Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[hookedonears]

I'm curious...... those of you who think the walk back to the Contemporary is not biggie........ do any of you have little kids?

Agree 100%. We've never stayed at the Contemporary, but I do know that after beating the pavement all day and being on our feet all day, being able to sit and have a relaxing ride on the monorail can't come soon enough. The thought of having to walk another 1/2 mile (or what ever the distance is) at the end of the day, dragging kids, would make me have second thoughts about ever doing evening extra magic hours at the MK.

 

[RFrank9504]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...world-monorail-hours-20110711,0,5862490.story

Personally Its a great idea! The monorails are 20 years old. At some point everything needs a rehab. I'm over hearing about it.....

 

[snykymom]

Everyone seems to be talking about the "first-time visitor" and their anger so they won't be back. Don't forget that most first-time visitors are only-time visitors anyway, so they wouldn't be back. (Remember that's one of the reasons why HM doesn't get a Halloween makeover in WDW like it does at Disneyland.) Everyone talks about Disney not caring about the "die-hards" and return-trip visitors.

But let's not forget where much of their marketing money is going - to DVC. Those are not for first-and-only-time visitors. They're trying to get their first timers to become old timers.

This move will not help.

I found it amusing that last night I got an e-mail telling me that BLT was almost sold out, and I would have to move fast to buy into it.

 

[minandmick]

larryz- you're right, the late emh isn't the issue right now. it's just concerning to think that it's a possibility of it being cut out of the perks of owning a dvc.

my husband and I always take advantage of the late emh hours as opposed to the early.

I don't know how I feel about it all right now. I love Disney, but I love being wise with our $$ too. I can do a lot of justifying of Disney in my head when it comes to $$. I just hope they don't make it harder and harder to do that in the future.

 

[jade1]

I wasn't assuming anything. I was trying to answer your question using information provided by a seemingly reliable Orlando Sentinel reporter.


The monorail, despite how passionately some people are reacting, isn't an attraction. It's transportation. And it's not being 'taken down'; it's simply going to be operating on a somewhat regular daily schedule. The monorails will still be operating every day, starting before the appropriate parks open, during all the hours those parks are open to the general public, and ending an hour after those parks close to that customer base. After that time, the routes will be handled by scheduled (vs. emergency) buses.

The sky isn't falling.

That has not been confirmed though. They even said they may shut down the MK (resorts) loop when MK closes at 7PM for evening parties. That means this OCT there will by 16 (of 31) nights that the monorail from EPCOT will not bring you back to your resort from 8PM on. So 1/2 the nights if watch Illuminations your on a bus instead.

 

[kimgof]

Do you think there is enought time to get to the monorail if you stay around for the fireworks that start at closing? I know Illuminations is pretty long from what I remember. At least at MK I can take the ferry back to the Poly but from Epcot I would have to bus it.

 

[jade1]

Do you think there is enought time to get to the monorail if you stay around for the fireworks that start at closing? I know Illuminations is pretty long from what I remember. At least at MK I can take the ferry back to the Poly but from Epcot I would have to bus it.

You will still have the monorail back to TTC-just the MK loop will be down so bus/boat back to your resort from there. As some have said though-maybe just take a bus after 7:30 and hope its direct to your monorail resort.....I mean your "once in a while" monorail resort.

 

[katrina1122]

My point is with two tired kids, at 3am, it might as well be an 8 mile walk. Crossing the street, dodging umpteen busses, carrying two exhausted kids, in the pouring rain, after paying that amount of money would be a deal breaker for most, if not all, new Disney guests.

I don't think that most will agree with you. As Robo said, many choose CR because of its proximity to MK and the fact that walking there is a trivial event, day or night.

I have to disagree, someone new is going to see other rides/attractions down for maitenance at any given time. This doesn't stop them from coming back, most people understand that when something is open 365 days a year, it has to close at some point to be upgraded/updated. They'll see sorry for the inconvience signs about the monorail, be annoyed, but just go with the flow. If they are having a good time, they'll be back. Having to use alternate transporation isn't going to stop someone from coming back. If they don't come back it's because WDW isn't for them, or they don't have/want to spend the money again...not because they had to walk to the CR a few times after E EMH.

