Mission Accomplished

[DawnCt1]

These days you're more likely to get labeled and marginalized speaking in support of Bush, have you noticed?

I am not one of people saying that we have to stay in Iraq. The face of this war has changed over time, from war against Iraq to war alongside Iraq...I form my opinions on an ongoing basis from the people who are there. Mistakes were made in the process, of that I'm sure. But if Joe Soldier-on-the-Ground tells me that there is still a job to do and he's doing it, that work is getting done, that changes are happening, that bad guys remain, that people are becoming more united against bad guys, that diplomatic efforts are bearing fruit and unfamiliar political processes are gradually being adopted, etc., this carries huge weight. Yes, we made mistakes - so did everyone else. The UN failed Iraqis. The British did before that. The Arab League failed Iraqis. The international press failed them. We failed them two or three times before actually deposing Saddam - solidifying his grip on the country, probably.

I see myself on the side of the people seeking self-determination and fighting against oppression, exploitation, tyranny and mass murder. To me Saddam represented the latter, and then the militias; for others the choice wasn't and isn't so clear-cut. I understand that. But I also think that Americans are hard-wired to stand with others fighting in self-defense. Nothing makes me more proud. Whatever happens from here on, we fought, we spent, we built, we suffered, and we did stay the course this long, on behalf of Iraqis. No amount of European belittling, Russian disapproval, or tired Middle East victimology is going to change that.

Excellent points. In addition I might add, we are also fighting a proxy war with Iran. It is Iran providing the WMDs, missiles, and insurgents that are attacking Iraqis and killing our soldiers.

 

[CPT Tripss]

How ironic that Saddam topples and Iran becomes his proxy. I wonder where the Parrot's Beak will be in this game of dominos?

Anybody want to define "victory" yet?

 

[DawnCt1]

How ironic that Saddam topples and Iran becomes his proxy. I wonder where the Parrot's Beak will be in this game of dominos?

Anybody want to define "victory" yet?

Iran is not Saddam's proxy, they are fighting to disrupt the middle east and the beneficiary is only themselves....

 

[ChrisFL]

We still are on the path to staying on top, despite the fact that we effectively subsidize the military of many of the countries you happen to feel are doing well in education and health care. They know that they can depend on the USA if they come under attack by an enemy. Our strong defense is their strong defense.

So they're far better in education and healthcare because we have military bases in those countries?

 

[salmoneous]

It is Iran providing the WMDs, missiles, and insurgents that are attacking Iraqis and killing our soldiers.

WMD???? Here we go again......

 

[dcentity2000]

WMD???? Here we go again......

You got it all wrong! WMD stands for Weapons of Mass Disappearance

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Rich::

 

[Master Mason]

So what's your solution? Let the military continue lay down their lives, while breaking things and killing people "because, just because?" Or are you writing a new verse for The Clash . . . "Should I Stay or Should I Go?"

If there is no metric for victory, then GO!

LYEAG - I think the sad reality is that innocents will continue to die at the hands of their countrymen whether we stay or we go. They were dying at Saddam's hands and in that regard nothing has changed except perhaps the politics and "faction" of the killed.

NO what I am advocating is for someone to grow a pair and define what victory is.

 

[DawnCt1]

So they're far better in education and healthcare because we have military bases in those countries?

First of all, I disagree that they are better in education and healthcare. They can afford however to funnel more money to social programs because they know if they need to be defended, the USA will be there to defend them.

 

[LakeAriel]

We still are on the path to staying on top, despite the fact that we effectively subsidize the military of many of the countries you happen to feel are doing well in education and health care. They know that they can depend on the USA if they come under attack by an enemy. Our strong defense is their strong defense.

What kind of double speak is that? It is like not a recession, a downward turn.

On the path

 

[Notatourist]

Excellent points. In addition I might add, we are also fighting a proxy war with Iran. It is Iran providing the WMDs, missiles, and insurgents that are attacking Iraqis and killing our soldiers.

Excuse me, Dawn? Can you provide links to this? Also, keep in mind that the Taliban is back in FULL FORCE in AFGHANISTAN. You think it might be them?

Also, wouldn't it be great if our strong defense was that, ours? We don't have to be the world's policemen. If we really did police the world, would tibet have occurred? What about Nigeria? We have lost our right to claim we're the best in the world when we invade.

 

[bimshire]

We don't have to be the world's policemen.

We are the world's policemen because Bush is a compassionate conservative.

 

[Charade]

Yes, it was.

 

[Cor44432]

A proxy war with Iran?

So it IS Vietnam all over again......wasn't that a proxy war with the Soviet Union?

The truth is, this administration either fabricated, embellished, sensationalized, or completely blew out of proportion every shred of evidence for going to war.
Then to make matters worse, they had no clue about what to do with the occupation, and here we stand today......Bush asking for tens of billions of more dollars (that he has no plan whatsoever on how to pay for) for his little war game.

 

[Master Mason]

Bush asking for tens of billions of more dollars (that he has no plan whatsoever on how to pay for) for his little war game.

yes but he can only ask, the DEMOCRATIC congress is the one that keeps writing the checks, don't forget that fact.

 

[Charade]

yes but he can only ask, the DEMOCRATIC congress is the one that keeps writing the checks, don't forget that fact.

And if they had any interest in really putting a stop to this war, they would have grown a set of cajones and vote NO to all Iraq war spending.

But they don't and didn't.

They're playing politics as usual.

 

[ChrisFL]

First of all, I disagree that they are better in education and healthcare.

why does that not surprise me?

 

[Alaska DogCat]

Five years...4,000+ dead. Gas at or above $4 per gallon. Food shortages. Trillions spent on the war. Deteriorating infrastructure at the state and federal level. Hundreds of thousands of our neighbors going through or facing foreclosure. Oh...and no end in sight (100 more years if John McCain is elected).

As one poster said, I am proud to be an American. I am ashamed of my President and embarrassed by my Congress.

Yep...Mission Accomplished! Great job GW.

 

[duckfan78]

We are never safe from outside danger. No country is. The difference between us and other countries is that we, as Americans, didn't dwell on threats and concentrated instead on accomplishing our own personal missions rather than trying to get other countries to behave the way we wanted them to.

Until Korea and Vietnam that is. Once we decided we were going to police the world, America as a whole started going to heck on a handcart.

I believe that is wrong. It started when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor

Your experience is different than mine. I had a great job earning more than I do now; I had very little debt - the CCs got paid off every month; I had a house with a value that increased every year; I was actually able to start saving for my retirement; and the future looked bright. All that changed after the Bush Administration.

Well, different than you, today I am doing well. I just got married, both my wife and I have great jobs, she is in school also to get a degree in nursing. We have more money in our 401k, and are paying off debt easily and saving.

"Pervert" in the Oval Office seems to work best for the American people, just like JFK worked best for the American people. It's only when you get the "morally upright", whose vices aren't women but money, into office that the country goes downhill. It seems the "perverts" actually care about other people - heck, they're chasing other people so they can care about them . The "morally upright" only seem to care about money and power.

What about how Clinton cut the military, cut spending on defense and cut our inteligence?

See below for an explanation about why we're buying from China: Corporations have been shipping all production overseas so their bottom line would improve. Of course they're doing better - they're not having to pay American workers to produce what other countries produce at a fraction of the cost. Unfortunately, cheaper production equals crap products, full of lead and worthless.

Equally unfortunate, since Americans have lost so many good paying jobs, cheap crappy foreign products are all we can afford now.

We have lost good paying jobs, because americans we all want everything dirt cheap. So, in return, we lose jobs in manufacturing.