Mine Train vs. Transformers

[Brian Noble]

I just think its crazy that Uni is getting this project done in less than a year and it is taking 3 years to get the mine train done.

A big part of the time it takes WDW to build something is the exterior rockwork, etc. The transformers show building is likely to be "just a building," housing a clone of a ride using a ride system that is ten years old---so, very well understood technology and already-well-developed SFX. When Universal built the Potterverse (which does have all of that placemaking), it took them an amount of time comparable to what it is taking WDW to build out all of New Fantasyland.

We always viewed Universal as the gradual progression as our kids got older.

Yep. My kids' last visit to WDW was when they were 9 and 11. They are going to DLR this year (at 12 and 14) and excited about that, but they do tend to prefer Universal (or, in my 14 year old's case, Cedar Point) more.

 

[WDSearcher]

It is in an interior section of the park as well, with guest-accessible areas on all sides. Just like 7DMT.

But its also an indoor attraction -- at least, the one in CA is. It's an indoor ride like Spiderman is an indoor ride. So once you get the building up, you can work 24/7 and not have noise or sightlines that will impact guest traffic.

 

[WDSearcher]

Aloha,

My family and I visited UH last Fall and truly loved the Transformers ride. It was really awesome. And the Simpsons ride was truly magnificent.

I am a Disney Lover and I too wish Disney would have the same passion and energy to expand and improve like UO.

Somebody please correct me, but if my memory is correct, at one point in time Disney fired several Imagineers as Disney downsized. UO then hired the fired WDW Imagineers and UO hired a new CEO who wants to beat the pants off of WDW.

There are ex-Imagineers working at virtually every theme park chain in the world, from Ferrari Land in Dubai to Ocean Park in Hong Kong to Six Flags, Dollywood, SeaWorld and Universal. It's not that surprising that if their project is done at WDW, an Imagineer would go to another theme park looking for work. And it's not surprising that other theme parks would seek out Imagineers in need of work.

Of course Universal wants to beat the pants off Disney. Every theme park chain does. And if Universal wanted to hit Disney in its gut, they'd rework their parks to appeal to Disney's core demographic. But they haven't. Universal is doing what they need to do to attract the teen / tween / young single adult crowd, which is a gap right now for Disney. Disney knows this. The two parks can exist very nicely in the same market, simply by focusing on different things.

Yes, there's competition for the tourism dollar, but I don't really think either park wakes up every day vowing to crush the other. They feed off each other and pull business from each other. Universal didn't build in Orlando by accident. They built here because Disney is here. If Disney closed up and went away tomorrow, do you think Universal would keep building at the pace they're at now? If Universal closed up tomorrow, do you think Disney would? We, as theme park fans, need both parks in order to have the best chance for constant growth.

 

[mesaboy2]

But its also an indoor attraction -- at least, the one in CA is. It's an indoor ride like Spiderman is an indoor ride. So once you get the building up, you can work 24/7 and not have noise or sightlines that will impact guest traffic.

I have observed construction workers over the fence in New Fantasyland on numerous occasions.

 

[davedmaine]

If the mine train is like the rest of Fantasyland it will be a huge disappointment.. And does anyone really believe that theming is better in Disney than universal? There really is no theming in Disney

 

[sammons70]

Disney works slow and overhypes their projects,do I still love them,sure but Universal is trouncing them right now.Let's look at the projects Universal will be building or are in rumor mode for the next three years.

1.Transformers for 2013,sure it's a clone of the ride in Hollywood and very similar to Spider Man,but it's still a new ride and will bring in the crowds.

2.London themed area for Harry Potter expansion with an indoor Gringots bank coaster and a Hogwarts express train that will connect both Potter areas in both parks

3.Simpsons land,they already had a Simpsons ride but are now creating an entire land with Simpsons themed restaurants and other attractions

The first three are under construction but there are rumors galore of other projects that could be fast tracked after Transformers and possibly even open before the Potter expansion

4.Poseidon's Fury being replaced with a Grinch or Lorax themed dark ride or coaster

5.And the last one which appears more solid than the Grinch one and just came about a couple of days ago is a major expansion of the Jurrassic Park section at Islands of Adventure to include a mine train family coaster into the mines where they discover the amber with insects with the dinosaur blood to create the dinosaurs.If that's not enough a new dark ride boarding at the JP Discovery center.

