Monorail Operating Costs and Reliability

[Josh Hendy]

A couple of other alternatives interest me, but I don't know anything about their cost or engineering factors ... or their potential for being scaled up.

What about the monorail (or whatever it is) at MCO? Is this an actually viable technology, to use for example to get around 7 Seas Lagoon, or between the 4 parks and Disney Springs? I'm assuming that the track is not astronomically expensive and difficult to build and that the trains really are very simple and cheap to operate (i.e. driver less and manager-less). And they seem to be completely self-loading.

The WEDway system also seems quite simple, almost primitive, and a little slow. But it's a people-mover. Somewhat open to the elements, but the question of carpet, smells and driver safety doesn't come up at all. Other than supervising the loading there seems to be no real human input required and I've never heard of it breaking down and needing Reedy Creek to come to the rescue. I would rather ride on a WEDway from TTC to MK entrance than a ferry boat any day. Or line up for a smelly, crowded monorail. At its maximum speed of 15 mph or whatever it goes, I might even be persuaded to ride it to Epcot or DAK if the scenery was pleasant enough. I.e., slightly plussed-up landscaping and water features.

The existing monorail is just too fancy for its own good ... the pillars, beams, electricity, signalling, switching, enclosed cars with A/C plus drivers, managers, fire department rescue service, etc. etc. Something simpler, slower, cheaper and more reliable would be better.

 

[DDLand]

I sure fully realize what business Disney is in - content and IP management. Take a look at which division generates the most revenue for the company. A hint: it isn't parks and resorts.

Explain the regular closings of attractions and not the openings of new ones. Not sure how long you’ve been visiting WDW, but take a look back when 20K Under the Sea was closed, or Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, or Alien Encounter, or Horizons, or Body Wars. Ask Disney if they were concerned with people’s fond memories of riding those attractions. And since when did the monorail become a 'key storyteller' or 'place setter'?

And those hotel rates are sure doing well, aren't they? That explains converting a third of the Polynesian to DVC. Yeah, because occupancy rates are so high with the cash paying guests.

The big difference between other attractions and the monorail in terms of making a profit is exactly what you stated – they have a hundred dollar cover charge. The monorail doesn’t.

Walt Disney Company is an experience company. Period. The things that guests may experience may be IP based or cool new technologies but it's still an experience. The Parks, movies, books, toys, broadcasting, etc. are all about leveraging the brands to create a consistent experience across multiple platforms. Destroying or ruining experiences is not in Disney's best interest.

Wallrock, this is weak argument.

I'll fancy you though:
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride- Replaced and Winnie the Pooh is very popular.
Alien Encounter- Source of pain for the company. Replaced quickly with Stitch.
Body Wars-Accurate Example, however I have a theory that Disney didn't want a glut of simulaters in the park. Mission Space was to have no comparisons. It was a show stopper. Also keep in mind that it was getting outdated and need of replacement. I don't believe a sponsor was forthcoming. Also the effects were further offset by the opening of Soarin.
Horizons- Difficult Construction Zone, Mission Space came.
20k is perhaps the strongest example.

Overall a weak approach to take, especially after Disney just closed a massive portion of Fantasyland and reopened a new land. Also keep in mind attendance is off the charts. This is not the time to be reducing draws. (Unless replacement is forthcoming)

Most of those attractions were widely regarded as duds by the vast majority of visitors too...


As for monorial being a storyteller, it's one of the most profound storytellers on property. Sharing just why Walt Disney World Resort is different. It uses technologies that no one else uses. It's beautiful. It's also speedy and functional. Why do you think people love it so much? Because it showcases what WDW is.

You really aren't putting two and two together are you? Do you have a guess for why they're able to sell those Resorts for 160 a point (hint, it's not like Disneyland where there's only like 70 villas on property)? They sell that well at least partially due to the monorail. The fact that they sell proves that the monorail creates a draw.

