mini-rant

[BemaniAK]

Okay it's official..... I really have been living under a rock all these years. I never knew about this so called FP tip. I suppose this is a good thing since now I'll have nothing to miss. Anyway...I can't wait to see how much Disney will charge for this new X Pass option.

It's apparently free if youre in a deluxe or deluxe villa room.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

So over people complaining about the OPs posts. They have a valid point but everyone on these boards seems to think it's acceptable to complain, belittle, and quite frankly be rude to the OP. If you wouldn't talk like that to someone in real life (which I suspect most of you wouldn't) what right do you have to talk like that to people on the forums?

Anyway! I haven't used FP with the new time line but I rarely, if ever returned in the return window. The horror I know! LoL. I don't know if I'll like having to stay within certain lands and wait for the FP time to return because we often got FPs for 3 + hours after we collected. I do agree that they're setting it up to make it a paid service which is just not right. I'm not going to BOOK my rides in weeks or months in advance! This isn't a restaurant booking. They're doing it simply to charge people or get people to stay in more expensive rooms. I realize Disney is a business but surely they don't need to start charging people for the FP system as well.

 

[vicki_c]

I have no interest in rehashing the right/wrong debate. It's just silly at this point (since the policy/enforcement has changed) and counterproductive. But I agree with the OP's premise - we were there the week before Easter and as long time late FP users, I thought the new way stunk. We did less attractions on every given day, less multiple rides on our favorites and almost missed an ADR (made long before the change was announced) to due a slow moving FP return line @ Soarin'.

If we return again before they roll out the new system, we will really have to re-think our long-standing touring approaches to everything, and especially how we schedule our ADRs for breakfasts (we like the late breakfast around 10:30) and lunches.

 

[Samar]

We always returned in the allotted time before the new system since I didn't know we *could* have kept them for random times. The very few times that we were late by a minute or 2 and let onto the ride, I just thought the CM understood that with 3 kids, we were hurrying the best we could


Yes, I can see that it will suck for us if we're a smidge late for whatever reason for our 2012 trip but it is what it is.

 

[Bob NC]

I'd be curious how the late use of FP's got started in the first place.

I just can't imagine having a piece of paper in my hand that states I should come back between 10:55 and 11:55, and I show back up at 3:30.

I don't understand that, and I also don't understand why Disney didn't enforce it from the start.

Would a person get an ADR for 10:55 and assume they could show up anytime later that day to be seated?

 

[Johndoodle]

It's apparently free if youre in a deluxe or deluxe villa room.

If that would come truth hell will open his gates,there will be whining,grinding of teeth and the DIS servers will be smoking.
Walt will be climbing out of his grave.
It will be fun to watch.

 

[WillAustin]

.I just can't imagine having a piece of paper in my hand that states I should come back between 10:55 and 11:55, and I show back up at 3:30.

I don't understand that, and I also don't understand why Disney didn't enforce it from the start.

Would a person get an ADR for 10:55 and assume they could show up anytime later that day to be seated?

No, but if a CM told me it was fine, I would.

You are assuming certain circumstances in your post that add to your misunderstanding.

Many times CMs specifically were telling people, and/or announcing loudly, that the FPs were good until the parks close.

I know in my experience, I was told this multiple times, in every park, over several days, on multiple trips in different years.

I honestly can't imagine why anyone would think it was wrong to do what many CMs told me to do.

If it was only guest recovery that got out of hand, I would expect to be told that I shouldn't use them late but they'd let me in anyway. This wasn't ever the case. Not even once.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

I went a few months ago and I was very worried about how the change would affect us. I was a big fan of collecting FPs and using them late!

The biggest difference I noticed was a lot more walking since we had to use the FP w/in the window. We also rode less, but all in all in wasn't as bad as I feared!

This my concern with the switch. We used to use FP's to ride our favorites a second time later in the afternoon (after taking a break.) Now that we don't take a stroller anymore and both kids will be walking, I really want to cut down the amount of backtracking that we do in a park. I'm wondering how the new policy will effect these things, but I do suspect we will end up doing less attractions.

 

[EveDallas]

How hard can it possibly be? You get a fastpass and then you use it. Unless it is for a lot later, you can't have that many at a time. You just stay in the area until you can use it.

