Mental illness issues...please help--UPDATE page 3

[HappyMommy2]

We have a bit of a dilemma and I feel the need to get some input from people on the "outside" of the situation, so thanks in advance for any thoughts you can offer on this.

DH's parents, who we love dearly and who live far away, have invited us to visit over spring break. It's a kind invitation, but what bothers me is the presence of DH's 35-year-old brother, who lives across town from his parents. Sadly BIL has been an alcoholic for many years and has been diagnosed with severe manic depression, schizophrenia, and panic disorder. He has been in and out of treatment facilities. He is heavily medicated now with anti-psychotics and anti-depressants and has been sober for a year or so, though is still far from able to provide from himself so his parents take care of all his needs. When we visit DH's parents, BIL usually comes over in a cab or DH's dad picks him up and brings him over for the day. His visits have previously been amiable and not uncomfortable. However, when we were there recently, he was acting extremely strangely--sometimes seemingly happy and kind, then suddenly angry and snarly, then meek again. He stared off into space a lot, then would suddenly speak harshly to our little boys (he explained later that he feels he needs to discipline our kids so they won't turn out like him). Previously he has been nothing but gentle toward our kids so this was a change. He was also clearly resentful of our family's happiness. After a while, visibly upset, he wandered away from the house and DFIL went after him and found him at a bus stop (BIL said he was planning to "get on a bus to nowhere, where it's safe") and took him home. Later he called MIL and attacked her verbally.

The whole situation makes me think twice about visiting the in-laws again. My in-laws do not consider BIL dangerous, but I wonder. A few years ago, he was jailed overnight for shooting a gun into the ceiling in a rage. Also he tried to break down my in-laws' door once, and tried to strangle DFIL. He has broken furniture and other things in a rage countless times in past years. He has not had any overtly violent episodes in about four years, so MIL and FIL feel that BIL is "through with the violent stage" of his illness, though he is still extremely verbally abusive. All of this sets off alarm bells all through me now that we have our kids to think of, and even more so since BIL boasted constantly during our last visit of how he had been going to shooting ranges. I can't stand the thought of telling DH parents we can't come anymore, especially since that would mean we wouldn't see them at all (they can't come to visit us because when they leave town BIL has panic attacks and ends up in the hospital). DH thinks I am overreacting--he agrees that BIL's behavior is a concern but feels like he could "fend him off" if anything should happen since BIL is not a strong man physically anymore.

I feel sick to my stomach about this. I wonder if I do not know enough about mental illness to make an informed decision. I wonder if I've watched too many horror stories on the news. I don't know. Thank you for listening, anyhow! Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Mermaid02]

I wouldn't put myself or my children in that kind of situation. He sounds unpredictable to me- which means just that, he could do anything. If I did go, I would stay in a hotel and ask my inlaws not to tell bil that we are visiting. Why expose your children to him?? Kids don't understand mental illness.

I'm no expert, but that's what I would do.

 

[Chicago526]

At the last visit, it sounds like he either went off his meds or they needed to be adjusted. If they just needed adjustment, they docs may have done that by now and he could be fine. If he went off his meds, then there could be BIG problems on the horizon.

What I would do is be open and honest with the in-laws and your husband. That you won't visit if BIL is going to be there too.

I wish you luck!

 

[phillybeth]

DH thinks I am overreacting--he agrees that BIL's behavior is a concern but feels like he could "fend him off" if anything should happen since BIL is not a strong man physically anymore.

How do you overpower a GUN? IMO, I would stay home with the kids. Let DH go by himself if he feels the need.
It's not so much not exposing the kids to mental illness- kids need to learn that there are all kinds of people. But this man is violent, unpredictable and potentially dangerous. I would not put my kids at risk.

 

[missypie]

I wouldn't go. DH can go by himself whenever he wants, but I'd make excuses to stay home with the kids, for as long as you can...or at least until the kids are old and physically large. All it would take is for a bit of his discipline to go too far and the results could be terrible.

 

[mrsv98]

My step father is bi-polar and has to have his meds monitored constantly. As the body changes, the chemical composition changes and what worked before doesn't work now. I would inquire, or have your DH do so and see if he is being closely watched by a medical professional. If not, it sounds like he needs his meds adjusted. Until he is stable again, I would not put my children in that situation, it sounds like he is upredictable and being little, it would be easier for them to get hurt. I am sorry you are in this situation, mental illnesses are never easy to deal with.

 

[swilphil]

Tell your in-laws that you would love to stay with them, but don't want to have BIL at their house while you are there. If that's not possible, perhaps you could stay at a hotel. You also may be able to reach a comfortable agreement where if BIL seems to be doing okay he can come to their house. If he starts acting violent or you feel uncomfortable with his gun talk, then either he leaves or you take the kids on an outing until he's gone. It's a sad situation. I'm sure your in-laws would love to spend some quality time with your husband, so he can always go without you.

 

[poohandwendy]

That's a shame, I would talk to the inlaws about it and tell them that you are not comfortable visiting when he is there. And that you will NOT visit when he is there. I agree that it sounds like he either goes off his meds or they need adjusted. Doesn't make any difference though, you and your children should not be around him when he is unstable.