You're exactly right, because people usually pay for parking and then ride the monorial a few times and leave. What you're missing is when people are boarding the monorail they are as good as entering the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

 

[DDLand]

As I mentioned above, show me a four hour wait to ride the monorail for fun and I’ll agree with you. Next time you ride the monorail, or any other mode of transportation there, take a look at the faces around you. In the morning they’re all interested in their destination. In the afternoon the heads are hung low, they’re holding passed out kiddos or have their heads buried in their smartphones. Hardly definitions of people absorbing their transportation experience.

That's funny because the monorail is specifically designed not to have wait times. You do understand that the monorail hourly capacity is several multiples greater then other E Tickets? I've seen some of that. I've also seen little kids looking out the window in delight asking their parents questions. People underneath waving at the driver and trying to get him to honk the horn. Watching guests get excited as it pulls into the station. Some people love it. It makes their day. Others could care less. Some people would rather be shot then go on Spaceship Earth. Others hate the idea of TT. All guest are different. It's just a large proportion of guest love monorail.

So 50 million annual guests are furious? As I mentioned above a sampling from posts on this forum doesn’t provide an overall pulse of the visitors. I’ve stated it numerous times; ninety percent of the onsite guests never have to touch the monorail. Why would they be furious for something that doesn’t impact them in the slightest? Sure a small handful may have a desire to ride for fun, but if it isn’t there they aren’t going to stop their feet in frustration and walk back to their resort in protest.

Well that would be if monorail was out of service 365 days a year. So no, 50 million people aren't furious. Also 50 million people do not ride the monorail each year. I'm just thinking of the millions of guests who don't stay on property or who are Florida locals. It always seems like the Magic Kingdom Parking lot has a few cars in it. Maybe they were a mirage. My angry remarks comment comes from a monorail manager over at WDWmagic who said life was terrible when the monorail is out. The amount of hate he gets is off the charts when that happens. Though you could make the same remark about any MK attraction. No one attraction is make or break. However the sentiments towards the collective whole is important. The monorail is a major experience and boost of goodwill for the company at large. No one is going to walk off property if BTMR goes down (they may stomp their feet) Same thing here.

There’s a slight difference here. The tools being put in place for the buses are for the guests’ benefit (and I’m sure Disney management as well). I don’t recall anything stated about the current modifications on the monorail including a minute by minute status of when the next monorail is due. It’s being done to automate the system, which in my opinion is happening to reduce their liability insurance costs more than anything. Automation has a tendency to do that.

Also what happens is when computers take over they can make pretty good estimates of arrival. Disney has said that one of the benefits is the ability to have accurate and predictable wait times. They've also said the monorail will be speedier and more efficient. Also safer.

I'm not sure which one is more for guest benefit...

Why would they spend millions on a product that was going out the door?

 

[rteetz]

A couple of other alternatives interest me, but I don't know anything about their cost or engineering factors ... or their potential for being scaled up.

What about the monorail (or whatever it is) at MCO? Is this an actually viable technology, to use for example to get around 7 Seas Lagoon, or between the 4 parks and Disney Springs? I'm assuming that the track is not astronomically expensive and difficult to build and that the trains really are very simple and cheap to operate (i.e. driver less and manager-less). And they seem to be completely self-loading.

The WEDway system also seems quite simple, almost primitive, and a little slow. But it's a people-mover. Somewhat open to the elements, but the question of carpet, smells and driver safety doesn't come up at all. Other than supervising the loading there seems to be no real human input required and I've never heard of it breaking down and needing Reedy Creek to come to the rescue. I would rather ride on a WEDway from TTC to MK entrance than a ferry boat any day. Or line up for a smelly, crowded monorail. At its maximum speed of 15 mph or whatever it goes, I might even be persuaded to ride it to Epcot or DAK if the scenery was pleasant enough. I.e., slightly plussed-up landscaping and water features.

The existing monorail is just too fancy for its own good ... the pillars, beams, electricity, signalling, switching, enclosed cars with A/C plus drivers, managers, fire department rescue service, etc. etc. Something simpler, slower, cheaper and more reliable would be better.

The monorail at MCO is a monorail an is similar to the WDW one. I know MCO is going to be getting some major upgrades and the monorail is part of that. That monorail is strictly automated and for moving guests to point a to point b. If Disney were to build something like this they might as well just expand the existing monorail because it isn't much different. It would still be expensive because the distance to other WDW destinations is farther than a terminal to baggage.

