Minor child used my debit card online....

[StarGazer99]

I don't have the answers but I do have some pointers. I was a young kid who would take from my mothers purse. The first time was 2nd grade 100.00 to give to the poor at school. I think mixed reaction started me on the path... reactions I perceived as "you killed someone" it was so wrong, to oooh you didn't know any better. It was down hill from there.

I am a good and overly honest person now and I am not exactly sure why other than my parents never gave up. They kept saying over and over it was wrong. My father always said I don't care what you think of me now tell me when your 40. I hated that man more than anything else in the world and in a few months I will be 40 and he now means more to me than anyone could know.

By the way he was and is a strong willed son of a ***** and he'd tell you so.
(I am my fathers daughter)

Where my parents screwed up all parents screw up somewhere.

They definitely did not talk to me enough: I don't mean as a parent but just as a person(not friend) who took interest in my thoughts of the world or everyday happenings. I wanted someone who wouldn't tell me what I said was stupid or wrong.... I wanted someone to agree with me.

All wrong doings were life or death I would have loved for them to have said: you know you really screwed up...it's normal for kids to screw up and this is going to be how we handle this one... this will be your punishment and then when it's over, IT'S OVER!!! Don't keep bringing up their mistakes.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY I was grounded from 7-11 grade(in 11th I got a counselor) and they took everything away from me....my 5 siblings agree with this mistake. They had nothing left to punish me with and I had nothing to loose..... Make sure you child always has something they hold dear. It sounds bad but you need to plan for punishments before they happen.


These are just a few mistakes but looking back and then seeing what you are dealing with I wouldn't be scared just yet. When you think about it I don't think a 9 year old has a true concept of the value of money.. It could have been $500 or $2000 what is the difference to him... does he know what you make a year? Does he know what a house or a car cost? Does he even know what a budget is or how to do it. He most likely did not have the concept therefore lack of remorse....The possibility of loosing Disney(not the $ value but the meaning) gave him partial concept. It was not a personal attack on you. The hardest thing is not to overreact which I am sure that is past (I know you don't but he may think you hate him.... I would have at that age...hell I would have at 18).. Can you in a calm manner explain to him that this is a big screw up (worse than braking a window), that he will work off the money to help understand how hard you had to work for it and that by taking it, it effects the whole family.

We had a Disney Punishment when I was young.... my brother was caught smoking pot..he was grounded for the summer, and when my brother acted as if he didn't care, my father planned a trip to Disney(7days) and my brother spent the entire time in the hotel room. To this day, at the age of 56 he brags he got stoned the first day of his release just to get even.... What an idiot!!!! He was not as fortunate as I, yet still today he would do anything for our father.

It's really hard, especially in this day in age, to remember THEY ARE NOT GROWN UP, we take for granted they understand when they don't. Ignorance is no excuse but they do need to learn.

Thank you for sharing your story... my daughter will be 9 in a couple months and I realized I am loosing my focus and must apply myself to my beliefs stronger....I may not make my parents mistakes but I know I will screw up... we all do.. I just hope she can be as light hearted about my mistakes as I am with my parents.

AND HAVE FAITH!!!!...If you don't have faith in your parenting, how can your child have faith in his parents.

Best of luck to you and remember hindsight is 20/20 I'm sure in 20yrs you may know exactly what you should have done and that will not resolve your sons worries with his children.

You don't become old and wise without first being young and stupid.

 

[StarGazer99]

If you are able to cancel the credit card and supervise him on the computer, what does it matter what the real passwords or codes were... I would mention it nonchalantly at a later time that it would have been a real grown up thing to do to come forward with the real passwords and codes, and that you could understand maybe out of fear he did not give them up... and then drop it. A hint for future reference..though kids can be kind of slow on hints.

I'm not for certain there isn't another important reason for getting the real passwords and codes.

When children are younger we teach them to say they are sorry when they do something wrong, but at some point we stop teaching them how to act when they do something wrong and just expect them to know, even though (as they get older) what they do wrong is nothing like before. We need to continue to teach them how to take responsibly for their actions into their teen years.... It's just so hard to think clearly when you're so furious.

These are just rambling thoughts. I'm sorry I took up so much space.

