Middle Class Priced Out???

[runwad]

For us what makes it harder are the expiring tickets. We invested in the 10 day non-expiring tickets and got a lot of trips out of them when the kids were smaller. I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy more before they finished selling them for good. Those really helped our family make WDW more affordable for us. We have some days left on those and I find myself being miserly with them only wanting to do a day here or there in the parks and the rest of the time enjoy the rest of Orlando, to make them last.

Except for our first visit, we've always stayed off site to save money and have more room. It doesn't bother us in the least not to be on property. We're heading down in May and renting a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek and are excited to experience all that resort as to offer.

 

[Hikergirl]

depends on the everyday lifestyle/COL said Middle class family has. If they have no mtg? No college to save for? retirement squirreled away? If the typical society ducks are in a row, there should be enough to take a week WDW trip once a year. That said, since most still have those costs, IMHO, I think WDW is teetering very close to being hard to pull off for a week for the typical family of 4...onsite, without using miles, perks etc.

I just looked up the cost for a party of 4 to stay a week onsite at POP in the summer and right now it would be $27XX (7 day, no hoppers which is what we would get). I spent 2K of that to rent a cottage in OC last year. So in the end the prices are going to be pretty close (when you add food and activities cost). The transportation is big for WDW because I won't drive but I can't hold Disney responsible for that.

Also out of curiousity I priced one night and one day at MK for 4 an it comes up the same as what I'm paying to stay in Boston one night and see the Celtics.

I guess my point is that while I may complain about the prices of WDW, they aren't totally out of line with other vacations or events. One benefit of a WDW vacation, is that you can really do it as inexpensive or expensive as you want. Driving, staying offsite will save you so much over flying, staying deluxe onsite. Sure the ticket prices will be the same, but there are so many options to save other places. I think when those options are gone then that is when most middle class will be priced out.

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

Actually, I thought that too... until we vacationed in Hawaii. We live on the east coast and vacationed in Hawaii last June. We are a family of 4 and our airfare was $800 per person so $3200. The Condo we rented at the Ilikai in Waikiki was $150/night for 8 nights so $1200. And it was a NICE condo, newly renovated, granite countertops, stainless steel full kitchen, amazing views from the 21st floor, nice, new furniture, huge tiled walk in shower in a fresh, modern bathroom. We purchased the Go Oahu card from Costco for our activities and used the heck out of it. We went on a catamaran sail, a horseback ride at Kualoa ranch (2 of us) and a jeep tour for the others, swam at Waimea Falls, snorkled at Hanuama Bay, toured Pearl Harbor, hiked Diamond Head, went to the Polynesia Cultural Center for a luau, Breath of Ha show, and the exhibits, went to the Pineapple Plantation. The cost of the card was $180 for the adults and $165 I think for kids. We ate breakfast at the condo and ordered pizza in one night when we were tired but otherwise ate out. We tried to find reasonably priced restaurants and we were pretty successful. We rented a car for the length of our stay and paid around $380 for the entire time. All in all, our amazing trip that we all enjoyed hugely cost less than $7000.

We are headed to Orlando next week but we are not visiting Disney. We are staying onsite at a Universal deluxe hotel for 2 nights so we get 3 days worth of express passes. We are then moving to an offsite hotel and will visit Lego Land. We are purchasing an annual pass and the Universal hotel was a really good deal at the AP rate, less than what we would pay for a moderate at Disney. I compared prices and the same trip at WDW staying in a moderate would have cost significantly more. We decided on Universal though, not so much because of the money, but because of the planning. I thought about WDW but then decided that I simply didn't feel like stalking ADR's, stalking fast passes, and running around in the parks watching the clock in order not to miss a dinner reservation or a fastpass time. I am looking forward to just going with the flow next week and I am excited to see the Harry Potter stuff in the wizarding world. I don't know when we will go back to WDW but I know it won't be for a while.

Your Hawaiian vacation sounds amazing!!!

 

[Buzzsgramma]

We are DVC so I will comment if i may..DH and I just stayed (rented points from a friend)10 days Jan-Feb at BWV one bd room...NO PARKS....we bought groceries and cooked many meals in the room....Ate at Trattoria and Captains Grill and Big River Grill each for dinner...We were there mostly to get out of the cold of northern Ill...DH golfed 2 x....We are retired (he is) since 2007...
.
We haven't bought an AP, TIW or DP in years......In May 2017 we are taking all the family....12or14 of us....2-2bd rms at BWV for 4 days...We will pay for some dinners out and when we are together....also groceries...I told them we will buy 2 day base tickets for each person....other days...DS or swim....or whatever....All the grand kids are adults.....many in this family adore Disney ...