The WedWay system is something that Walt wanted all over his version of WDW. He wanted that to basically the main way of transportation while the monorail be the centerpiece. I do think this would be more difficult to put everywhere tho.

The existing monorail has served its purpose for the time being. Something slower would not be good for Disney that would make delays in the transportation of guests. They want to get guests to their destination in a quick and efficient way.

 

[rteetz]

That's funny because the monorail is specifically designed not to have wait times. You do understand that the monorail hourly capacity is several multiples greater then other E Tickets? I've seen some of that. I've also seen little kids looking out the window in delight asking their parents questions. People underneath waving at the driver and trying to get him to honk the horn. Watching guests get excited as it pulls into the station. Some people love it. It makes their day. Others could care less. Some people would rather be shot then go on Spaceship Earth. Others hate the idea of TT. All guest are different. It's just a large proportion of guest love monorail.

Well that would be if monorail was out of service 365 days a year. So no, 50 million people aren't furious. Also 50 million people do not ride the monorail each year. I'm just thinking of the millions of guests who don't stay on property or who are Florida locals. It always seems like the Magic Kingdom Parking lot has a few cars in it. Maybe they were a mirage. My angry remarks comment comes from a monorail manager over at WDWmagic who said life was terrible when the monorail is out. The amount of hate he gets is off the charts when that happens. Though you could make the same remark about any MK attraction. No one attraction is make or break. However the sentiments towards the collective whole is important. The monorail is a major experience and boost of goodwill for the company at large. No one is going to walk off property if BTMR goes down (they may stomp their feet) Same thing here.



Also what happens is when computers take over they can make pretty good estimates of arrival. Disney has said that one of the benefits is the ability to have accurate and predictable wait times. They've also said the monorail will be speedier and more efficient. Also safer.

I'm not sure which one is more for guest benefit...

Why would they spend millions on a product that was going out the door?

They bought brand new trams for the backlot tour that cost millions and look they are now in a scrap yard. I'm not saying they would do the same with the monorails because I don't think they would but I wouldn't put it past disney to spend millions and then get rid of it.

 

[DDLand]

They bought brand new trams for the backlot tour that cost millions and look they are now in a scrap yard. I'm not saying they would do the same with the monorails because I don't think they would but I wouldn't put it past disney to spend millions and then get rid of it.

That's valid. Theories have been made as to that happened. You know them. I'm not sure if that was quite the same level as investment or involvement. They could've placed the contract years ago for as far as we know. That is an interesting discrepancy though.

One Disney probably does not want to repeat.

 

[rteetz]

That's valid. Theories have been made as to that happened. You know them. I'm not sure if that was quite the same level as investment or involvement. They could've placed the contract years ago for as far as we know. That is an interesting discrepancy though.

One Disney probably does not want to repeat.

It was just a point I wanted to bring up to show that Disney would invest into something and then get rid of it. I'm sure it's happened before that as well and I'm sure it will happen after that. Lost of companies go through those types of things.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I agree with you completely that light rail and site to site transport systems are a MUCH better option..

The problem is its capital investment with 0% potential of revenue or profit generation...

Would people love it? Absolutely...

Would anyone book a trip because of it?
Absolutely not.

Just like no monorails would likely effect business little if any...a new system wouldn't either.

Well my friend, we never agree on every thing, I still stand on the fact many people consider the various WDW transportation systems as part of the show!


We will have to wait and see what time brings.

AKK

 

[George4]

And those hotel rates are sure doing well, aren't they? That explains converting a third of the Polynesian to DVC. Yeah, because occupancy rates are so high with the cash paying guests.

I really hate when these threads become arguments, but I think a polite debate of different ideas is valid and welcome. It seems that some of these posts (not the one quoted) are getting a little rude and abrasive.