 

[FireDancer]

I have to disagree, someone new is going to see other rides/attractions down for maitenance at any given time. This doesn't stop them from coming back, most people understand that when something is open 365 days a year, it has to close at some point to be upgraded/updated. They'll see sorry for the inconvience signs about the monorail, be annoyed, but just go with the flow. If they are having a good time, they'll be back. Having to use alternate transporation isn't going to stop someone from coming back. If they don't come back it's because WDW isn't for them, or they don't have/want to spend the money again...not because they had to walk to the CR a few times after E EMH.

Luckily most people are able to go with the flow and adjust. Attractions go down as does transportation. Sometimes this is planned and sometimes it is not.

Spaceship Earth is the icon of Epcot but sometimes you get there and find out it is down for a refurb. Not just down after a couple of hours a day but down for weeks or months yet people deal and move on with their vacations.

Everyday in life there are inconveniences but most people adjust and carry on as opposed to throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

[baler31]

I have to think one group is happy about this.... Cab services.

 

[JimmyV]

Everything that was said before the article by Garcia was merely speculation. Just because it comes from a CM, some possibly non-existent "memo", or an online CM forum (even one run by Disney) doesn't mean it was ever their official stance on the matter.

To believe anything that was "official" in this entire thread before Jason's article is to be as gullible as the guests who believe the rumors the bus driver tells them.

Well, either all of these posters are lying, or the people providing them with their information were lying, or their various sources of information were all coincidentally wrong. I am not cynical enough to believe the first two possibilities, and I do not believe in coincidences. Applying Occam's Razor, the logical conclusion is that the information has evolved.

Exact wording from a internal memo posted. Hence, not "speculation"

Is this change permanent?

Yes, although we regularly evaluate and adjust our operations based on a variety of operational considerations.

I posted this before, It's direct from Disney. and therefore not speculation
During Magic Kingdom Extra Magic Hours or Events, the Resort Monorail runs 1 hour after regular park hours. Return service from evening Extra Magic Hours in the parks will be supported by watercraft (where applicable) and bus transportation

Since the express monorail closes 1 hour after regular park hours and MVMCP and MNSSHP are events, I believe its pretty sound logic to come to that conclusion.

The memo which is available on the hub has specific questions and answers. One of the questions is

Is this change permanent, the answer is YES

Ok just talked to my daughter who works in attractions at Epcot (not parking or monorails or watercraft..just plain old Attractions) and I mentioned this to her. She said she all ready knew about it from her morning meeting at work. She said that they were told it was a permanent change.

Being told something does not constitute speculation.

FWIW, confirmed with a WDW chat representative:

Thank you for contacting Disney. I'd be happy to help out. The monorails will cycle down one hour after the regular park closing hours. There will be return service from evening Extra Magic Hours by watercraft (where applicable) and bus transportation back to your resort. You can offer your feedback to us at wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

When I piece all this together, I conclude that the original internal announcement anticipated a permanent change that would apply to EMH and Events. Disney also anticipated a host of complaints. The complaints came in, and what was originally thought to be the "new procedure" has been changed and may yet change some more. No offense to Mr. Garcia, but his article is nothing more than a codification of whatever then-current press release he was fed by Disney. So by the time the article hit the press, the new procedure had already morphed. Either that, or every post cited above was a lie based on a lie. I don't buy that.

 

[Cest_la_vie]

Imagine if your car ran 365 days a year, with only a few hours turned off at night and some nights only one hour. Your car wouldn't be looking too good. Imagine an aircraft doing the same thing. The monorails aren't simple machines, they're complex and do need more maintenance than you'd expect. Chances are this is a cost cutting measure, but not in the way that most people seem to think. It's cost cutting in the way that all preventative maintenance is.

I doubt first time visitors will know what they're missing or consider it a deal breaker. They'll probably look at it as just a little bit more walking than they already do during the day. It's not like they're sitting down all day and then told they have to walk.

And maybe we're lucky and this maintenance is just to prep the beams for new monorails. Maybe Mk. VIIs or VIIIs?

 

[mom2rtk]

I do think this entire conversation would be less frustrating if there was a consistent answer from Disney about what was really going on. Initial reports were that it is permanent (as permanent as Disney gets). But then the article article says it's temporary. Permanent seems to imply cost cutting. Temporary seems to imply maintenance. When I see two completely different responses like that, I do get skeptical that perhaps the second story was PR positioning in response to what happened after the initial announcement. In the end, will any of us ever know if more maintenance is done on the monorail than could have been accomplished before this change?

