Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[GadgetRick]

I think it could be like any other Disney "upgrade", preferred rooms cost more, park hoppers cost more, dining plans costs more.........etc. We drive in so we never use DME, but we are paying for it. Disney could tier hotel room costs accordingly. I don't mind paying for extras if I use them, like I posted previously, I don't see any problem with a small fee to use Disney transportation if I am staying off property.

Again, it's a very slippery slope. You'd have the logistical issues--how do you police it properly and how do you keep from making everyone upset and causing a scene?

And where would you stop? Alright, I haven't done Mickey's Royal Philharmagic in a couple of years. Why am I paying for that in my ticket? Can't they just add a couple of dollars if I want to do that?

This is why they got rid of the ticketing scheme they used when they first opened and why almost every major theme park in the world doesn't do ticketing for each ride. It's much simpler for EVERYONE to sell just one ticket which gets you everything.

Food and other extras like that are a different thing entirely.

 

[GadgetRick]

Some nights, that 'predictable time' is as little as an hour: when MK is open until 3, it takes 90 minutes to clear the park and power down the system, then 90 minutes in the morning to power it back up where it apparently needs and will continue to be operating by 7 AM daily. Even on those nights, maintenance will now have about four hours for planned work instead of 60 minutes for patch work.

They have a predictable amount of time each and every night when they can work on trains. All of the trains are not in use at the same time. I really can't grasp what you're missing here. It's not like they run ALL of the trains ALL of the time so there's no time for maintenance. There's time for maintenance. When the busy season is over they'll have more time for maintenance. A couple of extra hours a night just isn't going to add all that much to make a difference on something like this.

Well, I subscribe to some magazines, but other than that I'm not bog on commitment.
Pieces falling off the monorail isn't the same as literally falling apart - but it's a clear sign that repairs need to be done. Because pieces have literally fallen off, it's not a concept but a fact.[/QOTE]
I'm not the one who said they're literally falling apart, someone else did. However, you are also making it seem like things are falling off the trains all of the time when it's just not true. I think you'd be surprised at what you'd find on the floor in Space Mountain. These things are moving, there are lots of moving parts, things will fall off from time to time and that's why they do regular, scheduled, maintenance to make sure these things don't cause major problems.

Again, some nights that can be as little as an hour. I would expect any mechanical work would take longer than that in a given session. But I don't understand the outcry. Right now we're talking about six hours of alternate - not no - transportation. Six.
I think more accurate would be 'whenever Disney has known in advance that they needed to do maintenance...'. I'm somewhat recalling the main pool at one of the All Stars a few years ago? It developed a crack or defect and was shut down for quite a while (several weeks, at least, if not months) on extremely short notice.

Yet, maintenance wasn't given as a reason until a lot of people started making noise about it. And, if it's just for maintenance, why is it a, "permanent," change? Again, I fail to understand why you ignore these facts. I can understand why you might still think the maintenance BS we're getting from Disney is the real reason (whether I agree with it or not). You're ignoring how this has played out. I understand things need maintenance. However, if it were a, "OMG! We have to fix these things!" First, they wouldn't have given any warning even though it was a few days. They would have just shut it down and said they have to fix it (in their PR way). Second, it wouldn't be permanent.

Also, and I'll say it again as others have but you ignore this as well, the uproar from many (not all) has nothing to do with this particular issue, it's with the fact that Disney has been pulling this kind of BS more and more over recent years and we're getting tired of it. You can make excuses for them (you--and others--have concocted this theory about how the cars are falling apart and have to be fixed, etc.) all you want but it doesn't change the fact that guest are getting less and less for their dollars. You can also make excuses about that all you want as well but it doesn't change that FACT.

 

[honeymo78]

A fraction as in, less than all of them. From what I understand they have 11 trains (10 or 11 makes little difference). They only run 4 or 5 at any given time. So, 1/2 of the trains (or more) are not in use and can certainly be worked on.

There are definitely more than 4-5 running for the bulk of each day. 2-3 on epcot line, 3 on express and 3 on resort. That's not even full capacity. I've seen 4 running on the resort line in October.