I don't get how hard of a thing it is.

Seriously. Every time I read this, I just . It's a simple concept. Check the fastpass return time, then get one or don't. It's not quantum physics.

 

[damo]

I agree you shouldn't--it's only a small adjustment really.

I've moved on, except I get wound up another notch every time a poster decides to share how "good" they were, and by implication how "bad" I was. Drives me batty. I bet you could tell.

I wonder how many of these people who "always follow the rules" never go over the speed limit even though law enforcement generally has some lenience.

 

[Senator Tressel]

I wonder how many of these people who "always follow the rules" never go over the speed limit even though law enforcement generally has some lenience.

Also, they're all out of the park by closing. Not a minute later. Ever.

 

[mesaboy2]

For anyone who takes pride in abiding only by the printed rules on a FP, do you want to answer the questions I posed at the end of this post recounting my experience on IaSW this week? I think it's very relevant to this discussion.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=45112607&postcount=1

 

[KigerKat]

Yeah, we liked to do the same thing and collect FPs throughout the day and use them in the evening. But, we knew that we were taking advantage of a loophole and that Disney could always choose to enforce the return window at some point. We came back a month ago, and still had a wonderful time. We actually found that we didn't get as many FPs as we normally would. In fact, I think we only got about 7-8 FPs over the 6 days we were there.

The point is, if you know you are getting away with something, you really can't get that upset when you can't get away with it anymore. I'm thankful that we were able to do it as long as we were!

 

[jenfromjersey]

I was there last month and as a former hoarder, I found that the new policy change actually had me walking back and forth LESS. We used the Disney Mobile Magic FREE app to preview what the wait times were and fast pass return times to make our next decision on where to head next. FP Buzz because it had a faster return time and do SB for Space (they had similar stand by times). Same thing with Jungle Cruise and Splash. RnRC and ToT. I really don't get what the big to do is. It was nice to see FP available later in the day. The only time we didn't grab a FP was the first morning we were there, we got to Epcot about 10:30 and the return time for Soarin was 1:05-2:05 and we had an ADR at 2:05 so I didn't to chance it, so we stood in the SB line instead

 

[mesaboy2]

I was there last month and as a former hoarder, I found that the new policy change actually had me walking back and forth LESS. We used the Disney Mobile Magic FREE app to preview what the wait times were and fast pass return times to make our next decision on where to head next. FP Buzz because it had a faster return time and do SB for Space (they had similar stand by times). Same thing with Jungle Cruise and Splash. RnRC and ToT. I really don't get what the big to do is. It was nice to see FP available later in the day. The only time we didn't grab a FP was the first morning we were there, we got to Epcot about 10:30 and the return time for Soarin was 1:05-2:05 and we had an ADR at 2:05 so I didn't to chance it, so we stood in the SB line instead

DMM is what helped me walk less, not the enforcement. I found DMM very valuable for this use alone. When the dang thing worked.

 

[Senator Tressel]

I'm not being bullheaded (but thanks for calling names). I'm simply stating my opinion.

I specifically said not you personally. So that kind of backs up my theory that you're not listening.

 

[Bob NC]

Interesting story: I used to be in retail years ago, before scanners, we actually had to punch the prices into a cash register.

I had a guy come in to make a purchase. I undercharged him by mistake, ($1.99 for a $3.99 item), and didn't realize until after the transaction was over. I then told him I had made a $2 mistake, but no prob, I'll just let it go.

2 Days later he came in and bought the same item, when I rang it up at the correct price of $3.99 he asked why he couldn't get it at $1.99 as that is what he had paid before. I reminded him that I had made an entry error on his previous purchase, but now he has to pay regular price.

I have to tell you, he just could not understand why I let him get away with something previously but I wouldn't let him do it again.

 

[maxiesmom]

I wonder how many of these people who "always follow the rules" never go over the speed limit even though law enforcement generally has some lenience.

Bad behavior by one person does not give an excuse to someone else to behave badly too. it just makes both people equally wrong.

Not that I think people who were using FPs after the window with the blessings of CMs were doing anything horribly wrong.

 

[WillAustin]

I didn't say it was wrong. I didn't even hint it was wrong. Why would you get the impression, by what I said, that it was wrong?

