Mission Space article

Bob O

<font color=navy>Voice of Reason<br><font color=re
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Mar 2, 2000
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http://www.jimhillmedia.com/nav4/index.htm
After the link click on to the Mission Space article. The article was posted on jan. 20
A very intersting article about what MS could have been and what it will become. What are your thoughts, escpecially with the article in the Orlando Sentinel how disney is losing ground.
 
150-200 million $$$$ for one ride. That's an incredible sum. No wonder a place like Cedar Point opts to spend ONLY 25 mil for their new dragster coaster,which is supposed to be the highest & fastest in the world.
 
So far everything Jim describes is exactly how the attraction is going to work its not the Mission:Space that was GOING to be it is the Mission:Space that IS to be. His view on ADA regulations makes me sick. And to suggest that 300 million is required to build an attraction "right" is ludicrious. Give me a break.
 
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
150-200 million $$$$ for one ride. That's an incredible sum. No wonder a place like Cedar Point opts to spend ONLY 25 mil for their new dragster coaster,which is supposed to be the highest & fastest in the world.

Yes indede. Plus, they've recieved tons of free publicity because of it and they will recieve a return on their investment almost immediatly compared to Disney and M:S.
 

You don't see a slight difference between a single attraction in a park and an entire water park with its own daily admission fee?
 
I understand that the ride mechanism may not have necessarily changed, but I don't think that was the focus of Jim's criticism (or disappointment).

It has been a long while since I read this article, but doesn't Jim refer to the entire pavilian? Seems that he detailed cutbacks in the entire pavilian, which was to include something a simulated space station (that could be entered with or without riding the main attraction.)
 
So far everything Jim describes is exactly how the attraction is going to work its not the Mission:Space that was GOING to be it is the Mission:Space that IS to be. His view on ADA regulations makes me sick. And to suggest that 300 million is required to build an attraction "right" is ludicrious. Give me a break.

I agree, too many of his articles that he writes is one of these "what could have been" articles. All they are is a desription of attractions that wdw could have built if they spend a bigillion million dollars. But it wold have been well spent according to him. :rolleyes:
 
...I absolutely know the difference,but I don't think you understand the point I was making: I find it incredible that a single ride can cost as much as an entire water park, and then have people imply that Disney or HP cheaped out on it so the ride isn't going to be what it should have been. And this is for a ride that no one has even been on. Where does it end ? Entire hospitals don't cost as much as MS.
 
What he points out is what WDI had envisoned for a gtreat attraction and what happens after the the corporate honcho's remove as much as possible to save money with little concern to guest enjoyment and then say they are surprised when the negative reports come in. No different than what AK should have been and what he ended up with and how they were surprised few were wowed by it and that attedance was now where near projections!!
 
I probably won't be able to really take a firm stance on this one until M:S is open and we've seen it, or at least have some confirmation about everything it includes.

I agree, $150-200 million is a huge amount of money for an attraction, and I can't really justify coming down on somebody because they didn't spend $300 million.

My concerns so far stem more from the apparent fact that its just going to be too physically intense for a lot of people. It sounds as if the elements cut would have helped balance that. One way that would have been great would have been to essentially offer two rides. Two ways to make the trip to the space station and back (or wherever it goes). One for the thrill-seekers who can handle the g's and weightlessness, and one for those who can't or don't want to separate from those in their family/group that can't. Of course the "tamer" way would not have to involve such advanced simulator technology, but rather some other mechanism that "forgets" about trying to simulate the physical aspects of spaceflight, while still providing an immersive experience.

I know, more expensive....but it would be a way to satisfy both the Disney guests that like Disney because they have lots of things to do that don't spin/flip you, and the Disney guests that want to experience the physical motion. And Compaq is putting in a fair chunk of change, correct?

Yes, it would cost a lot, but it could be well worth it. You would essentially have two attractions. Many would want to take both routes. With the space station and perhaps other parts of the attraction being "common areas" it would cost less than two entirely different attractions, but could have the same benefit.

But I digress....
 
