Membership benefits and extras acknowledgement document for new direct purchases

[mitchnola]

Ideally I would like for my wife and I, and anyone in a similar situation, to be allowed to purchase annual passes.

The other argument I plan to use is that they are allowing some blue card members to have a benefit and not others. I can't find anywhere in my purchase agreement or Member Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement that says DVC can pick and choose which blue card members get to receive a benefit and which do not. I also understand that DVC is just following the direction of the Disney Ticketing Department as it pertains to this restriction. I would just like Member Services managers or supervisors go to bat for DVC members instead of just saying there is nothing they can do.

Additionally, I have been reading that people have be able to "renew" their annual passes more then 30 days past after their expiration date. I was of the understanding that once your annual pass expires you have 30 days to renew it. If they are allowing anyone, not just DVC members, to renew annual passes more then 30 days past the expiration date then I believe that could be considered a new annual pass. So, the "we're not selling new annual passes unless you fall into one of our two specific categories" argument kind of goes out of the window in my opinion.

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Hello Everyone,

My wife and I are new DVC members, December 2020, however have been researching for the last few years.

I signed all my purchase paperwork on my direct contract in December of 2020. After reading this thread and reviewing my contract, specifically page 2 of the Member Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement I noticed something interesting. On the very top of page 2 its states, "A description of benefits in the Program available to Purchase is as follows:" Then it goes on to state all the member extras available for purchase including annual passes.

So here is my argument, to my understanding Disney stopped selling annual passes in July of 2020. DVC also revised their Member Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement on October 19, 2020, three months after Disney stopped selling annual passes. I signed my contract on December 24, 2020, so my contract states that annual passes are a benefit that is currently available for purchase, however they will not allow me to purchase them. I know benefits can change at any time and if DVC struck the annual pass benefit out of my contract I would have no problem not being able to purchase annual passes, however they did not. I have spoken with member services twice now and have made no progress. I am currently awaiting a call back from a second supervisor.

Am I crazy or does this sound like a breach of contract? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Mitch

We bought a direct contract just a month before you and my acknowledgement (contract) has the exact same language. It has been one of my central arguments to DVC management - that I pointed out in writing - in this fight.

The problem is DVC management is powerless to affect a remedy for its members. They (DVC management) know the language is there, but I am not sure that ticketing management is aware of the language in the standard direct sale DVC contract. Or, they are aware of the language, but are gambling DVC members won't seek legal remedy because of the expense involved. But there is no doubt the language in the contract is likely of sufficient legal standing for DVC members to have their day in court (or in mediation). Yes, the outcome would be unknown, but at the case could be argued.

I have had another conversation with my DVC management contact. Heads up: he appears to be monitoring at least some of the conversations on this board regarding the AP fight. Anyway, so far it's still a 'no' from ticketing - but he says he's not giving up and hopes to have another update in 2 to 3 weeks. But I have to give him props: he is trying.

I am considering drafting a letter to ticketing management with the appropriate enclosures (i.e., our contract) to try to stimulate further 'discussion'. Hoping to still keep it friendly and not involve legal counsel.

This has become a bigger issue for me. The dividing line for access to perks used to be Blue Card membership; which is why so many of us spent the extra $$$ to get the darn Blue Card. Now it appears that Disney can draw that line wherever they want - even with a signed contract.

We are being bullied and I don't like bullies.

 

[AmishGuy91]

The problem is DVC management is powerless to affect a remedy for its members. They (DVC management) know the language is there, but I am not sure that ticketing management is aware of the language in the standard direct sale DVC contract. Or, they are aware of the language, but are gambling DVC members won't seek legal remedy because of the expense involved. But there is no doubt the language in the contract is likely of sufficient legal standing for DVC members to have their day in court (or in mediation). Yes, the outcome would be unknown, but at the case could be argued.

There has to be a level of management that is over both DVC and ticketing (hopefully a level or two below Chapek). That's who this issue needs to be raised to.

 

[Leight19]

I think the ones who have best case are those who bought DVC after annual pass sales were suspended but still received contracts stating the annual passes were a perk. The clause that allows them to suspend benefits cannot cover them selling with listed benefit that do not exist. To me that is clear misrepresentation and could be grounds to contact government oversight bodies if DVC will not correct.

 

[Brian Noble]

Ideally I would like for my wife and I, and anyone in a similar situation, to be allowed to purchase annual passes.

I very much doubt a legal argument will (a) compel TWDC to sell you passes or (b) will even be resolved before the AP program resumes of its own accord. I get that people are frustrated, but you aren't likely to pin down a company whose lawyers were able to get their very own privately-owned government.

 

[mitchnola]

We bought a direct contract just a month before you and my acknowledgement (contract) has the exact same language. It has been one of my central arguments to DVC management - that I pointed out in writing - in this fight.