Your DH is being unrealistic about the severity of a potential altercation, but he probably doesn't want to believe his brother really could do anything dangerous. The odds are that he won't, but 'odds' aren't enough assurance for you and the kids.

Sorry to hear that your BIL is not doing very well, mental illness is a really tough thing for families to deal with.

 

[ahutton]

That is not an environment I could expose my kids to, especially while young. There are too many possibilities of what could go wrong, even if it didn't resort to physical violence. It would just be too scary. I am now realizing more and more often how sensitive to fears my kids are, especially my four year old. She has a vivid, strong memory of our night in a hotel 18 months ago, when the fire alarm went off and we had to evacuate in the middle of the night. She is terrified of it happening again, and still talks about what a bad place that was. I can't imagine her fears revolving around a family member who starts yelling for no apparent reason, let alone if they were to witness violence. DH may be able to physically protect you and them, but depending on the depth of an episode sometimes physical strength far exceeds "normal" capacity, and would you want your kids memories of visiting Grandma and Grandpa to include Daddy having to protect them? Or have them start to worry about what if that same illness were to happen to someone else they love and trust? It would not be worth it to me. I would arrange a visit, but not include the brother. Maybe there is someplace close you can vacation to, where your ILs can visit easily during the day without having to involve his brother? Or will the honor your preference to not visit with him?

 

[dcentity2000]

Sadly BIL has been an alcoholic for many years and has been diagnosed with severe manic depression, schizophrenia, and panic disorder

That's so horrible for the poor guy

The trouble with psychosis is that the sufferor loses touch with reality - that is the central symptom. They don't intend the harm, it just happens because they feel under attack.

"Junior", someone I know, has one of the worst cases of Schizophrenia recorded to date. He could be violent.

Because he saw dead people punching him - he felt every blow.

The important thing to remember is that at the core of him the same person is there and he is SCARED by his own behaviour.

Play it safe with the kids, but make sure to outline why to him and make sure he knows that you all trust him.



Rich::

 

[ginna74]

I am bipolar (manic depressive) and have a lot of anxiety problems. I am on several different meds including an anti-psychotic. I am not a threat to my family. although when I was not medicated right I was a big threat to myself. I do not have violent stages only highs and severe lows (more lows then highs actually, it is a diff form of bipolar). My kids knnow I am sick and that I need medication. I think it in reality helps them in a way that they won't and haven't been prejiduce of people who are different.


I had a time though when I went into a dis assosiative (sp?) state and did something bad and got caught, wasn't taking meds right. Turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me and I am to this day getting more help with my problems then I was at the VA center. So yes I did something bad and needed to be on my meds more but it taught me so much. I thought I would be fine off them and realized I can never in my life be without them. Does that mean I am bad? No, it just means that I always have to be on meds to make me the sane person I am now lol.

There are so many out there that won't go on meds and they end up on the street and being violent. I truelly pra for them. I think it is the "normal" people who are violent and horable that you have to worry about. Like the ones that can kill and act like nothing happened.


Anyways you know your BIL tends to be violent and might not be on his meds (if he were he would NOT be acting like that). Tell MIL that you want to go there and only spend time with them because you are worried for your family. They might not like it but they know him and what he has and they may be in denile. I hope he finally gets the help he needs though because it doesn't sound like he is. Realize again that he has a disease and UNDERSTAND that he isn't a bad person, just has a bad disease. You said he is resentful and probably is. Who wants to kill themselves every two seconds? Who wants to feel like everyone hates them? Who (this is all me too) wants to believe THAT IF THEY STOP TAKING THEIR(MINE) MEDS THAT THEY WILL PROBABLY BE DEAD VERY SOON? With me I didn't take all of my meds right and ended up doing something very stupid and paid the price. After taking them right I was soooooo embarassed!!!!!!!!!!!! This will stay with me forever and ever. I wasn't in my right mind at all. My consequences were that I stay on my meds and see my doc regularly. I am doing much more because I don't want to be like that again.

ok sorry for ranting in your thread. I mainly wanted to say that my kids are good kids and we are a good family. I have an illness that is a horrible one, but with meds and councilling I am just as normal as you. Check into him being medicated right? And realized to again that he has an illness that he can't control on his own. If he is violent then by all means keep the kids away. But realize this will change once medicated right and don't hold it against him then.

 

[chrissyk]

After my mentally-ill SIL raged in our home during a visit, my DH stopped having any sort of contact with her. My MIL couldn't accept that, so DH no longer has contact with his parents either. DH does not want SIL around any children we have. Unfortunately, MIL's refusal to accept DH's decision about contact w/SIL means that my in-laws will not have contact with our children either. This saddens me deeply, but it is MIL's choice to continue to attempt to push SIL on my DH.