 

[joelkfla]

IF, and I say IF emphatically because I have searched every news paper, TV station, and Disney report and have found NOTHING to support the "parts are falling off" story, a part fell off and hit someone on the ground it would be a NIGHTMARE for Disney.

However, I do recall seeing news stories about parts falling off and a small fire on the Las Vegas monorail. I believe they are running retired WDW trains, which would now be 40 years old.

Perhaps the PP was confused?

 

[GadgetRick]

That's routine maintenance. What's being done now may be more involved, time-consuming, or both. I don't know. It's just a guess.

First, it's not routine if they're changing the operating hours as they don't, typically do that.

Second, it's OBVIOUSLY more involved, time-consuming or both since it's a permanent change according to Disney. That is, if you believe routine maintenance would require this change permanently...

 

[hakepb]

Regarding operating cost: the monorails run on electric induction, don't they? Wouldn't diesel fuel for 430 or so buses cost more than the electricity each day?

That baffles me, too.
My only guess is all of the monorail attendants at all of the stops cost more than the fuel.
Because they have to keep the buses running for the majority of guests, its "cheaper" to add another bus or 2 than run the entire monorail system.

 

[GadgetRick]

Maintaining the trains does absolutely no good if it's the TRACK that's having problems. Is the track supposed to be somehow magically impervious to wear and tear from trains running over it every day? A bridge over a river will dump cars in the water eventually if you don't maintain it, it doesn't matter if the cars are in perfect condition!

Again, someone else make another excuse. The trains are falling apart but it's now the track which needs repair. You're right about bridges, however, if the bridge is in that bad of shape they close it down entirely until it's repaired. If it's not that bad, they schedule the maintenance in advance so people can plan for it. And, most importantly, wait for it...it's not PERMANENT!!!

The facts of the matter are as follows, to the best of my understanding:

1) Parts have fallen off the tracks - and very recently. In addition, there have been increasing numbers of maintenance-related problems reported.

This is a fact?? Really??? What were the number of maintenance-related problems they've had in the past versus what they're having now? I don't know this. I'm not sure anyone here knows about this. These things run a LOT. They're gonna break down from time to time. This is the reason they do maintenance on them EVERY night...

4) As for "are more hours for repairs at night really helpful" - the answer is absolutely a resounding YES.

And you know this how?

As for why it's "permanent" - yes, this is speculation, but I think what that really means is "we don't know."

Not speculation at all. Disney themselves said it on more than one occasion. Oh, I forgot, nothing at Disney is permanent (except for price increases). I love how people point to the article when they changed their story to say it was for maintenance and now say, "See, it's for maintenance!" Yet, everyone ignores the FACT Disney (themselves) have said it's a permanent change.

 

[jade1]

I am a bit confused. The MK's park hours during the week of 8-20 to 8-27 (Next Disney vacation ) are 9AM-10PM. If this is in effect, won't the monorail already be closed when the MK closes, let alone when the MK stays open later for EMH? Gees, it is sure going to be fun fighting the mass hoards of other deluxe people to the first bus/ferry when the MK closes.

To put my two cents in, I do find this to be a pretty unfair. One of the reasons to book the CR, GF, or Poly instead of the other deluxe resorts on-property is for the monorail access that stays open during EMH, making transportation easier. It's like a expensive hotel chain advertising their rooms by saying they have a free full-buffet for breakfast, but when it is time to go down to that buffet, you find out that the only thing they offer there for the whole period the buffet is open is burnt toast. Yes, you have something, but it really isn't what they promised. If you are paying that much for a room on the monorail line, Disney should be the ones treating you better than they do for the moderate and value resorts (ex: The All Star Resorts), like each hotel having their own bus to each park instead of the GF and Poly sharing a bus to the MK and Epcot, just to ensure that they return to that hotel in the future.

I am seeing the following for your dates:

10/20 MK closes at 7PM and EPCOT 9PM.
10/21 MK closes at 7PM and EPCOT 9PM.
10/23 MK closes at 7PM and EPCOT 9PM.
10/25 MK closes at 7PM and EPCOT 9PM.
10/27 MK closes at 7PM and EPCOT 9PM.