 

[tomthebarncat]

OP, so how has your family decided to handle this issue? I don't have kids and I really have no idea what I would do. I do know that I would feel like a failure as a mom because my child did this, but is just me, I tend to feel guilty on occasion, and see children as a reflection of their parents.

 

[Magic Mom]

If you are able to cancel the credit card and supervise him on the computer, what does it matter what the real passwords or codes were... I would mention it nonchalantly at a later time that it would have been a real grown up thing to do to come forward with the real passwords and codes, and that you could understand maybe out of fear he did not give them up... and then drop it. A hint for future reference..though kids can be kind of slow on hints.

I'm not for certain there isn't another important reason for getting the real passwords and codes.

IMO the passwords matter because when he snuck around, lied and stole, he lost the privilege to any sort of computer privacy(not that I think a 9 YO should have an privacy on the computer). In order to gain back trust, he has to start clean and he can't do that as long as he has accounts that mom and dad can't access. The fact that a 9 YO is so adamant about not giving access to his accounts is a huge red flag. What else is there that he doesn't want anyone to find out about?

 

[curious3069]

Does it seem to anyone else like taking him to Disney and then withholding fun is a really cruel punishment? I know what he did was really wrong and the lack of remorse is troubling, but he is still a child. I'm not saying don't punish, paying back the $$, no computer, etc are all good and a kid can understand that as a consequence. Not going to Disney and staying with Grandma is a consequence of a bad action...going to Disney and then watching from the sidelines seems like "ha ha, we're having fun and you are not" which I think would hurt and not send the message that he's a loved member of the family. He then becomes the felon who is the bad kid.

Let me add that I wouldn't hold Disney hostage until he's given up the passwords, that definitely sends the wrong message and sends the message that he'll be rewarded for something bad.

Keep in mind I don't have kids so I might be totally wrong about this..I just know this is how I would have felt as a kid!!!

 

[Liberty Belle]

Where my parents screwed up all parents screw up somewhere.

They definitely did not talk to me enough: I don't mean as a parent but just as a person(not friend) who took interest in my thoughts of the world or everyday happenings. I wanted someone who wouldn't tell me what I said was stupid or wrong.... I wanted someone to agree with me.

All wrong doings were life or death I would have loved for them to have said: you know you really screwed up...it's normal for kids to screw up and this is going to be how we handle this one... this will be your punishment and then when it's over, IT'S OVER!!! Don't keep bringing up their mistakes.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY I was grounded from 7-11 grade(in 11th I got a counselor) and they took everything away from me....my 5 siblings agree with this mistake. They had nothing left to punish me with and I had nothing to loose..... Make sure you child always has something they hold dear. It sounds bad but you need to plan for punishments before they happen.


You don't become old and wise without first being young and stupid.

Excellent advice! I think these are things all parents should read and remember, especially the last two. The middle one is really important to me. I think all parents and teachers need to tack that up somewhere that they'll see it a lot.

 

[RebeccaB]

I am seriously wondering how the kid set up a paypal account? I just recently did this and first, had to have the full bank accnt #, then, had to check said back account for a couple of deposits from paypal. Secondly, I also had to check my debit card for a deposit from paypal, and enter all that info at paypal. So, he would also have to have access to the bank accnt to check for these deposits? I'm not questioning the validity of the paypal account, just suggesting that there is more to this that "just" setting up a paypal account. As a parent of a 9yo, it seems to me that he wasn't alone in this.

 

[Mary•Poppins]

Wow ... I don't have anything to add but just giving you a

 

[DawnCt1]