Additionally it would be an entirely different discussion if we knew how they were handling party nights. If you go in the summer with late park hours, this really is a minor annoyance for a few night owls. If you go in the winter and the MK closes at 7 four nights a week, it's a lot more than an annoyance.

It's a lot easier to expect someone going during the time of year with long regular park hours and no parties to "go with the flow" than those who are facing potential monorail closure at 8 PM 4 nights a week. I think we need to let them vent a little.

 

[mom2rtk]

most people adjust and carry on as opposed to throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

[JimmyV]

Initial reports were that it is permanent (as permanent as Disney gets). But then the article article says it's temporary. Permanent seems to imply cost cutting. Temporary seems to imply maintenance. When I see two completely different responses like that, I do get skeptical that perhaps the second story was PR positioning in response to what happened after the initial announcement.

Chances are this is a cost cutting measure, but not in the way that most people seem to think. It's cost cutting in the way that all preventative maintenance is.

I think when you put these two thoughts together, you will find the truth. Disney probably, (and correctly) concluded that it simply could not sustain the monorails by running them 20 hours or so a day. The system simply would not survive. So they figured out a way to cut back the schedule to 15 or so hours a day. They realized that this was a drastic change, so they needed some "cover" and attributed this change all to maintenance rather than publicly concede that the monorail system would no longer survive under current stressful use. That is not to say that maintenance won't be done. But I think that the idea that the monorails will ever return back to 20 hour a day schedules is remote unless park hours, crowds and alternative transportation modes mandate that type of use. And the statements being released by Disney from and to various sources is changing because they didn't think through the PR aspect of this very well the first time around. They probably think that they have landed on a winner with Maintenance, so they are going with that. And someone probably pointed out to them that there is much more of a mass exodus at the end of hard ticket event nights than there is with typical EMH nights, and that the alternative transportation modes may not be able to handle the crush. So I am sure that they have their "human movement" imagineers working 'round the clock trying to figure out if the monorails will be essential to handle such events. (My guess, is "yes".)

 

[tlenzendorf]

The thing is that it's their business and they can do what they want. Just because something makes some customers unhappy doesn't mean it will make them all unhappy or stop going. While most will complain away privately or on a forum, how many will actually contact Disney and let them know, stay offsite, stay in a different resort, or, shockingly, stop going? Most will just make it work. They aren't taking ALL the transportation options away. Some are complaining like it's the end of the world. You will still have a minimum of 2 free ways to get back to your resort, walk or boat to the CR, bus or boat to the rest.

They can stop the monorail if they want. For me this means I won't stay at a monorail resort. Way too expensive of a hotel if one of the big draws isn't an option. I am curious if this becomes a permanent change if they will have a hard time selling the GF DVC when open?

They can do away with evening EMHs if they want. For me this means I will stay offsite. We don't use the dining plan already, evening EMHs are a huge draw for us. I'm already upset about no characters and have emailed them telling them so.

They can keep making the little negative changes that in my eyes change what WDW means to me and we'll start taking family vacations elsewhere.

WDW can do what they want and I can, too.

 

[mom2rtk]

The thing is that it's their business and they can do what they want. Just because something makes some customers unhappy doesn't mean it will make them all unhappy or stop going. While most will complain away privately or on a forum, how many will actually contact Disney and let them know, or, shocking, stop going? Most will just make it work.

They can stop the monorail if they want. For me this means I won't stay at a monorail resort. Way too expensive of a hotel if one of the big draws isn't an option.

They can do away with evening EMHs if they want. For me this means I will stay offsite. We don't use the dining plan already, evening EMHs are a huge draw for us. I'm already upset about no characters and have emailed them telling them so.

They can keep making the little changes that in my eyes change what WDW means to me and we'll start taking family vacations elsewhere.

WDW can do what they want and I can, too.

I absolutely agree with all of that. I'm a big believer in the free market system.

But it doesn't mean I won't vent here when they do!

 

[FireDancer]

It is a saying used mostly in England and a pram is what they call a stroller. It just fits this entire thread (and many others to be fair).

Idiom Definitions for 'Throw your toys out of the pram'

To make an angry protest against a relatively minor problem, in the process embarrassing the protester. The analogy is with a baby who throws toys out of the pram in order to get their parent to pay attention to them. The implication in the idiom is that the protester is acting like a baby.