We are taking 4 of the grandkids to U/IOA for one day park to park before this trip....We also are paying for airfare for those flying.....Sadly I know this will be it for us taking everyone....I won't even go into the $$$$.....

 

[Darcy03231]

Maybe but the all inclusives that are cheaper than Disney are kind of sketchy. A low end Disney trip is better than food poisoning in the DR.

But seriously, if you stay at a Disney value or off site and eat cheaply (which can be done) it's definitely a middle class vacation no matter how you define middle class.

If you want a monorail resort and the deluxe dining plan, etc - yes many people are priced out. But it's kind of always been that way. As a kid in the 70s we could never afford to stay at the Contemporary or Poly. We didn't even think about it. That was something only rich people did. We vacationed in a cheap beach cottage and packed 7 people in a car to come to MK for the day. We brought sandwiches for lunch. You didn't get to ride everything you wanted because you only had so many E tickets.

From my perspective Disney opened up to more people with moderate, and especially the value, resorts. Without those I wouldn't have ever considered a week long Disney vacation.

That being said everything is a bit overpriced. I've always said you get what you pay for except at Disney you get about 80% of what you pay for. But we splurge a little bit every 3 or 4 years because it's different from anywhere else and everyone has a good time. Price increases hurt. If it was cheaper we might go more often or stay longer but I don't see them pricing me out any time soon.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. We're going to Sandals LaSource in Grenada. Just for fun I priced out both options. As all of the rooms at Sandals are deluxe I used their least expensive option, as well as WDW's least expensive option. Here's what I came up with:

Sandals LaSource - $3742 for 7 nights, plus $783 for airfare for a total of $4525. Sandals is truly all-inclusive. All water sports (i.e., scuba diving, snorkeling, waterskiing, etc.) as well as land sports. Also includes a sunset catamaran cruise, all food and all liquor, including premium liquor. No tipping allowed.

Animal Kingdom Lodge, 7 nights, standard view, 7 day park hoppers and deluxe dining plan (because Sandals includes three sit down meals per day, plus all alcohol, and anything else you want to eat/drink). $5,795 plus airfare of $440 for a total of $6,235. This doesn't include the tips for the 3 sit-down meals per day or any adult beverage we may want to order.

 

[Beer Me]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. We're going to Sandals LaSource in Grenada. Just for fun I priced out both options. As all of the rooms at Sandals are deluxe I used their least expensive option, as well as WDW's least expensive option. Here's what I came up with:

Sandals LaSource - $3742 for 7 nights, plus $783 for airfare for a total of $4525. Sandals is truly all-inclusive. All water sports (i.e., scuba diving, snorkeling, waterskiing, etc.) as well as land sports. Also includes a sunset catamaran cruise, all food and all liquor, including premium liquor. No tipping allowed.

Animal Kingdom Lodge, 7 nights, standard view, 7 day park hoppers and deluxe dining plan (because Sandals includes three sit down meals per day, plus all alcohol, and anything else you want to eat/drink). $5,795 plus airfare of $440 for a total of $6,235. This doesn't include the tips for the 3 sit-down meals per day or any adult beverage we may want to order.

That's a good deal. We did Dreams resort in Mexico that was a bit more than your sandals quote. I will have to look into that.

I guess my point is that you can do Disney cheaper. Not necessarily luxury digs but there are affordable options for middle class folk. I could do a week in Disney for less than 3k if I was really trying to keep costs down. AKL + deluxe dining is nice but not necessary.

 

[mslhb]

We typically go to Disney every 3 years. I agree with the other posters that I don't spend anymore on a Disney vacation then I would spend going other places. Typically we have a set vacation budget for the year and we choose a destination/hotel/airfare/length of stay that is within that $ amount. Yes prices have certainly gone up but for now it hasn't stopped us from visiting Disney.

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. We're going to Sandals LaSource in Grenada. Just for fun I priced out both options. As all of the rooms at Sandals are deluxe I used their least expensive option, as well as WDW's least expensive option. Here's what I came up with:

Sandals LaSource - $3742 for 7 nights, plus $783 for airfare for a total of $4525. Sandals is truly all-inclusive. All water sports (i.e., scuba diving, snorkeling, waterskiing, etc.) as well as land sports. Also includes a sunset catamaran cruise, all food and all liquor, including premium liquor. No tipping allowed.

