More for Less: A Theme Park Planning Strategy

[wisblue]

9am: Epcot rope drop
9am - 10:30am: Standby Test Track, standby Mission Space, standby Soarin' (they say it can be done).
10:30: Take Epcot bus to Hollywood Studios
11:30: FP Tower of Terror, single rider RnRC if less than 30 minutes
12:30: FP Toy Story Mania, standby TGMR if less than 15 minutes
1:30: FP Star Tours
2pm: Bus back to Epcot parking lot
3pm: Early dinner at Lighthouse Lobster Feast. I've seen mixed reviews on this place but I love seafood and you'd have to screw up unlimited lobster and crab before I'm disappointed. (16 minutes from Epcot, 14 minutes to USO).
6pm - 9pm: Diagon Alley for Escape from Gringotts, butterbeer, appetizers and a Hurricane at Pat O'briens at CityWalk.

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I don't know who "they" is but I know that we have done all 3 of those attractions at Epcot in a little more than an hour more than once. But, the key to doing it has been going to Soarin first, then riding TT using single rider, and then doing MS third. I think if you do Soarin third you might be looking at a pretty long wait there and that would make it tougher to finish all 3 before 10:30 or even 11. Even if there are short waits, both Test Track and MS can take a while because of the car design at TT and the various levels of preshow/training/warnings at MS.

On our trip in November we did Soarin, TT (single rider), MS, SE, and Nemo (including a few minutes to look at the dolphins) all before 11. We also stopped at Figment because we were on our way to the World Showcase, but it wasn't quite 11 yet. If you change the order and go through the car design at TT it will certainly take longer.

 

[Laketravis]

So your thread is titled: More for Less. So are you indeed getting more while spending less?...

Yes.

 

[Laketravis]

I don't know who "they" is but I know that we have done all 3 of those attractions at Epcot in a little more than an hour more than once. But, the key to doing it has been going to Soarin first, then riding TT using single rider, and then doing MS third. I think if you do Soarin third you might be looking at a pretty long wait there and that would make it tougher to finish all 3 before 10:30 or even 11. Even if there are short waits, both Test Track and MS can take a while because of the car design at TT and the various levels of preshow/training/warnings at MS.

On our trip in November we did Soarin, TT (single rider), MS, SE, and Nemo (including a few minutes to look at the dolphins) all before 11. We also stopped at Figment because we were on our way to the World Showcase, but it wasn't quite 11 yet. If you change the order and go through the car design at TT it will certainly take longer.

Thanks, I've switched the order to reflect your input.

 

[Laketravis]

Baseline: Week onsite at a Value resort, 7-day pass, Hopper, DDP.
Proposal: Week offsite at Rosen. Disney AP. Uni AP. Car Rental. Gas.

You can't be serious - you'd compare Rosen Shingle Creek to a Value?

Besides, I explained right there in the beginning that there are some aspects of this trip that skew it because they were already arranged before the value initiative began and that my trip in June will be a more accurate representation. Perhaps if you start over and read the original post it could be enlightening.

$100/day for food was your budget, however on two days you've definitely busted this cap, and on the other days you'd have to eat darn cheap to pull off $100 for a family of 3 eating at places like Chilis or Universal.

You really believe that? If so you could actually learn a thing or two from me.

You also think a "cap" is blown because a day or two went over the allotted daily average? I've already told you I really don't have time to provide these continued math lessons for you, but if the total meal spending over 7 days equals $700 then the budget hasn't been "busted".

You also assume this is the only trip of the year and that the AP costs aren't amortizable over additional trips. There are already several who have posted they'd like to be able to take additional trips if the total aggregate cost wasn't much more.

Are you trying to demonstrate a legit plan, or just snub Disney?

A "snub"? Is that a technical term for taking the carrot without following the stick? If a company devises a plan and invests a billion dollars or more to squeeze additional spending out of it's customers by motivating them with a few token incentives, how is it a "snub" to take advantage of those incentives without aiding the company in meeting it's corporate objectives?

Is there no end to your criticisms? If you don't like my thread and think you have a much smarter plan, that's great. I've suggested that you start your own and share your wisdom with everyone. Wouldn't that be more productive than asking me if I am "snubbing" Disney?

.

 

[WillAustin]

I believe that the point for Laketravis is his personal movement from spending thousands of dollars on each past WDW vacation to now still getting his WDW fix while doing a lot more outside of WDW, and for less money. For them, as for me, it's a huge change.

 

[Cormoran]

A "snub"? Is that a technical term for taking the carrot without following the stick? If a company devises a plan and invests a billion dollars or more to squeeze additional spending out of it's customers by motivating them with a few token incentives, how is it a "snub" to take advantage of those incentives without aiding the company in meeting it's corporate objectives?

this is how I feel about the Disney initiative over the past several years. I used to get excited when Disney made an announcement, because it was usually about a new attraction or show. But now it feels like all of Disney's announcements are about new revenue generating events: restaurants, DVC's, hard ticket parties, Run disney, to name just a few. Now when I hear an announcement, my first question is, how much is this going to cost?

