Mexico is "Enraged" with the proposed U.S wall.

[DawnCt1]

That one is laughable. Our poor (the poor of the US) are wealthy compared to the poor of the third world.

I actually agree with you. People from the third world dream of coming to a country "where the poor people are fat". It is unthinkable that the poor could be fat in countries where the people are starving to death. Poor is certainly a "relative" term.

[/QUOTE]
As a nation, we should see it in our best interest to assist the econonomy of our neighbors (Latin America) - if they can make their place better, we all win. How do we assist the economy? Working partnerships - education with business leaders, government officals and educational institutions. It's a sharing of knowledge, not money.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him to fish.....

 

[DarkSideMoon]

Is he an American citizen? Do his parents pay taxes? When he refers to himself as a taxpayer, is he being inclusive of his family? You're grasping at straws here Chobie. We all know what he means. By attacking the poster, you are not supporting your opinion, which seems to be, that anyone who wants to enter the country should be free to come and go, drive without car insurance, not bother to carry health insurance and when they commit a crime, take up space in our jails, when they get sick, take up space in our hospitals and fill our schools with their offspring. Just think, if they put as much energy into their own economies as they do jumping across the Rio Grande, Mexico might turn into a self sufficient economy.

Thank you!

 

[chobie]

So how do you know I don't pay taxes? because I did not reply to your asking my job?

Do you have a job?

 

[DawnCt1]

But you are assuming that the American employer would be willing to pay them a fair wage and document their employees as they are supposed to under the law. Many farm laborers, both for large and small farms, are undocumented, living on the property of the farmer in a house provided by the farmer, often without running water or electricity. It isn't any big "news" to locals, it's been happening for generations.

The example of New England, and particularly the tobacco farms in Ct. prove that doesn't have to be the case. Documented workers enter the state from Jamaica and earn enough money to support their families for a year. In addition to that, they are provided with housing and transportation to go shopping at least on a weekly basis. It has happened every year since I was a child and probably before that. These farms are typically owned by families and aren't huge mega farms. BTW, farm work can be paid at rates lower than minimum wage but they typically aren't. In our area local kids can work at the age of 14 and the starting rate is $8.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

Do you have a job?

You don't need a job to pay taxes.This is not a thread about whether DarkSideMoon has a job or not, it is about the huge added expenditure the american people as a whole, not just me, are paying.

 

[Disney Doll]

Actually, the article you posted stated statistics for families in the US HEADED by an illegal alien. However, if a child was born here in the US, that child IS a US citizen...entitiled to all the rights thereof. If the parents were to take that child back to Mexico to raise, we'd be sending more than the deficit between their income here and what they "need" here to them in Mexico to care for that child.

Actually, I saw a very interesting documentary a few years back on the number of mexican women who come here just before their due dates so their child will be born in the USA and then be a "citizen". Of course, they go back to Mexico once the child is born, and just come back and forth when necessary to take advantage of the benfits of their child being an "American citizen".

Look, the bottom line is that most of us have no major problem with someone who wants to come here from another country to try ad make a better life for themselves. Despite all our faults, I still think America is the greatest country in the world, and one where you can truly change your "station" in life if you choose to work hard to do so.

I would just like it to be done legally. That's all. We have an immigration process. We even have a political asylum process, for those who truly feel as if their native countries are persecuting them. Just be legal, that's all. Don't swim across the river, sneak in, and fly under the radar, using our services, and paying no taxes. I live here. I like to live here. I have no desire to live anywhere else. Love to visit other countries, see other cultures etc., but for my homeland, it's the USA. I do pay taxes for the privelege of living here, and if you want to live here, so should you.

The poor...well, you know what...I do help the poor. I give time, money, clothing, health care supplies, toiletry supplies, volunteer my time in a health care ministry, with the goal in mind of helping the poor. And I am well-aware that there are those among us who will always need public support because they are too...whatever...sick, mentally ill, weak...call it what you want...to ever support themselves. And I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to support those poor souls, because, but for the grace of God, it could be me or my family members. But guess what, every person who illegally comes here from Mexico does not fall into that category. Many of those folks are able-bodied and able to work hard, and would earn more than $5/hour if they were here legally.

Do not presume to knwo what I do as far as charitable works are concerned, and do not presume that just because I don't want to support every Mexican person that chooses to live here illegally that I am not following the WWJD tenets.

Jesus also said "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God" when asked a the question about taxes. I think that's what I do.