That being said, I did want to point out an alternate idea here. The hotels are actually at or near capacity for big chunks of the year. DVC does two things for each hotels and the parks - evens out the attendance (DVC travelers are often at low times of the year) and they maintenance fees that cover the costs of operating the hotel. It guarantees that the hotel bills are paid for so it costs Disney nothing to operate the facility. In essence, it means an empty room is costing Disney nothing, and that every paying guest is, in essence, pure profit for Disney because the DVC guests have already covered the costs. At split resorts like GF and Poly, DVC covers that portion of the hotel costs (not the entire cost), but again, evens out attendance and keeps some costs completely under control. It is a smart accounting decision, so long as people keep purchasing DVC units. Since they are still purchasing, it is a good financial decision for Disney.

 

[disneynutz]

The monorail is as iconic as the castle to Disney, they will operate it no matter what the cost.

They will not increase it's service area. They will continue to make improvements to increase safety and to reduce operator interaction and to improve dispatch times.

Bill

 

[wallrock]

Walt Disney Company is an experience company. Period. The things that guests may experience may be IP based or cool new technologies but it's still an experience. The Parks, movies, books, toys, broadcasting, etc. are all about leveraging the brands to create a consistent experience across multiple platforms. Destroying or ruining experiences is not in Disney's best interest.

Wallrock, this is weak argument.

I'll fancy you though:
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride- Replaced and Winnie the Pooh is very popular.
Alien Encounter- Source of pain for the company. Replaced quickly with Stitch.
Body Wars-Accurate Example, however I have a theory that Disney didn't want a glut of simulaters in the park. Mission Space was to have no comparisons. It was a show stopper. Also keep in mind that it was getting outdated and need of replacement. I don't believe a sponsor was forthcoming. Also the effects were further offset by the opening of Soarin.
Horizons- Difficult Construction Zone, Mission Space came.
20k is perhaps the strongest example.

Overall a weak approach to take, especially after Disney just closed a massive portion of Fantasyland and reopened a new land. Also keep in mind attendance is off the charts. This is not the time to be reducing draws. (Unless replacement is forthcoming)

Most of those attractions were widely regarded as duds by the vast majority of visitors too...


As for monorial being a storyteller, it's one of the most profound storytellers on property. Sharing just why Walt Disney World Resort is different. It uses technologies that no one else uses. It's beautiful. It's also speedy and functional. Why do you think people love it so much? Because it showcases what WDW is.

You really aren't putting two and two together are you? Do you have a guess for why they're able to sell those Resorts for 160 a point (hint, it's not like Disneyland where there's only like 70 villas on property)? They sell that well at least partially due to the monorail. The fact that they sell proves that the monorail creates a draw.

You're exactly right, because people usually pay for parking and then ride the monorial a few times and leave. What you're missing is when people are boarding the monorail they are as good as entering the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

We're not going to agree on this subject and that's fine, however you can't state that the attractions I mentioned are perceived as duds to visitors. There were more than a few displeased guests when those attractions were closed. And the point isn't that they were replaced - it was a response to your statement that Disney wouldn't take time-loved attractions and shut them down. The fact that Disney shut them down is proof that nothing is sacred, which is one of the principal ideas of the park in the first place.

I enjoy the monorails as much as others and I've made that statement more than once, however I have no doubt given Disney's recent behavior that they would consider shutting them down when they become too much of a financial liability. I base that behavior on the facts in front of me; the monorails run less frequently than they used to, the boat capacity between the three monorail resorts and the Magic Kingdom has been increased, there is now a bus line that connects all three of the resorts, the aforementioned statement that Disney doesn't consider any attraction immune from removal and that the monorail only services a small portion of guests when compared to other modes of transportation.

Do I want them to go away? No. Do I think they will go away eventually? Yes.

 

[wallrock]

I really hate when these threads become arguments, but I think a polite debate of different ideas is valid and welcome. It seems that some of these posts (not the one quoted) are getting a little rude and abrasive.

That being said, I did want to point out an alternate idea here. The hotels are actually at or near capacity for big chunks of the year. DVC does two things for each hotels and the parks - evens out the attendance (DVC travelers are often at low times of the year) and they maintenance fees that cover the costs of operating the hotel. It guarantees that the hotel bills are paid for so it costs Disney nothing to operate the facility. In essence, it means an empty room is costing Disney nothing, and that every paying guest is, in essence, pure profit for Disney because the DVC guests have already covered the costs. At split resorts like GF and Poly, DVC covers that portion of the hotel costs (not the entire cost), but again, evens out attendance and keeps some costs completely under control. It is a smart accounting decision, so long as people keep purchasing DVC units. Since they are still purchasing, it is a good financial decision for Disney.

