actions. Please think about what you really want out of the next hearing long-term and communicate that to your lawyer and then ask her if keeping the kids will really help those goals. If she says "yes" then I will bite my tongue for the next 2 1/2 weeks.

One more thing ... don't count on DAMM to not to re-hire his attorney for this hearing. He's not stupid.

 

[BlondeAlligator]

I am thinking about maybe buying each of them a microchip GPS locator and installing it in thier shoes!

childlocator.com
Whereify GPS watch for kids

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

First of all ... know that I am sending out good thoughts to you and your children and trying to send 'em to JBT too .

I totally understand about sending letters. I'm 100% behind that although I wish that it would only be your lawyer and not you. You can show that you are still trying to keep the communication lines open through your lawyer without setting yourself up for DAMM lying about what you have said to him and what you have not said to him. But if your lawyer, who knows JBT the best, says that letters from you personally will make you look better in his eyes, then by all means do it!

I know that I might be beating a dead horse over this but I still don't "get it" about skipping the next scheduled visitation. I think that you are letting your short term goals of keeping your kids with you over the summer override what should be your long term goals.

I think those long term goals are threefold: (1) Proving that you are a mature, caring and cooperative parent whose primary interest is her children, (2) Proving DAMM to be the liar, manipulator and abuser he really is and (3) If that can't be done setting up a drama and stress free visitation schedule set in stone. I don't see how keeping the kids on that weekend furthers any of those long term goals. In fact, it will set those goals back! You will look like someone set on revenge and DAMM will play the victim again. You KNOW how much JBT loves the father-victim figure.

OTOH, if you send the kids you will look to be acting in the best interest of your kids. If DAMM keeps them after your letter spelling out visitation then he looks like a manipulator. He is the one who looks uncooperative. He is the one who is increasing the stress on the kids and putting his need to hurt you before the needs of his children.

Mulan, give DAMM the rope to hang himself.

You were ready to allow your kids to go with him for 5 weeks straight (as per the agreement). Allow them to go with him for the July 4th weekend and if DAMM keeps the kids until 7/14 all the better for you! As for being thrown in jail, I think that's a red herring. I don't see how you would be thrown in jail unless you thumb your nose at DAMM and JTB by denying DAMM visitation on the 4/4 weekend.

After saying "Listen to your lawyer!" again and again I feel bad second guessing her. She may say that it was her advise to keep the kids that weekend, but in the end you are responsible for your own actions. Please think about what you really want out of the next hearing long-term and communicate that to your lawyer and then ask her if keeping the kids will really help those goals. If she says "yes" then I will bite my tongue for the next 2 1/2 weeks.

One more thing ... don't count on DAMM to not to re-hire his attorney for this hearing. He's not stupid.

I hear you! And I am second guessing atty #1. Although, I do see her point. I have asked Atty #2 in co her opinion on the whole skip the visitation or not. I'll wait and see what she thinks....
I do believe that atty #1 if she has advised me not to send the children and I listen to her- JTB will not hold me responsible. I hope

BlondeAlligator thanks
Mulan

 

[Tiggerish]

I know that it is hard but try not to "over think" your attorney's advice. You will drive yourself crazy.

If I remember correctly, his visitation for this time period was the 5 weeks that he forfeited so technically you are not skipping his visitation. The fact that you did send them last weekend shows you are going the extra mile not that you consented to his unilateral decision to keep them after the weekend was over.

It maybe that sending them for another weekend in the face of his holding them over will be taken as a signal that you are agreeing to his every other week plan instead of the forfiet of his time the prior order sets out.

 

[kt_mom]

I agree with Robinb. I think you are only hurting your long term goals by denying the visitaion on the 4th. And possibly opening yourself up to more trouble from JTB. You have to think long term.

This is obviously not like a normal judge that weighs the case according to the merits. But rather a judge that will jump on the chance to have a reason to turn it against you and overlook his buddy's transgressions.

I just don't see the benefit long term in denying the visitation. I know that him keeping the kids until the 14th would be extremely difficult, but I think its a risk you are going to have to take for their long term safety and happiness.

Discuss it with your attorney, but remember that you are the one that will be held responsible in the end. I'm also skeptical of any attorney that would openly advise their client to disregard court orders. Because you really don't have a legitimate reason to disregard them in the courts eyes. He's going to say that you agreed to the week visitation and there is going to be nothing to say that you didn't and unfortunately that judge is going to believe him. Then its going to look really bad that you denied the next visitation.

It's great that you asked the opinion of both lawyers. See what the other one says and then think on it long and hard.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

I just emailed Atty #1: Also, letting her know that I have my doubts. But what if I do send DAMM that letter, but in it I state that due to the traffic and holiday festivities I will have the kids at the 1/2 way point on Thurs July 3 @6pm and he is to return them to me on Sun July 6th at 6pm and that he needs to confirm this via email by July 2nd, no later....hopefully he will NOT read the letter and/ or confirm, then when we go back before JTB I not only have 1. a letter, but 2. no email confirmation and 3. williness to give DAMM his visit but no way of communication
Mulan

 

[robinb]

I just emailed Atty #1: Also, letting her know that I have my doubts. But what if I do send DAMM that letter, but in it I state that due to the traffic and holiday festivities I will have the kids at the 1/2 way point on Thurs July 3 @6pm and he is to return them to me on Sun July 6th at 6pm and that he needs to confirm this via email by July 2nd, no later....hopefully he will NOT read the letter and/ or confirm, then when we go back before JTB I not only have 1. a letter, but 2. no email confirmation and 3. williness to give DAMM his visit but no way of communication
Mulan

You're trying to change the visitation schedule again and give him power to be able to say "no" and know that he's pissed you off. If you're going to drop them off then you need to do it at the designated time. Sorry .

 

[kt_mom]

I just emailed Atty #1: Also, letting her know that I have my doubts. But what if I do send DAMM that letter, but in it I state that due to the traffic and holiday festivities I will have the kids at the 1/2 way point on Thurs July 3 @6pm and he is to return them to me on Sun July 6th at 6pm and that he needs to confirm this via email by July 2nd, no later....hopefully he will NOT read the letter and/ or confirm, then when we go back before JTB I not only have 1. a letter, but 2. no email confirmation and 3. williness to give DAMM his visit but no way of communication
Mulan

I don't think you should play games and that seems like a game to me and it could always backfire on you. This is not a game. You need to follow the court orders. They say every other weekend and don't they say Friday to Sunday?

You can't just switch it up like that and hope to trap him. I think the judge will see through it. You need to follow the court orders and meet him at the half way point on Friday night. Otherwise you are opening him up to the same thing. He will send you a letter at the last minute that you won't get in time saying that because of traffic and such that he will meet you on Monday night.

You have to stop playing these games. Just because he does it doesn't mean you should. Follow the court papers. That will get you more favor with the judge then playing games will.

 

[Disneychix]

I"m confused now. Why do you think you will go to jail at the 7/14 hearing? I know you've gone to jail for no reason before but if you follow the same rules as last time where you sat quietly and let your lawyer (and DAMM) do all the talking what has happened that you would go to jail over? DAMM did not show up for the 5 week summer visitation and you returned to the EOW schedule. DAMM is not allowing court ordered phone time with your children. What did YOU do wrong?