Animal Kingdom Lodge, 7 nights, standard view, 7 day park hoppers and deluxe dining plan (because Sandals includes three sit down meals per day, plus all alcohol, and anything else you want to eat/drink). $5,795 plus airfare of $440 for a total of $6,235. This doesn't include the tips for the 3 sit-down meals per day or any adult beverage we may want to order.

Did you price with the crazy discount they have going on right now? I'm being quoted 8K for 7 nights there and it only comes down to 3100 with the current promotion that is 65% off.

 

[adisneyaunt]

We are DVC so I will comment if i may..DH and I just stayed (rented points from a friend)10 days Jan-Feb at BWV one bd room...NO PARKS....we bought groceries and cooked many meals in the room....Ate at Trattoria and Captains Grill and Big River Grill each for dinner...We were there mostly to get out of the cold of northern Ill...DH golfed 2 x....We are retired (he is) since 2007...
.
We haven't bought an AP, TIW or DP in years......In May 2017 we are taking all the family....12or14 of us....2-2bd rms at BWV for 4 days...We will pay for some dinners out and when we are together....also groceries...I told them we will buy 2 day base tickets for each person....other days...DS or swim....or whatever....All the grand kids are adults.....many in this family adore Disney ...

We are taking 4 of the grandkids to U/IOA for one day park to park before this trip....We also are paying for airfare for those flying.....Sadly I know this will be it for us taking everyone....I won't even go into the $$$$.....

What a wonderful memory you will be making with Everyone. Family Vacation/Together time can Never Be Replaced imho!!!
Wishing you a Wonderful Visit!

 

[tvguy]

Odd thing is when I was in college 1975 to 1979 2 friends and I made several trips to Disneyland for 4 days and 3 nights on a budget of $100 each.
Expenses were 800 miles round trip gasoline divided by 3.
1 camp site at the KOA that used to be where the parking garage is now divided by 3
Park admission.
All meals
I was making $5 an hour at the time, so 20 hours pay.

 

[FINFAN]

I just looked up the cost for a party of 4 to stay a week onsite at POP in the summer and right now it would be $27XX (7 day, no hoppers which is what we would get). I spent 2K of that to rent a cottage in OC last year. So in the end the prices are going to be pretty close (when you add food and activities cost). The transportation is big for WDW because I won't drive but I can't hold Disney responsible for that.

Also out of curiousity I priced one night and one day at MK for 4 an it comes up the same as what I'm paying to stay in Boston one night and see the Celtics.

I guess my point is that while I may complain about the prices of WDW, they aren't totally out of line with other vacations or events. One benefit of a WDW vacation, is that you can really do it as inexpensive or expensive as you want. Driving, staying offsite will save you so much over flying, staying deluxe onsite. Sure the ticket prices will be the same, but there are so many options to save other places. I think when those options are gone then that is when most middle class will be priced out.

well since 4 park WDW is only 1 location in FL (as opposed to several beach options on either coast or several mountain choices East/West (I think the transportation for 2/3 of people does have to be factored in~ not by much because a family still travels to a different situation but it does factor in) You mention when some options are added is when most middle class will be priced out, that's what I mean by teetering close. I will say for the current rack rate for a Moderate or Deluxe, comparing room only~ other non WDW hotels deluxe hotels offer a better value for one's dollar. It's just sad to see WDW get out of reach for more and more people.

 

[Hikergirl]

well since 4 park WDW is only 1 location in FL (as opposed to several beach options on either coast or several mountain choices East/West (I think the transportation for 2/3 of people does have to be factored in~ not by much because a family still travels to a different situation but it does factor in) You mention when some options are added is when most middle class will be priced out, that's what I mean by teetering close. I will say for the current rack rate for a Moderate or Deluxe, comparing room only~ other non WDW hotels deluxe hotels offer a better value for one's dollar. It's just sad to see WDW get out of reach for more and more people.

I don't totally disagree with you, but I think its the rising cost of everything, not just WDW. I can't say WDW is pricing me out and ignore that airfare to get there for my family has doubled in the last few years.
I still think there are plenty of options to make WDW affordable to middle class families.