Yet I'm the one that's quoted (and I mean that in the most humorous and light-hearted way).

Not to worry, no offense taken. It's not my intent to be abrasive. Blunt yes, but not abrasive. The meaning of some statements don't always come across as precise as they should in written discussions.

In the workplace I'm used to 'duking it out' verbally with peers on approaches to solving problems. I know that doesn't always translate well in other venues. Point taken.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well my friend, we never agree on every thing, I still stand on the fact many people consider the various WDW transportation systems as part of the show!


We will have to wait and see what time brings.

AKK

I'm not even disagreeing with this point..

But I don't think it effects booking or travel except in unique circumstances.

$8000 for a week and tickets at poly with the monorails?
No problem

$8000 for a week and tickets at poly with only buses and boats?
DEAL BREAKER!!! no way!

???

I don't see it.

You can certainly point out the monorail is an experience...

But it is a fleeting/ passing one if you're honest with yourselves.

 

[DDLand]

We're not going to agree on this subject and that's fine, however you can't state that the attractions I mentioned are perceived as duds to visitors. There were more than a few displeased guests when those attractions were closed. And the point isn't that they were replaced - it was a response to your statement that Disney wouldn't take time-loved attractions and shut them down. The fact that Disney shut them down is proof that nothing is sacred, which is one of the principal ideas of the park in the first place.

I enjoy the monorails as much as others and I've made that statement more than once, however I have no doubt given Disney's recent behavior that they would consider shutting them down when they become too much of a financial liability. I base that behavior on the facts in front of me; the monorails run less frequently than they used to, the boat capacity between the three monorail resorts and the Magic Kingdom has been increased, there is now a bus line that connects all three of the resorts, the aforementioned statement that Disney doesn't consider any attraction immune from removal and that the monorail only services a small portion of guests when compared to other modes of transportation.

Do I want them to go away? No. Do I think they will go away eventually? Yes.

Indeed.

Even Spaceship Earth was on the chopping block a couple years ago because it lacked widespread appeal. If that was in danger, then I can confidently say many were duds in the public's eyes. I think it's telling about the people of today that Horizons was replaced with a thrill ride...

Explain the regular closings of attractions and not the openings of new ones

Okay, I misunderstood the red.

It's true only if it fails to remain relevant and loved. That's the bar. Monorail meets both requirements.

1) Monorail is on track to run more once upgrades are complete.
2)The monorail does much more then the Resort boats. It shuttles millions on the Express line each year. If I had to guess the most popular line it would be express. It's not as if a few extra busses servicing GFR, PVR, and CR can also start shuttling millions of the guests at the TTC. If you've ever been to the bus stop in the evening you probably don't like the idea of more people. Now add the thousands who park at TTC and it won't be pretty. They would have to upgrade the bus stops extensively as well as upgrade road infrastructure on World Drive to handle the additonal traffic. That's also ignoring the large bus purchases that would have to be made. There's the other option of upgrading the boat fleet. Problem is currently the ferry system is working at or near capacity and there's very little room for new docks. A serious problem.
3) Disney only removes stuff when there's little interest, it's aged poorly, or it's in the way for something larger.
4) Monorail services millions of people each year.

I'm glad we both don't want them to go away!

 

[sachilles]

Forgetting costs for a minute, the logistics of moving people is the first concern.

Issue 1 is car traffic to mk. You have to park on the other side of the lake, then take some sort of transport to the park. That is kind of silly. Build a parking area west of MK, allowing guests to walk in, or a parking tram. It leaves the monorail and boats as resort guests only as well as joy riders. The long term cost savings compared to building any new transportation technology would seem to be there. Don't want waste a ton of prime space on an open lot, it could be condensed into a garage foot print, themed to the hilt, and still cheaper to build and maintain than a transport device.

