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[bellebookworm9]

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[Sosai X]

Have you met with President Christopher C. Dahl to see exactly why the program has been cut, and to discuss if funding can be secured? Have you gone up to Albany, and discussed the situation with your state assemblyman? Have you been out gathering signatures, to start a referendum to get more funding? Have you contacted the alumni association, to see if private funding for the program can be secured?

Really, an internet petition is pointless, and won't bring results. The above suggestions will.

 

[bicker]

Really, an internet petition is pointless, and won't bring results. The above suggestions will.

Yes good points. It is very easy, especially in these days of pervasive entitlement mentality, to fall into the trap of believing that because you demand something then naturally you should receive it. The legitimate way to secure something is to show that it the very best decision possible.

One thing I look for in situations like this is the proposal of a clearly superior alternative. So in this case, what other programs should be cut, representing the cost of continuing the program you want to have restored, or how much taxes should be increased and from which sources. That demonstrates reasonable perspective, and ensures folks who might support you know what they may be hurting by that support.

 

[Pigeon]

I'm so sorry. I work at a different SUNY school, and we are facing program cuts, too. Ours is pretty controversial, too.

I don't think you have an "entitlement mentality" at all because you are upset by an ill-communicated program cut.

The reality is that the state has slashed what was already inadequate funding for public education and there just isn't the money to sustain the current level of programming. There are some things our institution could do to possibly offset some of the cuts in academics, but I doubt the administration will do them.

There is a disappointing lack of transparency about why programs were targeted and what the process was to make the determination. Yet we get documents all the time from the SUNY adminstration listing "transparency" as a key value.

Of course, this while the Chancellor, who makes half a million, got caught in public giving her cronies $30K raises and $60K housing allowances.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I saw on the news here in MO that they are going to be doing the same thing at some of the colleges around here. All you have to do OP is Google "colleges major cuts" to find out that this is across the entire United States.

Here is University of MO at Columbia, just one of our colleges facing cuts.

Representatives from the Missouri Department of Higher Education and several public colleges discussed cutting small academic programs at a meeting earlier this month in Sedalia.

The meeting reviewed new initiatives from Gov. Jay Nixon meant to improve higher education. With these new goals, a review of all degree programs is required, and the department will make a list of academic programs not producing enough graduates.

For undergraduate degree programs, the initiatives target those that have produced 10 or fewer graduates per academic year. The review also targets masters programs with fewer than five degrees per year and doctoral programs with three or fewer graduates.

DHE spokeswoman Kathy Love said the department doesn’t know how many such programs exist in the state or at MU. She said the intent of the review is to increase efficiency.

“The purpose is to reduce costs and unnecessary duplication where possible,” she said in an interview last week. “Many of these programs meet the productivity threshold described above and are valuable and will continue to exist.”

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2010/9/28/majors-few-graduates-possible-cuts/

 

[bicker]

There is a disappointing lack of transparency about why programs were targeted and what the process was to make the determination.

That's a troubling trend in society, in general, a reflection of how costly it is to manage the second-guessing and back-seat driving that would take place if administrative process was opened up to exploitation by those who's personal interests would be best served by inciting mob mentality. Taxpayers are fed up with taxes, and one of the most effective ways to address taxpayer ire is to keep costs down. Not only programs suffer, in that scenario, but transparency, checks-and-balances, and other costly elements of governance validation, suffer as well.

 

[barkley]

my sympathies.


it's happening elsewhere as well. dh is in an education major that is very specialized and the university he attends at is one of i believe only 2 that has offered it within our state.

dh just made the cutoff to get into the program because they stopped accepting new students in 2009. the classes have been severly scaled back because they are being phased out with the major being entirely closed once the current students graduate.

this is one of the rare areas of teaching that is still understaffed, AND our state is in the process of adding more and more high school graduation requirements that fall under it's curriculum. i suspect that rather than having one or more dedicated instructors at a given highschool, the districts will be forced to have instructors assigned to multiple campuses, if they can even find a qualified instructor.

with dh's university it was not the first cut, nor has it been the last. they are slashing programs left and right, and it's not for lack of slashing as much "fat" as possible. there's been a hiring freeze with few exceptions since late 2008. layoffs began in 2009 and any positions that become vacant due to retirements or voluntary leave are up for stringent review, with few getting backfilled. more and more majors are being eliminated or severly cut back.


i don't know what to suggest, it's a state university so the state plays a part but it's ultimatly up to the individual univesity as to what programs they offer, and unless there's a state mandate that a specific program must be offered within the state and there's no other university offering it then it's a difficult battle at best.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

SUNY schools are among the best state universities in America, given quality of education vs. cost. SUNY schools are so because they have been so well managed over time. Sometimes one has to look at the big picture. While this program may be valuable to some, it is clearly not valuable enough to the state in this economy. Unless you can turn up data that would be new to those making this decision, I suspect that you are wasting your time/energy. Better to spend that time/energy looking at your alternatives (other schools or majors).

