MDE/FP+ Poll Results

[MrInfinity]

FP+ is just another way to create a different breed of super-user.

Oh, I'll agree with you there. It's a new breed of super user, but not quite as super as before. The new system will most benefit people who are inherently planners, which really is most of those out here on the Dis.

The family I described in the earlier post probably didn't benefit from FP-, and they certainly aren't benefiting from FP+.

Well, more people are using FP+ than did FP-. Like I said. It's a new breed of super user, but it is definitely easier to get some of that superness just by picking 3 rides via FP+.

But the critical difference is, if they have an in-the-park epiphany about using either system, they could actually derive some benefit from FP-, but very little if any from FP+.

Fair enough, I won't contest this too much, tho I think it's a pretty small group that shows up and has this epiphany that wouldn't have had 60 days worth alerts and nudging from Disney to pick some rides already.

And if you truly do show up with nothing, so be it. We loved users who did this under FP-, and we should continue to love the guests who will want to learn absolutely nothing now, cuz it's more Fast Passes for us.

But because FP+ is so widespread and every guest in the Disney target demographic of young families with kids 3-9 has phones and uses facebook, this "not in the know" crowd is pretty small in comparison... I mean it's really diminishing. MOST people can figure out the Disney app. Almost everyone I know uses facebook on their phone, and can manipulate photos, play games, tag people, etc. They can (and are) figuring out how to pick some rides.

I think we're actually kind of... agreeing on some things here.

 

[JimmyV]

Well, more people are using FP+ than did FP-.

Unclear where "using" and "benefiting" intersect. I'm not being snarky. It really is an unknown. You know.....the old "wait 10 minutes in the kiosk line to get a FP+ for Living With The Land at a time that kicks off in 15 minutes" (total "wait time" = 25 minutes) when they could have just walked over and waited in the 20 minute SB line. It is happening.

...I think it's a pretty small group that shows up and has this epiphany that wouldn't have had 60 days worth alerts and nudging from Disney to pick some rides already.

That's why I used an off-site family in my example. If you don't have a Disney Resort reservation, I don't know how much nudging you get from WDW. How would they even know you are going? Off-site condo and park passes from Undercover Tourist/AAA = "stealth guest" from WDW's perspective. Over half of all guests come from off site, so this is probably not a small number.

But because FP+ is so widespread and every guest in the Disney target demographic of young families with kids 3-9 has phones and uses facebook, this "not in the know" crowd is pretty small in comparison... I mean it's really diminishing. MOST people can figure out the Disney app. Almost everyone I know uses facebook on their phone, and can manipulate photos, play games, tag people, etc. They can (and are) figuring out how to pick some rides.

You would think so, wouldn't you. But the last family I know of who went as "first timers" are all Type A planners in almost all aspects of life. But they aren't Disney people. They opted to go during the busy Easter Break last year and had absolutely no idea about MDE/MB/FP+/ADRs or any of that. They stayed on site, so I have no idea how all of this managed to escape them, but at my wife's urging, I sat through a boring meeting one morning with my laptop, set up an MDE account for them and got them ADRs for most days. When I asked what sort of rides they would like for their FPs, they said that they would just "wing it". Such an approach cuts against everything I have ever known or witnessed from this family. But that's what they did. I'm not going to say that they would have voted "Hate It". But on the other hand, I can't say that they benefited from FP+. Their choice. Better for you and me. But not exactly the success story that Disney wants to tout.

 

[tweak89]

Haven't experienced FP+ yet, but am thoroughly entertained by the tight loyalty each "side" has towards their opinion.

I also love PC VS. Mac debates!

If you want real fun drop into any auto forum and read a "dino vs. synthetic oil" thread or any motorcycle forum for a fun "how can I get more horsepower thread". They make these FP+ threads look absolutely civilized!!

 

[Shaden]

Jimmy, you're exactly right, and you counter Shaden's post above. Yes. Only 2% or 5% (you pick) came with a plan and as a result got much use out of FP-. Now, everyone with a phone or a computer and who knows enough to post on facebook is picking 3 fast passes. What is the number 50%? I don't know... it was quoted in that report from Rasulo. But so many more ppl are using FP+.

