Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[disney_bob]

The system has worked perfectly for 40 years. There's a whole lot more to this story than just maintenance. The manner in which it was announced is very questionable.

Really? Well if you know more than the rest of us please do tell and provide your source

Edit: And define "perfectly" if you can. From what I've been reading there have been some incidents in the last few years alone that don't make it seem 'perfect'. And to be accurate, the current monorail trains have been in place since 1989. Not 1971.

 

[momatater]

Really? Well if you know more than the rest of us please do tell and provide your source

I think he's just making a point that it sounds fishy, out of the blue! When I talked to Guest Services today, it seemed to me like they didn't really want to talk to me, but I told them exactly how it will effect me (and others). At first I got the snarky "well, things have to be worked on from time to time" and I said I agree, BUT, when we go in the fall, I asked them what am I supposed to do at night? Water parks: closed. Animal Kingdom: closed. Mk closed for NOJ @ 7, Special event @ 6 and 2 MNSSHPs @ 7. Epcot and DHS is my only options and I don't like DHS, hardly go there and Epcot, well, can't take the monorail back cuz the MK monorail will be closed. I mentioned it effecting shopping/dining as well. I also asked that if the monorail can stay open til late during summer, that fall they should be able to stay open for parties and the like. I told them they would still get more hours of down time. I got a reaction from the gal like "oh yeah, I never thought of that". So, I don't think Disney thought through this very well!!

Oh, and DTD gets old, can't go there every night either!

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Here's some monorail history information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System

I like how it specifies that routine maintenance is done nightly on the trains.

 

[racefanof88]

That's a slippery slope. There are certainly things you use which are paid for (at least in part) by others who do not use it.

I think it could be like any other Disney "upgrade", preferred rooms cost more, park hoppers cost more, dining plans costs more.........etc. We drive in so we never use DME, but we are paying for it. Disney could tier hotel room costs accordingly. I don't mind paying for extras if I use them, like I posted previously, I don't see any problem with a small fee to use Disney transportation if I am staying off property.

 

[Disneyland_emily]

Define the "fraction of the available cars".

They have 10 trains currently available (we all know about one of them, and Coral is being de-Tron-ified and repainted for the next month or so). What is the number on each beam that they're running daily to arrive at this "a fraction of"?

Typically, this expression is used to denote a minor fraction, so you're insisting that the greater majority of the trains are sitting idle for the entire day, every day. (Which would be rather difficult, since even the shed only holds about 4-5 trains at once from what I've read, which is why they park them overnight in the stations). Just curious as to your perception on how many trains they run, since you claim it only to be a small portion (which is what the expression "a fraction of" is a connotation of).

For the rest of the discussion, I'll leave everyone else to it.

Coral has already been repainted though it hasn't reappeared on the beams yet (though it was sticking out of the 'rail barn today)

'rail barn holds 8 total monorails so 4 stay in stations overnight (unless it gets bitter cold then they get parked in the 'temporary)

Right now they usually start with 8 rails operating. 2 on Epcot and 3 each for Express and Resort. By the end of the day there are typically 9-10 out (Epcot gets a 3rd and either MK beam gets the 4th) only on crazy days do both MK beams get 4 rails-

So no idea where all the extra trains or the emptiness come from- Yes like most public transit they have their peak times and non-peak and the bad part of 'rails is that you can't just hold an emptier one to fill it up as well cause the one behind needs to drop their passengers off but overall they don't go empty most of the time..

 

[kaytieeldr]

But, if you subscribe to the, "literally falling apart," concept, then a couple of extra hours of downtime isn't going to change that it's unsafe! They already have a predictable time every single night they can work on things. If it's truly that unsafe, then they need to be brought down TOTALLY so it can be fixed before someone gets hurt.

Some nights, that 'predictable time' is as little as an hour: when MK is open until 3, it takes 90 minutes to clear the park and power down the system, then 90 minutes in the morning to power it back up where it apparently needs and will continue to be operating by 7 AM daily. Even on those nights, maintenance will now have about four hours for planned work instead of 60 minutes for patch work.

But, if you subscribe to the, "literally falling apart," concept

Well, I subscribe to some magazines, but other than that I'm not bog on commitment.
Pieces falling off the monorail isn't the same as literally falling apart - but it's a clear sign that repairs need to be done. Because pieces have literally fallen off, it's not a concept but a fact.

They already have a predictable time every single night they can work on things.

Again, some nights that can be as little as an hour. I would expect any mechanical work would take longer than that in a given session. But I don't understand the outcry. Right now we're talking about six hours of alternate - not no - transportation. Six.

Add to that, in the past, whenever Disney needed to do maintenance like this,

I think more accurate would be 'whenever Disney has known in advance that they needed to do maintenance...'. I'm somewhat recalling the main pool at one of the All Stars a few years ago? It developed a crack or defect and was shut down for quite a while (several weeks, at least, if not months) on extremely short notice.