Good luck.

 

[bellebookworm9]

Have you met with President Christopher C. Dahl to see exactly why the program has been cut, and to discuss if funding can be secured? Have you gone up to Albany, and discussed the situation with your state assemblyman? Have you been out gathering signatures, to start a referendum to get more funding? Have you contacted the alumni association, to see if private funding for the program can be secured?

Really, an internet petition is pointless, and won't bring results. The above suggestions will.

We have not met with the president, but there is a meeting with the Dean of the College tomorrow evening. The petition is directed to the New York State Assembly, and our Student Association is sponsoring buses to take us to Albany, but not until next semester. The Alumni Association is little to no help since the funding they have gathered to help us move into the new building has obviously changed direction, and as a result of this cut I have seen many comments from Alumni who are threatening to stop donating altogether. However, I will talk to the people organizing various measures to stop the cuts, and share your suggestions with them.

Yes good points. It is very easy, especially in these days of pervasive entitlement mentality, to fall into the trap of believing that because you demand something then naturally you should receive it. The legitimate way to secure something is to show that it the very best decision possible.

One thing I look for in situations like this is the proposal of a clearly superior alternative. So in this case, what other programs should be cut, representing the cost of continuing the program you want to have restored, or how much taxes should be increased and from which sources. That demonstrates reasonable perspective, and ensures folks who might support you know what they may be hurting by that support.

I would hardly call this "entitlement" mentality. In face, since it's New York State, I believe that there's a huge chance that doing anything to help bring back the program will have little to no effect. Would I be upset if the program had been cut? Yes. But I'm more upset because of the abrupt way it seems to have been decided, and the professors being encouraged to leave as soon as they find new jobs (because then who is left to keep the program going for another 3 years?), the possible closing of the clinic, and the way the incoming grad students had their decisions revoked.

I really am not sure what other programs could/should be cut. I play the flute and am pretty good at it. In Wind Ensemble the other day, the conductor admitted that the music department is easily one of the most expensive departments at the school, and he's not sure how they escaped being cut. While I am all for the arts, I would gladly never play flute ever again if they would bring back my department.

I'm so sorry. I work at a different SUNY school, and we are facing program cuts, too. Ours is pretty controversial, too.

I don't think you have an "entitlement mentality" at all because you are upset by an ill-communicated program cut.

The reality is that the state has slashed what was already inadequate funding for public education and there just isn't the money to sustain the current level of programming. There are some things our institution could do to possibly offset some of the cuts in academics, but I doubt the administration will do them.

There is a disappointing lack of transparency about why programs were targeted and what the process was to make the determination. Yet we get documents all the time from the SUNY adminstration listing "transparency" as a key value.

Of course, this while the Chancellor, who makes half a million, got caught in public giving her cronies $30K raises and $60K housing allowances.

Yes, on the budget update website it the following question and answer was posted:

"What criteria were used to identify the deactivated programs?
The President and his cabinet, in conjunction with the College's Strategic Planning Group and the Budget Advisory Committee, determined the following criteria to guide resource reallocation:

* Centrality to mission
* Interrelatedness to other programs
* Program sustainability going forward
* Cost
* Quality relative to cost
* Enrollment trends

No one criterion was determinative -- the factors were complex, as were the interactions of the criteria."

We have a fairly high enrollment, and it seems to be steady. Our program quality is excellent, and I'd say we're pretty related to other programs.

I saw on the news here in MO that they are going to be doing the same thing at some of the colleges around here. All you have to do OP is Google "colleges major cuts" to find out that this is across the entire United States.

Here is University of MO at Columbia, just one of our colleges facing cuts.



http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2010/9/28/majors-few-graduates-possible-cuts/

See, while that still isn't great that this college has programs being cut, they seem to be doing it in a logical way. I know our program turns out more than 10 undergrads/year (more like 50), and more than 5/grads per year (around 30). For example, this past May, we had *ONE* graduate in American studies. Why not cut something like that?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...See, while that still isn't great that this college has programs being cut, they seem to be doing it in a logical way. I know our program turns out more than 10 undergrads/year (more like 50), and more than 5/grads per year (around 30). For example, this past May, we had *ONE* graduate in American studies. Why not cut something like that?