You are describing the guest who did not use FP-. They just showed up w no idea, and went on rides. See a ride? Get in line. This is how most people tour. Only those who learned what FP- was optimally used it, which is why we (you, I, others) could pull massive amounts of tickets. I would get back to the hotel with my pockets full of them!

Now, all those regular old guests w no knowledge but their phone are queuing up a 1st ride before we can get a 2nd. Thus by the time we want a 3rd, they're all gone.

For the record, I showed up with no plan on our first trip, and no knowledge of FP ... and we FP'd the hell out of rides. This was during Presidents day weekend/week. It was awesome. But, on to your point ....

ok, so I had read that 1 in 2 people were using FP- .... your magic quote referred to magic bands, not FP+ .... it could be more or less. But that doesn't really change the impact you are stating, the impact is that for those who used to use FP they are going to have a diminished availability for rides and those who didn't use FP- now have an increased availability.

So why the hell are you constantly defending FP+ as if it gives a great opportunity to people who take advantage of it who also used to use FP- ??? I mean seriously, you are constantly in threads talking up about FP+ is great, because you can do so much with it, but here you are implicitly admitting that people in the know (like people on these boards) are facing increased competition, and will have less available to them.

One of your other favourite lines is that people just aren't using FP+ effectively, but again, by the logic you state here, if the people on these boards had just used FP- more effectively they could have gotten MORE done. Correct ? Yea, I thought so.

So for people on these boards, people in the know, FP+ is a net negative ??? Sure they can make the most of it, but, on the whole, they could have done better under FP- if they had taken the fullest advantage of it. Glad we sorted that out. I don't expect you to see you defending FP+ in anymore threads other than to say "While you got less done than you could have under FP-, be glad that other people got a little more done than they would have otherwise" ...

Perfect.

 

[Cormoran]

Our trips to WDW cost at least $7000 when you factor in airfare and lodging. On our last visit in April, FP+ limited our access to rides, unless we were willing to endure long SB lines. We were not FP uber user users. But with FP+ the SB lines on classic and minor attractions have increased.
When I am on vacation the only thing I care about is my family's vacation, no one else's. I don't care that FP+ has allowed more people to go on headliners, vacations are not about fairness to all. Vacations are about being able to experience whatever I choose and not be controlled by ride rationing.

 

[Cormoran]

Well, I think it goes back to what JimmyV originally posted:

"Pete expressed "surprise" over the "big minority" of people who say that they "do not like" the new system".

I also watched the podcast and heard him ask that people "please" post their positive responses.

My understanding is that Pete founded DISboards.com, and then later founded Dreams Unlimited travel. I could certainly understand how it would not be desirable for one to contain negative reviews about a destination the other promotes packages for. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but from a business perspective it makes sense why I would want more people to express positive views and reviews and it's a completely legitimate reason. I'd make the same request to those who "liked" something as opposed to those who "hated" something - please post more!

 

[MrInfinity]

But that doesn't really change the impact you are stating, the impact is that for those who used to use FP they are going to have a diminished availability for rides and those who didn't use FP- now have an increased availability.

Nod.

So why the hell are you constantly defending FP+ as if it gives a great opportunity to people who take advantage of it who also used to use FP- ???

This is a good question, and as you point out, I am one of those in the small subset of guests who used to get the most out of FP-, and I clearly get less now. Why do I defend it so then?

I guess, because of the overall picture.

And because while you do get fewer passes, it does save you time in other ways. We've hashed a lot of this out.

FP- was kind of a... crummy... system. It could be easily monopolized (by the likes of you and I)... and while I can't do that now, it doesn't really detract from my vacation.

And the benefits outweigh any sort of cost.

And I'm a natural planner. I take to it easily, and enjoy it. (and I have often agreed that those who do not like to plan will not love this aspect of the new system) I don't feel bound by it... in fact, for the planner in me, I am somewhat liberated by being able to pull my FPs now instead of having to wonder what I can pull later. When I can queue up an awesome day like a princess day involving... BBB... CRT... A&E... ETWB... that is pretty amazing. All I'm doing is taking the planning I used to do anyways like lock in my days with a BBB or CRT, and then add to that some experiences like A&E / ETWB that there is no way I could magically queue up before. Now I can stage them in hour blocks bam.. bam.. bam. I know I have these rides locked in, and with FP- I would have no idea whatsoever what returns to them would be like.