So if the resort monorail closes at 8PM for MK, there will be 5 nights you cannot get a monorail back to your room after Illuminations, and 5 nights you cannot get a monorail back to your room if you are at MK for the party, and also 5 nights you cannot use the monorail for evening dining.

 

[GadgetRick]

As loved as it is, I'd debate whether the monorail is a "key piece of the business".

You can debate that all you want, it's a key piece of the business to Disney. Has been since the start. That's why it's been used in countless marketing materials and countless commercials, etc. It is part of their identity and, whether you think so or not, is an attraction itself.

How often do you hear people talking about wanting to ride the monorail? Kids--mine included--are sometimes quite happy just riding the monorail even if they never enter a park.

Make no mistake, it's a key piece of the business to Disney...

 

[GadgetRick]

Well the only thing we use that other guests don't is the Club Level service when staying at the Deluxe Resorts. However those rooms are more expensive then the Standard Rooms, so I can't think of anything else we use that others don't.

I'm sure you're using much more than that in WDW which others don't use. Pick an attraction--any attraction--you go on regularly and there are plenty of people who don't ride it.

 

[GadgetRick]

Rising fuel prices and the economy since 9/11 have probably made a replacement monorail near impossible to add to the budget (or those increased fuel costs ate up the expected monorail capital)

That is exactly why companies put money in budgets under different line items. There are always surprise (or unplanned) cost increases for things. So you break it down. I know it'll cost $X to replace this attraction, let's budget for it so we can do it in X year.

 

[Planogirl]

If it's the trains themselves that need work wouldn't it make more sense to take one or two trains at a time completely out of circulation so they can be rebuilt or whatever and maybe supplement with buses? Closing a bit earlier seems less productive.

As for bad tracks, shouldn't those be closed completely (again one at a time) for a completely redo? I could see everyone jammed on one line at a time for something like that.

This makes me uneasy. When something gets run down, Disney typically cuts back on the hours of operation a bit at a time until they close it. I hope that the monorail isn't slated to be shut down someday.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Not speculation at all. Disney themselves said it on more than one occasion. Oh, I forgot, nothing at Disney is permanent (except for price increases). I love how people point to the article when they changed their story to say it was for maintenance and now say, "See, it's for maintenance!" Yet, everyone ignores the FACT Disney (themselves) have said it's a permanent change.

This is very true, Disney said one thing and then quickly released another statement with the "maintenance" explanation. My guess is that they want to do away with EMH and this is the first step. If you make it more inconveinent for people to get back to their hotels, people will think twice before going to EMH. It's not like Disney is going to release a statement about that..."we're closing the monorails to save money by eventually eliminating EMH. Then we don't have to run the monorails as much AND we can close the park much earlier." They have a PR person for a reason.

The fact that people have said they participated in surveys regarding losing EMH in favor of another perk, makes me think this is a possible excuse. I don't think I'm being all doom and gloom, I'm being realistic. I've officially removed my rose colored Disney glasses. It's a business and their goal is to make more money, even in a recession. Like others have said, they'll continue to push the limits of what people will accept before they decide against going there for vacation anymore (or as often). Totally within Disney's right to profit but I don't have to like the cut backs being made to do so and can certainly enforce that by going less or not at all.

I don't believe the maintenance excuse, especially given that there's no time frame given for completion. Ride rehabs give one, why isn't there one for the monorail?

ETA: I also agree with whoever said that it seems odd that Disney is pumping all this money into the Fantasyland Expansion over the monorail. Yes, everyone will love the FLE but if the monorail is a priority and needs more time for repair, that should be first. I highly doubt that they didn't realize this since the trains are already over 20 years old.

 

[hookedonears]

Really? Well if you know more than the rest of us please do tell and provide your source

Edit: And define "perfectly" if you can. From what I've been reading there have been some incidents in the last few years alone that don't make it seem 'perfect'. And to be accurate, the current monorail trains have been in place since 1989. Not 1971.