I apologize. I haven't read all of these responses but I am going to play devil's advocate for a moment. I have often heard children at the age of 8 or 9 ask for money. The parent responds, "I don't have any to give to you". The child's solution; "Go to the ATM then". It makes me wonder if at 8 or 9, not all children are aware of how the money gets in the ATM and if the OP's son differentiates between real "cash" and a debit card that gets you what you want. He may not have seen it as "actual stealing" although it indeed is. He may have viewed it as using a card that he didn't have "permission" for that gave him access to something he wanted and not an actual dollar value.
When my boys were little, one of them made a couple of calls to a 900 number which showed up a month later on my phone bill. The cost of the calls were about $125. The telephone company removed them as a "courtesy" but I did not tell them. I told them that the calls had to be paid for and to pay for that bill, we had to eliminate another bill. I canceled cable tv for 3 months. The only tv available was for VCR use. They were old enough to make the call, but too young to understand the financial consequence of the call and how it impacts the whole family. It was a good lesson to show that this is the amount of money the phone company wants and this is where we are going to have to get it. I showed them the cable bill and how three months equaled the phone bill, and we did fine without the tv.
The lack of remorse may be a defensive posture and he may not have a sense of how much money he actually used.
He does seem quite bright. I know many adults that can't navigate a computer that way.
I wouldn't leave him home from Disney. Its too much for the grandparents and the message should be, what you did impacts the entire family so now we have less money to spend, you can't have the usual stuff that we would get you, or "we can't afford to go at all".
He also needs to pay it back with work and the loss of other stuff. "I know you like these pair of sneakers for school but I have to buy you these less expensive ones because you took money I needed for those things out of our bank and this is all we can afford. Lets not lose sight of the fact that this child is 9 and not 12. There is a difference. He is still on a learning curve.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

I apologize. I haven't read all of these responses but I am going to play devil's advocate for a moment. I have often heard children at the age of 8 or 9 ask for money. The parent responds, "I don't have any to give to you". The child's solution; "Go to the ATM then". It makes me wonder if at 8 or 9, not all children are aware of how the money gets in the ATM and if the OP's son differentiates between real "cash" and a debit card that gets you what you want. He may not have seen it as "actual stealing" although it indeed is. He may have viewed it as using a card that he didn't have "permission" for that gave him access to something he wanted and not an actual dollar value.
When my boys were little, one of them made a couple of calls to a 900 number which showed up a month later on my phone bill. The cost of the calls were about $125. The telephone company removed them as a "courtesy" but I did not tell them. I told them that the calls had to be paid for and to pay for that bill, we had to eliminate another bill. I canceled cable tv for 3 months. The only tv available was for VCR use. They were old enough to make the call, but too young to understand the financial consequence of the call and how it impacts the whole family. It was a good lesson to show that this is the amount of money the phone company wants and this is where we are going to have to get it. I showed them the cable bill and how three months equaled the phone bill, and we did fine without the tv.
The lack of remorse may be a defensive posture and he may not have a sense of how much money he actually used.
He does seem quite bright. I know many adults that can't navigate a computer that way.
I wouldn't leave him home from Disney. Its too much for the grandparents and the message should be, what you did impacts the entire family so now we have less money to spend, you can't have the usual stuff that we would get you, or "we can't afford to go at all".
He also needs to pay it back with work and the loss of other stuff. "I know you like these pair of sneakers for school but I have to buy you these less expensive ones because you took money I needed for those things out of our bank and this is all we can afford. Lets not lose sight of the fact that this child is 9 and not 12. There is a difference. He is still on a learning curve.

Dawn - I completely agree with you.

Off Topic - Thank God you checked on your MIL. Hope things are going well for her now.

 

[StarGazer99]

I apologize. I haven't read all of these responses but I am going to play devil's advocate for a moment. I have often heard children at the age of 8 or 9 ask for money. The parent responds, "I don't have any to give to you". The child's solution; "Go to the ATM then". It makes me wonder if at 8 or 9, not all children are aware of how the money gets in the ATM and if the OP's son differentiates between real "cash" and a debit card that gets you what you want. He may not have seen it as "actual stealing" although it indeed is. He may have viewed it as using a card that he didn't have "permission" for that gave him access to something he wanted and not an actual dollar value.
When my boys were little, one of them made a couple of calls to a 900 number which showed up a month later on my phone bill. The cost of the calls were about $125. The telephone company removed them as a "courtesy" but I did not tell them. I told them that the calls had to be paid for and to pay for that bill, we had to eliminate another bill. I canceled cable tv for 3 months. The only tv available was for VCR use. They were old enough to make the call, but too young to understand the financial consequence of the call and how it impacts the whole family. It was a good lesson to show that this is the amount of money the phone company wants and this is where we are going to have to get it. I showed them the cable bill and how three months equaled the phone bill, and we did fine without the tv.
The lack of remorse may be a defensive posture and he may not have a sense of how much money he actually used.
He does seem quite bright. I know many adults that can't navigate a computer that way.
I wouldn't leave him home from Disney. Its too much for the grandparents and the message should be, what you did impacts the entire family so now we have less money to spend, you can't have the usual stuff that we would get you, or "we can't afford to go at all".
He also needs to pay it back with work and the loss of other stuff. "I know you like these pair of sneakers for school but I have to buy you these less expensive ones because you took money I needed for those things out of our bank and this is all we can afford. Lets not lose sight of the fact that this child is 9 and not 12. There is a difference. He is still on a learning curve.

