More WDI Gloom

[Another Voice]

Actually, the Shopping Center at Crossroads was a Disney created, developed and managed project. It was the company’s attempt to “maximize their return” on that bizarre little spot of land after efforts to acquire the adjoining plots were stopped. Had some of the additional land been purchased, that area was supposed to be a joint Disney-Marriott time-share development.

The Disney Village Marketplace started life for two reasons. First, it was supposed to be an upscale dining and retail place for local residents to drop some cash at Disney. It was also supposed to be the town center for the vacation home development that evolved into The Disney Village Resort (which mutated into The Disney Institute before that concept underwent a mercy killing). The Marketplace had always been kept at an arm’s length from the rest of WDW to maintain its more upscale resort, less touristy feel. The thought was that not every visitor wanted 100% Mouse, 100% of the time.

I do have one question though. There have been a lot of threads about how WDW is an escape from reality, how its more “magical” than the everyday world. How do ripping out the unique shops and restaurants that used to inhabit The Village, and replacing them with chain stores and restaurants found in malls throughout the country enhance “the magic”. To me, the place is nothing but a tourist development overwrought with neon McDonald’s signs, more places shoving Pooh merchandise out the door, and all to the background soundtrack of “Myers, safari of four – your table’s ready”.

In any case, thanks the changes at WDI we will won't be seeing the likes of the Village or of Pleasure Island again. I just hope people enjoy the magic when the parks start to look just like the West Side and the golden arches overlook the fountain at Epcot.

 

[DisDuck]

AV most of your posts have been very enlightening and sometimes entertaining but in some ways you are like DVC, your view of magic is the only view. I like Downtown better now than when it was the Village. You liked the quaint shops and stuff, I don't so it had little attraction to me and I have only been to the Village 2 (maybe 3) times before it disappeared. Now I go to Downtown on every trip.

Why are my views of magic wrong and your's right? Since I consider magic to be subjective, we are both right.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

How do ripping out the unique shops and restaurants that used to inhabit The Village, and replacing them with chain stores and restaurants found in malls throughout the country enhance "the magic".

I couldn't agree more!! I know that Mr. Duck doesn't necessarily either understand what we're talking about or it doesn't matter to him. And I respect his opinion. But I don't understand it for a second. And I really do try.

However, I look at Downtown Disney and see the Woodfield Mall or Old Orchard (for those familiar with the Chicagoland area). Or pick any modern mega-mall in the country. The one in Minneapolis is supposed to be even better. But what does that have to do with Disney?!?! I can get a Rainforest anywhere. I can only get a Chef Mickey's at Disney!! That's special! I can get a Fulton's (or the like) many other places in the country. I could only get an Empress Lilly's at Disney (I might add, the only place that used to feature Donald Duck at a character's breakfast). That's what made it distinct! That's what made it unique! That's what made it Disney!!

Dis, don't they have a shopping mall like that in Wayne, NJ? Or at least nearby? I see very little difference between the malls I'm talking about and Downtown Disney. And when I visit Disney, I want to see a difference. That's the appeal. That's why I go there!!

Don't you see, that an old astro-burger from the old Tomorrowland Terrace could be the worst tasting thing in the world, but I'd still prefer that to a McDonalds? Just because it was a one of a kind! You had to be in WDW to get it! McDonalds can be had at any off-ramp on the interstate and every four blocks in the city! Why would I want that in WDW!?!? Now, I might support the argument that they should improve the taste of the astro-burger, but I can't agree they should replace it with a Big-Mac!! That's the easy way out. That's the un-Disney way out!!

So, I would support your not caring for the Market Place as it stood. And I would further support that Disney should have found the maximum appeal for their guests. But (and here's where we differ) But, not at the expense of originality and uniqueness! Two vital element of the SHOW! They took the easy way out. Again. They copied what works in other cities to maximize profits. And in doing so diminished the SHOW!! I would rather have NOTHING there, than a bland, everyday, parochial shopping mall that offers nothing unique and everything the same as Everywhere USA!!

So, you're not wrong. Not at all!! You just let them off the hook, way too easy!!

 

[YoHo]

, I look at Downtown Disney and see the Woodfield Mall or Old Orchard (for those familiar with the Chicagoland area).

I agree that this is the feeling I get at DTD, However, there are some mitigating factors.