 

[SeanTomorrow]

But now it feels like all of Disney's announcements are about new revenue generating events: restaurants, DVC's, hard ticket parties, Run disney, to name just a few. Now when I hear an announcement, my first question is, how much is this going to cost?

I know! They might as well rename it "The Walt Disney COMPANY" if they're just going to turn everything into a business these days...

 

[cakebaker]

I know! They might as well rename it "The Walt Disney COMPANY" if they're just going to turn everything into a business these days...

LOL!

That has always been the first question I ask when I see a new promotion. That Frozen Summer cost me a fortune! Curse them and their profit making ways!!!

 

[Shaden]

You've mentioned in the early posts, LT, that it took many iterations to get the fp+ times to be what you wanted. How has that continued to this point in your planning? Appx how long would you say it is taking to book the fps and get them to the times you want? Have certain parks been easier than others? Or more difficult?

I'm a left-handed logic-thinking kind of guy, so you can probably understand why I can't simply reserve 3 FP's without wondering what is going on in the background

And what I've noticed is a definite set of rules being applied even when just changing the time choice of one selection and looking at how it changed the time selections of the other two. For instance today with HS it seemed like there was no way it was going to give me TSMM at the time I wanted while keeping the three contiguous (in between ToT and ST for a counterclockwise touring pattern) until I pulled TSMM way out into the evening, set ToT for 11-noon and ST for 1-2 and only then was there a noon-1 choice for TSMM.

This little exercise took me probably 10 minutes, and I've found myself doing it for each day. While I've always been able to structure them in the order and times I wanted it took a little computer chess to accomplish that.

I had a very interesting experience while at WDW in May (Which I noted then in a mini-report), one of the only times a CM at a kiosk was helpful and not simply in my way or slowing me down. While at the kiosk searching for my next FP+, and doing what I had done a few times already: Allowing the machine to offer me something, rejecting, and asking again. The CM at the Machine actually told me to just keep doing it. If you don't like what you are offered at a kiosk initially, simply repeatedly reject and ask again. Or select one and immediately try to change it. Now, its pure speculation, but the CM at the kiosk said he did this for people on a regular basis and quite often would find what they wanted. In his opinion the system would often not offer someone a repeat of something, or another "tier 1" ride (even in parks without tiers) immediately if they already had ridden it/them. But after repeated requests it would often pop up. We actually had a little chat about whether this was something as simple as new availability (unused FPs going back into the queue or people cancelling FPs) or something beyond that. He speculated that it was indeed something beyond new availability but rather was the system attempting to steer decisions.

Take that for what its worth, but after this encounter I almost never accepted the first offer from a kiosk again, and had much better luck with the 4th FP and beyond.

 

[SeilerBird]

Google Directions says 15 minutes. I tend to drive faster than Google Directions uses for an average and could probably shave 20% of it's estimate

That is funny. Have you never driven in Orlando before? I doubt you can make it from the resort to MK in an hour. From the airport to the resort at least a half an hour. Orlando traffic is a nightmare.

 

[Laketravis]

That is funny. Have you never driven in Orlando before? I doubt you can make it from the resort to MK in an hour. From the airport to the resort at least a half an hour. Orlando traffic is a nightmare.

I have, and I also live and drive in Austin - I'll take Orlando traffic any day.

But thanks for the heads up - I'll definitely be testing those Google estimates, that's a big difference from the 19 minutes it says it takes to get from Rosen Shingle Creek to MK. Of course that's down I-4 and I've made it in less time than that before but I'm sure the time of day and/or day would make all the difference in the world.

 

[SeilerBird]

Well if you drive like a maniac and get from Rosen to the MK parking lot you still have to wait in line to get into the parking lot, then drive a few miles inside the parking lot in a long line of cars until you are parked. Then get to the shuttle, wait for the shuttle, board the shuttle, ride the shuttle then go to the Monorail or steamship and wait for it to depart and then when you finally get to MK you move with the herd through the baggage check and then go through the turnstile. I live 25 miles from MK and I leave two hours before I want to arrive inside the gate. The drive alone is usually an hour and 15 minutes.

 

[Planogirl]

LOL!

That has always been the first question I ask when I see a new promotion. That Frozen Summer cost me a fortune! Curse them and their profit making ways!!!

No one is saying that they shouldn't make profit. But maybe they could do something that actually excites all of us and makes us want to spend money. No, Frozen doesn't excite everyone and I don't care if it is good for most people. When it comes to my vacation dollars, I only care about my family.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We landed at 9:30am (still on plane, but landed) and were fully checked in at Yacht Club by 11:30. We used Magical Express, though, so the trip from the airport to the hotel took quite some time with stops at other hotels first. Yacht was either the last stop, or 2nd to last stop. IT took us about 30 mins to get from YC to MK using Disney buses. I would think that using a rental car instead of ME would take a good bit of time off of that total. It'll be tight but it could be possible in 1 hr, 40 mins. 1 hr to get from airport to hotel, 40 mins from hotel to MK...not impossible, i don't think.