 

[DoeWDW]

As other posters have said, build the wall and create a migrant worker visa, so these people can be here legally.

It's our country and I'll gladly suffer any economic consequences (IF there are any) associated with controlling our borders. Besides wouldn't we be doing a service to those who die or are injured now while crossing the border illegally via smugglers or other dangerous ways.

 

[chobie]

Feliz Navidad!

 

[dcentity2000]

I wonder how effective a wall will be? You can't possibly expect to man it through it's ENTIRE length, so couldn't migrants thwart the wall by using, I dunno, a ladder?



Rich::

 

[Nancy]

You don't need a job to pay taxes.This is not a thread about whether DarkSideMoon has a job or not, it is about the huge added expenditure the american people as a whole, not just me, are paying.

So right, I could be a single parent, not working, living in a home and on public assistance, but if I owned a home, I'd be paying school and state/county/village taxes. Just cause taxes don't come out of a paycheck doesn't mean you don't pay them. Whenever you purchase an item, there is a tax on it, so if I buy clothes, I pay taxes. If I was retired and collecting SS and I had a home I would have to pay school and state/county/village taxes. Having a paycheck doesn't mean you are the only people paying taxes.

My 15 and 17 yr olds both work, they have taxes taken out...puts them at less than minimum wage.

 

[Chuck S]

And just whose property would this wall be built on? It is kind of hard to build a wall in the middle of the Rio Grande, which is where the actual border wth Texas is. Should the gov't take prime real estate overlooking the river to build it? Once people cross the river, even if the haven't come to the wall yet, they would still be on US soil.

What about the cattlemen that depend on the water in the Rio Grande for their herds? Is our gov't going to support them, or buy their entire ranch to build a strip of wall? Our gov't has NOTHING better to do with $8 billion? And how many time has a gov't project come in anywhere near budget? If the estimate is $8 billion, in truth it will likely cost at least double that.

Remember, if these "illegal aliens" are coming over the border, working for next to nothing, and not paying taxes, maybe we should blame the people employing them. Of course, when he price of food increases because of it, and you hear complaints about the economy, pat yourselves on the back.

And Dawn, if you have Jamaican workers, not Mexican workers in New England, why does what goes on the Texas concern you? It's not a problem for most Texans.

AGain, for those that say there are Americans working for $5 per hour and payig taxes...yes...but I don't think they pay income taxes on that small of an income, with earned income credit, personal deductions, etc, it normally drops their "taxable income" below the minimum level for taxes. They also qualify for medicaid, welfare, and housing supplements that undocumented illegal workers can not qualify for. They are not supporting them selves, they are on public asssistance. The undocumented worker, in order to "live" must either support himself or have a "sponsor" willing to do so.

 

[cardaway]

And just whose property would this wall be built on? It is kind of hard to build a wall in the middle of the Rio Grande, which is where the actual border wth Texas is. Should the gov't take prime real estate overlooking the river to build it? Once people cross the river, even if the haven't come to the wall yet, they would still be on US soil.

That's the part that always gets me. I do think it's a good idea, but I can't imagine it happening given the logistics.

 

[ecr110]

Actually a good portion of illegal immigrants pay taxes. The IRS has a program where the illegal immigrants can apply for an individual taxpayer identification number for people who don't have a SSN but still pay federal taxes. Under this program, they do pay taxes under the same programs that legal citizens pay. The last statistics I heard was that over 5 million people have signed up using this program since its inception in 1996.

 

[ecr110]

And actually illegal immigrants are helping to support the Social Security system. Even though they pay taxes that go to Social Security, they are not eligible to receive it. Most of the surplus is being unclaimed since the illegal immigrants are either working with bogus SSNs or with their valid ITIN. The CIS estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002. The Social Security Administration stashes these earnings in the 'earnings suspense file'- in the 90s, this file was worth $189 billion, twice what it was in the 80s. In the current decade, the file is generating, by year, over $6 billion in Social Security tax revenue. It is estimated that this contribution is about 10% of the surplus accrued yearly by Social Security taxes.
I would think that this would be a benefit to keeping illegal immigration, besides the cost in health care, as this is basically a tax free subsidy to social security.

 

[tikilyn]

Umm, you don't have to "sneak" over the border to get your child born here. Folks walk over the border, legally, every day to shop and visit family. Are we going to stop letting pregnant women do that? You know, you can drive in, legally, up to 250 miles in the US. Lots of Mexicans shop in San Antonio. Tour busses routinely go to Houston from Mexico. Shall we check each woman at the border to see how far "along" in their pregnancy they may be?