1: You like Myself are spoiled, you even made assertions that you could have that expireance anywhere, at any mall in the country. Absolutly False. Rain Forest Cafe did put up too many locations (Why WDW needs two is still confusing to me) across the US, But we in Chicago are spoiled with our 3 (soon to be 2 as the Downtown one Does a fraction of the buisness Woodfield and Gurnee Mills) Game Works is not everywhere. Woodfield Mall is the Second Largest Mall in the US and Has the most retail space of Any Mall in the US. (Mall of America uses a lot of its space for rides) To suggest that its shopping expirence is similar to anwhere else in the country is rather foolish.

Old Orchard and Oak brook are less Unique, but they also have less of what we're talking about.

Face it, Living in Chicago gives us little right to declare the norm for the country as there are only about 8 Million of us spread about the 7-8 counties that Chicagoland consists of.

2: Disney did it first or near first. Woodfield's (and Schaumburg in general) current state is an extremely recent thing.
3:Its something people want. Not that that is an excuse for Disney to do it, but The shopping expireance that DTD provides is a big Draw otherwise there would be no Mall of America and Vegas would still be Gambling and Strip Clubs exclusivly.

4: even some of the unique shops that remain such as the Christmas store and such are rather mundane for a worldly Chicagoan. I could take a 6 hour trip to Door County Wisconsin and see all sorts of quaint stores including many Christmas stores and spend a lot less doing it. And unlike the above, a lot more people have access to this type of place on a yearly basis.



So, I understand your objections, but I suspect your opinions are clouded by your good fortune in living in the great city of Chicago.

 

[Another Voice]

A couple of quick comments –

Mr. Duck – I really dislike the term “magic” because it is so very subjective. And I never claimed to have the only “correct” opinion, or even that I liked to old Village. In most ways, lunch in the old Village was like spending a weekend playing bridge with friends of grandparents. But it was different from what the rest of WDW and Orlando offered at the time. It was sometimes, just sometimes, pleasant enough to sit down at a place that tried to be a real restaurant and not a themed building that happened to serve food.

I find it interesting that some people have found making a place less Disney has somehow enhanced it’s “Disney magic”. I still find the Downtown development interesting – just like I enjoy the seven or eight similar developments within an hour’s drive of my home. Take away the name and move it off property and I wonder what the reaction would be like (oops, they did and called it CityWalk.)

I also think there’s a big difference between “unique” and “rare”. Yes, I will readily admit that I live and work in a part of the country that’s spoiled rotten beyond belief. But to me, unique still means it’s one-of-a-kind, not that it’s more than a six hour drive. I looked to WDW to provide me with experiences that I couldn’t get anywhere else. And to me, a shopping mall anchored by a Virgin Megastore and Wolfgang Puck just lacks….okay, I’ll say it –

The place lacks imagination.

That’s what Walt Disney Imagineering could bring to a project like Pleasure Island and what Disney Development Corp. didn’t bring into Downtown Disney. Nothing in the Downtown redevelopment work even attempted to be as truly unique as The Adventurer’s Club or even as creative as the old Fireworks Factory. Okay, yea, the backstory to P.I. was much too complicated and most of it’s been trashed now – but the place tried to be different, truly one-of-a-kind. And while there were some failures along with the success, I’d rather see WDW try to create rather than just collect rent from tenants.

Without WDI, we may be facing a future where WDW is dominated by the ideas from McDonald’s, The Gap, Nike, Starbucks – and not ideas from Disney.

 

[Missin' Walt]

A parable:

The apartment complex parking lot was being broken into on a regular basis and the residents' cars were being damaged. At the annual budget meeting the committee voted to hire a security guard for the parking lot. Within 30 days there was no more damage to the cars and everyone was happy. At the following year's annual budget meeting, an ambitious committee member - his name was Paul something or other - figured out a way to save a few dollars in the budget. "Let's fire the security guard in the parking lot - after all no one's car ever gets damaged there"!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Missin' Walt!!! Let me be the first to welcome you!! There may be those who disagree, and it is a little early to tell for sure, but I think you may border on the genius!! What a parable!!! It fits perfectly!

Hmmm. Registered in October. Only five posts. First one on the Rumor & News Board!! And what a post! Keep it up, Mr. Walt. Keep it up!!!