Issue 2 is resort traffic. What resorts do not go to mk by bus(primarily)? Poly and Gf. If the current monorail can be maintained without overwhelming costs, then two rails should serve just fine, along with ferry boats. Of course the bus can also be used. Also strikes me as odd, that a walking path to Gf has never been completed. I know the light show barges have to come out of the canal, but I think a pedestrian bridge would be a relatively cheap solution.

Issue 3 is Epcot. The transportation center parking area is convenient to park hop for those splitting time between Epcot and Mk. Moving parking next MK would eliminate that option, but nothing says that you would have to eliminate that parking area....though I'm sure it could be developed into something else.

Unless you can truly eliminate most of the busses, I don't think it's practical to invest in another light rail(or pods or whatever) project.

If the public were behind a rail project linking mco, with universal and disney, then maybe that would happen. However the realist in me sees too many special interest groups sabotaging the project.

My last random thought for now is the transportation center. It was a good idea when it was just mk and Epcot. In WDW's current incarnation, it's really in a poor spot. That is a poor use of good real estate. I'm betting if the monorail didn't exist, the transportation center would have moved ages ago. Better off having your hub at a big gift shop like disney springs. Close to the interstate and plenty of gift shops to spend your money on the way in and out.

 

[wallrock]

Indeed.

Even Spaceship Earth was on the chopping block a couple years ago because it lacked widespread appeal. If that was in danger, then I can confidently say many were duds in the public's eyes. I think it's telling about the people of today that Horizons was replaced with a thrill ride...

There's only one reason Spaceship Earth won't go away, and it's not because of a strong devotion. Even if Disney wanted to get rid of it they couldn't.

Whether it was intended or not when Epcot was built Disney put themselves in a pickle with Spaceship Earth - it overhangs the only realistic way in or out for the masses. Yes folks can exit by the Beach Club, but the whole park can't exit through there. If you shut down Spaceship Earth with plans of a massive overhaul or structural change - basically anything that requires blocking off the area - then you've blocked the main entrance and exit. If there was a dangerous situation I'm sure folks could be escorted through a maze of side pathways near The Living Seas or Universe of Energy, but it would be far from efficient and nothing that Disney could do on a daily basis.

Disney, whether they like it or not, is stuck with it and the limited options they have with changes.

Okay, I misunderstood the red.

It's true only if it fails to remain relevant and loved. That's the bar. Monorail meets both requirements.

1) Monorail is on track to run more once upgrades are complete.
2)The monorail does much more then the Resort boats. It shuttles millions on the Express line each year. If I had to guess the most popular line it would be express. It's not as if a few extra busses servicing GFR, PVR, and CR can also start shuttling millions of the guests at the TTC. If you've ever been to the bus stop in the evening you probably don't like the idea of more people. Now add the thousands who park at TTC and it won't be pretty. They would have to upgrade the bus stops extensively as well as upgrade road infrastructure on World Drive to handle the additonal traffic. That's also ignoring the large bus purchases that would have to be made. There's the other option of upgrading the boat fleet. Problem is currently the ferry system is working at or near capacity and there's very little room for new docks. A serious problem.
3) Disney only removes stuff when there's little interest, it's aged poorly, or it's in the way for something larger.
4) Monorail services millions of people each year.

I'm glad we both don't want them to go away!

The point around the use of the bus line between the three resorts was to illustrate that the monorail isn't needed anymore should Joe and Jane Family staying at the Grand Floridian decide on a Chef Mickey's character breakfast. They now have an option other than the monorail to get there. I don't think it was ever intended to service folks at the TTC. Further, someone else in this thread pointed out that there has to be a group of buses on reserve so to speak should the monorail be unavailable, so the infrastructure is more or less already in place. Don't think in millions of guests to be shuttled - think of how many per day need to be shuttled. Again I don't think it's that massive. Keep in mind that in the last year or two Disney expanded the bus terminal at the Magic Kingdom. There's plenty of space there to expand further. Lots of bus space at the TTC too, and a nice little corner for expansion if needed.

Once again, nothing is sacred. If there isn't a reasonable rate of return financially I'm sure its future is questioned.