The problem is DVC management is powerless to affect a remedy for its members. They (DVC management) know the language is there, but I am not sure that ticketing management is aware of the language in the standard direct sale DVC contract. Or, they are aware of the language, but are gambling DVC members won't seek legal remedy because of the expense involved. But there is no doubt the language in the contract is likely of sufficient legal standing for DVC members to have their day in court (or in mediation). Yes, the outcome would be unknown, but at the case could be argued.

I have had another conversation with my DVC management contact. Heads up: he appears to be monitoring at least some of the conversations on this board regarding the AP fight. Anyway, so far it's still a 'no' from ticketing - but he says he's not giving up and hopes to have another update in 2 to 3 weeks. But I have to give him props: he is trying.

I am considering drafting a letter to ticketing management with the appropriate enclosures (i.e., our contract) to try to stimulate further 'discussion'. Hoping to still keep it friendly and not involve legal counsel.

This has become a bigger issue for me. The dividing line for access to perks used to be Blue Card membership; which is why so many of us spent the extra $$$ to get the darn Blue Card. Now it appears that Disney can draw that line wherever they want - even with a signed contract.

We are being bullied and I don't like bullies.

I agree completely! Please let me know if you plan on writing a letter to the ticketing department, I would like to do the same.

 

[mitchnola]

I think the ones who have best case are those who bought DVC after annual pass sales were suspended but still received contracts stating the annual passes were a perk. The clause that allows them to suspend benefits cannot cover them selling with listed benefit that do not exist. To me that is clear misrepresentation and could be grounds to contact government oversight bodies if DVC will not correct.

Exactly, If DVC would have put language in my contract stating that annual pass sales are temporally suspended then I would not have a problem, but that is not the case.

I contacted the Florida Attorney Generals Office this morning. The person I spoke with said it seemed as if DVC is not holding up their end of the contract and encouraged me to file a complaint and they would take it from there. I told them I would prefer not to go that route and would rather find a reasonable solution to the problem. We'll see what happens when a supervisor contacts me sometime within the next week or so.

 

[mitchnola]

I very much doubt a legal argument will (a) compel TWDC to sell you passes or (b) will even be resolved before the AP program resumes of its own accord. I get that people are frustrated, but you aren't likely to pin down a company whose lawyers were able to get their very own privately-owned government.

You're probably right, but I believe in either 2019 or 2020 many DVC members challenged the point charts that created a premium for two bedroom lock-off rooms and DVC reversed that decision. While it is unlikely that Disney or DVC management will change their annual pass policy that is currently in effect it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Exactly, If DVC would have put language in my contract stating that annual pass sales are temporally suspended then I would not have a problem, but that is not the case.

I contacted the Florida Attorney Generals Office this morning. The person I spoke with said it seemed as if DVC is not holding up their end of the contract and encouraged me to file a complaint and they would take it from there. I told them I would prefer not to go that route and would rather find a reasonable solution to the problem. We'll see what happens when a supervisor contacts me sometime within the next week or so.

Please let me know where this goes. I'd be happy to join in with this complaint - but I agree, I'd much prefer a 'friendly' solution as we'd like to be DVC members for a long time.

I think very few on this board realize where this thing could go - and not to a 'happy' place. If Disney can do this, they can completely reimagine the AP program for ALL members (contract or no). When I mentioned to my DVC contact that many DVC members were concerned about the 'long term health' of the WDW AP program - given the decision to kill the AP program at DL - while he felt that DL and WDW were logistically different, he certainly couldn't confirm that the WDW AP program would be returning as it was before. I think his general feeling was we'd have a lot more clarity by (say) the May timeframe, but what that 'clarity' was he couldn't say.

And logistically speaking, it will be more difficult to run the WDW AP program with a different set of rules than the reimagined DL AP program. And while they could, they've been using the pandemic to reduce headaches - not add to them.

I suspect the tone on this board will turn a bit more dark if they end up yanking everyone's AP's.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I very much doubt a legal argument will (a) compel TWDC to sell you passes or (b) will even be resolved before the AP program resumes of its own accord. I get that people are frustrated, but you aren't likely to pin down a company whose lawyers were able to get their very own privately-owned government.

Those lawyers are long gone. The lawyers they have now are less impressive, frankly. And sloppy.

 

[mickeydotcom]

I've been following this thread and am very interested in helping bring attention to this issue. We purchased direct at the end of February 2020. One of the main drivers to purchasing direct vs. resale was the AP benefit. I understand this is an act of nature and Disney has no control over that, however, they do have control over how they address their practices during.

 

[eandt]

With this line of thinking... why should anyone buy direct?? Literally that is the one big reason why you should buy direct.

We are in that boat. Not owners yet but ready to buy RIGHT NOW. Not even sure if we would use the AP discount more than every other year or maybe less but its the thought of losing the only real direct purchase benefit of any value that will keep us from spending our money on DVC direct for sure and most likely we won't buy in at all since it seems to me the resale process is a pain in the rearend at least for us as first time buyers. If we are going to do this we want the process short and sweet. I get that the benefits can come/go or be eliminated forever but it is still the sticking point for us pulling the trigger on joining.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Apparently I’m incorrect, but I was under the following assumptions:

1) This has zero to do with blue cards. There are no AP’s to be had, whether it’s gold, platinum, silver, Epcot after 4, etc... (unless you are in a qualifying group, which is not defined by blue card or be DVC in general).