Can you explain, Mr. Mechanic, why an estimated end of maintenance date is not given? In almost every announcement Disney has ever made concerning the maintenance or refurbishment of an attraction, an end date is always given? (Ex. Spring 2013, subject to change at a later date). By not giving an ESTIMATED end time, it appears as if the changes are permanent. If they are permanent, why is it all of a sudden required for a system that has worked nearly flawlessly for 40 years? I can see no other explanation other than budget cuts. Disney has left too many questions unanswered. Maybe they're trying to save an aged system from failing. Maybe they're reducing operating hours, and getting out their duck tape and bailing wire to try to keep it together. If that's the case, Disney completely failed in its PMI process and planning process and the problem still revolves around a budget issue, or lack there of. If that's the case, Disney is doing nothing more than kicking the can down the road until they have the budget to fix the problems properly.

 

[disneyworldaddict]

I don't know of anything else but all of this is very interesting. I am way, way past the stroller years but I can see this being a headache. It has to be much harder to fold a stroller and get on a bus than it is to roll a sleeping/tired child onto an air conditioned monorail. May seem minor but everything helps at the end of a long day. I know that the other parks don't have a monorail but I think more young families probably take advantage of MK EMH. Since they have done away with the characters, the next thing to look for may be the shutting down of fantasy land rides during EMH (I have no knowledge, just guessing). The original E-ticket nights didn't include this area to the best of my memory.

I, too, am well past the stroller years, but I know many families who pay extra to stay at these resorts. And many families with small children spend the most time in MK.

I've also seen posted that many wheelchair bound people prefer these resorts for similar reasons as the stroller set, but also because they don't have to be loaded on to a bus seperately with everybody waiting online staring at them.

MY DH and I stayed at Poly, because it was Poly. It was beautiful and felt romantic and we were there for an anniversary. But we certainly enjoyed the conveniance of the monorail and could understand why people would be willing to pay extra for that.

 

[lovethattink]

And as I have said previously, if the trains, or concrete rails, are in such desperate shape that parts are falling off, it is unsafe to run the monorail during regular business hours, when they would be transporting more guests and have more guests in the parks, walking under the rails. Unsafe knows no time. IF, and I say IF emphatically because I have searched every news paper, TV station, and Disney report and have found NOTHING to support the "parts are falling off" story, a part fell off and hit someone on the ground it would be a NIGHTMARE for Disney. The NTSB would also be involved if a transportation system had parts falling off during normal operations. Disney would not chance the massive lawsuit that would surely ensue when someone on the ground is injured or killed. While I can understand the monorail needs to be maintained, I just don't buy it. A company as big as Disney would not wait until the system was in such bad shape before they started maintenance, they, better than anyone else, would know how old and safe/unsafe the monorails would be. If they have waited till the rails or trains are literally falling apart, it would be like an airline waiting until planes started falling out of the sky.

Right, if safety is the reason, then how can it be safe during the daytime?

Absolutely!!! They are not going to cut their own throats right now. People are buying after hour party tickets now. Both of these events are going to be effected by the monorail shutting down and I for one, will not be buying MVMCP tickets this year. We have been to MNSSHP twice and MVMCP once and all three were VERY crowded so I can't even imagine trying to get out of the park after one of the parties.

Maybe push will come to shove and they will see their cutbacks cause huge bottlenecks. Guess it's gonna be a wait and see, with Christmas being the true test of wills.

I'm holding off on considering MNSSHP until after I read reports of how things are going with transporation. We were thinking of going Sept 23 if tickets are available at the door, but now we might find something else to do instead.

This is very true, Disney said one thing and then quickly released another statement with the "maintenance" explanation. My guess is that they want to do away with EMH and this is the first step. If you make it more inconveinent for people to get back to their hotels, people will think twice before going to EMH. It's not like Disney is going to release a statement about that..."we're closing the monorails to save money by eventually eliminating EMH. Then we don't have to run the monorails as much AND we can close the park much earlier." They have a PR person for a reason.

The fact that people have said they participated in surveys regarding losing EMH in favor of another perk, makes me think this is a possible excuse. I don't think I'm being all doom and gloom, I'm being realistic. I've officially removed my rose colored Disney glasses. It's a business and their goal is to make more money, even in a recession. Like others have said, they'll continue to push the limits of what people will accept before they decide against going there for vacation anymore (or as often). Totally within Disney's right to profit but I don't have to like the cut backs being made to do so and can certainly enforce that by going less or not at all.