 

[crisi]

I don't think Disney is that interested in keeping its repeat middle class customers. They have limited capacity, and people spend more when they take a "once in a lifetime" trip - they are better off with the once in a lifetimers. Or those people who are willing to put the capital up front into DVC and give Disney the time value of money advantage. Or those repeat customers who will fill their high end restaurants for five or six nights a week - and after years of repeat visits don't even bother to wait in line for The Jungle Cruise - and do rides only if they have a Fastpass /the line is short/ it is on their must list. The people that want to stay every year at a Value or Moderate don't create enough margin for Disney to try to make it affordable.

And to answer the question - yes. Disney has been outpacing inflation for years - and incomes have been stagnant for years. People ESPECIALLY find themselves outpriced as their family situation changes from a couple, to a couple with a child under three, to a family paying for kids tickets, to a family of Disney adults when the kids all over ten. And then, if your family happens to have more than four people in it - you don't have inexpensive onsite options (except maybe renting DVC points), and offsite options for people who fly involve the added expenses of renting a car.

 

[DrummerBoy523]

Getting real expensive. Still get our annual pass and stay off site a lot. I feel sorry for someone who goes for about 5 days and stays on site. That gets pretty expensive for a family.

With flights from Nashville, onsite and DDP, we are over 5K.

 

[DrummerBoy523]

Didn't prices only go up 3%? I would hope most people got at least that for a raise since that's about what is considered a cost of living raise. I do think a lot of people go all out at Disney and live the luxury life with out having the luxury money to back it. Sure it is fine to save up and do that once if you are going to only ever go once but Deluxe, TS every night, extras on top of extra, etc every single trip is not meant for the "average" family. I think with Disney people forget their realistic budgets and buy the magic they think the need instead of letting the experience speak for itself.

I would DIE for a 3% raise. Companies now are pretty tight - at least mine is. 2.5% for the top performers. When I first started working 25 years ago - 10% raises were typical. Dang, I'd take a 10% raise now. Heck, I'd take a 3% lol

 

[manning]

I do agree with you that the value received at WDW vs. what we receive has certainly decreased.

Big time. The youngsters know what WDW was in the 70s 80s. It was expensive then but you got top notch value. I can remember turn down service with chocolate candy on the pillow.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I have only been to WDW once, and yes for our income it has priced us right out. No way could I afford to do it now. I guess I have the memories from that time.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

Been gone for 24 hours. Pretty cool to read about the other destinations and costs. We have always tried to offset the high cost of WDW with the usual collection of thrifty strategies.......ordering water.......bringing in snack food and drinks............eating a kids meal to hold us over until a meal out in Kissimmee, etc, etc.

When we stay on site, we either stayed at Shades of Green, or used the military discount for Pop. The special tickets were the only way we could afford to go. It was only after we moved to Atlanta that we could make enough trips, while driving, to justify an AP. Our daughter knew that in exchange for several trips a year, we would be staying in a cheap, but safe, motel.

 

[100AcreWood]

We stay offsite in a condo and I have found ways to cut costs over the years as the prices increased. To everyone 's point, the parks are definitely crowded so clearly many people are spending money on Disney vacations.

 

[tvguy]

I don't think Disney is that interested in keeping its repeat middle class customers. They have limited capacity, and people spend more when they take a "once in a lifetime" trip - they are better off with the once in a lifetimers. Or those people who are willing to put the capital up front into DVC and give Disney the time value of money advantage. Or those repeat customers who will fill their high end restaurants for five or six nights a week - and after years of repeat visits don't even bother to wait in line for The Jungle Cruise - and do rides only if they have a Fastpass /the line is short/ it is on their must list. The people that want to stay every year at a Value or Moderate don't create enough margin for Disney to try to make it affordable.

And to answer the question - yes. Disney has been outpacing inflation for years - and incomes have been stagnant for years. People ESPECIALLY find themselves outpriced as their family situation changes from a couple, to a couple with a child under three, to a family paying for kids tickets, to a family of Disney adults when the kids all over ten. And then, if your family happens to have more than four people in it - you don't have inexpensive onsite options (except maybe renting DVC points), and offsite options for people who fly involve the added expenses of renting a car.

I agree. It is also the reason 3 and 4 day cruises on DCL are more profitable than 7 day cruises. You run twice as many people a week through your gift shops buying that special Tee shirt, or stuff animal.