I can do this all from the comfort of my own home.

I can get my family on all the stuff we want...

Cut out a lot of walking that we used to do...

Cut out a lot of the uncertainty about what we'll get done in a day

Spend more time w my family that used to be spent walking by myself to go plug in 6 cards and get 6 tickets.

And, it just makes sense from a business perspective. I believe in the Disney Co, and while we may mock them for not being a prototype of tomorrow in Epcot any more, when they really do revolutionize a paper-wasting, easily monopolized system with a technological data-gathering, do-from-your-phone app / computer program, people ride them for this too. So what is it... do people want Disney to be on the cutting edge of new, or do you want paper tickets and printers forever.

I want new.

I used to get more paper tickets than I get electronic ones, but I can get the electronic ones faster, more precisely, and use the time saved by that to offset the time I might have to wait standby for a ride.

And in practice, in May, I didn't even find we had to wait standby for much at all. Sb lines longer? Possibly. But if you can get a FP to them then the longer sb line doesn't matter.

I mean seriously, you are constantly in threads talking up about FP+ is great, because you can do so much with it, but here you are implicitly admitting that people in the know (like people on these boards) are facing increased competition, and will have less available to them.

Yes, I have, since the onset, "admitted" that the people in the know, like the people on these boards, will get less as a result of FP+.

But, I am also practical, and as such, complaining about a closed loophole is only so valuable. Tech is here to stay, so it is up to these people out here, you, and me, to figure out the ways to make the new system work.

There are ways to be super with it. So if someone outright complains that they got less done, I'd like to give them ideas on how to get more done. This may be seen as defending FP+, but really it's more just "trying to solve a real first world problem" -- which I can be quite good at -- planning -- and helping others plan. I comment on most "how would you plan this" type of things because I enjoy that!

One of your other favourite lines is that people just aren't using FP+ effectively, but again, by the logic you state here, if the people on these boards had just used FP- more effectively they could have gotten MORE done. Correct ? Yea, I thought so.

Of course! But we all appreciated that most people did NOT use FP- correctly. Now, lots of people who never used FP- correctly, are suddenly able to use FP+ correctly, so if we don't figure out a way to do even better, then we are no longer going to get more than the average guest -- which is what we all want anyways right?. I have learned invaluable ways to use FP+ better just by hanging out on these boards! Priceless info is here to be gained... even for a system that seems unbeatable like FP+.

I will never leave Disney World in surrender, I will find a way to make it work.

So for people on these boards, people in the know, FP+ is a net negative ??? Sure they can make the most of it, but, on the whole, they could have done better under FP-

But FP- is gone. So the choice is to make the most of FP+... or not. I'm in the first group. It is here, it'll stay, it'll grow, it'll change. I'm not gonna stop going to Disney World, and I'm not going to go and frump, so I'm going to figure out how to get this new tool to work well for me...

...which actually when you dig down into, has a LOT of benefits that go way beyond the strict number of fast passes entitled. As a result, I was able to make it work for me to get just as much done as before, despite how much "better" you would assert FP- was.

So if I say something positive about FP+, it's not because I'm downplaying one who liked FP- better. It's because my goal is to use FP+ to get the most I can out of it and make magical moments happen tomorrow. Or in December. That is all. I'm not going to sit out here and complain about how my vacation will suck now. It will be awesome, and FP+ will contribute to that, no matter how much you surmise it could have been better with a more dated system that I could have taken more personal advantage of.

 

[JimmyV]

This is a good question, and as you point out, I am one of those in the small subset of guests who used to get the most out of FP-, and I clearly get less now.


I used to get more paper tickets than I get electronic ones, but I can get the electronic ones faster, more precisely, and use the time saved by that to offset the time I might have to wait standby for a ride.


Yes, I have, since the onset, "admitted" that the people in the know, like the people on these boards, will get less as a result of FP+.