I don't believe the maintenance excuse, especially given that there's no time frame given for completion. Ride rehabs give one, why isn't there one for the monorail?

ETA: I also agree with whoever said that it seems odd that Disney is pumping all this money into the Fantasyland Expansion over the monorail. Yes, everyone will love the FLE but if the monorail is a priority and needs more time for repair, that should be first. I highly doubt that they didn't realize this since the trains are already over 20 years old.

I'm not sold on the maintenance excuse either.

 

[BrerRabbit1114]

I wonder if they will end up putting in a bus to service the CR/BLT, GF, and Poly. There is already a bus to WL, I believe, so that could also add a CR/BLT stop.

I enjoy the walk but I can understand that for some people, that might be tough and I would assume that things will be adjusted if it isn't working.

I just stayed at the Wilderness Lodge and there is a bus stop to the WL and it was great cause my room was right near the bus stop. But I honestly don't see them putting a bus stop for CR/BLT cause it's literally a 5 minute walk and a 1 minute drive. You know what they should get, 3-5 golf carts that drive guests back and forth from that path to the Magic Kingdom to there resort, that be a good idea.

 

[disney_bob]

Can you explain, Mr. Mechanic, why an estimated end of maintenance date is not given?

I never said I was a mechanic. And for the second part, let me get out my "I'm an exec at Disney" hat and tell you some inside information. Oh wait.

By not giving an ESTIMATED end time, it appears as if the changes are permanent. If they are permanent, why is it all of a sudden required for a system that has worked nearly flawlessly for 40 years?

Did you learn nothing from Aladdin? "Appearances can be deceiving". And your second question is pointless because you make an assumption that isn't proven and use it to guide the question. Pure speculation. Just because something has worked doesn't mean it can't suddenly need repairs. Again, its not really 40 years. The "monorail" has existed that long but these aren't the original trains.

I can see no other explanation other than budget cuts.

An inability to see alternatives doesn't make the "budget cut" explanation correct.

Disney has left too many questions unanswered. Maybe they're trying to save an aged system from failing. Maybe they're reducing operating hours, and getting out their duck tape and bailing wire to try to keep it together. If that's the case, Disney completely failed in its PMI process and planning process and the problem still revolves around a budget issue, or lack there of. If that's the case, Disney is doing nothing more than kicking the can down the road until they have the budget to fix the problems properly.

I wouldn't disagree.. if that is the case.

 

[BrerRabbit1114]

IMHO the walk back and forth from BLT/CR to MK really isn't that bad at all...we walked it muliple times during our Nov stay last yr...one time we took the circut on the monorail it actually took longer...


the path never seemed overly crowded at any time of the day and it didn't neccessarily seem longer or harder even walking back at 2 am

yes it can be tough for those that easily tire or just are worn out after a full day at the park...but I am just saying it's very doable and nice


I wonder though if it will fill up come the monorail not running as long we have a MK EMH night planned in Jan next yr...have to wait and see...we wouldn't opt to take the monorail either way...

my main bug is the EP track...that really stinks to have to take a bus back to BLT when we look forward and enjoy the perk of the monorail...yes the monorail does get packed and crowded like buses but always seems quicker...are there even buses that go to/from EP to CR? andd the other monorail resorts

my DH and I are planning on an EP EMH night in Oct... not to thrilled about this change, based on lines may opt to do a cab back now. have to just wait it out...at least it's only us and not w/ our kids in tow that's always the best part of monorial not having to carry/hold the sleeping child you have to take out of the stroller...

The thought is mostly brought up as far as handicap people or elderly people that have trouble walking long distances, or people with asthma. I agree, the path is fine to walk, it's short and relaxing, never packed, I enjoy. Just for certain people I feel there should be some sort of transportation such as a golf cart right or something of that sort.

 

[kaytieeldr]

This is very true, Disney said one thing and then quickly released another statement with the "maintenance" explanation. My guess is that they want to do away with EMH and this is the first step.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I just plain don't see how changing from one form of transportation to another for four of 26 resorts six hours a week (of over 300) portends to "they're ending evening EMH"