Military families: Honest question... please no flames

[mrsklamc]

You cannot force democracy on a country. The desire must come from within, and we must allow the Iraqis to vote in whatever type of government suits their culture.

Sure you can. It's called 'Japan.'

ETA: I am in no way commenting on any current wars or politics. Just stating that we did, in fact, dictate to Japan what kind of government to have.

 

[JennaTX]

I think 95% of people who say bring our troops home, just mean let them all be safe and come home.

My DH was in the Navy, my Dad in the Air Force and my FIL in the Navy. I pray all of the time for our troops to come home. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with what they are doing, whether I want them to "win", etc. I just want every military person to come home to their family and friends.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Our family isnt offended by this phrase. We are pretty much live and let live. I also think you can support the troops and the mission even if you don't believe or understand the reasons they are there.

My personal opinion about people that say "bring the troops home" usually is using for a political motive and it's all talk. The military will never all be home. You want to support military then go pack a goody box or ask a military family if they need help or just mail a christmas card.

All in all I think that most people do mean well and send their well wishes to our military home and abroad.

 

[Nancyg56]

For those who want a parade to welcome our troops home, there are lots of folks who welcome them as they step onto US soil. I will never presume to speak for my nephews but I will share what they have told me. AS they came into the US via Maine both were surprised at the number of people who came out to welcome them back. Chris has served three tours in Iraq and he told me he has never come in without a warm welcome from strangers and has been moved each time these people have come to see them. His brother has served two tours in Iraq and while I have not been able to talk to him about his last homecoming his first was met with the same enthusiastic Welcome. He told me it was wonderful. They do not know exactly when they will come through so none of us have been able to be there. We are grateful for those warmhearted strangers who greet our family when we cannot.

 

[Took]

Sure you can. It's called 'Japan.'

ETA: I am in no way commenting on any current wars or politics. Just stating that we did, in fact, dictate to Japan what kind of government to have.

My husband is a historian who studies the Pacific. I have read about and listened to many, many hours on this particular issue. While we did, in fact, "dictate" a democracy, the conditions (political, social, and religious) under which we did that were very different from those in Iraq. One need only look at Japan's intellectual history (it had administrators and politicians ready to step into a democracy) and its uneasy (fearful?) relationship to the then USSR to see why cooperating with the West would have preferable to almost anything else. We also had the cooperation of its highest leader, Hirohito.

This is completely OT, I realize, but a weak knowledge of history can sometimes lead to erroneous conclusions.

I am a bit troubled by the "Support Our Troops, Support Our Mission" (though I fully understand the sentiment), only because it leaves NO middle ground, at all. In essence, to call those who don't support this war "unsupprotive of the military" is to set up a kind of "love me, love my dog" situation that is merely the flip side of the Vietnam era protestors who conflated soldiers with the Vietnam war, itself. I desperately hope that we don't come to that kind of ugly division in our nation, again. Those who oppose war (or this war, will be pushed to "take sides" completely, and many do not want to do this.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I thought more about this question and I really do think that it has a lot to do with comparisons to the Vietnam War. Although I haven't heard of our soldiers that are coming home from the Gulf being treated the way the soldiers were treated after Vietnam, a lot of the rhetoric compares this war to the Vietnam War and there are still a lot of people around who are Vietnam vets and remember how they were treated (I have a friend who served on an aircraft carrier and never stepped into Vietnam and he was still ostracized when he came home by women, potential employers, etc. and called a "baby killer.") Since this was a phrase used by the Vietnam War protesters, the association with that treatment is going to be there, whether it should be or not, when they hear it again.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't think people who protest the war are non-supportive of our troops. The context is a generalized statement of wanting the war to end and having our troops come home without any more injury or death. I don't think anyone expects us to pack up and have everyone home within a week, but I do think that many people would like to see the process start to happen.


I'll admit to being a crazy liberal, but I've never been in any environment that isn't supportive of our troops. I've never heard any ill words spoken of our military overall. Sure, you hear about crazy individuals, but not overall.

YOu be sure and tell that to some Vietnam Vets, I bet they can tell you of some non- supportive times.

 

[Nancyg56]

Please forgive me for taking this thread off topic but I am so angry and because this discussion has offered so many viewpoints I would like to use you all to let off some steam.

As I have often stated, I have two nephews who are US Marines. Since my nephew Chris graduated from boot camp in November 2001 my sister has not had them both home at the same time for any Holiday. Not one. Neither she nor they ever complain they all knew that this was part of the deal. This Thanksgiving they are both able to be home and since Timmy has just gotten back from his 2dn tour in Iraq we are all doubly grateful. A woman offered to cover for Gail, she works in a Children's hospital and there is really no such thing as Holiday's off. I am hosting the meal so that Gail can enjoy her sons. Turns out that after she offered to give Gail the Holiday home she told my sister that she needs to give up her Christmas for her making this the third Christmas in a row she would have to work. In this hospital that means both Christmas and Christmas Eve. Both Chris and Timmy will be home then as well so Gail opted to take her Thanksgiving back but she is so upset. Because of the shifts that the woman is scheduled she not only has to work the Holiday but is not putting in more hours than she would normally have done and this is during Timmy's leave. This woman knew that Gail thought this was an act of kindness and not a swap. I am heartbroken for my sister. She is going to have her family all at home for three days after Thanksgiving and we have altered our plans so that she will have dinner with the boys but that dinnertime will be less than three hours so that she can cover her shift.