I don't know when or what the first piece - the one that started a fire - fell off, but this announcement about alternative transportation less than two percent of the time was made a week after a second piece/part detached.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Here's some monorail history information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System

I like how it specifies that routine maintenance is done nightly on the trains.

That's routine maintenance. What's being done now may be more involved, time-consuming, or both. I don't know. It's just a guess.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't know when or what the first piece - the one that started a fire - fell off, but this announcement about alternative transportation less than two percent of the time was made a week after a second piece/part detached.

I don't think folks attending in the fall/winter CARE that the overall average is 2% of the time. It's about THEIR experience, not the average experience. It won't matter to them that the folks attending in the summer had full monorail access all but during the EMH. But I do hope they refrain from throwing any toys out of their pram.

It would make a lot more sense for them to set a specific time EACH DAY YEAR ROUND to close the monorail down, then stick to it. Then they would have a predictable amount of time each night to do this long awaited work.

FWIW.......... I didn't do the math....... but I'm thinking the days they only have 1 hour of downtime might average something like....... I don't know........ maybe 2% of the time.

 

[mom2rtk]

That's routine maintenance. What's being done now may be more involved, time-consuming, or both. I don't know. It's just a guess.

That's all any of us can do right now...... is guess.

But if it's some sort of special fix, then I would think there would be an estimated end date, instead of the supposed permanent (as permanent as you can get at Disney) change.

I still think they just want to use them less......... give them a good night's sleep before they have to get up and go back to work the next morning. I think they should just buy more. I think they should have better anticiated this problem. If they replaced them in '89, I wonder how long they expect to limp through with what they have?

 

[umichigan10]

That's all any of us can do right now...... is guess.

But if it's some sort of special fix, then I would think there would be an estimated end date, instead of the supposed permanent (as permanent as you can get at Disney) change.

I still think they just want to use them less......... give them a good night's sleep before they have to get up and go back to work the next morning. I think they should just buy more. I think they should have better anticiated this problem. If they replaced them in '89, I wonder how long they expect to limp through with what they have?

This. (specifically your last sentance) Think about it for a minute. They replaced the first fleet of trains after 19 years, and this fleet is at 22. They're supposed to replace them every 20 years. So in the words of Rafiki, "It is time."

 

[3prettyprincesses]

That's routine maintenance. What's being done now may be more involved, time-consuming, or both. I don't know. It's just a guess.

True, but if they're being regularly inspected and maintained every night, how did they not know sooner that the monorails were in need of an extended maintenance period? If they're getting looked over every night, wouldn't it be obvious if their hours needed to be curtailed for more repair time? Somehow they can run during summer hours but when the fall comes, the hours will change. It sounds odd, doesn't it? Shouldn't it be the same hours year round they plan to close the monorail, regardless of when the parks close?

 

[kaytieeldr]

The system has worked perfectly for 40 years. There's a whole lot more to this story than just maintenance. The manner in which it was announced is very questionable.

You probably just missed posts (one in this thread) about needing to be evacuated, or reports over the last few years of breakdowns.

 

[mom2rtk]

You probably just missed posts (one in this thread) about needing to be evacuated, or reports over the last few years of breakdowns.

But if they have had issues for several years, and I'm assuming they KNEW the fleet as nearing (and crossing) the 20 year mark.......... why the crisis plan NOW? I think this is the biggest question I have about the whole thing .

 

[Zeora]

Here's some monorail history information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System

I like how it specifies that routine maintenance is done nightly on the trains.

Okay, I just can't stand it anymore. I don't care if people decide to label me as a gullible "apologist" or whatever, I have to point this out:

Maintaining the trains does absolutely no good if it's the TRACK that's having problems. Is the track supposed to be somehow magically impervious to wear and tear from trains running over it every day? A bridge over a river will dump cars in the water eventually if you don't maintain it, it doesn't matter if the cars are in perfect condition!

The facts of the matter are as follows, to the best of my understanding:

1) Parts have fallen off the tracks - and very recently. In addition, there have been increasing numbers of maintenance-related problems reported.
2) The tracks cannot be repaired when trains are running on them.
3) There are no alternate tracks to put the trains onto while you repair the first set - this isn't like a highway where you can steer traffic into other lanes while you repave the first one. There is nowhere else the trains can go.
4) As for "are more hours for repairs at night really helpful" - the answer is absolutely a resounding YES.

Honestly, it makes far more logical sense to me that Disney would cut back on monorail service during peak season with very little warning because the track needs those extra hours of work now, that it cannot wait until off-season before the tracks actually do get to the point of becoming unsafe. If it was just a cutback, this is not the time they'd choose to do it. And shutting down the system entirely is really not a good choice if they can eke out a little more time with repairs until they can get to a time of year with less demand, and therefore more leeway to do extensive work.