 

[mom2rtk]

It is a saying used mostly in England and a pram is what they call a stroller. It just fits this entire thread (and many others to be fair).

I figured as much. I just thought it sounded slightly harsh, as in comparing those unhappy with the change as a bunch of spoiled little babies.

And as I mentioned earlier, it really is a minor annoyance for some. But for certain times of the year, I consider it to be a bigger issue.

 

[GadgetRick]

I wasn't assuming anything. I was trying to answer your question using information provided by a seemingly reliable Orlando Sentinel reporter.

Sorry but using, "reliable," and any reporter is just plain funny. And, even from this person, nothing is there indicating the monorail is about to start killing masses of people if it doesn't get a couple of hours extra rest a few nights a month...

The monorail, despite how passionately some people are reacting, isn't an attraction.

Sorry but it is an attraction. Disney made it an attraction over all of these years, not the guests. It's been used for marketing purposes countless times over the years. It has become an icon at Disney. Would Disney fail if they suddenly ripped it out? Of course not but it would change the face of Disney forever.

The sky isn't falling.

Again, nobody is saying the sky is falling because of this one thing, rather, it's more and more of a concern that so many things (no matter how little they are individually) are being taken away. Make no mistake, this is something being taken away. At first they said it is permanent, now they're saying indefinitely. Indefinitely means for an unlimited or unspecified time. Permanently means intended to exist for an indefinite period without regard to unforeseeable conditions. You (not you personally) say tomato I say tomahto.

Add this to:

-increased prices every year
-food plan (itself) and how it's destroyed dining in WDW
-increases in food plan prices while taking away what you get for said money
-more and more ticketed events requiring guests who don't want to pay an extra $40ish to leave parks early (even on weekend nights)
-less staff to support guests
-continually changing package delivery to make it less and less, "magical," over the years
-EVERYTHING seeming to be going through refurb at the same time rather than planning it all out so it's less noticeable
-those stupid recorded announcements on the busses being added rather than having the bus drivers actually engage the riders (it was a blast with many bus riders who told jokes, sang songs, gave facts, etc.)
-increasing the prices on character meals constantly
-getting rid of lights in certain areas during Christmas time
-less stickers given out for the kids
-getting rid of the park-specific birthday buttons to replace them with the sterile (i.e. boring) buttons they do now
-increasing the prices for strollers (rentals) to their current (ridiculous) prices
-it costing extra if you want tickets which don't expire
-standardizing the merchandise
-merchandise prices increasing and the quality (generally) falling
-Food quality ridiculously subpar throughout WDW (as a whole)
-Food prices increased to absurd levels throughout WDW (as a whole)

I'm sure I'm missing some things here, this was just quickly off the top of my head. Now, are any one of these things all that big of a deal? Absolutely not. However, at some point, enough has to be enough. Pretty much all of the changes I've mentioned have come under the current regime.

Now, conversely, they have added certain things (new/improved attractions, etc.) and other services so I'm not saying they've done nothing right. I also totally understand they are a for-profit company and they must make decisions based on this fact. However, as I've said before, it doesn't mean I have to like their decisions.

Do we still go? Yes, however, we don't go as much (relatively-speaking as we recently moved to FL) and we certainly don't spend nearly as much. We don't stay on-property any longer. We also sold our DVC membership. The reasons for us doing all of this has been the things Disney has been taking away. Honestly, we're considering going to Universal our next trip down and skipping WDW. We've never thought about doing this much less discussed it.

Will the lack of my dollars bother them? Absolutely not. However, if enough people complain--and spend less--they'll get the point. I've complained about things, spoken with the people in the complaints department and I'm spending less and less money there each year.

It's a shame as I still love a lot about Disney but I'm just getting tired of having to pay for their drive for more profits. I understand I'll always do that whether they make changes I like or not, however, it would be nice if they actually considered the big picture a little more before making all of these small (and they are all small changes taken by themselves) changes. It just doesn't seem as if they really do.

And, as others (myself included) have said, the general guest won't notice these things. The general guest is not someone who returns year after year and (sometimes) multiple times during the year. They're someone who goes once (or maybe twice) so they can't look at all of this and put it into perspective. However, many of us (around here) can put it into perspective. And I'm tired of what they're doing....