It's obvious you have Universal going all out with construction all over even a new resort also in construction and Disney taking 10 years to build an underwhelming new Fantasyland.Like I said I still love Disney and for me it's a win win because they will have to answer what Universal is doing.

I can't figure out why Universal isn't using the Sponge Bob franchise to its fullest potential. Disney hit a major home run in CA Adventure with Cars Land. Uni would have a sure fire winner if they made a Bikini Bottom themed area complete with a Krusty Krab restaurant, and some Spongebob themed rides. I am a teacher and I have noticed that Spongebob is much more popular with my 4th, 5th and 6th graders than any Disney character.

 

[Dznefreek]

Transformers is at least the third or fourth copy of an existing ride technology. The complexity isn't at issue, the effort that goes into non-recurring engineering is.
No rollercoaster has used technology like this before. Whether it looks impressive or not to any one person is beside the point.
I guess I need to go find that old Disney-apologist pin for me to wear again.

There have been inverted and suspended coasters that have swung. . . . .

 

[seadd67]

I don't think Disney fears UO, JMO. I think Disney will let UO just go on ahead do there thing know w will always make Disney first. Really UO seems they do not want that family following anyways. They want the crowds expecting something new and wild, not the following of a story line like Disney does.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think Disney fears UO, JMO. I think Disney will let UO just go on ahead do there thing know w will always make Disney first. Really UO seems they do not want that family following anyways. They want the crowds expecting something new and wild, not the following of a story line like Disney does.

I've been told that while Disney and Universal are competitors that they actually recognize the value that each can contribute to Orlando area tourism too. In other words, one luring people to Orlando can cause the other to get more business too. Universal's approach seems to be to be a bit wilder and to be in a constant state of change while Disney seems to be more traditional and cautious. There's certainly room for both approaches IMO.

 

[mesaboy2]

There have been inverted and suspended coasters that have swung. . . . .

Big Bad Wolf at BGW comes to mind--loved it and sad that it's gone.

Fine. There are swings from trees in backyards all over the world. Must be the same, because they both swing.

 

[monkyby87]

I've been told that while Disney and Universal are competitors that they actually recognize the value that each can contribute to Orlando area tourism too. In other words, one luring people to Orlando can cause the other to get more business too. Universal's approach seems to be to be a bit wilder and to be in a constant state of change while Disney seems to be more traditional and cautious. There's certainly room for both approaches IMO.

I can agree with this. While Disney may want a full weeks worth of attention from a family, if Universal is gone that family my forget the trip as there's only "one" thing to do, that being Disney. With Universal, there's opportunity to go to both, therefore Disney profiting. Same for Universal. I don't think they work together by any means, but I don't think they're actively trying to run the other out either. I've never been to Universal, but I know there are a lot of people on these boards that go to both during the same trip. Had one or the other not been there, neither park may have gotten business and that family vacation may have gone to another part of the country, or world in some cases.

 

[chartle]

There have been inverted and suspended coasters that have swung. . . . .

Its not the same kind of swing. Those coasters swing from above. As far as anyone knows the mine train swings well like a mine car from its center. So its more of a heartline coaster.

 

[disneybliss2]

After our last trip (this past June), I took a little hiatus from the boards. I've recently started visiting the boards again. I'm reading a few threads, such as this one, and feeling a bit lost. I haven't read any information about the new technology used in the mine train coaster but hear it referenced here. Where can I read about it, or can someone tell me a little about the ride and the new technology that will be used? Thanks!

 

[jlovesee]

The Snow White and Dwarfs mine train is advanced technology? Please tell me you are joking... that's funny...

Dwarfs is a Vekoma, Everest is a Vekoma, Rockin' Roller Coaster... Vekoma. Disney picks them to build the physical ride (obviously not the theming), because they are cheap. Bottom line. If Disney wanted quality there are far better companies (B&M comes to mind... oh wait a minute Hulk and Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge are B&M's...) but they cost far more to build. Vekoma started out life as the international arm of Arrow Dynamics, which is the company that built Big Bad Wolf (may it rest in peace) but also the ride systems for Pirates, Small World and basically all of Disneyland's original rides.

