Membership benefits and extras acknowledgement document for new direct purchases

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
I can’t really see capacity issues at the parks by incorporating something new like that.
I brought this up before but I think part of the restriction is based on there not needing to be a finger scan. This could allow someone to buy an AP, use it for a week on vacation, then sell or give the magic band to someone else.

I could be wrong but after being in the parks it what came to mind.

Would be nice if they made an exception for DVC owners though.
 

supersnoop

What time is the three o'clock parade?
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
I didn’t buy with the benefits/extras being a component. It’s nice, don’t get me wrong. I did send to emails asking DVD to see if the can give an olive branch. The way I see it is that passes can be sold or renewed under certain circumstances right now. If these benefits are out of control by DVD, they should be able to work with ticketing to offer similar approved circumstances for DVC. I also asked about creating a DVC pass for members completely separate from the annual pass. I can’t really see capacity issues at the parks by incorporating something new like that.
I think that language refers to the "program" which is "Membership Extras," but you're complaining about a component of that program. So, they haven't discontinued the program, but they have changed the contents of the program. If you scream loud enough, they'll probably do something to pacify you, but I don't think you've got a legal basis in your complaint.
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
I think that language refers to the "program" which is "Membership Extras," but you're complaining about a component of that program. So, they haven't discontinued the program, but they have changed the contents of the program. If you scream loud enough, they'll probably do something to pacify you, but I don't think you've got a legal basis in your complaint.
Not complaining, I’m trying to understand the vagueness of the language. It’s contradictory and leading in some ways that make you wonder why you have to provide language for something you never paid for to begin with.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Parks are open, DVC can book rooms, passes are being renewed and sold. That paragraph you posted is part of the document. The last two paragraphs is the point that I’m making.
Passes are not being sold to anyone other than those that had them prior to the closure and DVC has no say in who is qualified to get them,

My only point is that the document is pretty clear that at anytime, those benefits can be eliminated and I interpret the 3 years or less meaning that they can not take away your blue card within that time frame.

For example, if you bought in 2019 with a minimum of 100 points, they can’t tell you in 2020 that you now need the 125. However, after 3 years, they could change the rules to be eligible for what ever is part of the program.

But, that doesn’t mean you have to be given whatever perks were in effect when you bought, Right now, the blue card still gives you food and merchandise discounts, and the Direct points can still be used for Disney collection ,etc....although limited.
 
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PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Passes are not being sold to anyone other than those that had them prior to the closure and DVC has no say in who is qualified to get them,

My only point is that the document is pretty clear that at anytime, those benefits can be eliminated and I interpret the 3 years or less meaning that they can not take away your blue card within that time frame.

For example, if you bought in 2019 with a minimum of 100 points, they can’t tell you in 2020 that you now need the 125. However, after 3 years, they could change the rules to be eligible for what ever is part of the program.

But, that doesn’t mean you have to be given whatever perks were in effect when you bought, Right now, the blue card still gives you food and merchandise discounts, and the Direct points can still be used for Disney collection ,etc....although limited.
I get it, I know tickets are a completely separate entity as well, but a Disney vacation isn’t a Disney vacation without the parks. It would make more since to rethink vacation club to include a pass for the club. I’d pay for that.
 

Grumpy Mouse

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
I get it, I know tickets are a completely separate entity as well, but a Disney vacation isn’t a Disney vacation without the parks. It would make more since to rethink vacation club to include a pass for the club. I’d pay for that.
We just closed recently and my contract has exactly the same language as yours. The preceding paragraphs about benefits - "extras" - being able to be terminated at any time seems to supersede the listed benefits.

I too sent an e-mail last week about the need for clarity on AP's for DVC Blue Card members - but they've been letting me eat silence. If I hear anything I'll post it here - and if you do I'd appreciate hearing the same. I also told them to get off their arrogant horse and fix their call in system; no member deserves to wait 60-90 minutes just to speak with someone (as if I've got nothing better to do during the day). A simple callback system (if they can't afford a nice one) would be a win-win for all involved.

I don't think there's any coordinated plan to keep us from potentially exercising these benefits - I just think they don't know what the heck they're doing. For stuff like this, you'd be surprised how far up the food chain it has to go.
 

New Mouse

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
They rely so heavily on advertising things to sell their product at times that there is a good (not strong) chance they could lose in court. People like to quote the contract all the time, but at the end of the day the contract is never the only thing that matters in situations like these. The sales team cannot heavily promote and imply something is part of the reason to buy, only to put language in the contract that it is not guaranteed.

Its very hard to prove, but with x number of complaints on a similar topic it becomes more clear that they are selling the benefits, not just the product.
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
They rely so heavily on advertising things to sell their product at times that there is a good (not strong) chance they could lose in court. People like to quote the contract all the time, but at the end of the day the contract is never the only thing that matters in situations like these. The sales team cannot heavily promote and imply something is part of the reason to buy, only to put language in the contract that it is not guaranteed.

Its very hard to prove, but with x number of complaints on a similar topic it becomes more clear that they are selling the benefits, not just the product.
They are two separate documents. One is your real estate sale for points, the other acknowledgment statement. To the point, why have a document.
 

bookwormde

<font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
They rely so heavily on advertising things to sell their product at times that there is a good (not strong) chance they could lose in court. People like to quote the contract all the time, but at the end of the day the contract is never the only thing that matters in situations like these. The sales team cannot heavily promote and imply something is part of the reason to buy, only to put language in the contract that it is not guaranteed.
Yes there are 2 areas of law that are at work here

One is contract law, the second is "fair practice" laws and regulation which are a part of timeshare law as well as non specific consumer protections laws
 

Grumpy Mouse

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
After pouring over our contract documents some more, I have decided I'm going to try to press this issue with Disney/DVD. While the document clearly says they have the right to terminate the extra/benefit at any time, there is no language in the document that allows them to discriminate the availability of an extra/benefit based on the "type" of member you are - i.e., one with an existing or past AP vs. one without.