The cable thing was an awesome idea... Though we don't have cable if I ever needed that idea.. I would love to be able to ask you for ideas on things. I have such a hard time with punishment of taking away stuff because I've taught my daughter not to have such a want for tangible things...... All good thoughts and ideas come back to bite you in the butt...

The key is giving a punishment that teaches.

I've thought about doing the "Two and a Half men" thing were Charlie buys Jake a video gaming system just so he could take it away as a punishment. Sad to say my daughters worse punishment is to take away her books.. I NEVER thought I would punish a child that way....What kind a parent STOPS their child from reading?

I know times are going to get much tougher and I had better "try" and prepare for it. There are givens that most children make the mistakes: when they are little you just know the times when you say no and they will do things anyway... many kids at some point cut their hair. I had plans for these times before my child was born.. and all went well.. no real problems through the younger years. But this preteen and teenager.... things aren't so stereotypical and the same direction you give your child one day and it works, they blow off the next.

I'm already trying to plan for... sneaking out of the house... ect. Though thankfully for right now she is brutally honest with me.

 

[DawnCt1]

The cable thing was an awesome idea... Though we don't have cable if I ever needed that idea.. I would love to be able to ask you for ideas on things. I have such a hard time with punishment of taking away stuff because I've taught my daughter not to have such a want for tangible things...... All good thoughts and ideas come back to bite you in the butt...

The key is giving a punishment that teaches.

I've thought about doing the "Two and a Half men" thing were Charlie buys Jake a video gaming system just so he could take it away as a punishment. Sad to say my daughters worse punishment is to take away her books.. I NEVER thought I would punish a child that way....What kind a parent STOPS their child from reading?

I know times are going to get much tougher and I had better "try" and prepare for it. There are givens that most children make the mistakes: when they are little you just know the times when you say no and they will do things anyway... many kids at some point cut their hair. I had plans for these times before my child was born.. and all went well.. no real problems through the younger years. But this preteen and teenager.... things aren't so stereotypical and the same direction you give your child one day and it works, they blow off the next.

I'm already trying to plan for... sneaking out of the house... ect. Though thankfully for right now she is brutally honest with me.

How about having her read a book that teaches the lesson you want her to learn?

 

[lucyanna girl]

First, I would reasure my child that I still love him very much. Second, I would punish him but not his grandparents.

I walk with a foot in both worlds, I still have a daughter at home but also have grandchildren by older children and step-children.

There is no doubt this child must understand the seriousness of his actions and suffer the consequences. You have had a world of advice about possible punishment so I will not go into that, it comes down to what you and your husband decide is appropriate and can follow thru on - that is the most important thing - you must do what you say you will do.

As a parent I would never ask nor expect my parent to be the one who was left with a disappointed and probably angry child while I went off on vacaction. As a grandparent I am willing to keep a child for most reasons but would probably tell my child no about this - you set the terms of the punishment - you stay home and keep him. Some things you just have to do yourself.

Good luck.



Penny

 

[NHdisneylover]

The cable thing was an awesome idea... Though we don't have cable if I ever needed that idea.. I would love to be able to ask you for ideas on things. I have such a hard time with punishment of taking away stuff because I've taught my daughter not to have such a want for tangible things...... All good thoughts and ideas come back to bite you in the butt...

The key is giving a punishment that teaches.

I've thought about doing the "Two and a Half men" thing were Charlie buys Jake a video gaming system just so he could take it away as a punishment. Sad to say my daughters worse punishment is to take away her books.. I NEVER thought I would punish a child that way....What kind a parent STOPS their child from reading?