Offering two ride, one a watered down attraction of the same nature would be a major waste of money and money well spent on other attractions. They should build the ride like they want it with the proper warnings and those who dont want to ride dont have too!!! But that is no reason to dumbdown an attraction!!! if we are going to use that type of thinking lets build two of every ride, one lame and one thrilling!!
 
Jim implies from his telling of the tale that WDI didn't scrap its plans to use the old Horizons building until after the attraction was gutted. I hate to say this, but WDI does not just go into a massive project like this without knowing for sure how they are going to anchor it. Long before Horizons closed for its final time, it was known that the building was not structurally sound enough to make it viable for preserving for a new attraction expected to last at least another twenty years. The Mission: Space project was approved on the basis of a new building, and no work was done on either Horizons or Mission prior to a budget approval. Unfortunately, this time Jim and his wishful dreaming have many of the facts wrong.
 
They should build the ride like they want it with the proper warnings and those who dont want to ride dont have too!!!
if we are going to use that type of thinking lets build two of every ride, one lame and one thrilling!!
Bob, I'm sorry if "less physical thrill" equals "dumbed down" or "lame" in your version of the world.

I'm not talking about a "dumbed down" version. I'm talking about something that appeals to those that do not consider the "when new" versions of Pirates, Spaceship Earth, The Haunted Mansion, and The American Adventure to be "dumbed down" attractions.

On the contrary, this would be a trip into and through Space that relies not on a ride mechanism, but instead on other effects and storytelling techniques to entertain, and even thrill, Disney guests.

If that type of thing does not appeal to someone, why on Earth would they be paying to go to WDW?
 
150-200 million $$$$ for one ride. That's an incredible sum. No wonder a place like Cedar Point opts to spend ONLY 25 mil for their new dragster coaster,which is supposed to be the highest & fastest in the world.
It is the highest and the fastest in the world. Also remember Cedar doesn't the revenue streams that WDW has. Resorts, shops, restaurants, etc.

Compare to scale (although the two company's niche's are different) and the attraction investments are probably pretty similar.

I don't want to be Cedar's cheer leader here....I've never been there. They are just an example of a company which is in the amuesment business who is investing heavily in their park.

You don't see a slight difference between a single attraction in a park and an entire water park with its own daily admission fee?
It's the parks, made up of attractions, which bring the guests to WDW. Water parks, while very nice, are supplements to the theme parks. The water parks aren't shown on the TV ads. The theme parks are.

I find it incredible that a single ride can cost as much as an entire water park, and then have people imply that Disney or HP cheaped out on it so the ride isn't going to be what it should have been.
I think it was retarded for Compaq (and later HP) to sponsor a Multimillion dollar attraction in a theme park. Period. Has the fact that AT&T sponsored Spaship Earth made you change your long distance providor? Has the fact that Fed Ex sponsored Space Mountain made you forgo the postal service? Has the fact that GM sponsored Test Track made you purchase a chevy?

No. It's a stupid waste of money for publicly traded companies to upgrade Disney's theme parks for them.

That said...

I think it was cheap of Disney to only use the money given to them in a sponsorship deal to make a ride which enhances THEIR park...the one I pay money for....the one Disney profits from. Why not match it? Imagine what they could have built with HP & Disney money.

Offering two ride, one a watered down attraction of the same nature would be a major waste of money and money well spent on other attractions. They should build the ride like they want it with the proper warnings and those who dont want to ride dont have too!!! But that is no reason to dumbdown an attraction!!! if we are going to use that type of thinking lets build two of every ride, one lame and one thrilling!!
Bob,

Maybe not two of the same ride, but one thrill ride, and then a smaller, tamer ride inside the pavilion. Two different experinces, but something for everyone under one roof. Less split up time for families.

Jim implies from his telling of the tale that WDI didn't scrap its plans to use the old Horizons building until after the attraction was gutted. I hate to say this, but WDI does not just go into a massive project like this without knowing for sure how they are going to anchor it. Long before Horizons closed for its final time, it was known that the building was not structurally sound enough to make it viable for preserving for a new attraction expected to last at least another twenty years. The Mission: Space project was approved on the basis of a new building, and no work was done on either Horizons or Mission prior to a budget approval. Unfortunately, this time Jim and his wishful dreaming have many of the facts wrong.
He's Nahtaengineer

FYI...let's not get too carried away about this article. It was written MONTHS, if not years ago. I believe it originally was on Mouseplanet during Jim's stint there...so it's hardly new material. It's a look back at some of Jim's work. So don't take him to task now that some of the facts have changed since this article was originally published.
 