This woman is one of those who will shout "Support the Troops" from the rooftops but when she had the opportunity to put her time where her rhetoric was she really was not willing to do it. Families need support too, Mother's who pray daily that their child will come home alive and Spouses who are Mom and Dad to the children and children who go to school worrying that they will miss a call from their parent..........they all need support. Support the troops is more than sending a calling card in the mail and wearing the flag on your lapel. Yes that feels good but if anyone really wants to support the men and women who wear the uniform then find out who in the community or in your workplace has family serving. You can really help those who are in the military by being there to help their families in a small way. They do not ask for help and I bet they do not even realize how much they shoulder but if you see an opportunity to be a friend don't pass it up.

 

[Took]

Please forgive me for taking this thread off topic but I am so angry and because this discussion has offered so many viewpoints I would like to use you all to let off some steam.

As I have often stated, I have two nephews who are US Marines. Since my nephew Chris graduated from boot camp in November 2001 my sister has not had them both home at the same time for any Holiday. Not one. Neither she nor they ever complain they all knew that this was part of the deal. This Thanksgiving they are both able to be home and since Timmy has just gotten back from his 2dn tour in Iraq we are all doubly grateful. A woman offered to cover for Gail, she works in a Children's hospital and there is really no such thing as Holiday's off. I am hosting the meal so that Gail can enjoy her sons. Turns out that after she offered to give Gail the Holiday home she told my sister that she needs to give up her Christmas for her making this the third Christmas in a row she would have to work. In this hospital that means both Christmas and Christmas Eve. Both Chris and Timmy will be home then as well so Gail opted to take her Thanksgiving back but she is so upset. Because of the shifts that the woman is scheduled she not only has to work the Holiday but is not putting in more hours than she would normally have done and this is during Timmy's leave. This woman knew that Gail thought this was an act of kindness and not a swap. I am heartbroken for my sister. She is going to have her family all at home for three days after Thanksgiving and we have altered our plans so that she will have dinner with the boys but that dinnertime will be less than three hours so that she can cover her shift.



This woman is one of those who will shout "Support the Troops" from the rooftops but when she had the opportunity to put her time where her rhetoric was she really was not willing to do it. Families need support too, Mother's who pray daily that their child will come home alive and Spouses who are Mom and Dad to the children and children who go to school worrying that they will miss a call from their parent..........they all need support. Support the troops is more than sending a calling card in the mail and wearing the flag on your lapel. Yes that feels good but if anyone really wants to support the men and women who wear the uniform then find out who in the community or in your workplace has family serving. You can really help those who are in the military by being there to help their families in a small way. They do not ask for help and I bet they do not even realize how much they shoulder but if you see an opportunity to be a friend don't pass it up.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry for your sister and appreciate your reminder to the rest of us. The very next time I see an opportunity, I will do as you suggest and give a military family a "break" if I can.

 

[mrsklamc]

My husband is a historian who studies the Pacific. I have read about and listened to many, many hours on this particular issue. While we did, in fact, "dictate" a democracy, the conditions (political, social, and religious) under which we did that were very different from those in Iraq. One need only look at Japan's intellectual history (it had administrators and politicians ready to step into a democracy) and its uneasy (fearful?) relationship to the then USSR to see why cooperating with the West would have preferable to almost anything else. We also had the cooperation of its highest leader, Hirohito.

This is completely OT, I realize, but a weak knowledge of history can sometimes lead to erroneous conclusions.

.

I do not have a weak knowledge of history and specifically stated that I was *not* comparing the situation to Iraq. That was just the first thing I thought when I read a blanket statement late at night. My post did not draw any conclusions, erroneous or otherwise.

 

[Took]

I do not have a weak knowledge of history and specifically stated that I was *not* comparing the situation to Iraq. That was just the first thing I thought when I read a blanket statement late at night. My post did not draw any conclusions, erroneous or otherwise.

I can only respond to what I read. I think, given the conversation, that the implication that the sitations were similar was there. I didn't mean to indicate that you personally had a weak knowledge of history but that lots of people who have made that comparison do.

In any case, I withdraw any implied criticism. I will drop the subject.

 

[ogreenlee]

YOu be sure and tell that to some Vietnam Vets, I bet they can tell you of some non- supportive times.

my father was a vietnam vet along with many people in my family. this ain't vietnam. our soldiers today are not being spit at.


i have to ask.. what constitutes a "win" in regards to iraq and afghanistan?