In other words, as long as the program is still in existence, the contract doesn't appear to give them the right to sell an AP to one member but not sell to another.

Is there a way I can contact this Terry Schultz person directly? Talking to MS is like talking to a brick wall.
 

bookwormde

<font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
I always started with an email to member administration and member satisfaction, explaining the issue, prior attempts to resolve the issue and asking that is be elevated to the compliance team

dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

It usually took a few days. They like to call rather than email for obvious reason, so initially I never supplied my phone number. Once had a paper trail I would then offer my phone number once it was elevated appropriately, though I always asked that the outcome be provided in an email.

It has been at least 8 years since the last time I dug deep on an issue so others may may have more recent experiences
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
After pouring over our contract documents some more, I have decided I'm going to try to press this issue with Disney/DVD. While the document clearly says they have the right to terminate the extra/benefit at any time, there is no language in the document that allows them to discriminate the availability of an extra/benefit based on the "type" of member you are - i.e., one with an existing or past AP vs. one without.

In other words, as long as the program is still in existence, the contract doesn't appear to give them the right to sell an AP to one member but not sell to another.

Is there a way I can contact this Terry Schultz person directly? Talking to MS is like talking to a brick wall.
The bad thing about this is that ticket sales is a completely different entity. Ticketing is not selling new AP’ s but are renewing and selling under certain circumstances. My point was that they(ticketing) are still selling. For example, a family canceled during the epidemic. They call in leave their names and number, get a call back, and buy new tickets. Let’s say they had a 2 yr old that turned 3 during that time frame. They sell a new ticket that had not been issued before.....those people get the olive branch. My point is since it is a benefits that’s available for members to to purchase at a discounted rate, DVD needs to go to bat for us to extend that same olive branch.
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
The bad thing about this is that ticket sales is a completely different entity. Ticketing is not selling new AP’ s but are renewing and selling under certain circumstances. My point was that they(ticketing) are still selling. For example, a family canceled during the epidemic. They call in leave their names and number, get a call back, and buy new tickets. Let’s say they had a 2 yr old that turned 3 during that time frame. They sell a new ticket that had not been issued before.....those people get the olive branch. My point is since it is a benefits that’s available for members to to purchase at a discounted rate, DVD needs to go to bat for us to extend that same olive branch.
Typing on a phone, sorry for errors
 

Grumpy Mouse

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
I always started with an email to member administration and member satisfaction, explaining the issue, prior attempts to resolve the issue and asking that is be elevated to the compliance team

dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

It usually took a few days. They like to call rather than email for obvious reason, so initially I never supplied my phone number. Once had a paper trail I would then offer my phone number once it was elevated appropriately, though I always asked that the outcome be provided in an email.

It has been at least 8 years since the last time I dug deep on an issue so others may may have more recent experiences
Thanks - I have sent an e-mail and started the ball rolling.

We'll see what they do; in my mind they have applied a benefit in a non-uniform, discriminatory way. The contract is clear on their right to control when and whether a benefit will be offered to ALL (Blue Card) members, but there is nothing that gives them the right to control which members may receive a given benefit - other than the explicitly stated 'Blue Card' requirement.

If you're a Blue Card member - either all receive the benefit - or none.
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Thanks - I have sent an e-mail and started the ball rolling.

We'll see what they do; in my mind they have applied a benefit in a non-uniform, discriminatory way. The contract is clear on their right to control when and whether a benefit will be offered to ALL (Blue Card) members, but there is nothing that gives them the right to control which members may receive a given benefit - other than the explicitly stated 'Blue Card' requirement.

If you're a Blue Card member - either all receive the benefit - or none.
Keep in mind, benefits and extras is a statement, not a contract.
 

Grumpy Mouse

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Keep in mind, benefits and extras is a statement, not a contract.
When it's part of my contract, I'd say that's questionable. The truth is Disney pulls this crap because they don't they'll be challenged in court.

And either way, applying a benefit to one group while excluding another is discrimination. I wonder if that's how Disney sleeps at night: yeah, we 'stated' it - but hey - we're not contractually bound to it?
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
When it's part of my contract, I'd say that's questionable. The truth is Disney pulls this crap because they don't they'll be challenged in court.

And either way, applying a benefit to one group while excluding another is discrimination. I wonder if that's how Disney sleeps at night: yeah, we 'stated' it - but hey - we're not contractually bound to it?
In my original post, I said what am I missing. I agree that something should be offered.
 

PurdueTodd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
We just closed recently and my contract has exactly the same language as yours. The preceding paragraphs about benefits - "extras" - being able to be terminated at any time seems to supersede the listed benefits.

I too sent an e-mail last week about the need for clarity on AP's for DVC Blue Card members - but they've been letting me eat silence. If I hear anything I'll post it here - and if you do I'd appreciate hearing the same. I also told them to get off their arrogant horse and fix their call in system; no member deserves to wait 60-90 minutes just to speak with someone (as if I've got nothing better to do during the day). A simple callback system (if they can't afford a nice one) would be a win-win for all involved.

I don't think there's any coordinated plan to keep us from potentially exercising these benefits - I just think they don't know what the heck they're doing. For stuff like this, you'd be surprised how far up the food chain it has to go.
I got my passes today.
 

Grumpy Mouse

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jun 18, 2020

My dispute went to the contract compliance team on the 8th - they told I'd hear something in three days. I've yet to hear anything. Did you have to make another follow up phone call?
 

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