Funny, I could have sworn our country loves to hold itself up as an example in Human Rights. I guess only when it is convenient, huh?

Your information is SOOOO WRONG!! My dh is a Border Patrol Agent and this is what he tells me.

A mexican with broder crossing permits can cross at anytime. They can not go no more than 25 miles north of the border and can only stay in that 25 mile radius for 30 days. The groups of tours you are talking about have to have permits to got futher north.

Thats why there are check points on the major highways about 50 to 60 miles north. Example: If you are here in Brownsville Tx and your going to Houston via hwy 77 north. You will hit an area that we call the dead zone (ie, no stores or gas stations for about 60 miles). Right before you come to Kingsville you will hit a check point. For any Mexican or (other nationality) that comes up to the check point must have a VISA (permit to go futher north). If they don't they will be taken back accross the border to Mexico (for the mexicans) or to a detention center to wait to be return to there country.

 

[tikilyn]

Maybe you need to talk to some Americans that live along the boarder and discuss the crime in their area. They all are not "risking their lives to feed their children". Many are crossing the boarder to engage in criminal activity.

I live in Border town and it sucks. I mean it feels like I'm living in Mexico! My friends and I call this town and pretty much any border town little Mexico! I want to go to work but can't, why I must speak Spanish! WTH, I thought I was living in the US where our Language is ENGLISH and yes this is the language of the US. They teach it in our school's as a mandatory class. It's not an elective! So if I wanted to or needed to work the only places I could really get hire down here would be wal mart, target places like that. Forget it for the good paying jobs.

Anyways I agree with you 100%!!

 

[Feralpeg]

I'll get flamed for this one. Why doesn't the US just annex Mexico? They seem to want to be part of the US. They could be a territory. Then, more US business would be likely to move there and conditions would improve. Perhaps people living in Mexico would actually want to live there!

 

[Chuck S]

Your information is SOOOO WRONG!! My dh is a Border Patrol Agent and this is what he tells me.

A mexican with broder crossing permits can cross at anytime. They can not go no more than 25 miles north of the border and can only stay in that 25 mile radius for 30 days. The groups of tours you are talking about have to have permits to got futher north.

Thats why there are check points on the major highways about 50 to 60 miles north. Example: If you are here in Brownsville Tx and your going to Houston via hwy 77 north. You will hit an area that we call the dead zone (ie, no stores or gas stations for about 60 miles). Right before you come to Kingsville you will hit a check point. For any Mexican or (other nationality) that comes up to the check point must have a VISA (permit to go futher north). If they don't they will be taken back accross the border to Mexico (for the mexicans) or to a detention center to wait to be return to there country.

Then please explain why the parking lots in the San Antonio malls are filled with cars having Mexican license plates during Christmas and Easter seasons?

 

[Chuck S]

I live in Border town and it sucks. I mean it feels like I'm living in Mexico! My friends and I call this town and pretty much any border town little Mexico! I want to go to work but can't, why I must speak Spanish! WTH, I thought I was living in the US where our Language is ENGLISH and yes this is the language of the US. They teach it in our school's as a mandatory class. It's not an elective! So if I wanted to or needed to work the only places I could really get hire down here would be wal mart, target places like that. Forget it for the good paying jobs.

Anyways I agree with you 100%!!

Please show me where English is the official language of the US? It may be the most common language, but it is not THE language. Last I saw ballots were multi-lingual. So, living in Brownsville your employers want you to be multi-lingual to better communicate with their clients? Hmmm...sounds like good business, after all, if you feel immigrants should be forced to learn English, why shouldn't you be "forced" to learn Spanish if that is what an employer desires? What's good for the goose...

 

[bubie2.5]

I live in a small Caribbean island shared by two countries. One is a very poor and the other one is poorer. There’s being talk about building a “wall” here also. Illegal immigration is everywhere.

I know starvation and desperation can cause people to leave their country (where they’re “surely” being treated fairly) to go somewhere where they “cease to exist” in the eyes of the government, are paid less than minimum wage and work harder and extra hours. Even if they’re being taken advantage of… is a choice they make.

But I’m completely against illegal immigration. Every country has the right to decide who’s allowed in, and must do what it can to protect the rights and privileges of it’s citizens and legal residents.