Dear Viking, I clearly misunderstood your tone. I apologize for my mistake. No worries, it seems we are in total agreement.

As for HB2K, it looks like you did the same thing to me (I'm sure unintentional as well) that I did to the Viking.

Gosh, it's hard to read these things....
 
M. HBK2:

I understand your frustration, but I believe the $150 million "investment" was more of a trade in services...if Disney agreed to purchase certain HP technology would HP turn around and 'invest' that money in the advertising potential with M:S. I see no reason for one company to 'partner' with another company for mutual benefit.

M. Bobo: I don't think you are quite getting the picture that M. Raidermatt is talking about. Imagine if Spaceship Earth had a thrilling ride at the end of the transporter part. That way, both TeenBoy and--how do you call them--Crumbcruncher can enjoy the PAVILION (boy wasn't that cool when Epcot's focus was on those) together, with Dad, Mom, & Teenboy hitting the fast ride, while Crumbcruncher and Gramma ride back down on the return vehicles.

Nuttin' wrong with that.
 
"I think it was retarded for Compaq (and later HP) to sponsor a Multimillion dollar attraction in a theme park. Period. Has the fact that AT&T sponsored Spaship Earth made you change your long distance providor? Has the fact that Fed Ex sponsored Space Mountain made you forgo the postal service? Has the fact that GM sponsored Test Track made you purchase a chevy?"

I beg to differ. Isn't the whole idea behind advertising name recognition. I think people will buy GM products because of TT, as well as HP computors, and so on. Many years ago Chevy started making school buses. Not because it was profitable-cause it wasn't- but because they wanted school kids to see that Chevy bow tie on the front of the bus every morning.
 
I beg to differ. Isn't the whole idea behind advertising name recognition. I think people will buy GM products because of TT, as well as HP computors, and so on. Many years ago Chevy started making school buses. Not because it was profitable-cause it wasn't- but because they wanted school kids to see that Chevy bow tie on the front of the bus every morning.
Marketing your brand is one thing. But the cost of building an attraction is absurd. How much advertising could be done with that money? Think of the magazine inserts, TV & Radio Ads, etc.

Instead companys such as HP build one ride, with one consumer touch. It's poor marketing, and it's why so many of Disney's longtime sponsors are dropping off the program (AT&T, FedEx, etc).

Chevy doesn't make schoolbusses for charity. There's is a cost for each bus which comes out of the taxes you pay.

I understand your frustration, but I believe the $150 million "investment" was more of a trade in services...if Disney agreed to purchase certain HP technology would HP turn around and 'invest' that money in the advertising potential with M:S. I see no reason for one company to 'partner' with another company for mutual benefit.
So let me get this straight, I pay you so you buy my produts?

Compaq made the deal for Mission Space. Rumor had it that HP was looking for an excuse to break the deal when they merged.
 
HB2K - the story I have from someone inside HP is that HP is more than happy with their Disney relationship - and they intend to expand it.

The Disney - [Compaq - HP] deal was a 'you scratch mine - I'll scratch yours' deal all the way around. Compaq committed to $100 million worth of advertising on GO.COM in exchange for Disney buying server hardware from Compaq/HP at a heavily discounted price (cost?) plus the HP logo goes on all the Disney webpages.

It didn't 'cost' Compaq/HP much (if anything) - they would have sold the servers to Disney at a big discount anyway (Fortune 500 don't pay 'retail'), and perhaps Disney would have gotten a better deal from Dell anyway...

Compaq/HP hands Disney $100M of advertising revenue money to try to bouy up Disney's faltering internet portal (which did finally sink) then Disney turns around and hands the $100M back to Compaq/HP for their hardware.

Basically Disney corp. 'laundered' $100M through Compaq/HP to GO.COM.

Ain't corporate finance wonderful? :-)
 





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