Is it upsetting? Absolutely. My trip will be negatively affected too. I also think Disney has been amazingly stupid to let things get to this point in the first place - the monorail is now crucially important to park transportation and they have no good backup when with better long-range planning they could have replaced it, rebuilt parts of it without compromising peak-season traffic, come up with some alternate system that was better than buses, or something. Instead they clearly put off dealing with the problem for much longer than they should, and now it's finally coming back to bite them. I even think they were stupid in how they handled the announcement, and that they should have just said it was for maintenance right from the start. But I don't believe for one minute that it's a just a lie so they can deprive the guests of monorail service. Why the heck is it ridiculous to believe that parts falling off the tracks is a bad sign?

Maybe it's just that I've lived almost my entire life in cities where multiple bridges are required and I'm used to seeing the construction patterns on them, but I can't understand why "but they maintain the trains, so it can't be maintenance" is such a popular line of reasoning. Honestly, it just doesn't work that way. As for why it's "permanent" - yes, this is speculation, but I think what that really means is "we don't know." Will the longer night hours of maintenance be enough to keep the rails safe? Can they make enough repairs fast enough to step up service again for the parties? Will they actually need to eventually shut the system down entirely to rebuild parts of it? I really don't think they know, and I don't think they will know until they've had a period to try out the shorter hours (several weeks, at least). An engineering project of this scale takes time to plan out. Do you think they decide to expand Fantasyland and then just up and start building a week later? These things take months (sometimes years) of planning time, and right now they just don't have that time.

Okay, I'm done. I really am sympathetic to how frustrating it is not to have access to the monorail, and I'm going to keep watching in hopes that they'll decide to go for it during parties at least. But I'm certainly not going to let it ruin my trip completely if they don't.

 

[maiapapaya]

I agree with the posters who have mentioned that TPTB could have considered a set time each night for the service to shut down (it could be adjusted by season). It just seems that no one thought out the implications of the current policy wrt the fall season, once the parties begin. It's ridiculous not to have monorail service at least for most of the night for the parties. Since the MK is open to usually 9 or 10 in the fall on non-party nights even if the monorail runs until 11:00 as a standard time it would make a huge difference. There would still be plenty of time for maintenance. That way at least many people with younger children would probably be heading home from the party by then and resort guests dining/shopping at the other monorail resorts would still be provided with the premium service that they have paid for. It seems like a good compromise that would keep most/many more people happy.

 

[racefanof88]

Can anyone point me to the report about the parts falling off the monorails? I have looked everywhere and can not seem to find it.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Okay, I just can't stand it anymore. I don't care if people decide to label me as a gullible "apologist" or whatever, I have to point this out:

Maintaining the trains does absolutely no good if it's the TRACK that's having problems. Is the track supposed to be somehow magically impervious to wear and tear from trains running over it every day? A bridge over a river will dump cars in the water eventually if you don't maintain it, it doesn't matter if the cars are in perfect condition!

The facts of the matter are as follows, to the best of my understanding:

1) Parts have fallen off the tracks - and very recently. In addition, there have been increasing numbers of maintenance-related problems reported.
2) The tracks cannot be repaired when trains are running on them.
3) There are no alternate tracks to put the trains onto while you repair the first set - this isn't like a highway where you can steer traffic into other lanes while you repave the first one. There is nowhere else the trains can go.
4) As for "are more hours for repairs at night really helpful" - the answer is absolutely a resounding YES.

Honestly, it makes far more logical sense to me that Disney would cut back on monorail service during peak season with very little warning because the track needs those extra hours of work now, that it cannot wait until off-season before the tracks actually do get to the point of becoming unsafe. If it was just a cutback, this is not the time they'd choose to do it. And shutting down the system entirely is really not a good choice if they can eke out a little more time with repairs until they can get to a time of year with less demand, and therefore more leeway to do extensive work.

Is it upsetting? Absolutely. My trip will be negatively affected too. I also think Disney has been amazingly stupid to let things get to this point in the first place - the monorail is now crucially important to park transportation and they have no good backup when with better long-range planning they could have replaced it, rebuilt parts of it without compromising peak-season traffic, come up with some alternate system that was better than buses, or something. Instead they clearly put off dealing with the problem for much longer than they should, and now it's finally coming back to bite them. I even think they were stupid in how they handled the announcement, and that they should have just said it was for maintenance right from the start. But I don't believe for one minute that it's a just a lie so they can deprive the guests of monorail service. Why the heck is it ridiculous to believe that parts falling off the tracks is a bad sign?