 

[lovemygoofy]

my father was a vietnam vet along with many people in my family. this ain't vietnam. our soldiers today are not being spit at.


i have to ask.. what constitutes a "win" in regards to iraq and afghanistan?

I am not going to get into this politics of this. I just want to comment that there are people that are still ugly to military members and their families.

I've had heard people call my husband a baby killer, murder, paid killer and other things. He has been boo'd and told he should get out and get a real job. Don't think that people still don't hate now.

Look up the crazies from the Westboro Baptist Church. These people picket against military funerals and military homecomings.

 

[Nancyg56]

my father was a vietnam vet along with many people in my family. this ain't vietnam. our soldiers today are not being spit at.


i have to ask.. what constitutes a "win" in regards to iraq and afghanistan?

Thank God for that! I remember that dark time and had family who came home to that Welcome.


I don't know what a win is. Honestly there may not be a win but I wish that there could be peace in that region. I have never understood why anyone kills in the name of God but it has happened over and over again throughout history and I think just about every religion has participated at one time or another.

 

[mhsjax]

my father was a vietnam vet along with many people in my family. this ain't vietnam. our soldiers today are not being spit at.


i have to ask.. what constitutes a "win" in regards to iraq and afghanistan?

I was talking about your not having been in an environment where people weren't supportive of troops I am not talking about what constitutes a "win" I am talking about attitude towards soldiers.

 

[mhsjax]

I am not going to get into this politics of this. I just want to comment that there are people that are still ugly to military members and their families.

I've had heard people call my husband a baby killer, murder, paid killer and other things. He has been boo'd and told he should get out and get a real job. Don't think that people still don't hate now.

Look up the crazies from the Westboro Baptist Church. These people picket against military funerals and military homecomings.

This is exactly the treatment I was talking about and it is terrible. I respect all people in our military. They deserve our respect and thanks, however, I would still love to have them all home safe and sound.

 

[Magic Mom]

I am not going to get into this politics of this. I just want to comment that there are people that are still ugly to military members and their families.

I've had heard people call my husband a baby killer, murder, paid killer and other things. He has been boo'd and told he should get out and get a real job. Don't think that people still don't hate now.

Look up the crazies from the Westboro Baptist Church. These people picket against military funerals and military homecomings.

Thank you for posting this Tina, I debated whether to say anything, but we have experienced the same type of thing. It isn't often, but it happens. People are fooling themselves if they think it doesn't.

 

[Ember]

I don't believe I've ever used the phrase, but I also wasn't aware of the implications. I consider myself educated now and will be careful of such words in the future. Thank you for the explanations without hostility. It's easy to be angered by ignorance, but often there is no malicious intent behind it. People need to be able to ask questions to gain knowledge so they can be better informed. It's nice to see that people can separate an actual desire for information from an attack.

 

[eliza61]

Politics are forbidden, and I think that would be wrapped up in a lot of people's answers (on either side.)

That said, I would guess that some of the negativity may be because of Vietnam protesters. In that era, soldiers couldn't come home peacefully; they'd be spat upon, mocked and ridiculed, have to hide their uniforms. So some people may relate 'bring our troops home' to those protestors from another era.

Again without going into politics I think it breaks down to
1)Those who believe that war is the worst of all possible evils
and
2) Those who think there are some things worth fighting for

Probably with some
3) some things are worth fighting for, but this ain't it
mixed in.

That's what I see with alot of my friends. I think the majority of Americans though do really, really appreciate our troops and I hope we never have a return to the ugliness of Vietnam.

I think we have to remember we have, sadly wackadoodles who feel that in order to express their views they must resort to hatemongering or name calling. While some times they are the loudest, I think they are a small minority.

 

[ogreenlee]

I think using Westboro Baptist Church isn't very fair. They're a cult that represents... heck, I don't even know what those maniacs represent. They hate everyone. Those people are whackjobs and frankly, I'd be happy if they all fell off the ends of the earth.


And it sucks that your husband has had these things shouted at him by anyone. It is uncalled for, but if they are just being spouted by Phelps and his gang, then those things have to be ignored. There are always going to be those who hate what the military stands for. They use individuals to spout off their hate instead of the leaders who put them there. But to let those few folks represent the rest of us who are against this war and that think our military should be used to defend us instead of fight in a war of religious and ethnic strongholds in that region... well that would be like me being mad at all the white people because of the few who called me gook, chink, chingchong and anything else you might imagine.

I think you're safe to think that most people are just like me and want everything our troops need while they are there, and want good decisions made considering they are risking their lives and livelihood. We just also happen to want this war to end.

I will place more regard to the words I use and the meaning that it brings. Instead of placing emphasis on the troops, I will say "end this war".

Thanks everyone... and especially those who put themselves in harm's way.