I know times are going to get much tougher and I had better "try" and prepare for it. There are givens that most children make the mistakes: when they are little you just know the times when you say no and they will do things anyway... many kids at some point cut their hair. I had plans for these times before my child was born.. and all went well.. no real problems through the younger years. But this preteen and teenager.... things aren't so stereotypical and the same direction you give your child one day and it works, they blow off the next.

I'm already trying to plan for... sneaking out of the house... ect. Though thankfully for right now she is brutally honest with me.

Me--and I agree I never thought before I had kids that this would be a thing I would want to do (I was an English teacher and librarian for crying out loud!). It is the one thing that she really, really cares about. Hey, you have to do what works.

 

[MrsPete]

'El thiefo' (love the term)

That is a great term!

I would definitely have the therapist try to dig to see if your son was being helped by anybody . . . If there is a second party, then you have a criminal case to go to the police with.

What kind of second party would have him stealing access to Club Penguin, etc.? No, it sounds to me like things that would interest a 9-year old. I don't see this as anything that requires therapy; rather, it requires punishment. I think people run to therapy awfully fast these days. He did wrong. You know what he did. The motive seems obvious. Where's the need for analysis? Instead, I think he needs to do without TV and computers, and he needs to be out in the hot sun washing the car and mowing the grass.

OP, it sounds like you have everything under control. My only thought would be to not let him use birthday money or any money that was GIVEN to him to pay you back. I think he should only be allowed to pay you back with money he earned. Handing over money that he had to do nothing to get is too easy.

My 16-year old dented my bumper -- not a big deal; in fact, I'm not even mad about it -- but it cost something to fix it, and it's her responsibility. We're doing a half-and-half deal for her payback: She's allowed to take half the bumper cost out of her savings, but she's required to WORK for the other half around the house. She's old enough to value her savings, so that does hurt . . . but she's really hating the extra yard work, cleaning out the attic, and staining the deck. I'm having her do some necessary heavy work around her great-grandmother's house too. I'm satisfied that the half-and-half method was a good choice.

My mom's fond of saying "natural consequences". A punishment should be the natural outcome of the crime. You didn't lock up your bike, and it was stolen? Now you're walking. You didn't do your homework? Your grade was lowered and now you're in trouble at home. You didn't wash the dishes last night? Now you can't go swimming with your friends because the dishes won't do themselves AND the breakfast dishes have been added to the pile. Natural consequences.

At 9 he knows right from wrong. I would also be informing the school that although you want him to continue with computer studies you do not want him going on the internet.

I disagree. I'd keep the punishment within the family. No need to air your dirty laundry within the school system -- no need to taint his reputation among his teachers and have other people remembering this for years. Also, we have a month and a half 'til school starts again. He should be able to "earn" the money for repayment between now and then. I'd design the punishment to end once school starts. Super-long punishments aren't all that effective with kids this age; instead, they tend to just forget why they're being punshed -- and if you constantly remind him, it's nagging. Give him a way to earn his way back into your good graces, make it tough, and then make him do it. But don't make it forever.

And when he's allowed back on the internet, it should be with much more stringent supervision (for an indeterminant amount of time).

I'm going against the majority and saying he needs more time with his parents now more then ever. I would definitely take him on the Disney trip, without a doubt. Let him know just how much he hurt you, how you feel you can't trust him, turn the tables on him, but like a previous poster said let him know you still love him and always will.

I agree. I'd not kick him out of a family vacation, which would give him the idea that he's done something so bad that his family doesn't include him any longer, which would give him the idea that the money meant more than his company on the trip . . . but I would make his life miserable at home between now and then: I'd take away privledges and have him earn the money he "spent".

Also, remember that he's 9. I might take away a vacation from a teenager, but I wouldn't do it to a 9-year old.

Remember the main reason we punish our children: We do it to teach them to do better next time. You have to make it possible for him to "earn his way" back into your good graces. Tell him -- in clear terms -- what his punishment is, how he is to make it up to you (including deadlines), and then have him do it.