Maybe it's just that I've lived almost my entire life in cities where multiple bridges are required and I'm used to seeing the construction patterns on them, but I can't understand why "but they maintain the trains, so it can't be maintenance" is such a popular line of reasoning. Honestly, it just doesn't work that way. As for why it's "permanent" - yes, this is speculation, but I think what that really means is "we don't know." Will the longer night hours of maintenance be enough to keep the rails safe? Can they make enough repairs fast enough to step up service again for the parties? Will they actually need to eventually shut the system down entirely to rebuild parts of it? I really don't think they know, and I don't think they will know until they've had a period to try out the shorter hours (several weeks, at least). An engineering project of this scale takes time to plan out. Do you think they decide to expand Fantasyland and then just up and start building a week later? These things take months (sometimes years) of planning time, and right now they just don't have that time.

Okay, I'm done. I really am sympathetic to how frustrating it is not to have access to the monorail, and I'm going to keep watching in hopes that they'll decide to go for it during parties at least. But I'm certainly not going to let it ruin my trip completely if they don't.

From the report, it said the trains needed repair. I didn't read where it said the track. Maybe I missed it but I assume the trains are supposedly the problem.

 

[acebatonfan]

We were at the MK today. Took these pics of the signs.

I am a bit confused. The MK's park hours during the week of 8-20 to 8-27 (Next Disney vacation ) are 9AM-10PM. If this is in effect, won't the monorail already be closed when the MK closes, let alone when the MK stays open later for EMH? Gees, it is sure going to be fun fighting the mass hoards of other deluxe people to the first bus/ferry when the MK closes.

To put my two cents in, I do find this to be a pretty unfair. One of the reasons to book the CR, GF, or Poly instead of the other deluxe resorts on-property is for the monorail access that stays open during EMH, making transportation easier. It's like a expensive hotel chain advertising their rooms by saying they have a free full-buffet for breakfast, but when it is time to go down to that buffet, you find out that the only thing they offer there for the whole period the buffet is open is burnt toast. Yes, you have something, but it really isn't what they promised. If you are paying that much for a room on the monorail line, Disney should be the ones treating you better than they do for the moderate and value resorts (ex: The All Star Resorts), like each hotel having their own bus to each park instead of the GF and Poly sharing a bus to the MK and Epcot, just to ensure that they return to that hotel in the future.

 

[disney_bob]

I think they should just buy more. I think they should have better anticiated this problem. If they replaced them in '89, I wonder how long they expect to limp through with what they have?

A Mark VI monorail cost $3.575 million in 1989. That's well over $6 million in todays dollars. That would be over $72 million just for the trains assuming they would still make them. That doesn't include getting them on the track or anything like that.

More realistically they'd get a new design which I could only imagine would be closer to $10 million each. $120 million isn't chump change even for Disney and in this economy...

They probably should have planned better. Heck, maybe this is some elaborate well-thought out plan. We don't know cuz we're just observers with little inside information. Either way, its easy to say "well they should just buy more" but I'd wager its a lot more complicated than that. After all, these people get paid to think about stuff like this a lot more often than Person X, Y, and Z on an internet forum.

I didn't really hint at this much in my other posts in the thread, but I certainly sympathize with those with upcoming trips staying at the MK resorts on the monorail line. I love the monorail and look forward to it every trip. Unlike some, though, I can't automatically assume (and I hope its not the case) that Disney is doing this for cost saving or to screw the customers. I expect they're "doing the right thing".

 

[mom2rtk]

A Mark VI monorail cost $3.575 million in 1989. That's well over $6 million in todays dollars. That would be over $72 million just for the trains assuming they would still make them. That doesn't include getting them on the track or anything like that.

More realistically they'd get a new design which I could only imagine would be closer to $10 million each. $120 million isn't chump change even for Disney and in this economy...

They probably should have planned better. Heck, maybe this is some elaborate well-thought out plan. We don't know cuz we're just observers with little inside information. Either way, its easy to say "well they should just buy more" but I'd wager its a lot more complicated than that. After all, these people get paid to think about stuff like this a lot more often than Person X, Y, and Z on an internet forum.

Well, when I said "just buy more"...... it was sort of tongue in cheek knowing full well it wasn't like runnng to the local market to pick some up.

But honestly....... if they're 20 plus years old.......... and if they replaced the last ones after 20 years...... don't you think they should have seen this one coming?

I said it before........ as a Fantasyland loving MK fan who is very excited about the new Expansion. If the cost is an issue..... on a key piece of their business they KNEW was aging...... doesn't it seem strange to see all those cranes hard at work inside the park ......... when there is apparently a big need right outside the front gates?

And isn't that capital expenditure INSIDE the park designed to bring EVEN MORE bodies into the parks....... via a monorail system they claim needs more rest?