 

[Laketravis]

Well if you drive like a maniac and get from Rosen to the MK parking lot you still have to wait in line to get into the parking lot, then drive a few miles inside the parking lot in a long line of cars until you are parked. Then get to the shuttle, wait for the shuttle, board the shuttle, ride the shuttle then go to the Monorail or steamship and wait for it to depart and then when you finally get to MK you move with the herd through the baggage check and then go through the turnstile. I live 25 miles from MK and I leave two hours before I want to arrive inside the gate. The drive alone is usually an hour and 15 minutes.

We landed at 9:30am (still on plane, but landed) and were fully checked in at Yacht Club by 11:30. We used Magical Express, though, so the trip from the airport to the hotel took quite some time with stops at other hotels first. Yacht was either the last stop, or 2nd to last stop. IT took us about 30 mins to get from YC to MK using Disney buses. I would think that using a rental car instead of ME would take a good bit of time off of that total. It'll be tight but it could be possible in 1 hr, 40 mins. 1 hr to get from airport to hotel, 40 mins from hotel to MK...not impossible, i don't think.

Sounds like I might have to rethink that part - I've got a 40 minute cushion until the 2nd FP runs out at 10pm (I knew the first 8-9 one was sacrificial). Worse case is I get to MK during Wishes, only FP one attraction and see MSEP.


.

 

[cakebaker]

No one is saying that they shouldn't make profit. But maybe they could do something that actually excites all of us and makes us want to spend money. No, Frozen doesn't excite everyone and I don't care if it is good for most people. When it comes to my vacation dollars, I only care about my family.

Don't lump us with the Frozen mania crowd, I just have a grandson who loves Olaf and I live to cater to his every whim, so off we went. Then again, I use any excuse to get to WDW, so it works for me.

I would think everyone is primarily concerned with their own families and their vacations, but Disney does what appeals to the most people. I just find it funny that someone complains because what Disney offers always costs money.

 

[Laketravis]

I just find it funny that someone complains because what Disney offers always costs money.

Of course it costs money. But no one should complain regardless of the amount?

 

[cakebaker]

Of course it costs money. But no one should complain regardless of the amount?

The complaint wasn't how much they were charging- it's that they weren't announcing anything that was free or didn't cost more.

 

[MrInfinity]

You can't be serious - you'd compare Rosen Shingle Creek to a Value?

I didn't compare it to either. I gave you pricing for Value and Moderate, and asked which one you'd liken it to, so we could start adding up some costs. $243/week is about $35 a day, and according to tripadvisor, that equates your accommodations in price to the Econolodge and Motel 6.

You also think a "cap" is blown because a day or two went over the allotted daily average? I've already told you I really don't have time to provide these continued math lessons for you, but if the total meal spending over 7 days equals $700 then the budget hasn't been "busted".

Ok-- sample data? Breakfast: $25. Lunch at Universal: $39. Dinner at Chilis: $60. Simple. You know what these things cost. You could just use averages. Like, I figure a theme park counter service meal is an average of $13. If you agree, use that. If not, use what you feel it is. Multiply by 3 for your 3 ppl, or by 2 if you'd share, or by 1 if you'd divide up a meal 3 ways. Just be sure to compare to the same amount of food you got on the DDP, else your plan becomes one of "pay less by eating less" which is not a strategy but a simple calculation about how much a family eats on a trip.

You also assume this is the only trip of the year and that the AP costs aren't amortizable over additional trips.

Ok how many trips are you going to amortize over? And is your theory about a strategy to get more for less predicated on being able to go... 4, 6, or 8 weeks? Obviously if I went that often, I could amortize my own APs over that time. So the number of weeks is not really relevant. It's what you're doing and where you're staying that matter. Let's assume you'd buy an AP in either plan... doing just WDW or doing this plan. So write out the numbers then.

If a company devises a plan and invests a billion dollars or more to squeeze additional spending out of it's customers by motivating them with a few token incentives, how is it a "snub" to take advantage of those incentives without aiding the company in meeting it's corporate objectives?

That's what I was getting at. So your post is not so much how to save money, or get more for less, but how to take a trip to Orlando and pay Disney as little as possible? This amount is obtainable in about 20 seconds. It's the price of an AP. Period. For your ticket price alone, one can enjoy Disney and spend the least at WDW. Your plan was supposed to show how we can get more tho by paying less overall. So if you keep it on track and get to that, I'll look forward to reading some of your numbers. That would sum up and make your point. You've asserted a strategy to get more for less. You've shown the "more", so now I eagerly await understanding the "for less".

 

[MrInfinity]

I believe that the point for Laketravis is his personal movement from spending thousands of dollars on each past WDW vacation to now still getting his WDW fix while doing a lot more outside of WDW, and for less money. For them, as for me, it's a huge change.

Oh, I agree! So what I'd like to see is what constitutes less money. So let's take the Disney ticket price out of the equation, figuring Lake would buy an AP no matter what. Then the cost to stay on prop at Disney starts at $945/week. So the question becomes which is cheaper...

$945 to stay at Disney (figure $900 after Target discount).

or

Price of a condo + resort fee + tax + Rental + Gas + Tolls + Cape Canaveral + Uni passes

Or I don't care if he even adds it up like that. I'd just like to see some sort of actual expense comparison. For a thread titled how to get More for Less, that seems appropriate.