That very much depends on what professors are used to teach the classes, and how many of those classes were taken by or specific to only those who have an interest in a specific major. Many classes are taken as electives, not as required courses. When looking at these things, if eliminating a major does not allow the school to reduce staff, how would it help? Unless this is about politics (and, if it is about politics, your cause is lost), it is about money. 30/50 students per year is not going to move the needle at your school, but reducing the staff overhead associated with those 30/50 students might. I suspect that most of those students would still choose your school, just a different major (thought they may lose some Jrs/Srs).

 

[bicker]

I would hardly call this "entitlement" mentality.

Perhaps, but the point I made is that today's environment tends to foster in people thinking that what they want is necessarily better for everyone, even when it isn't entitlement mentality. It's just human nature to latch onto what is such a prevailing aspect of our society and see things a certain way as a result.

Yes, on the budget update website it the following question and answer was posted:

"What criteria were used to identify the deactivated programs?
The President and his cabinet, in conjunction with the College's Strategic Planning Group and the Budget Advisory Committee, determined the following criteria to guide resource reallocation:

* Centrality to mission
* Interrelatedness to other programs
* Program sustainability going forward
* Cost
* Quality relative to cost
* Enrollment trends

No one criterion was determinative -- the factors were complex, as were the interactions of the criteria."

Thanks for posting this. It's great to see it so clearly demonstrated how decisions are often driven by myriad considerations rather than just one or two. We have been discussing this fact in a thread about the TSA this week.

 

[bellebookworm9]

SUNY schools are among the best state universities in America, given quality of education vs. cost. SUNY schools are so because they have been so well managed over time. Sometimes one has to look at the big picture. While this program may be valuable to some, it is clearly not valuable enough to the state in this economy. Unless you can turn up data that would be new to those making this decision, I suspect that you are wasting your time/energy. Better to spend that time/energy looking at your alternatives (other schools or majors).

Good luck.

I applied to another (private) school yesterday. I may/may not actually transfer, but it's nice to have the option. I really don't want to change my major, because I truly enjoy learning about this field and am excited to begin clinic. I also need a grad school that accepts students for spring semester, because I plan to graduate a semester early. This leaves me with very few options. I think there are 4 schools between New York and Florida that accept students in spring.

 

[bellebookworm9]

Thanks for posting this. It's great to see it so clearly demonstrated how decisions are often driven by myriad considerations rather than just one or two. We have been discussing this fact in a thread about the TSA this week.

I posted the suggestions made by you and others on the Facebook group wall that we have started to figure out how best to protest this decision. One student said she called the President's office and was redirected to the "Ask a Budget Question" website. She asked why specifically the Comm Disorders program was cut, and has not received an answer.

 

[momof1princess]

OP, i signed your petition, and wish you the best of luck

 

[tvguy]

If you the program is going to continue until all those currently in it graduate, I'm not sure what the issue is. That seems fair to me. Now, if they ended the program immediately, or in a manner that any currently enrolled students could not graduate, that would be a legitmate complaint.
Not sure how large a major this is, but schools don't cut programs with large numbers of students, because large numbers of students pay large amounts of tuition.

 

[bicker]

Incidentally, the same thing is happening all over the SUNY system, and probably elsewhere as well. Here's the press release affecting SUNY Stony Brook:

http://commcgi.cc.stonybrook.edu/am...BROOK_UNIVERSITY_TO_MAKE_STRATEGIC_CUTS.shtml

 

[Magic Mom]

NPR ran a story about the NY cuts this week.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

See, while that still isn't great that this college has programs being cut, they seem to be doing it in a logical way. I know our program turns out more than 10 undergrads/year (more like 50), and more than 5/grads per year (around 30). For example, this past May, we had *ONE* graduate in American studies. Why not cut something like that?

I do have to add that one of the snags is that the Gov. Jay Nixon has asked for the tution freeze for 2 yrs. The response of the school to that is to make cuts.

I wonder if SUNY has anything similiar?

 

[punkin]

The state has a habit of pillaging the SUNY coffers every time it needs money.

I am sorry this is happening to you, OP.

 

[bellebookworm9]

If you the program is going to continue until all those currently in it graduate, I'm not sure what the issue is. That seems fair to me. Now, if they ended the program immediately, or in a manner that any currently enrolled students could not graduate, that would be a legitmate complaint.
Not sure how large a major this is, but schools don't cut programs with large numbers of students, because large numbers of students pay large amounts of tuition.

The program is *supposed* to continue until we graduate. However, if all the professors find other jobs and leave in the meantime, or if the clinic closes, which we need two semesters of to earn our degree, then what? Also, how is it fair that the graduate students who received their acceptance letters on Thursday had them revoked on Friday? The graduate program takes 18 months to complete, so they would be done well within the 3 year time frame. Since many of them had turned down offers at other schools because they were accepted here, now they don't have a school for January.