 

[wallrock]

Issue 2 is resort traffic. What resorts do not go to mk by bus(primarily)? Poly and Gf. If the current monorail can be maintained without overwhelming costs, then two rails should serve just fine, along with ferry boats. Of course the bus can also be used. Also strikes me as odd, that a walking path to Gf has never been completed. I know the light show barges have to come out of the canal, but I think a pedestrian bridge would be a relatively cheap solution.

I recall reading that something was on the books to bridge the canal. Back when Disney was charging folks nearly a hundred bucks for a brick to make the Walk Around The World I think the plan then was to bridge that gap. Bottom line, I think Disney wants to do that and give folks staying at the Polynesian or Grand Floridian an opportunity to walk back. Why they haven't is anyone's guess.

 

[rteetz]

I recall reading that something was on the books to bridge the canal. Back when Disney was charging folks nearly a hundred bucks for a brick to make the Walk Around The World I think the plan then was to bridge that gap. Bottom line, I think Disney wants to do that and give folks staying at the Polynesian or Grand Floridian an opportunity to walk back. Why they haven't is anyone's guess.

Yes there were plans to put a bridge there for walking access. Heck you could put in a bridge that raises so you can get the barges in, they do that at Epcot. No one knows why they haven't completed that walkway.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Walt Disney Company is an experience company. Period. The things that guests may experience may be IP based or cool new technologies but it's still an experience. The Parks, movies, books, toys, broadcasting, etc. are all about leveraging the brands to create a consistent experience across multiple platforms. Destroying or ruining experiences is not in Disney's best interest.

Wallrock, this is weak argument.

I'll fancy you though:
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride- Replaced and Winnie the Pooh is very popular.
Alien Encounter- Source of pain for the company. Replaced quickly with Stitch.
Body Wars-Accurate Example, however I have a theory that Disney didn't want a glut of simulaters in the park. Mission Space was to have no comparisons. It was a show stopper. Also keep in mind that it was getting outdated and need of replacement. I don't believe a sponsor was forthcoming. Also the effects were further offset by the opening of Soarin.
Horizons- Difficult Construction Zone, Mission Space came.
20k is perhaps the strongest example.

Overall a weak approach to take, especially after Disney just closed a massive portion of Fantasyland and reopened a new land. Also keep in mind attendance is off the charts. This is not the time to be reducing draws. (Unless replacement is forthcoming)

Most of those attractions were widely regarded as duds by the vast majority of visitors too...


As for monorial being a storyteller, it's one of the most profound storytellers on property. Sharing just why Walt Disney World Resort is different. It uses technologies that no one else uses. It's beautiful. It's also speedy and functional. Why do you think people love it so much? Because it showcases what WDW is.

You really aren't putting two and two together are you? Do you have a guess for why they're able to sell those Resorts for 160 a point (hint, it's not like Disneyland where there's only like 70 villas on property)? They sell that well at least partially due to the monorail. The fact that they sell proves that the monorail creates a draw.

You're exactly right, because people usually pay for parking and then ride the monorial a few times and leave. What you're missing is when people are boarding the monorail they are as good as entering the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

Honestly, the discussion is over...

Because you keep digging deeper with blanket excuses for what has been a clear policy of cost cutting and downsizing in the parks RELATIVE to what a theme park requires...

If you read the history of amusement parks (I know...not great Disney...but still hair splitting)...reductions and stagnation had always killed the industry. To a 100% certainty.

The policy at wdw over the last 15 years has been a headfake...little addition, quiet reduction, while squeezing water from the dvc rocks with heavy construction.

All is lost? No.
But for the leadership to continue to worry about their options and think that simply owning the rights to characters will be enough... Without the synergy that they developed in the 50's and 60's and relaunched in the 80's and 90's...they're setting themselves up for trouble.

We'll just have to disagree here.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes there were plans to put a bridge there for walking access. Heck you could put in a bridge that raises so you can get the barges in, they do that at Epcot. No one knows why they haven't completed that walkway.

Indeed... The path extends below monorail track towards the grand and abruptly dead ends by the service canal where the water
Pageant is stored...

It not like they can't/didnt intend to do just that.