I apologize. I haven't read all of these responses but I am going to play devil's advocate for a moment. I have often heard children at the age of 8 or 9 ask for money. The parent responds, "I don't have any to give to you". The child's solution; "Go to the ATM then". It makes me wonder if at 8 or 9, not all children are aware of how the money gets in the ATM and if the OP's son differentiates between real "cash" and a debit card that gets you what you want. He may not have seen it as "actual stealing" although it indeed is.

I was thinking the same type of thing. First, I'm amazed that a 9-year old could pull this off; and, second, I do wonder if his lack of remorse isn't because he doesn't fully grasp that he was stealing real money. A 9-year old may be very good at manipulating computers, but his brain may still be operating in the concrete-operations stage, which means he doesn't fully understand that those figures represent real money. If he plays computer games regularly, this could be compounded by the fact that in some of these games he "earns and spends money" -- your real money may feel like SIMS money/fake money to him. I think our kids today may have more trouble understanding financial concept because money is less visible than it was to us when we were kids. Plenty of adults don't have a real grasp of how much debt they have, and it's for this very reason! The figures don't feel real to them.

I also love the idea of canceling cable TV to "pay for" the crime -- other options could include canceling an outing, no buying school lunch, or doing without a promised item. The kid needs to SEE that the money had to come from somewhere.

 

[MrsPete]

Me--and I agree I never thought before I had kids that this would be a thing I would want to do (I was an English teacher and librarian for crying out loud!). It is the one thing that she really, really cares about. Hey, you have to do what works.

Yeah, you have to do what works for your child. If the typical "take away TV and phone" wouldn't be effective for your child . . . then you have to hit them where it hurts. My youngest cares more about her books and art supplies than cutting off the typical things -- so what's a better punishment for her: Grounding her for weeks and weeks, which takes her away from social contact that my shy child needs . . . or taking away the books and art supplies for a few painful, painful days?

 

[Debbie7452]

I haven't been in your shoes and I don't envy you...here's my two cents. My DS 12 is on our crew for a family hobby that involves travel(racing). He LOVES to go and it is a source of pride to him that he is very good at helping with our race car. He started having some pre-teen tantrums and bad attitude at home and at a local race we attended. We finally decided to leave him home with Grandma for the race last weekend and followed through. We hated to do it but we felt it was the only way to get his attention that we were serious about his unacceptable behavior.

So far, it seems to have worked. I don't regret leaving him one bit because it was the only way to get through to him. HTH

Oh, I just saw that someone sees this as punishing Grandma...No, in our case at least, our DS was sad but really knew he would NOT want to make it worse by taking it out on the Grandparents. You know your kid best. We actually were punishing ourselves because he is so good at his jobs and is incredibly helpful (when not having tantrums and attitude issues!)

 

[LisaR]

\Sad to say my daughters worse punishment is to take away her books.. I NEVER thought I would punish a child that way....What kind a parent STOPS their child from reading?

Was it you that said earlier that your DD is only 9? When my DD was young, I took books away as a punishment. She was never into electronics and reading was her thing. Now that she is 15, she still loves to read but that isn't what motivates her. There are so many other things you will be able to take away when they are older. A weekend without friends to a teenager is like a death sentence. If I would have taken away friends at 9, she would have just read all day. Now she thinks her life is coming to an end.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Was it you that said earlier that your DD is only 9? When my DD was young, I took books away as a punishment. She was never into electronics and reading was her thing. Now that she is 15, she still loves to read but that isn't what motivates her. There are so many other things you will be able to take away when they are older. A weekend without friends to a teenager is like a death sentence. If I would have taken away friends at 9, she would have just read all day. Now she thinks her life is coming to an end.

Hard to say. Mine is 13. Books are still the thing that hurts her the most. Probably would have hurt me too.
For DS dessert and music are his big issues. Computer a bit as well recently.

 

[DawnCt1]

I'd keep the punishment within the family. No need to air your dirty laundry within the school system -- no need to taint his reputation among his teachers and have other people remembering this for years. now and then: I'd take away privledges and have him earn the money he "spent".

A.

I so agree. What happens at home should always stay at home. Something goes missing at school? Who would be the "natural suspect". The kid whose mom warned them about. Furthermore, teachers have enough to deal with without being surrogate parents.