DH and I both believe that the safety of any children we will have comes before anyone's feelings, in-laws included. My SIL has exhibited dangerous behavior, as has your BIL. Safety first, period. Your children do not need to be exposed to that. If this were a benevolent kind of mentally-ill, that would be 1 thing. Unfortunately, this is a case of a person who is bragging about shooting guns, has shot a gun into a ceiling, etc. What is to stop him from becoming paranoid about you, your DH, or your child and shooting one of you instead of the ceiling next time? Unless you are going to pat him down every time he is around you, I'd say staying away is the only safe choice.

 

[Microcell]

My father has been diagnosed with Chronic Depression and he has gotten stranger and stranger over the years. His mother had Schitzophrenia and I wonder if maybe he has it too. He and I have a very bad relationship and I just see a look in his eyes that really just frightens me. He used to physically abuse my sister but not me, as he was addicted to my mother, who would not let him lay a hand on us once she realized she had the power to stop him. He has snapped at my children, and the last time I saw him, he seemed distant. I decided to distance myself from him for that feeling I get in my gut and many other reasons. He personally contributes no benefit to my kids, so I stay away.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

MIL is a paranoid schizophrenic. We have gone through many stages of her illness. Unmedicated & meds that just kinda helped. She is on Zyprexa. All hail to the Zyprexa. She is the best she has ever been.

Now as far as your BIL...Your dh is under the impression that he is "not that bad", right?
For some reason family members have a hard time with "seeing" the mental illness. I been around the block with that one.
I think they don't want to "see it" because then they have to accept the truth of it and then act accordingly.
For example... they would have to see the truth that they are being held "hostage" by him if they are unable to visit you without him having a panic attack.
Also they would have to accept that his meds are not working and they need to get him to meds that will work.
The kicker is schizophrenics are notorious for NOT taking their meds, so you are not sure if it isn't working properly or he is not taking it.

I can't tell you what to do but I would not have my kids around a psychotic person. I will say I have done it in the past but we stood up to MIL and told her we would cut off the grandkids and she agreed to take her meds.

Again the zyprexa she is on now (started it recently) is the best she has been in the 20+years I have known her. Here is the link.

http://www.zyprexa.com/index.jsp

 

[Disney Doll]

I wouldn't expose my children to an unsafe situaton.

I wouldn't stop DH form going there, but my children would not be present when BIL was around.

I have nothing against folks with mental illness, it is an illness just like a physical one. But, he has the tendency towrad violence, whether your DH and In-laws wants to admit it or not, and my children would not be in that situation.

 

[cgcw]

I would never put my kids or my family in a situation where there was any potential of harm either physically or mentally. I have lived through what can happen when someone with mental illness is off balance.

My brother, who I would have sworn never would have hurt anyone, tried to smother my mom while she slept. His reasoning was because she was going to have a heart attack two days later and he wanted to save her from going through the pain of that. My brother was brought up on charges of attempted murder and elderly abuse and is currently living in a state facility sentenced to 30 years for the "crime" he committed.

The mind works in mysterious ways. In my brothers case, he didn't succeed in his attempt on my mom's life. However, two days later, the same day my brother thought that my Mom was going to die of a heart attack, a different brother died -- of the predicted heart attack. So, my brother who is mentally ill had the right scenario of events -- just the wrong vision of who it was going to die.

As someone else said, those closest to the situation usually have the hardest time accepting the reality of the disease. I hope everything works out for the best. Maybe if your DH is insistant on going, you could stay at a hotel in the area and shelter your kids from any problems which arise. If it were me, I'd make it perfectly clear that any altercations of any sort would send me & the kids back to the hotel in an instant.

 

[phillybeth]

Now as far as your BIL...Your dh is under the impression that he is "not that bad", right?
For some reason family members have a hard time with "seeing" the mental illness.

Because in most cases the family has been 'seeing' the illness for years. It's hard to see the gradual downward slope until you either step back or someone else points it out to you. 99% of mentally ill people do not wake up one morning sick- it is a gradual change in behavior, relationships, etc.
If a room is already dark how much darker does it get when you close your eyes? Subtle changes are hard to see and easy to rationalize.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

No that is not it. I wish it was. They do not want to accept that the person is sick.

 

[phillybeth]

No that is not it. I wish it was. They do not want to accept that the person is sick.

BECAUSE the change from 'well' to 'sick' is gradual! I have seen it in my own family. For us it is normal- it is hard to see the little changes, the gradual worsening, the little quirks that evolve into major problems over months or years. Let an outsider in and they see our normal as "Whoa, this is really messed up, why don't they do something?"

 

[OceanAnnie]

I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't have my kids in the BIL's company.

Firstly, I think you and your DH should be on the same page as far as a plan for the future. I hope he can understand your concerns and work as a team to ensure your family's safety (& addressing your fears adequately) and maintain a relationship with his family. (There are some compromises I would consider. Staying at a hotel. Seeing the inlaws at the hotel or another site.)

Once you are on the same page, then share your plan with the inlaws. Share it as a done deal.

Does the BIL go to an adult "daycare"? That would probably help him and his parents. (And you could work in your visits a little easier.)

Such a hard situation all around. Good luck. Hope you and DH (and inlaws) can reach a common ground.