All I said was if I had a FP that said come back at a certain 1 hour window, I would.

I probably would too, if the time window was my only data point. Luckily, I had the additional encouragement from CMs letting me know the real policy.

You did say you couldn't imagine returning outside the printed window. I'm pretty sure most people would do whatever the CMs told them to do.

I have to tell you, he just could not understand why I let him get away with something previously but I wouldn't let him do it again.

Again, there isn't any evidence that the enforcement change had anything to do with some perceived abuse that needed to be stopped. To the contrary, most of the evidence points to X-Pass preparation.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Well, I haven't kicked this dead horse in awhile so here goes. Disney's policy was to allow the late use of fastpasses. There is no wiggle room here, that was their official policy.

Again, enforcement of the FP policy changed. And apparently all CMs didnt understand that to be the case because some CMs would not let guests return past their FP return window prior to March 7th. In the 2012, Unofficial Guide Book, the authors recommended that if you were to be turned away from using your FP late, you should return later and try with another CM. How did some CMs get the late Fast Pass memo and others did not? Was it not prt of their official training to allow late FP use? one would have to wonder if it were "policy" as some assert that it was not clearly understood or clearly defined in writing.

Now the "policy" has changed. Some people don't like it because it significantly changes the way they vacation, but it is what it is. We didn't hoard fastpasses to use at the end of the day, but we did use them when it was convenient and sometimes that was after the printed window. We were following Disney's policy and yes I believe that is the right thing to do. I will miss the flexibility, but it is what it is and we will adjust accordingly.

Now that the "enforcement" changed, you were previously only doing what Disney allowed by not strictly enforcing a written policy that was printed on the FP ticket.

As for why they had an end time if it wasn't their policy to enforce it, it is because they were influencing behavior. Many organizations, especially large organizations with lots of staistical data find ways to influence behavior without restricing themselves or their customers with excessive rules. Disney is very good at this. Sometimes this creates the illusion of a rule where none exists. In this case we have seen ample evidence that the rule or "policy" was that fastpasses would be valid on the day they were acquired anytime after the opening of the printed window.

Pyschobabble conjecture and wild speculation on your behalf. If Disney, wanted the FPs to be used this way from the beginning of the FP program then they would have never strictly have enforced the return window as they did when they rolled out the program. It was over time that they relaxed enforcement for reasons of guest satisfaction. When more people learned of this lax enforcement then it became the sort of "insider secret" before March 7th. If Disney truly wanted people to use FPs past their return window they would have changed their signage and promoted it widely as a perk to try to drive business. They didnt just print a return time on the ticket for psychological reasons. And again this reason doesnt account for why Disney first enforced the FP return window.

Regardless, the policy has changed. When a change at Disney negatively affects someone they are likely to complain. That is okay, they have the right. When those who disagree post stating that they believe the changes enhance the overall experience, that is okay too. What I (and others) do have a problem with is when this turns into attacks about how people didn't "do the right thing" and "follow policy" in the past. I know I shouldn't care what some nameless, faceless person says on a message board, even if their logic is flawed and seemingly ignorant of the acual policies sited, but I can't help it. The implication that I and others are of lessor character because we didn't follow a policy that never existed is irritating. If we could keep these discussions focused on wether the policy change has an overall positive or negative affect and leave the personal attacks out they would be of much more use. Okay, I will climb off my high horse and carefully walk around the dead one now (maybe one more kick on the way by).

Again, there is a difference between policy and enforcement. As noticed everyday in different counties when it comes to people violating speed limits. the same road going through two counties may have a speed limit of 55 but in county X they only enforce it starting at 5 miles over while county Y enforces it at 7 miles over the limit. But they may both not enforce at under 5 because of the variables that would affect them from making the fine stick if challenged in court. See, the Speed Limit policy never changed, only enforcement did.

And the Policy did exist because Disney enforced it when they first rolled out the FP program.

It is not my contention that people are of a lessor character because they took advantage of what Disney allowed in the past. And as you and others are tired of attacks from the "rule followers", I too tire of the name calling coming from the other side where people are called sheep, jealous, and their intelligence questioned because they didnt know that they could challenged what was written on the FP prior to March 7th. So please dont pretend that the personal attacks are one sided in this debate.