 

[JeffH]

..."replacing them with chain stores and restaurants found in malls throughout the country..."
In my part of the country, we've never seen the likes of ANY of the 'chain' stores at Downtown Disney (except McDonalds, which I agree shouldn't take up room inside WDW, except selling fries), so Downtown Disney is a very magical place for us.
The quality theatres,
Planet Hollywood (an amazing experience),
Ghiardelli's ice cream shop,
The giant World of Disney,
The Rainforest Cafe,
and quaint little shops (the Christmas shop, the learning shop...)
the little boat ride between the East and West sides
and we haven't even yet experienced Lanuba or DisneyQuest

WDW has NEVER been better...this is the Golden Age of WDW, so much to do and so little time to do it.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

In my part of the country, we've never seen the likes of ANY of the 'chain' stores at Downtown Disney

Jeeze Jeff. You gotta get out more. Maybe set your sites on New York or Chicago for a vacation instead of WDW all the time. These things are all over the place!!

WDW has NEVER been better...this is the Golden Age of WDW, so much to do and so little time to do it.

I disagree!!

 

[Baileymouse]

I live very close to NYC and my family goes in all the time (it's a quick PATH ride) so we are used to the Downtown Disney-type stuff. HOWEVER the two people in my family who clamor to go to DD the most are my 15 yo son and my 58 yo Mom. The son loves DD - the lights, the stores, the movie theaters, everything! He likes the glitz, he likes the hugeness of it. He loves PH and he loves Disney Quest. For him, going to a place like DD is magical. I've asked him why he likes it since he's in Manhattan so much and he says he just does.

Mom prefers the village stores like the bookstore, the Gourmet Pantry and the little clothing boutiques. She prefers that side. Both of them hate WOD. (Interestingly enough Mom likes City Walk)

I think it's demographics. In NYC you used to have lovely shops in SoHo that were unique, now there's a Gap and a Starbucks on every corner. As far as the kid is concerned, that's fine. It looks like they are marketing mostly to teens and twenty-somethings with mega disposable income. For someone who is 15 that is magical.

 

[JeffH]

I thought the world ended at Orlando (except for a small trail leading to/from Gatlinburg and the Great Smoky Mountains).
I heard that if we venture beyond the great Orlando that if we didn't get swallowed up by a sink hole we'd meet up with Godzilla
And if we strayed from the small trail to the GSM we'd get eaten by gators or worse yet swindled by landbarons

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

And if we strayed from the small trail to the GSM we'd get eaten by gators or worse yet swindled by landbarons

I tried to think of a cleaver witticism to follow this. BUT I COULDN'T!! Very good JeffH!!!

 

[JeffH]

I just took the Disney personality test and I rated a Cinderella...
http://disney.go.com/vacations/websites/100yom/secret/flash.html
secret password Walt

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thanks Jeff!!

I just took it too!

Jiminy Cricket for me!!!

 

[airlarry!]

Uh. Me, too. But Tinker Bell? Hmm....not what I expected.

Anyway, the test was fun.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Yuck! I nearly got sick over the "hype" created here!

Most posters are excited about the "100 year celebration," and can't wait to go back two or three times a year!!!!!?????!!!!!


WHO CREATED THAT?

 

[lrodk]

I rated an "Aladdin". Go figure.

 

[*Robin*]

I'm Jiminy Cricket too...but I knew I would be...

 

[DisDuck]

Took the test came out as Aladdin, hum?


By the way DVC, in Northern NJ are some of the largest Malls but none of them have a Dragon in the Water or sand-box to play in, etc. Yes, I miss the Empress Lilly but still love the DD more than the Village. In fact, RainForest at DD is somewhat unique as being outdoors instead of indoors (at a mall) its themeing is so much better.

 

[pigtail]

A wise man once said " all decision's make sense when viewed from the proper perpective". When speaking of layoffs and sad times and poor planning... one must realize that the people making these decisions are compensated based on short term goals. Disney has been riding the same wave of prosperity that has had the country in it's grips for a while now. All of a sudden the bubble bursts, reality sets in, and Disney has to cut costs as a method to try and stabilize their stock price. Disney is one of the most cash rich companies in the USA, however it is also one of the most debt laden companies around. From Mr Eisner's perspective, what makes more sense.... heavy cuts in high dollar salaries and wages (not to mention benefits) or building more parks and increasing the perks given to "guests" to insure future visits? One directly rewards him, the other benfits long range planning at the expense of short term gain. If you or I were in charge (and it remained strictly a business proposition instead of a passion), more than likely we would choose to increase our pockets with gobs of cash and leave the worryring about 10 years down the road to some other poor guy. For just once, use your "imagination", pretend you are the big greedy mouse after the big cheese and how would you proceed? When you think of it in these terms, everything Eisner does makes sense (from his perspective). Just my $.02