I have to agree, we just got back and went to both Universal and Disney. While Universal has definitly made a few misteps (Rip Roarin Rocket stinks IMHO) they are booming over there, and someone at Disney better be shaking in their boots. I do have to say this... Disney does have the intangibles cornered, I keep saying they put something in the water and now I am wondering if that's true. I love Disney, but Universal is just cool.

Jennifer

 

[stindall]

The Snow White and Dwarfs mine train is advanced technology? Please tell me you are joking... that's funny...

Dwarfs is a Vekoma, Everest is a Vekoma, Rockin' Roller Coaster... Vekoma. Disney picks them to build the physical ride (obviously not the theming), because they are cheap. Bottom line. If Disney wanted quality there are far better companies (B&M comes to mind... oh wait a minute Hulk and Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge are B&M's...) but they cost far more to build. Vekoma started out life as the international arm of Arrow Dynamics, which is the company that built Big Bad Wolf (may it rest in peace) but also the ride systems for Pirates, Small World and basically all of Disneyland's original rides.

I have to agree, we just got back and went to both Universal and Disney. While Universal has definitly made a few misteps (Rip Roarin Rocket stinks IMHO) they are booming over there, and someone at Disney better be shaking in their boots. I do have to say this... Disney does have the intangibles cornered, I keep saying they put something in the water and now I am wondering if that's true. I love Disney, but Universal is just cool.

Jennifer

Vekoma has some decent rides but Bolliger & Mabillard have better ones. I mean, Diamondback at Kings Island is one of the best coasters! Manta and the wing and dive coasters too! Ugh now I need a coaster fix!

 

[mesaboy2]

The Snow White and Dwarfs mine train is advanced technology? Please tell me you are joking... that's funny...

Dwarfs is a Vekoma, Everest is a Vekoma, Rockin' Roller Coaster... Vekoma. Disney picks them to build the physical ride (obviously not the theming), because they are cheap. Bottom line. If Disney wanted quality there are far better companies (B&M comes to mind... oh wait a minute Hulk and Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge are B&M's...) but they cost far more to build. Vekoma started out life as the international arm of Arrow Dynamics, which is the company that built Big Bad Wolf (may it rest in peace) but also the ride systems for Pirates, Small World and basically all of Disneyland's original rides.

I have to agree, we just got back and went to both Universal and Disney. While Universal has definitly made a few misteps (Rip Roarin Rocket stinks IMHO) they are booming over there, and someone at Disney better be shaking in their boots. I do have to say this... Disney does have the intangibles cornered, I keep saying they put something in the water and now I am wondering if that's true. I love Disney, but Universal is just cool.

Jennifer

I never said advanced technology. I said different technology, in so many words.

 

[chartle]

I never said advanced technology. I said different technology, in so many words.

How about never built technology?

I know of no other roller coaster that goes forwards and backwards like EE.

 

[larryz]

There have been inverted and suspended coasters that have swung. . . . .

And they all swing from under the track.

This ride's swing is mounted on the ride vehicle itself, above the track. The moment and stresses from the pivot point are extremely different from the suspended swingers. I expect them to have ride wear issues

 

[larryz]

Vekoma has some decent rides but Bolliger & Mabillard have better ones. I mean, Diamondback at Kings Island is one of the best coasters!

It's nice, but can't hold a candle to Apollo's Chariot...

 

[SuperDan523]

I do like B&M coasters for the thrill factor, but their harnesses are nowhere near accommodating for people of size. WDW seems to be rather sensitive to getting all of their guests access to every attraction, and Vekoma's harness systems seem to be much more friendly to that approach.

I discontinued purchasing season passes to the Six Flags that is half an hour from my house because I at some point had gone from it being a tight fit on most rides but I could ride everything, to I could only ride the two wooden coasters and some but not all of the non-coaster attractions.

I think EE, ToT, and RnR are definitely attempts to stay competitive on the thrill ride front. I would like to see them continue that trent. If not with the mine train, with some relatively near future development (perhaps in Avatarland or whatever they are going to do with LMA/Backlot).