So if I say something positive about FP+, it's not because I'm downplaying one who liked FP- better. It's because my goal is to use FP+ to get the most I can out of it and make magical moments happen tomorrow. Or in December. That is all. I'm not going to sit out here and complain about how my vacation will suck now. It will be awesome, and FP+ will contribute to that, no matter how much you surmise it could have been better with a more dated system that I could have taken more personal advantage of.

Thank you, and bless you, sir! I respect the heck out of the fact that you applaud and endorse the egalitarian nature of FP+, and respect it even more knowing that you fully understand the dynamic of how FP+ alters the strategies of the, for lack of a better word, selfish. And when it comes to the overall utility of a vacation, we can all be accused of being selfish now and again. It is painful reading all of the posts from people who refuse to admit that FP+ can result in a net negative when it comes to total attractions visited. It is absolutely true that the overall enjoyment of the vacation might be a net positive, though, and it is equally painful to read posts from people who refuse to admit that this is the case for many people, depending on their touring strategies. The "FP+ Is Great! It Worked For Us" threads are tough to confront, because of course the system worked. It will always work as long as it isn't broken. But did it get you on to TSMM, ToT and RnR all using the FP line in the same day? No. But most everyone on this Board accomplished that feat many times over in prior years. So what does it mean to "work"? Well, we all have to concede that we don't know what that word means when used by someone other than ourselves. To some, the system doesn't "work" because you are now forced to wait in the SB line for either Soarin' or TT, whereas before you did not have to. For others, the system "works" because they know that they are guaranteed a spot on Soarin' with no wait whatsoever, even if they dilly dally at the 'Ohana character breakfast. But in the end, if the simple question is asked: Does FP+ act as a governor on one's park pacing? The answer, when applied to the most ardent commandos of the past, has to be "yes", and it is refreshing to see that point made by a true FP+ supporter.

 

[Laketravis]

I wonder if this guy voted in Pete's poll?

Why I hate FP+


.

 

[Cormoran]

I wonder if this guy voted in Pete's poll?

Why I hate FP+


.

He made this video at the beginning of roll out and before you could a 4th FP. I wonder if he feels that way now. that video reminds me of how bad FP+ was before it was tweaked.
Since the Podcast poll was so biased in design, should another poll be posted on the boards?
Here's my proposal:
How do you feel about FP+?
A. Like it B. Neutral C. Dislike it

 

[Laketravis]

Since the Podcast poll was so biased in design, should another poll be posted on the boards?
Here's my proposal:
How do you feel about FP+?
A. Like it B. Neutral C. Dislike it

Do it!

 

[wisblue]

Why bother posting more polls that by their nature are totally unscientific and will produce results that anyone can spin however they want?

These polls are as useless as trying to gauge public opinion in a national election by counting the yard signs in your neighborhood.

 

[Cormoran]

Why bother posting more polls that by their nature are totally unscientific and will produce results that anyone can spin however they want?

These polls are as useless as trying to gauge public opinion in a national election by counting the yard signs in your neighborhood.

So what? It's fun isn't it? Will you participate? No ones saying it's scientific and there are always going to be people who dismiss the results for one reason or another. But it's the same as posting on these boards. We all know it's an exercise in futility trying to convince someone you're right and they're wrong. But it's fun to have a debate. By the way, I am right you know. Now, my only question should I post now or wait until the new boards are up and running?

Suggestions?

 

[JimmyV]

Why bother posting more polls that by their nature are totally unscientific and will produce results that anyone can spin however they want.

Agree. No poll on a superfan site like this one can reveal anything in comparison to the tens of millions af annual guests. Here, "I hate Disney and am fed up with the downward spiral it has been on over the past ten years" means: "I am trimming my visits down from 20 days a year to 12".

 

[flicx]

He made this video at the beginning of roll out and before you could a 4th FP. I wonder if he feels that way now. that video reminds me of how bad FP+ was before it was tweaked.
Since the Podcast poll was so biased in design, should another poll be posted on the boards?
Here's my proposal:
How do you feel about FP+?
A. Like it B. Neutral C. Dislike it

Lets get it rolling to see that 90% approval rating Disney brags about!