2) Membership Extra acknowledgement is not part of the contract.

3) Membership Extras can be terminated at any time.

All that said, I completely disagree with the way Disney is handling the AP situation. It really doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Red Dog Run]

I received a phone call today from DVC member services. It only took a few days from my email to the phone call. The person I spoke to stated that he understands our frustration, but it is ticketing that makes the decision. I asked why did my DVC contract mention perks that DVC has no control over? It would be like me selling you a parking spot at my home but another member of my family will decide if you can park walk on my land for a flat fee or you have to buy a ticket to get down on my land. If you complain to me that you are being charged tickets each time you get down, I will reply: Sorry. That's not my department. I just sell the spaces and tack on possible promises that others control. I asked to be transferred to someone that deciphers that contract AND can explain what relationship and responsibility DVC has in mentioning perks that they have NO control over?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I received a phone call today from DVC member services. It only took a few days from my email to the phone call. The person I spoke to stated that he understands our frustration, but it is ticketing that makes the decision. I asked why did my DVC contract mention perks that DVC has no control over? It would be like me selling you a parking spot at my home but another member of my family will decide if you can park walk on my land for a flat fee or you have to buy a ticket to get down on my land. If you complain to me that you are being charged tickets each time you get down, I will reply: Sorry. That's not my department. I just sell the spaces and tack on possible promises that others control. I asked to be transferred to someone that deciphers that contract AND can explain what relationship and responsibility DVC has in mentioning perks that they have NO control over?

Where in the CONTRACT does it guarantee passes?
Genuinely curious, as I’ve owned 21 direct contracts and must have missed it.

 

[Sandisw]

I received a phone call today from DVC member services. It only took a few days from my email to the phone call. The person I spoke to stated that he understands our frustration, but it is ticketing that makes the decision. I asked why did my DVC contract mention perks that DVC has no control over? It would be like me selling you a parking spot at my home but another member of my family will decide if you can park walk on my land for a flat fee or you have to buy a ticket to get down on my land. If you complain to me that you are being charged tickets each time you get down, I will reply: Sorry. That's not my department. I just sell the spaces and tack on possible promises that others control. I asked to be transferred to someone that deciphers that contract AND can explain what relationship and responsibility DVC has in mentioning perks that they have NO control over?

But other than Moonlight Magic, every special benefit under Membership Magic is offered in conjunction between DVD and third parties.

I know other don’t agree, but it seems pretty clear, at least to me, that these are special deals are made on our behalf with others to enhance our ownership. The document spells it out that third parties are involved

It does even indicate the APs are available through a specific division. Again, frustrating but DVD..not DVC.. has simply worked discounts for us which is why they are considered incidental benefits.

 

[Sandisw]

Where in the CONTRACT does it guarantee passes?
Genuinely curious, as I’ve owned 21 direct contracts and must have missed it.

It doesn’t.

 

[New Mouse]

But other than Moonlight Magic, every special benefit under Membership Magic is offered in conjunction between DVD and third parties.

I know other don’t agree, but it seems pretty clear, at least to me, that these are special deals are made on our behalf with others to enhance our ownership. The document spells it out that third parties are involved

It does even indicate the APs are available through a specific division. Again, frustrating but DVD..not DVC.. has simply worked discounts for us which is why they are considered incidental benefits.

In some form I believe DVD actually pays for the perk of ap discounts. Id be hard pressed to think that this agreement could just be stopped overnight without warning to DVD... at the end of the day though DVD is obviously too attached to Disney where they wouldnt fight for this even if Disney were wrong. Id also be shocked if Disney were returning those funds to DVD.

 

[Sandisw]

In some form I believe DVD actually pays for the perk of ap discounts. Id be hard pressed to think that this agreement could just be stopped overnight without warning to DVD... at the end of the day though DVD is obviously too attached to Disney where they wouldnt fight for this even if Disney were wrong. Id also be shocked if Disney were returning those funds to DVD.

That is not how it was explained to me. DVD enters into contracts with others to offer a discount to members,

So, the division agrees to offer the pass to blue card DVC holders for X price. It’s done similar to the FL discount, The ticketing division has decided to offer a certain price to those residents. No one pays for that pricing structure,

Restaurants and merchandise do the same. They agree to offer a discount. Those savings are not passed on to anyone else to cover.

 

[New Mouse]

That is not how it was explained to me. DVD enters into contracts with others to offer a discount to members,

So, the division agrees to offer the pass to blue card DVC holders for X price. It’s done similar to the FL discount, The ticketing division has decided to offer a certain price to those residents. No one pays for that pricing structure,

Restaurants and merchandise do the same. They agree to offer a discount. Those savings are not passed on to anyone else to cover.

I believe this is incorrect as there has to be an incentive beyond just because to offer those products. It is all internal accounting as its money going from one budget to another but it does exist.